Sinn Fein contemplating early Christmas present?

Well, don’t hold your breath, but there could be a shift coming:

It wants a firm agreement with the DUP on when political responsibility for justice and policing would be transferred from Westminster to Stormont. If leader Gerry Adams believes he has that issue agreed, it is thought he will call a party Ard Comhairle on Saturday.

Thanks to John for the heads up!

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  • Pete Baker
  • It’s my understanding that the MI5 situtation has been resolved.

    An Ard Comhairle meeting couldn’t be called without that being sorted.

  • Pete Baker

    Do elaborate, Chris.

    After all, the position of the ard chomhairle, and Gerry Kelly reiterated it recently, is that they reject any role for MI5 in Ireland.

  • parcifal

    Its vital that Gerry Gives his supporters ( and dissenters ) the Xmas period to contemplate, what was the unthinkable some years back.
    Hain seems confident that the target date of 2008 for tranfer of policing and justice powers will be met.
    So today is about a form of words that will give SF the leg up it needs to call the Ard Comhairle on Saturday, and get the 2/3 majority needed to go to an Ard Fheis.
    GA will not want his flock to agonise any longer than necessary, as that would be bad leadership.

  • mickhall

    Interesting this one, could this latest spate of de-selecting etc have been used to take those who are opposed to the policing deal, both within SF and out, eyes off the ball.

    Looks like Chris will have to look for a new home? Although there is an important issue here, if people like Chris within SF decide to leave the Party, where are they going to go. As Pat has so joyously been pointing out, the dissidents have failed to build a viable alternative. [although admittedly there are valid reasons for this failure].

    Thus there will be those who oppose Adam’s but decide, like many UK laborites when NL took control, to stay in the party to hopefully fight another day when better seas prevail.

    Whether this is a viable or realistic strategy only time will tell, I doubt it myself, for the Adams clique have copied NL closely and recent events look very much like the beginning of a cleaning of the stables of all oppositional forces. As in the war years Adams strategy has always been members are on message or they are out of the loop, black spotted. Although now he will have the means and maybe the wish to put them out of the party entirely.

    What’s the betting when this policing sell-out is settled, Adams will stand down as an MP then get his party’s MPs to take their westminister seats, using the argument we are in for the long haul, thus we must use what ever influence we have, where-ever it is.

    This democracy business is a complex old game ah? especially when you have a Machiavellian prince at the helm.

  • starbuck

    was thinking the same Mickhall

    if SF sign up to the PSNI who enforce Westminster’s writ then the only natural progression is to sit in Westminster

    maybe someone can answer this – when and if Policing and Justice powers are transferred to Stormont would any new laws which are passed in Westminster after this date be applicable to the North ?

    or would Stormont be the sole source for such new laws ?

    This could sway wavering SF members and voters thinking.

  • BonarLaw

    starbuck

    have you asked Santa remedial constitutional law lessons? Perhaps you should.

    1. Westminster is the soverign legislature of the United Kingdon.
    2. Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.
    3. The UK legislature has decided to devolve legislative competance is certain areas to a subordinate NI legislature.
    4. The UK legislature will continue to pass laws applicable in Northern Ireland in respect of the matters not devolved.
    5. The UK legislature, as it is soverign, has the power to legislate on any matter regardless of whether or not it has been devolved.

    Perhaps if the chuckies actually went to the place they would understand how it works.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    mickhall,

    not joyously as such, simply if we don’t do ‘A’ do we simply sit around for decades until you formulate a ‘B’

  • Christopher Eastwood

    Starbuck

    It’s important to separate theory from practice. Regardless of devolution, Parliament remains sovereign, and as such can pass any law whatever to apply within Northern Ireland. The likelihood of this happening in relation to devolved areas is, however, very slight indeed. See Sir John Law’s comments in Thoburn v Sunderland C.C [2003] Q.B 151, where he includes the Northern Ireland Act in a group of statutes which he referred to as “constitutional statutes”. Whilst this is at odds with the traditional formuation of Parliamentary Sovereignty (i.e. that no Act is any more entrenched and beyond future repeal than any other), in practice it will be respected by future governments, and they will be under moral and political pressure not to legislate against it.

    This de facto reluctance to interfere is not the case, however, as regards non-devolved matters. these matters were specifically left within the competence of the Westminster Parliament. (for which, see Schedule 3 of the N.I Act 1998). The reserved matters (minus Policing and Justice powers) will remain reserved in your hypothetical future scenario.

  • gerry

    I read in the media recently, that the sdlp have said that mi5 are looking to recruit ex ruc special branch officers. if this is the case then the old special branch will still be operative, rendering any changes to policing null and void. Wouldn’t this be a block on sf’s policing stance? or maybe they’ve gone so far with this it would make no difference.

    mick (hall) i believe adams has already stated he would retire once he sees this thing up and running. i dunno about the west minister seats being taken, i’m loathe to say they’d do that, but then remember not a bullet not an ounce.

    also agree that this is being done, perhaps rushed before christmas, where bad news can be digested and forgotten about in the christmas rush.
    sly and shifty party indeed.

  • George

    What about Reverend Willie McCrea’s statement saying the timetable for the restoration of government at Stormont by March is impossible to meet?

  • ingram

    Chris,

    Now come on mate ! you have been making good progress of late.Please inform us all what has been sorted out in respect of MI5?

    Chris quote”It’s my understanding that the MI5 situtation has been resolved.

    An Ard Comhairle meeting couldn’t be called without that being sorted.
    “Unquote

    Mick H.

    quote”Looks like Chris will have to look for a new home? Although there is an important issue here, if people like Chris within SF decide to leave the PartyUnquote.

    Come on Mick you know Chris is already on the SDLP ticket. When asked lately by an American friend on this board what was the difference. between the SDLP and Sinn Fein. Our resident Shinners could not or were not able to articulate a detailed rebuttal to the commonly held belief that their is not a midgies d**k between the two.

    Chris will be the next Alex Attwood.LOL

    Merry Christmas

    Ingram

  • lib2016

    It’s all shadow-boxing – Paisley let the cat out of the bag in his speech at Westminster when he said that he ‘had to’ go into a powersharing Executive.

    No doubt there are dirty tricks involved behind the scene but there is also the simple fact that the porkbarrel is too big. If the DUP don’t play their part then that money will go to the border counties leaving the ever-reducing DUP heartlands to drop further behind.

    That’s not a prospect which will attract the voters of Portadown or Ballymena or Larne.

  • ingram

    Gerry.

    The pool of experienced operators in MI5 is very small and not experienced in operating in an hostile environment and one which is rather specialised.This process of recruiting from SB/FRU has been going on for a few years and even before the Islamic threat which has only increased further the pressures upon a very small pool of trained and experienced men and women.

    During the troubles MI5 had less than 10 active handlers in NI.Their role was more in a technical role and in Handling An Garda Siochanna officers . The majority of this field work was carried out by RUCSB/FRU although on occassions they would CO Handle an asset. The FRU had approx 100 Handlers on station at any one time and the SB at least double that figure.

    Since the late nineties MI5 have been recruiting most of the experienced FRU/SB Handlers. The point is that this is not an overnight transition and is just part of the overall HMG strategy to remove the veneer from the offending wood and replace with a more aesthetic appealing one. It is only common sense and patently obvious that BOX once they take primary responsibilty for the collection of Republican Intelligence would recruit EX FRU AND RUC SB Handlers.That has been going on now for a long time. The transition will just be like rebadging the UDR to the RIR. Same troops same operators. Simple.

    These officers have a lifetime of experience.This activity is not one that should or could be given to the inexperienced.If Sinn Fein or indeed the SDLP think they are getting anything else then both are being very naive.

    That said. I would prefer a bunch of Whitehall toff`s to be in nominally in charge and responsible rather than a biggoted prod from the Sandy Row. That is just a personal belief I am sure others will have a different perspective.

    Ingram

  • lib2016

    Amazing how your posts waffle on interminably about ‘spying’ on those awful republicans while we’ve all been watching the British terminating with prejudice the contracts of their own agents. One would almost think you were trying to distract us from the truth of what has been happening.

    It was unionism in the person of Trimble which humiliated the two Prime Ministers repeatedly. The DUP aren’t being given as long a rope with which to hang themselves.

    Meanwhile Sinn Fein just grows and grows.

  • heck

    Mickhall

    I agree will the analogy between SF and new labour and it is frightning.

    Just think about the allegations of secret influence on the SF leadership and then look at new labour and wonder who is pulling the strings on labour’s leadership and manipulating their members.

    makes you question the whole concept of democracy?

  • ingram

    Lib2016

    quote”Meanwhile Sinn Fein just grows and grows.

    Just like your name suggests and Adams promised to deliver ” Liberation and a United Ireland by 2016 you are both wrong.

    You are wrong because you naive, if you honestly believe Sinn Fein just grows and grows you are in need of some help.

    Gerry and Martin are not wrong, they know what they are doing and have done for a very long time.

    Ingram

    PS. Tell me you are taking the P**s about 2016?

  • Comrade Stalin

    I read in the media recently, that the sdlp have said that mi5 are looking to recruit ex ruc special branch officers. if this is the case then the old special branch will still be operative, rendering any changes to policing null and void. Wouldn’t this be a block on sf’s policing stance? or maybe they’ve gone so far with this it would make no difference.

    Gerry,

    If we’re going to play that game, one could just as well claim that the CIRA and RIRA are the same old IRA operating under another name.

  • just wondering

    Is that chappie Ingram for real.
    He’s now telling us that he was such an important cog that the heads of MI5, SB and the FRU all confided in him as to the exact number of handlers they all controlled.
    Can’t you keep a state secret secret anymore?
    Tsk.

  • Ingram?

    Name that man:

    He has four heroic daydream episodes. The first is as a pilot of a U.S. Navy flying boat in a horrific storm, then he is a magnificent surgeon performing a one-of-a-kind surgery, then as a cool assassin testifying in a courtroom, and finally as a Royal Air Force (RAF) pilot volunteering for a daring, secret suicide mission to bomb an ammunition dump.

  • Dec

    especially when you have a Machiavellian prince at the helm.

    It’s becoming more like Animal Farm.

  • ingram

    Just wondering.

    The whole FRU adorned in mess dress is on the Internet mate? that is if yoy can read slow boy.

    LOL

    Ingram

  • just wondering

    I can recognize a photo of the Keystone Cops when I see them.

  • ingram

    Just wondering.

    text of motion passed by Sinn Féin Ard Chomhairle
    Sinn Fein is committed to bring an end to decades of repressive and sectarian policing.

    We reject any role for MI5 in Ireland or in civic policing. We want to see democratically accountable civic policing and we will continue to work until we achieve this.

    Of course Pinky and Perky WILL. LOL

    Any comment to make upon these motions mate?.

    Chris Gaskin. Come on mate answer the questions posed earlier ,you position on MI5 roll in the policing of the community is clear. Dont do a wobble on us. LOL

    Ingram

  • just wondering
  • Tkmaxx

    What a load of old bollocks this whole SDLP/SF nonsense is – MI5 will have a long involvement with Ireland – thats why they have built a fairly impressive building at Holywood Barracks. The rest is all window dressing for the optics – who knows what influence or not they will have on local policing ( surely thats the point of covert spy intelligence gathering)- but one cannot help but think they may have bigger things on their mind -like the rest of the world. Its funny how people being robbed,attacked,raped and harassed dont really think about M15. They want police. this is a classic example of a political club argument – no one else cares.

  • joeCanuck

    That’s exactly right TJmaxx.
    And a poll a few days ago showed that they are overwhelming supported in both communities.
    Time for fingers to be deinserted (always have to use a “D” word in N.I.) on both sides.

  • Do elaborate, Chris.
    After all, the position of the ard chomhairle, and Gerry Kelly reiterated it recently, is that they reject any role for MI5 in Ireland.

    I know, my response relates to a future announcement from the British government on the role of MI5.

    It is my understanding that any move by the party leadership on the issue of policing will be in conjunction with a statement from the British government on the role of MI5.

    Looks like Chris will have to look for a new home?

    I don’t think so Mick. I will be waiting to see the final proposals before I say yes or no.

    Come on Mick you know Chris is already on the SDLP ticket.

    Delusions are dangerous Ingram, I would see a doctor if I were you!

    Chris will be the next Alex Attwood

    Now that is low, even for a lying spook like you!

    you position on MI5 roll in the policing of the community is clear. Dont do a wobble on us.

    My position on the role of MI5 is the same as ever, they have no role in civic policing. That position will never change!

  • Pete Baker

    Chris

    “My position on the role of MI5 is the same as ever, they have no role in civic policing. That position will never change!”

    Which is not the same as the Ard Comhairle position which states that the party “rejects any role for MI5 in Ireland.”

  • I agree with the Ard Comhairle position!

    Davros will never be dead while you are around pete!