McCartney: CRJ has done nothing to bring killers to justice…

Catherine McCartney has told Tony Blair about her concerns about the possible role of Sinn Fein members in her brother’s murder and a subsequent cover-up:

‘Inside Downing Street we told Tony Blair about a number of those involved in the cover-up of Robert’s murder and the fact that they are now involved in CRJ schemes. But he and his government are just going ahead regardless and creating justice ghettoes for working-class communities.

‘Members of Sinn Fein were involved either directly in Robert’s murder or the cover-up. But it seems the British government is set against doing anything that would upset Sinn Fein. It’s Sinn Fein that is behind these schemes because they want to keep control of their communities. The CRJ has done nothing to bring Robert’s killers to justice.’

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  • Londonderry Loyal

    Until sinn fein endorse policing their staff and supporters should be excluded from any future CRJ Schemes.

  • harpo

    I thought the point of CRJ schemes is that they are voluntary for all parties involved.

    Thus I can’t see any Provos volunteering to face their accusers within a CRJ scheme. Provos have always been hard enough to get into real courts to face justice. I can’t see them be willing to turn up at a CRJ hearing to explain themselves, especially as these schemes are run by the Provos. Provos aren’t so interested in justice being down when they are the perps. Their idea of justice is keeping themselves from receiving whatever fair punishment they may have to face.

    I dare say the CRJ schemes are only used by Provos when they have decided that they are the victim in some case. And I’m sure they have ways of getting the alleged perps in such cases to ‘volunteer’ to take part in a CRJ hearing.

  • na

    ‘The CRJ has done nothing to bring Robert’s killers to justice.’

    and they bloody well shouldn’t. CRJ don’t/shouldn’t investigate murders, EVER.

    What is the argument here? CRJ should or shouldn’t investigate? CRJ should only be funded after investigating murders?

    Do they want CRJ to question people? Bring perpatrator and victim together? They want CRJ to agree a punishment?

    This idea by the McCartney’s is crazy.

    Unless they are making a broader political statement beyoned their family circumstance.

  • harpo

    ‘Until sinn fein endorse policing their staff and supporters should be excluded from any future CRJ Schemes.’

    Loyal:

    There shouldn’t be any CRJ schemes at all. It’s handing over justice administration to paramilitaries.

  • harpo

    ‘and they bloody well shouldn’t. CRJ don’t/shouldn’t investigate murders, EVER.’

    na:

    Why not?

    Aren’t they in the justice business? Or is murder too serious a crime to leave to locals? Is that your point?

    What’s the dividing line then?

    Rape? Sexual assault? Theft? Setting a cat’s arse on fire? What should and shouldn’t CRJ be involved in?

    Her point I believe is the sham that CRJ schemes are. She is saying that people who are involved in local CRJ schemes are the same people who helped stop justice happening in the case of her brother.

    I’d assume that her point is that if such people are not willing to help bring justice about in the case of a murder, then what hope is there of justice from these people for any other type of crime? If they are Provos who help fellow Provos escape justice in relation to a murder, they are obviously going to do the same thing with respect to other crimes carried out by fellow Provos.

    There will be no independent justice process if these people are allowed to be in charge of justice.

  • harpo

    I assume that the point that Catherine McCartney has made will soon be drowned out by accusations that she has some political agenda, and the usual other accusations that are thrown the way of the family.

  • Very suspect that the SDLP have a huge anti-CRJ campaign and then the sisters come out with this nonsense.

    The timing says it all!

  • harpo

    ‘Very suspect that the SDLP have a huge anti-CRJ campaign and then the sisters come out with this nonsense.

    The timing says it all!’

    Chris:

    As I said, certain folks are bound to attack the McCartney’s if they state sense.

    Tell us all why what she says is nonsense.

    It makes sense to me. If Provos can’t bring themselves to deliver justice in this murder case, what should anyone think that they will ever produce anything like justice where cases of lesser crimes are brought before them in CRJ schemes? Especially when fellow Provos are the accused perps?

  • As I said, certain folks are bound to attack the McCartney’s if they state sense

    I am not attacking anyone, just pointing out that the timing of this announcement gives credence to those who claim that their campaign for justice was more than just a campaign for justice ( a campaign which I suported and still support)

    If Provos can’t bring themselves to deliver justice in this murder case

    The ‘Provos’ aren’t involved and neither are CRJ. I, unlike you, have recieved CRJ training and CRJ don’t handle murder cases.

    what should anyone think that they will ever produce anything like justice where cases of lesser crimes are brought before them in CRJ schemes?

    Because the results speak for themselves, CRJ is very effective in some circumstances.

  • spice girl

    why are the provos being called into questions? sure they never commit crimes? i just cam’t understand this blogg at all? surely wee marty should be made head of pocicing and we can all sleep safely in our beds!!
    My god, we’ve voted in a bunch of crack heads – restorative justice my ass

  • Nevin

    Why should the governments wish to let the loyalist and republican paramilitaries anywhere near the justice and policing systems other than to be made answerable for their crimes?

    BTW, as it may be a related issue, can anyone shed any light on the composition of the Finaghy Crossroads Group?

  • Christopher Stalford

    Can anyone name me one, that’s right ONE restorative justice group operating in Northern Ireland, that does not have paramilitary ex-cons at some level within its ranks?

  • Christopher Stalford

    I must say, it’s thE thought of people of the calibre of Chris Gaskin, for whom CRJ is obviously seen as an alternative to policing, administering some sort of low-level justice, for so-called petty crimes, that makes me profoundly opposed to CRJ.

  • bertie

    Yeah very suspicious that victims of terrorists should be speaking out against these thugs being part of the CJS!

    I wonder if there is a hidden agenda against this scheme?

  • Christopher Stalford

    bertie

    Of course there is. In vast tracks of Northern Ireland CRJ will be used as a mechanism for continuing paramilitary control. It’s the Provo alternative to policing and it should not be supported in my view by government.

    I’m stil waiting for ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE of a CRJ group that does not involve paramilitary convicts at some level in its organisation. I do not think there is a single one, but I would like to be proven incorrect.

  • Christopher Stalford

    FROM THE SDLP WEBSITE:

    “GSA (Greater Shankill Alternatives? – my question. CS.) does not attempt to deal with serious and violent crime, while CRJ (Ireland) does not exclude violent crime. A further difference was that GSA avoids disputes arising out of personal relationships such as marital disputes, while the position of CRJ (Ireland) is at least ambiguous.”

    Where exactly does CRJ Ireland draw the line in what type of crime it deals with? How many gardens would I have to tend for murdering someone? How many walls would need cleaned for committing a violent physical assault?

    If this isn’t an attempt by a blatantly Sinn Fein-inclined group to establish an alternative judicial system, I don’t know what is.

  • bertie

    Christopher

    I agree totally but I think that you misunderstood my point. I was being scarcastic. The SDLP are quite rightly opposed to this. the Mc Cartney sisters are quite rightly opposed to it. The suggestion that appeared here, that there was suspicious timing, is absurd.

  • Christopher Stalford

    bertie

    My mistake. Nevertheless, it’s interesting that none of my questions have been answered by our resident Sinn Fein regulars.

  • I must say, it’s thE thought of people of the calibre of Chris Gaskin,

    Which means what Christopher?

    for whom CRJ is obviously seen as an alternative to policing

    It’s not actualy, I don’t view CRJ as an alternative to proper policing.

    administering some sort of low-level justice

    That is not the way CRJ works, then again don’t let your ignorance stop you in mid flow

  • Christopher Stalford

    Perhaps Mr. Gaskin can enlighten me, given how ignorant I am. Can he name one group that is involved in CRJ that doesn’t have paramilitary ex-cons involved?

  • Christopher Stalford

    And given that he’s recieved training (from CRJI presumably) perhaps he can tell us where CRJI draw the line in terms of the type of crime they deal with? And why they don’t want a relationship with the PSNI?

  • Perhaps Mr. Gaskin can enlighten me, given how ignorant I am. Can he name one group that is involved in CRJ that doesn’t have paramilitary ex-cons involved?

    My local CRJ group

    And given that he’s recieved training (from CRJI presumably)

    I would have thought that was a given seeing as I said I recieved CRJ training, DUH!

    perhaps he can tell us where CRJI draw the line in terms of the type of crime they deal with?

    CRJ will not get involved in a case that it can not handle, murder is such a case.

  • John Maynard

    Define ‘handle’.

    Also, try to define it without using the expresion “I support the McCartney’s search for justice, but…”

  • Nevin
  • Christopher Stalford

    Gaskin

    CRJ is bigger than CRGI. DUH!

    OK. You’ve (kind of) ruled out murder. What about rape, aggrevated assault, posession of materials likely to be of use to terrorists?

    Why do CRJI, which is of course in no way linked to Sinn Fein, refuse to co-operate with the PSNI?

  • John Maynard

    Also, if CRJ can’t ‘handle’ murder cases, then shouldn’t they be referred to the PSNI?
    Or do you believe that murders in ‘republican communities’ should simply go unsolved?

  • TAFKABO

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

  • Christopher Stalford

    TAFKABO

    Nobody gaurds the gaurds, hence Sinn Fein’s support for the idea. It’s Provo policing and Mr. Gaskin’s attempts to pretend otherwise are churlish in the extreme.

  • TAFKABO

    No power without accountability. Perhaps those supporters of CRJ can explain how these schemes are accountable to the people they police?

    What measures are in place to deal with any miscarriages of justice?

    Who do these people answer to?

    What measures can you do if you feel justice has not been done?

    What can you do if you feel you have been unfairly punished?

    Is their right of appeal and legal representation for anyone accused of a crime?

    How can one be sure their basic human rights are protected?

    What penalties will be meted out to those who abuse their positions?

    Will their be the level of transparancy that people demand of the normal police service, and if not, why not?

  • John Maynard

    Chris Gaskin is rather noticeably failing to answer any of these questions.

  • harpo

    ‘CRJ brings together victims and offenders in order to resolve their differences without going through the courts.’

    I must say that the issue avoidance of Chris Gaskin is typical Provo tactics. When asked a straight question about where the line is drawn as to the crimes that CRJ schemes get involve in, Chris very unhelpfully says they don’t get involved in anything that they can’t handle.

    That’s not a reasonable answer. Surely they must have already decided what they can and can’t handle. So that when someone turns up looking for justicem CRJ can immediately say ‘that’s outside our scope’.

    Why is Chris so scared to define where the line is drawn?

    And in many cases, the point of justice isn’t to ‘bring together victims and offenders in order to resolve their differences’. It’s to protect the victims from the offenders, often via the use of punishment.

    CRJ schemes are a farce. A rapist and his victim don’t have ‘differences’. One has had their human rights violated, and the other should be punished. It’s that simple.

    CRJ hasn’t got anything to do with justice. It has everything to do with paramilitary control of areas of Northern Ireland.

  • An Bearnach

    I find it alarming in the extreme that Chris Gaskin received training in restorative justice – this raises a whole set of new questions about CRJI and its procedures. Who selected Mr Gaskin for training and by what criteria did they assess his suitability? Was it his maturity, his impartiality in social and political matters, his diplomatic skills? Was it the depth of his compassion for victims such as the McCartney sisters? Was it his deep understanding of the basic concept of justice as practised in the Short Strand or Dromintee?

    Those of us who stood up to the B-Specials reserve the right to take a critical view of the new P-Specials militia. Tax-payer funding for groups which take their definition of crime from Mitchel McLaughlin is simply not on.

  • harpo

    ‘OK. You’ve (kind of) ruled out murder.’

    Christopher:

    Good posts, and they expose the unwillingness of Gaskin to address your straight questions.

    Maybe they rule out murder only because they can’t ‘bring together the victim and the offender in order to resolve their differences’.

    I still want to know why Gaskin is scared to address the straight questions that are being asked of him.

  • TAFKABO

    It really heartens me to see so many from the nationalist community stand up for real justice and oppose CRJ. There’s hope for us all yet. Nationalists deserve a police service they can take ownership off, and whilst we’re maybe not quite there yet, the best hope is the PSNI, and not vigilante justice.

  • harpo

    ‘Is their right of appeal and legal representation for anyone accused of a crime?’

    TAFKABO:

    I think that’s the biggest failing of these schemes. That Jim Auld guy says ‘CRJ brings together victims and offenders in order to resolve their differences without going through the courts’.

    They don’t talk about the accused – they skip the part of determining guilt, and head straight to calling people offenders. I’d like to know if in every case that comes before a CRJ scheme do they simply assume that the person who claims to be a victim is actually a victim, and thus every person who is accused is actually an offender?

    It all sounds like a kangaroo court system, where anyone could accuse anyone else of a crime, and there is automatic assumed guilt. Do CRJ schemes have investigative abilities to determine if the facts as presented are actually true? Do they have safeguards built in to prevent malicious accusations? Do they punish people who waste CRJ time by bringing false accusations against others.

    To me it all appears to be a formalized versuion of the paramilitary ‘justice’ that was used throughout the troubles. People get deemed to be hoods often based on nothing more than rumour, and get run out of town by paramilitaries.

    As you say, where are the safeguards?

  • harpo

    ‘I find it alarming in the extreme that Chris Gaskin received training in restorative justice – this raises a whole set of new questions about CRJI and its procedures. Who selected Mr Gaskin for training and by what criteria did they assess his suitability? Was it his maturity, his impartiality in social and political matters, his diplomatic skills? Was it the depth of his compassion for victims such as the McCartney sisters? Was it his deep understanding of the basic concept of justice as practised in the Short Strand or Dromintee?’

    An Bearnach:

    Maybe it’s simpler than that. Maybe he was selected based on his skills with a hurley stick or baseball bat.

  • Christopher Stalford

    Harpo

    All very good questions. Maybe Mr. Gaskin would care to answer them, seeing as he’s so better informed than the rest of us, given his “training”.

  • harpo

    ‘I am not attacking anyone’

    Chris G:

    Yes you did – you said that she hd talked nonsense. That isn’t agreement with her, therefore you are attacking her opinion.

    ‘Because the results speak for themselves, CRJ is very effective in some circumstances.’

    Like what? Give us some examples of how justice has been done.

    BTW
    What is the definition of ‘justice’ that CRJ schemes operate under? Please explain it to us all.

  • Christopher Stalford

    Chirs Gaskin saith:

    “I am not attacking anyone, just pointing out that the timing of this announcement gives credence to those who claim that their campaign for justice was more than just a campaign for justice ( a campaign which I suported and still support)”

    Talk about duplicity!

  • harpo

    ‘All very good questions. Maybe Mr. Gaskin would care to answer them, seeing as he’s so better informed than the rest of us, given his “training”.’

    Christopher:

    The first thing I’d like to know from him, is what the working definition of ‘justice’ is in CRJ schemes.

    PSF have an odd definition of justice, and I wonder if the CRJ version of justice in similar to it. Or if his support for PSF has coloured his views on what justice actually is.

    The PSF version of justice has been articulated many times, and can best be summed up as ‘no republican should ever face punishment for anything’. Mitchel M and many other PSF reps are on record as saying that many activities are not crimes – at least when a Provisional does them they aren’t – so I wonder if Chris carries this into his CRJ work? Are there 2 levels of justice within CRJ – 1 when the offender is a Provo and another when the offender is not a Provo?

  • Christopher Stalford

    Excellent question. Pity the spineless cretins installed in the NIO aren’t asking such questions in their headlong rush to throw money at these people.

  • TAFKABO

    I think there may be method to NIO madness. Can anyone imagine what’s going to happen in a couple of years when human rights groups start investigating miscarriages of justice by these groups?. Who is going to suffer the most?, probably those political parties closest to the schemes.

    I’d be happy for this to happen, except for the fact that I forsee some pretty unacceptable abuses of human rights on the horizon.

  • Christopher Stalford

    Still no reponse from Gaskin. Can’t say I’m surprised given the pasting he’s taken.

  • spice girl

    is there anyone out there that is actually for this scheme?? I think N.Ireland should be the last place in the world where this type of justice takes place? Our society is infiltarted with paramilitaries who would just love to get some governement money to pay for beer tokens.
    what a shambles – PSNI up to 20% catholics – that’s where the future lies!

  • slug

    I would like to add my name to those opposed to this appalling scheme.

    Shame on the NIO.

  • TAFKABO

    It’s frightening to think that with so many intelligent and articulate republicans on this board, so few can muster any type of defence or answer some very simple questions in relation to CRJ.

  • harpo

    ‘It’s frightening to think that with so many intelligent and articulate republicans on this board, so few can muster any type of defence or answer some very simple questions in relation to CRJ.’

    TAFKABO:

    I’d take issue with the ‘intelligent and articulate’ description, but it is certainly frightening that they appear in droves if the debate boot is being but into the evil unionists or the evil Brits, but crawl off into the bushes when there is open debate of something that normal decent people of all stripes are concerned about.

    We had Gaskin on for a few posts, but even he – trained in the dark arts of CRJ he claims – seemed to lose the gift of the gab that he often displays, and was instead dancing around when asked direct questions. Avoiding the issues. We’re don’t get involved in cases we aren’t equipped to handle indeed. That wasn’t the question, and he knew it. He was asked which sorts of crimes CRJ does get involved in, and where the line is drawn.

    I’m not surprised though – IRs usually clam up when it’s obvious that they are going to take a beating in a debate.

  • Dec

    Good to see Christopher Stalford back posting regularly. Undoubtedly his long absence has been due to working tirelessly on behalf of his constituents; surely only the most cynical would suggest he’s been keeping his head down after his apalling gaffe regarding Billy Wright on this very site which was later picked up by Newton Emerson in the Irish News to widespread shaking of heads.

    Still his opposition to CRJ and, by extension his concern for the ordinary nationalist (excluding the victims of Mr Wright, presumably) is touching.

  • Dec

    I’m not surprised though – IRs usually clam up when it’s obvious that they are going to take a beating in a debate.

    Priceless, harpo. I think we’d established on the FF thread that you can barely read let alone dish out debatory thrashings.

  • It may come as a surprise to some on this thread but some of us have lives outside blogging. I am sorry that I am not available 24/7 to respond to responses from cretins but I shall just have to live with it.

    My lateness in replying has nothing to do with being afraid of debate. There are plenty of debaters on this thread and quite a few of them seem to be master.

    Why do CRJI, which is of course in no way linked to Sinn Fein, refuse to co-operate with the PSNI?

    Stalford

    Jim Auld has said that they don’t work with the RUC/PSNI because of nationalists’ mistrust of them, because of this the organisations could not work together.

    “People are not ready yet to work with the PSNI. All the evidence suggests there is still a huge sense of mistrust in them,”

    “If we went ahead and decided to work with the police, and we didn’t have the backing of the people, that would be the doom of this organisation. We would lose that truth – and that is crucial.”

    Mr. Gaskin’s attempts to pretend otherwise are churlish in the extreme.

    You asked if I viewed CRJ as an alternative to proper policing, I said no if you can’t handle that then it’s your problem. My response is not churlish.

    A rapist and his victim don’t have ‘differences’. One has had their human rights violated, and the other should be punished. It’s that simple

    CRJ is used in Canada for some Rape cases, I however disagree with its use in these circumstances.

    I find it alarming in the extreme that Chris Gaskin received training in restorative justice

    Why?

    Who selected Mr Gaskin for training and by what criteria did they assess his suitability?

    I asked to recieve CRJ training but I am not a member of CRJ as I don’t have the time to carry out CRJ work.

    Dromintee?

    You are a troll and a cowardly troll at that!

    Maybe he was selected based on his skills with a hurley stick or baseball bat.

    I have never played hurley or baseball, If you are suggesting that I have used these bats for other reasons then I suggest you come out and say that.

    That isn’t agreement with her, therefore you are attacking her opinion.

    I am disagreeing with her, not attacking her. Last time I checked the world didn’t revolve around the word of the McCartneys. I will challenge anyone who is engaging in bullshit, I don’t care who they are!

    so I wonder if Chris carries this into his CRJ work?

    I don’t carry out any CRJ work except that if people come to my doors with complaints about anti-social behaviour I sometimes refer them to CRJ.

  • frank

    Its a bit rich for stalford to critisise anyone, he marches in orange order parades that include many who are associated with loyalist paramilitaries.

    Was it his lodge who hired & paid the Brian Robinson uvf band, Shankill Star during the 12th or somme march in July or perhaps he is friendly with his fellow brethern who carried the Joe Bratty uff banner during the 12th or the shankill butcher lodge from the Shankill.

    Kettle..Black…

  • TAFKABO

    topic..avoid…

  • jocky

    Chris, according to you, or your quote, the bulk of the nationalist community don’t support the PSNI, so where the frig is the 37% Catholic of the 7691 applicants for the PSNI coming form?

    Are they all SDLP? are they not proper nationalists in your books? Have you got some snide nick name for them? Are the all inclusive Sinn Fein not intrested in this growing electorate?

    So considering they’re going for only 220 jobs seems like catholics are queueing up to join the PSNI? They must all be sell outs, or maybe their fed up with the Provos and their apologists?

    Sinn Feinns stanceon policing has been nothing but a chip on the bargaining table, one they’ve sold their electorate down the river for.

    Your mealy mouthed “oh it’s not a replacement for effective policing” “oh we want proper policing” attempt to jusitfy the Sinn Feinn policy on policing demeans you. Everyone else can see it for what it is.

    A couple of quesitons;

    If Sinn Feinn backed policing from the start how many more Catholics wold have signed up by now
    a) loads more
    b) loads less
    c) the same amount

    If their was more Catholics in the police force would it be
    a) more representative and more effective
    b) less representative nad less effective
    c) the same amount

    It’s a numbers game, simple no amount of sophistry will obscure that fact.

    Sorry but this topic really get’s my goat, shows up the short sighted, self serving nature of N.I> politics.

  • so where the frig is the 37% Catholic of the 7691 applicants for the PSNI coming form?

    So according to you because about 2,500 ‘Catholics’ apply to the RUC/PSNI that somehow shows that the majority of Nationalists (around 700,000 or so) support them?

    Very poor logic indeed!!!

    Are they all SDLP?

    For all I know they are UUP or Alliance

    are they not proper nationalists in your books?

    I have no way of knowing that they are Nationalists, they could be Unionists.

    Have you got some snide nick name for them?

    I have many, none of which would pass Mick’s ‘play the ball’ policy.

    So considering they’re going for only 220 jobs seems like catholics are queueing up to join the PSNI?

    No, some Catholics. Only 2,500 of them are.

    attempt to jusitfy the Sinn Feinn policy on policing demeans you

    I was asked for my opinion and I gave it, grow up!

    If Sinn Feinn backed policing from the start how many more Catholics wold have signed up by now
    a) loads more
    b) loads less
    c) the same amount

    If their was more Catholics in the police force would it be
    a) more representative and more effective
    b) less representative nad less effective
    c) the same amount

    It’s a numbers game, simple no amount of sophistry will obscure that fact.

    I have never supported 50/50 policing. A Catholic RUC/PSNI officer can be just as bad or worse than a Protestant. This was never about religion for me, it’s about politics and who controls the police. The Structures and the issues of collusion.

    You may play the religion card but I don’t!

  • Jocky

    OK Chris, it’s a big leap of faith from 2,500 to 700,000. But hey factor in demographics, current employment statistics, total catholic employment within the police service and your a long way from the big lie of no support for the PSNI as trouted out by many Sinn Feinn supporters, you might convince yourself but your not convincing anyone else. The point is there’s Catholics out there that want a police service and your party, super champion of poor oppressed catholics are going agianst them. Why?

    So what your looking for is an accountable police force? and then you’ll put the numbers in, but not before then. HOw exactly does that work and how does it benefit the natinalist community?

    “Stuctures” So it’s all to do with beurocracy? and then the police will be so much better. So how does “sturctures” affect a bobby walking down the street stopping a shoplifter, or an assualt, is that why you’d prefer no police service to an increasingly representative force?

    So all those catholic recruits will be doing a poor job until you get another layer of regulation in, some other committee?

    Answer may this then, why not put the numbers in now and sort out the accountability later? what difference does it make?

    Why is the police about politics?

    Who controls the police? What’s wrong with the current setup, what’s your preffered setup and why will that make all the difference? Examples would be helpful.

    Ah, collusion, the big bogeyman, again surely getting the numbers would help to reduce the issues of collusion at the coal face?

    Prime example, IIPCC, De Menzes who blew the whistle on the whole cover up? some wee wifey who had to file the paper work, why wouldn’t you want one of your wee wifeys in their checking the paperwork. That’s what I dont get?

    Until I hear something substantive beyond one sentance replies that link together the key words “Patten”, “rubber bullets”, “accountability”, “collusion” it all looks like nothing more than the grubby politics of self interest.

  • John Maynard

    Chris Gaskin still hasn’t answered my question.
    I asked him to define the limit of crimes CRJ can’t handle.
    Others also raised this question.
    Mr Gaskin is being highly selective in the points he is choosing to address.

  • T.Ruth

    CRJ is not about Justice-it is a part of the larger SF/IRA Project North and South of the border to continue to assert the legitimacy of the IRA in relation to the government of Ireland.
    The search for a United Ireland governed by Sinn Fein is absolute futility.How many lives have been expended needlessly already on an impossible dream?
    Surely, as we look at the tragic consequences of state and private army terrorism in the middle east, and at our own experience in the last forty years, we must realise it is time for all the people of Northern Ireland to accept the reality of its existence and seek to live together in Peace.Continued attempts,in or out of government,to subvert the system by which normal societies are governed will only lead to a continuation of enmity.A society can afford only one legitimate police service.We have one already.We do not need another,staffed by local war lords masquerading as local law lords.
    The Republican dream became a nightmare even for the Nationalist /Republican community and it has cost our society dearly. It really is time to move the process forward by embracing the demographic reality that Unionists will always be in a majority and get on with the business of making Northern Ireland a great,happy,prosperous place for all of us with the emphasis on the general good of all our people.

  • harpo

    If you read all the material about CRJ schemes wordwide, you get the impression that the people who actually believe in this stuff care about the communities that they serve, and would go out of their way to get involved in any way to make communities better.

    I thus find it very odd that when faced with a case where there is a real need for justice to be delivered – the McCartney case – the first thing you hear from supporters of CRJI is ‘nothing to do with us’ – ‘outside our scope’ – ‘we can’t handle it’.

    Where is all of this spirit of making communities better places? It disappears in a flash, and instead we get what is basically a union mentality – ‘it’s not in our defined responsibilities so nothing to do with us. Take it up with someone else’.

    If this is to be the attitude of CRJ schemes in NI, I say NI would be better off without them. It’s obvious that these people don’t actually care about justice being done. It’s all about control of their communities, and a formalized version of paramilitary ‘law enforcement’ systems.

  • Christy

    CRJ could just as well be called intimidate, decimate, blacken the names of those that do not see eye to eye with the Provos/Sinn Fein. True or False?

    For the life of me I cannot understand why Roman Catholics who have leanings towards nationalism, socialism or republicanism would vote for a double edged sword like party that wreaks havoc on people living within this absurd statelet, be they Roman Catholic, Protestant, Muslim or Jew especially when Sinn Fein do not possess a genuine and sincere ideological base. That political party is the most belligerent, patronising and Machiavellian assortment of creatures that man ever bore witness to.

    Three murderous examples exemplify this best: the murders of Mrs. McConville, Mr. Kearney and most recently Mr. McCartney. After all three murders Sinn Fein/PIRA vilified all three human beings. As such Roman Catholics like myself should ask ourselves when we receive the Holy Eucharist on a Sunday at Mass ´Why is it, that I support a dark, murderous, rotten and vile organisation that really only looks after itself and its unlawful and despicable cohorts´. After asking yourself this question and not being able to redeem yourself perhaps you should no longer be part of the Roman Catholic Church.

    The ownership of Ireland is a moral question that lacks complexity. To steal is to sin; in order to seek forgiveness from the people you have stolen from you should perhaps ask for forgiveness from these people only after you have given back what rightfully belongs to them. So England might well experience less hatred from those around it if it only followed this type of pattern of thought. To steal life and not repent yet continue a trend of violence against the families and friends that you stole that life from will only lead to one conclusion. However, how can so called republican minded Roman Catholics hate England without even criticsing or disapprovingly point a finger towards the hate filled thuggish brutal actions of Sinn Fein/PIRA.

    By the way I am not a member of any unionist organisation as some of you moronic narrow-minded republican empty vessels might be thinking because of the usage ´Sinn Fein/PIRA´ throughout this letter. Maybe I should have wrote Sinn Fein/PIRA/CRJ. Some of you might see the irony in this but those three organisations that combine to make one tangled callous mess bears no similarity whatsoever to what the patron saint of Ireland was trying to convey to those willing men and women of this land through the use of a shamrock.