Willie Frazer on US radio…

Rather belatedly we pick up Chris’s link to a radio interview with Willie Frazer of FAIR. The interview is fascinating and well worth listening to the whole way through, not least for the evangelical Christian interviewer’s characterisation of the assasination of Protestants in the border areas as an attempt to spread Roman Catholic influence. But most controversially, and this was subsequently picked up in Daily Ireland (though the article is now seems lost in the morass of that paper’s archives), he also accuses the ambulance driver who came to his dying father of deliberately slowing up his response time (23 mins in).

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  • harpo

    ‘Disgraceful, you have deliberately ignored the majority of my point.’

    Prince:

    No – I tried my best to answer your puzzle. Was I right? Was the answer ‘truthful’. It begins with t and ends in l.

    ‘Does it help your conscience to demonize innocents murdered in the name of Britishness?’

    Where did I demonize anyone? All I said is that if Pat Finucane was a PIRA member then you can’t very well complain about him being an innocent, can you?

    It’s like those PIRA and INLA guys who were shot in 1982 – the cases that became known as the shoot-to-kill cases. I don’t see what all the whining is about. Combatants were killed by combatants. Isn’t that what happens in war? And the INLA and PIRA both said that they were at war, didn’t they? So what’s the whining about?

    In this case we were discussing Pat Finucane. Now if he was a member of the PIRA then isn’t he ‘fair game’ as the man said? Or in this war is it only the PIRA that gets to kill support staff?

    ‘Micheal McIlveen’

    Where did anyone mention him? He certainly seems to be an innocent, but I wan’t saying anything about him.

    ‘the 14 in Derry’

    13 innocents and one Provo. All out on an illegal march.

    What’s your point in mixing innocents up with the actual guilty and those on whom the jury is still out?

    I didn’t demonize anyone. And if by saying that someone was a Provo, or there is evidence that they were a Provo, then isn’t that just stating facts? How is it demonizing anyone?

  • Rory

    Hold on a bleedin’ minute! Never mind all this ‘ I’m a troll, poley wole’ and ‘ Big Billy Goat Gruff’ business, let’s get back to the nitty-gritty. Right, comtades? – pull your bloody selves together – the world is watching us. Right?

    Can we get now address the central question –

    “Is Willy and Christopher Biggins one and the same person?” – because, if they are not, Biggins is going to be mighty miffed at the way this fat imposter is hogging the attention.

    “Fat” as that far seeing self appointed spokesperson for all women every where, past, present and to come, Suzie Orbach, once declared is “a feminist issue”.

    Indeed when we look upon Willy we may think that there is more to Suzie’s idea than later detractors have considered.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    factsman: ““Pat Finucane’s brother, John, an IRA man, was killed on active service in a car crash in the Falls Road, Belfast, in 1972. Another terrorist brother Dermot successfully contested attempts to extradite him to Northern Ireland from the Irish Republic, while a third brother was the fiancée of Mairead Farrell, one of the IRA trio shot dead by the SAS in Gibraltar in 1988.”

    it does *seem* odds on he was also a member ”

    Assumes facts not in evidence, factsman. Were I to go through the friends and relations of those killed by the IRA, would I not likely find similar connections? Does that make them legitimate targets as well?

  • harpo

    ‘And who robbed the Great Northern Bank?’

    Dread:

    I don’t know. I wasn’t aware that this small US bank had been robbed.

    How do you know so much about a small bank in Minnesota?

  • harpo

    ‘Assumes facts not in evidence, factsman. Were I to go through the friends and relations of those killed by the IRA, would I not likely find similar connections? Does that make them legitimate targets as well?’

    Dread:

    So how come you don’t apply this thinking when it comes to people that are on FAIR’s list of innocent victims?

    Much of the nationalist hatred aimed towards Wille Frazer depends on exactly this method of guilt by association. His father knew various people and so he must have been involved in loyalist terrorism too is what we are told. The same goes for others on the FAIR victims list.

    How is it that you aren’t asking people for ‘facts not in evidence’ when those claims are made?

  • puzzled

    ahh Dread Cthulhu or should i say Prince Eugene aka stephen copeland also known as rory alias steaky and the arist formerly known as English has returned !!!

    the prince has more socks than M&S

  • harpo

    ‘I will make a point of catching you another time Harpo, more important things to do right now than let a few blood-thirsty apologists for loyalist murderers detain me.’

    Prince:

    Don’t let us keep you away from whoever you are with. But why are you with ‘blood-thirsty apologists for loyalist murderers’ in the first place? And how are they detaining you? They allow you computer access while under detention?

  • bertie

    It seems to me that WF greatest crime and it would appear it is unforgivable in NI is that he seeks justice

  • harpo

    ‘ahh Dread Cthulhu or should i say Prince Eugene aka stephen copeland also known as rory alias steaky and the arist formerly known as English has returned !!!

    the prince has more socks than M&S’

    Puzzled:

    So when Stephen was whining about trolls and sock puppets was he just covering up for his own activities in these areas? The old tactic of the puppet-master accusing everyone else of running puppets?

  • TAFKABO

    And who robbed the Great Northern Bank?

    Presuming you are referring to the Northern Bank robbery, then that was the IRA.

    You are aware that the principle of innocent until proven guilty applies to people and not organisations, and that is is in fact the presumption of innocence for the purposes of trial?

  • the bees knees

    lol nice one harpo !, I (after months of global research) managed to track down a picture of him:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Mugshot_Puppet_S.png/180px-Mugshot_Puppet_S.png

    gtg now, i’ll end by saying for far too many years protestants suffered in silence, afraid to speak out. But no more, now our story will be told, america is already starting to get the real story and nationalists will do all in their power to prevent their “downtrodden irish opressed by occupying british army” image being challenged. Willie is making great inroads in this area, and FAIR play to him. (Pun intended)

  • harpo

    ‘It seems to me that WF greatest crime and it would appear it is unforgivable in NI is that he seeks justice’

    bertie:

    Absolutely correct. But you forgot to add in ‘when the PIRA is the perpetrator of the injustice’.

    You see the Provisionals are all on for getting at justice when the other side is accused of some injustice. But if a Prod/unionist/loyalist seeks justice and the PIRA is up for examination the seeker is maligned so that the poor PIRA doesn’t have to be examined.

  • Fenian Bastard

    I don’t consider ‘fenian’ a term of abuse. In fact I would better describe myself as somewhat of a ‘fenian bastard’ if the truth be told.

    Posted by Slartibuckfast on Jul 18, 2006 @ 04:05 PM

    Hey!!!!

    Identity theft.

  • harpo

    ‘I don’t consider ‘fenian’ a term of abuse. In fact I would better describe myself as somewhat of a ‘fenian bastard’ if the truth be told.’

    I’d like to know why so many of you fenians had parents who weren’t married.

    And why this is such a source of pride for you.

    You had no input into what the marital status of your parents was when you were born, so why boast about it?

  • bertie

    harpo

    I know of no other victim that gets such abuse. I wonder is it also something to do with him having the temerity to have lost five gamily members to IRA terrorism. Is the abuse proportional to the number of bereavements suffered?

  • Fenian Bastard
  • harpo

    ‘I know of no other victim that gets such abuse. I wonder is it also something to do with him having the temerity to have lost five gamily members to IRA terrorism. Is the abuse proportional to the number of bereavements suffered?’

    bertie:

    No – it’s proportional to the amount of bad publicity that you can bring upon the PIRA. That’s why the McCartney sisters get so much shit. They didn’t do what many nationalists would see as the decent thing – shutting the hell up about the beloved PIRA after a few questions. No, they dared to keep going, so of course they became the bad people.

    Nationalists come out like sewer rats to attack Wille Frazer because they can’t stand him exposing the PIRA for what they were. He dares to keep going too, so he draws abuse too.

  • TAFKABO

    I never realised they sold mugs in the the Sinn fein bookshop I thought they only sold to mugs. Still, if
    mugs are your target audience, you’ll never run out of buyers.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    Harpo: “So how come you don’t apply this thinking when it comes to people that are on FAIR’s list of innocent victims? ”

    First of all, Harpo, I must compliment you on your sunny disposition. Always a pleasure.

    Secondly, I’m not the one applying it, “Factsman” is, to justify some half-assed comment made by someone else. However, I find that if its gravy for a goose, it ought to be gravy for a gander. If its going to be “innocent until proven guilty,” then fine. But if we’re gonna cherry-pick and weasel our way to rationalizing what we can’t prove, then its gotta work both ways, or we’re just wasting everyone time with pointless posturing.

    Thirdly — nice catch on the bank. 🙂

  • skinbop

    harpo – you missing the medication still?
    have to give Mr Frazer a lot of credit for telling it how he lived it in that area in those days. definite need for reconciliation there.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “Presuming you are referring to the Northern Bank robbery, then that was the IRA.

    You are aware that the principle of innocent until proven guilty applies to people and not organisations, and that is is in fact the presumption of innocence for the purposes of trial?”

    And which members of the IRA have been tried and found guilty, TAFKABO? Unless N.I. is going about having secret trials, no one has be judged and to say that members of this group or that group committed the crime would be a trifle premature, neh?

    You assume. Frankly, there was so little evidence in the early going that folks came up with “there is no evidence, that *PROVES* it was the IRA!!”

    Now, I have always allowed the possibility of direct or indirect involvement before or after the fact (planning or money-laundering, etc). However, there is also the possiblity that some other group pulled off the job, possibly using PIRA after the fact to launder the take. Last I’d checked, which, admittedly, was a while ago, the police theory involved an inside job.

    Personally, it looked to me like amateur hour — too much traceable scrip stolen — bank scrip is not nearly as fungible as “real” currency. Hell, the damned thing sounds more like a bad “cops and robbers” yarn — the kind of bad novel you find in a drugstore, so full of plot-holes that Hollywood wouldn’t option it.

  • TAFKABO

    And which members of the IRA have been tried and found guilty, TAFKABO? Unless N.I. is going about having secret trials, no one has be judged and to say that members of this group or that group committed the crime would be a trifle premature, neh?

    Dear Dread.

    Have you at any time ever made claims regarding Loyalist organisations and the widespread sale of drugs?
    Can I ask how your willingness to accept the guilt of one organisation fits into your little speech about the presumption of innocence until guilt has been proven?

    I eagerly await your no doubt perfectly understandable and rational explanation for the seeming contradiction between your accusations of one set of terrorists and defence of another.

    Over to you mo chara.

  • Kenny

    Frazer obviously had a captive audience with this radio interviewer (who started out from a blatently anti-Catholic viewpoint anyway).

    However, he has little or no credibility with the majority of open minded people. I spend my time between NI + London and I know very few people who see him as anything more than a petty, bitter b-i-g-o-t.

    I greatly admire Alan McBride. Instead of becoming bitter and twisted, he has makes a positive contribution. He rightly condemns ALL
    murders and is NOT in any way associated with “Loyalist” terrorists.

    On the other hand – look at the difference with Frazer.

    A number of the “victims” he champions were loyalist terrorist murderers. There were members of the Gleanne gang amongst the Kingsmill dead – I am NOT justifying the murder of anyone – I am pointing out that they were not all innocent victims as portrayed by Frazer.

    He was a friend of Billy Wright.

    He still associates with loyalist terrorists – a number of them are highly placed in “Love Ulster”

    He never condemns (or even mentions) the many innocent catholics that have been murdered – especially those that were murdered by RUC/UDR members.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “Have you at any time ever made claims regarding Loyalist organisations and the widespread sale of drugs? ”

    My, TAFKABO — when did this become an inquisition?

    But, if you must know, there are stories, in the past tense, addressing the affinity between Loyalism and drugs. The UDA has openly discussed their problem with the drug trade, much akin to that of the Mafia in the US during the fifties and sixties — they like to claim they’re not in it, but they make their money in the trade, nonetheless.

    To quote the Fourth OCTF report (Spring 2004), the UDA is in the illegal drug trade. The are also statements within the BBC addressing the regular feuds between the LVF and UVF over drugs.

    On the other hand, the IRA are linked to According to the report, the IRA is linked to “large scale smuggling and counterfeiting, tax and VAT fraud. ”

    This report is based upon the disruption and dismantling of 60 gangs — past tense. To quote the current website:

    “The impact of the illegal drugs market lies in the effect drugs have on the user and the social degradation associated with illicit drug use. There are also additional costs to society incurred through education, treatment and rehabilitation programmes. Drug abuse is closely associated with acquisitive crime; a recent study in South Belfast showed that a significant number of the most prolific burglars are heroin addicts.

    Loyalist paramilitary groups are assessed to be heavily involved in the illegal drugs trade in Northern Ireland. ”

    Now, if you can’t believe the police who “disrupt the gangs,” you can you believe?

    I’m sure the PSNI and the OCTF would welcome and useful information you have on PIRA’s involvement in the Northern Bank robbery.

  • Slugger O’Toole Admin

    For those of you still playing the man rather than the ball, see this note on the ad hominem fallacy.

  • bertie

    Kenny

    Alan Mc Bride has not been strongly azzociated with seeking justice. That would fit my theory of him being a “good victim”.

  • TAFKABO

    Dread.

    You seem to be relying on the words of the BBC, journalists and the police to support your claim regarding the loyalists and drugs.

    Will you allow me to use the same sources to support my contention that the IRA were involved in the Northern Bank robbery?

  • Fraggle

    How did that bundle of money from the Northern Bank robbery end up in the police recreation centre at Newforge Lane?

  • bertie

    We’re way off topic here but it wouldn’t be difficult to leave a bundle of money at Newforge. After carrying out the robbery that bit would be easy peasy

  • Tochais Siorai

    Is there anyone in the UUP who is uncomfortable with this man standing as a proxy candidate for them in the forthcoming by-election? Have any of them got the guts to speak out?

  • bertie

    They should be more uncomfortable with a victim of terrorism that David Ervine?????

    If I was Willie Frazer, I would have a problem with being endorced by UUP/UVF!

  • Rory

    I would better describe myself as somewhat of a ‘fenian bastard’ proudly declaims Slartibuckfast, an identity which I would also proclaim with delight.

    As to why we should be so happy to be referred to as ‘bastards’ may I say, for my part, that the circumstances of my birth (and my fine good looks) I attribute to my mother’s great beauty and my father’s most excellent taste – which is a lot more than could be said for that weaselly fat oik, Willie Frazier.

  • Tochais Siorai

    It would appear that Willie leaned more towards the LVF in more recent times, bertie.

  • John

    I’ve just listened again to the whole podcast.
    Why do ‘Born Again Christains’ views always strike me to be Anti-Christian?

  • George

    According to Willie, known associate of loyalist terrorists according to the PSNI, the Pope gave gold crucifixes to the Hunger strikers.

    After that one, I can’t really take anything this man takes seriously.

    But I would love to know how a supposed “Christian” can justify associating with loyalist terrorists.

  • bertie

    The bit about the cricifixes was in the news at the time I remember it well.

    Willie maintains that the PSNI have got it wrong.

  • George

    Bertie,
    why should I believe Willie and not the PSNI on his association with terrorists?

    The IRA say the PSNI have got it wrong on the Northern Bank job.

  • bertie

    I googled it and one of the references led me to this it’s from Ten Men Dead

    “Jim Gibney, a senior Sinn Féin official, had just been in to see McCreesh. He was in good shape. Gibney was walking down t he corridor when he saw Sands’s door open. His mother, father and sister, Marcella, were alongside the bed. Bobby was wearing a crucifix given to him by Fr Magee on the Pope’s behalf. “

  • barnshee

    I just love all the provo/SF supporters jumping on willie– he must be doing something (w)right to get up their noses so sucsesfully-

  • bertie

    George

    It’s not just the PSNI saying that about the IRA.

    Are you saying that the PSNI never makes mistakes? I’m just pointing out that Willie denys it. In the interview he calls the loyalist terrorists gangsters.

    Barshee. He’s just not being a good boy. Having 5 members of your family murdered might just be forgivable but wanting justice for them???

    Bad Willie! Bad Willie!

  • rumours

    Can anyone else shed light on the runour after bobby sands post mortem, they “filled his body out” to make it more presentable. Some rumours i heard suggested that certain “emblems and flags” were stuffed inside him. Im sure others have heard this, can anyone elaborate ?

  • bertie

    OT but Mick can you do something about access to the comments please. I have braodband but it seems to be slow. I am really ticked off having to wait for the thread to come up before I can then select the last page. It is taking ages. Can’t we have someway of going directly to the last page of comments without having to go via the first? PLEASE!!

  • Kenny

    Bertie

    Back to the beginning – Frazer is a hypocrite!

    He calls terrorists gangsters – only for public consumption in the US.

    He was friendly with Billy Wright and defended him.

    He is consorting with known “loyalist” terrorists in the Love Ulster movement i.e. UDA “brigadier” Jackie McDonald.

    He never ever!! mentions atrocities such as the Miami Showband massacre or the other activities of the Gleanne gang.

    I’m sure everone (Catholic or Protestant)who has lost relatives would like justice. The trouble with Frazer is that he doesn’t care about or want any justice for Catholic victims – just Protestant ones. As a Catholic, it’s hard to stomach Frazer – talking about innocent victims while cosying up to the LVF.

    Fraser wants revenge not justice.

    If a Catholic victim was running around with republican terrorists spouting the kind of crap Fraser comes out with – this board would be swamped by outraged unionist comments.

    The experience of losing relatives in the troubles can either make you react positively i.e. The late Gordon Wilson or Michael McGoldrick’s father. Alternatively it can turn you into a bitter, vengeful, twisted person – like
    Frazer.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “You seem to be relying on the words of the BBC, journalists and the police to support your claim regarding the loyalists and drugs. ”

    Among other, including the words of the UDA, discussing their drug problem. I also reviewed the NDC on Drug Use Directory, the Post.ie, discussion thread on at least two pro-Union blogs, including the Young Unionists, at least one House of Commons hansard, scholarly works from such august bodies as the Candian Firearms Center, the Telegraph (English, not Irish), interviews with ex-Loyalists, the Urban dictionary, the Guardian, the obituaries and biographies of several “colorful” high ranking Loyalists, just as Jim “Doris Day” Gray and other sources.

    TAFKABO: “Will you allow me to use the same sources to support my contention that the IRA were involved in the Northern Bank robbery?”

    No, since they are not loigcal equivalents. Loyalist drug gangs, as much as you may not like them, are a fact. That the IRA robbed the Northern bank has barely cleared the hurdle from hypothesis to working theory.

  • TAFKABO

    Thank for the laugh.

    So all the types of evidence that you felt relevant enough to include, are not acceptable in your eyes.
    The IRAs proven history in criminality, including armed robbery is presumably just as irrelevant, as is the millions uncovered (directly linked to the robbery) by police following the trail of the IRA. And all the statements of the two police services who said they were following a definite line of enquiry.

    Keep taking the pills mo chara.

  • Steaky

    “Keep taking the pills mo chara”

    Aye but who sold Dread Cthulhu those pills TAFKABO?

  • TAFKABO

    I was of course referring to legaly proscribed medication, I’m confident that Dread wouldn’t be involved in illegality.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    TAFKABO: “The IRAs proven history in criminality, including armed robbery is presumably just as irrelevant, as is the millions uncovered (directly linked to the robbery) by police following the trail of the IRA. ”

    I repeat, I have allowed they *may* be involved before, during and/or after the act, I just don’t accept it as proven fact as of yet — we’re it sufficiently provable, someone would have been prosecuted by now, neh? There are any number of logical scenarios that cover the items you describe: They may not have robbed the bank, but the robbers may have used their offices as money-launderers to dispose of the loot; The monies recovered may have been the IRA’s “cut” for allowing the crime / not killing the perpetrators; The IRA may have even robbed the robbers, showing there is no honor among thieves. My main reason for looking askance is that it is a bit of an anomaly — its too high profile, the loot selected too amateur. The tactics read like a bad novel, gangs using the same tactics operated in England about the same time, leaving the possibility of a professional gang that “bought a licence” from the IRA to pull the job. The IRA-alone theory does not pass the “cui bono” test — the IRA had little to gain and a great deal to lose. Could it be IRA men gone freelance? At that point, once they’re working on their own account, is the IRA really still involved, per se, or are they at that point simply along for the ride and, as demonstrated by the McCartney matter, suffering from gravely misplaced loyalties?

    This is as opposed to the Loyalist involvement in drugs, which has been proven, which directly benefit the organizations and are an on-going problem for Loyalist areas, both for the drugs themselves and the turf feuds they inevitably engender.

    Yours in a case of inductive reasoning, tinted heavily by your personal perspective. You had this chalked up as the IRA long before the first evidence was discovered. You may be right, but so is a broken clock, twice a day.

  • bertie

    Kenny

    Considering what people have said that he said on that tape and what I heard when I listened to it I take comments about his friendship with wright with a pinch of salt.

    The UDA thugs turned up at the LU launch agter a general invite went out to all unionists to come and help. These people miss no trick.

    Why should he mention other atrocities? His focus is on republican terrorism and why not? That is what his organisation is focusing on.

    I will condemn anyonerunning round with terrorists but I see no evidence of that here.

    Again you give examples of victims who have not been making a stand for justice, therefore they are the good victims. Although Mr. Wilson’s call for internment without trial to be reintroduced after a meeting with the IRA could be considered going beyond a call for justice.

    Be specific about the “vengence” that you consider WF to have asked for that is not justice? Not wanting terrorists released from prisons, not wanting the OTR amnesty? Is that your “vengence”? If so, you and I have very very different ideas about vengence.

  • TAFKABO

    You had this chalked up as the IRA long before the first evidence was discovered.

    Excuse me?

    C’mon now. It’s one thing to be overconfident of your own opinion, but when you start telling other people what their opinion is as well…….

    How about we agree that you get to say what you think and I get to say what I think?

  • George

    Bertie,

    why should I believe that the PSNI have got it wrong and Willie Frazer doesn’t associate with loyalist terrorists?

    Willie Fraser condemns loyalist terrorists while also cavorting with them. Would that be so unusual?

    I need more than Frazer saying he doesn’t associate with terrorists I’m afraid. What have the police to gain from saying he does associate with terrorists if he doesn’t?

    It seems more likely to me that Fraser doesn’t consider his associates to be terrorists.

    His moral compass does appear slightly different to mine and the police.

    After all this is man who said Loyalists released from prison under the Good Friday Agreement “should never have been locked up in the first place”.

  • Mick Fealty

    Rory gets a red card for serially ignoring the rules of the house.

  • Stephen Copeland

    What did Rory do? Was it on this thread, cos I don’t remember seeing him here recently.

    I guess he’ll see the colour of the card as being a vindication of his political position. Does it mean that he can never come back? Never ever? Never ever ever?

  • harpo

    ‘A number of the “victims” he champions were loyalist terrorist murderers. There were members of the Gleanne gang amongst the Kingsmill dead – I am NOT justifying the murder of anyone – I am pointing out that they were not all innocent victims as portrayed by Frazer.’

    Kenny:

    If what you say is true, then name names. Which of the Kingsmills dead were members of the Gleanne gang?

    I’ve never heard this claim before. So tell us all about it.

  • Mick Fealty

    About thirty comments back Stephen. It’s not the worst on the thread, but… he can come back in about two weeks…

  • Daisy

    One of the things that annoys me most about Northern Ireland is the fact that non-entities become famous because of sectarian conflict.

    Willie Frazier is just one more insignificant person who has become a household name and who’s opinions are sought as if he’s something special (I could list many more, but we all know who they are). Just look at the number of responses the mention of his name elicits!

    Is it the NI version of the Hello! celeb-for-no-reason mindset?

  • Mick Fealty

    Daisey and others,

    See the commenting guides above.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Mick, you may give another one to Kenny unless he can back up his Glenanne/Kingsmills claim.

    This is the flip side of the nonsense Paisley (and Frazier) said about the Reaveys being Provos.

  • Why do ‘Born Again Christains’ views always strike me to be Anti-Christian?

    They are retro-Christians.

    More attention is paid to Ezekiel, Daniel and Leviticus than the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew. That’s where the right wing political and Israeli connections come in.

    They are also barking mad.

  • TAFKABO

    They are also barking mad.

    All people with religious views are a little mad to some degree or other.

  • All people with religious views are a little mad to some degree or other.

    One out of six Americans believe that the end is in this decade; that Russia will invade and conquer Israel; that the Mosque on Temple Mount will be replaced by the Jewish Holy Temple; and that Jesus will float down through the puffy clouds and vanquish the armies of the Antichrist.

    That’s barking mad with silver balls on it.

    And we have the H Bomb.

    Have a nice day.

  • bertie

    How many US citizens beleive that the US will launch (if that is what you do to them) the H bomb in this decade and are they in charge of it?

    I think that the Kingsmill allegation needs to be withdrawn or backed up!

  • I don’t know if there is room in this nightmare for both of us, bertie-san.

    are they in charge of it?

    Reagan was and Bush is a believer in Dispensationalist Eschatology. It ain’t all our fault Gomer, one of you ‘uns statred it all, John Nelson Darby.

    I think that the Kingsmill allegation needs to be withdrawn or backed up!

    That’s your nightmare, bubba, not mine.

    Carry on.

  • harpo

    ‘Willie Frazier is just one more insignificant person who has become a household name’

    Daisy:

    Not such a big household name though that you remember how to spell it properly!

    ‘One of the things that annoys me most about Northern Ireland is the fact that non-entities become famous because of sectarian conflict.’

    Yeah – imagine the cheek of people daring to become victims of that conflict and complaining about it.

    Tell me this, if you are so annoyed – who would you rather have as famous people? Brainless actors and pop stars?

  • “How did that bundle of money from the Northern Bank robbery end up in the police recreation centre at Newforge Lane?”

    Posted by Fraggle on Jul 19, 2006 @ 09:51 AM

    If we hadn’t heard about it, then id get worried.

  • There are a couple of threads now raging about the legacy of the British Empire.

    What is left undiscovered in all this navel gazing and breast-thumping is that the future is so often crafted by the rats scurrying about the boots of the Giants of Empire. Consider the legacy of one John Nelson Darby, for instance, now that we have another war in the Middle East

    I Want Falwell In My Foxhole.

    Beware gods with a sense of humor.

  • Pounder

    All in all this thread has greatly saddened me. Posters I previously held in high regard despite disagreeing with their position became foaming at the mouth morons just over a few deliberatly inflamitory posts by some irregular dick who surely doesn’t represent the majority views of Unionists. If all Unionists really did support the UDA/UVF or what ever 3 letters takes your fancy the UDP would still exist and the PUP would have more than one token seat. If Rory was temp banned then he shouldn’t be the only one. In fact I woukd suggest changing the format of the site to a php BBS then ofcourse there is alwats the option to ignore any obviously unconstructive attention seekers.

    The fact of the matter is Willie Frazer is an embarassment. In this country I doubt there are very few people who haven’t lost family or friends to “the other side” someway or another. Hate is like coffee, the stronger is it the more bitter it becomes. Yet Frazer revels in his bitterness and blatantly ignore victims from the Nationalist side. Last time i checked the Law Murder was wrong no matter who it was comitted on.