In case you hadn’t noticed…

Drumcree passed off without a fuss this year… 400 marchers turned out of a possible 1,000. The ban on the return walk down the Garvaghy Road, though according to the Irish Times there were not many around, other than the local Portuguese families. Most were at Croke Park, watching Armagh slip past a fiesty and youthful Donegal team in the Ulster Championship. T

  • Aaron_Scullion

    so, if they always have the drumcree parade on the weekend of the Ulster final, and Armagh continue their good form indefinitely – then everyone will be happy! Makes sense to me..

  • Loyalist

    Is it not the case that an increasingly large number of the residents of the Garvaghy Road are non-Northern Ireland born residents? Does this not provide an opportunity for the OO? Perhaps the Portugeuse aren’t a bunch of fascists and are prepared to allow a parade?

  • Henry94

    Perhaps the Portugeuse aren’t a bunch of fascists and are prepared to allow a parade?

    Would the Orange Order agree to talk only to the Portugeuse residents of the Garvaghy Road? I think they should make a statement.

  • Aaron_Scullion

    Loyalist,

    Perhaps the Portugeuse aren’t a bunch of fascists

    Do you actually not understand how terrifying and intimidating orange parades can be?

  • Rory

    Good man, Aaron. You may well have hit on the solution. Keep up that thinking outside the box.

    But Loyalist has the gem of an interesting thought as well. If we increase the Portugese element in Garvaghy Road and then invite a large contingent of Angolans, say, to settle in the loyalist areas we’ll be well on the way to multi-culturalism. Then with a bit of healthy miceganation over the years a Mardi Gras spirit would almost inevitability develop organically of its own accord.

  • Loyalist

    Henry94

    Maybe the Portugeuse have a shred of decency and don’t want to be represented by a convicted bomber/kidnapper. Just a thought. Of course if Portuguese representatives started to make pro-OO comments, how long do you think it would take until they were driven from their homes?

  • Henry94

    Maybe the Portugeuse have a shred of decency and don’t want to be represented by a convicted bomber/kidnapper.

    Oh so you want keep the veto on who would represent them. So no change there. Mad Dog and King Rat would be acceptable of course. Welcome visitors.

  • Loyalist

    Henry

    Mad Dog and King Rat? Sorry have I missed something, when was Billy Wright the District Master of Portadown? When did Johnny Adair become Grand Secretary of the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland? Does Drew Nelson know?

    Wind your neck in sunshine. You know fine well that people like McKenna, the bomber and Rice the Provo were deliberatly selected because they would be totally unaccaptable to the Loyal Orders.

    It’s interesting you don’t address the question about how long it would take for the local bhoys to drive out the Portuguese because they threaten their hegemony on the area.

  • Henry94

    Loyalist

    First the role played by known loyalist terrorists at Drumcree is known and disputing it makes you look silly.

    Second you can’t complain if you refuse to negotiate. Saying you were out-witted is a confession not an accusation.

    It’s interesting you don’t address the question about how long it would take for the local bhoys to drive out the Portuguese because they threaten their hegemony on the area.

    That wasn’t a question. That was just loyalist wishful thinking. When you are as concerned about actually existing sectarian and racist attacks as you are about hypothetical ones you will be taken a bit more seriously.

  • Young Fogey

    invite a large contingent of Angolans, say, to settle in the loyalist areas we’ll be well on the way to multi-culturalism

    Actually, Mozambicans might be a better choice. I’ve always had a soft spot for Mozambique – it’s got a great, laid-back, Afro-Latin hybrid local culture. It also has one of the fastest growing Anglican churches in the world so they could even join the Orange Order.

    Then again, the Anglican Church in Mozambique is both very high church and very influenced by liberation theology so they might not quite fit in with the Portadown Jaffas. Still, it might be fun if the Church of the Annunciation (built, after all, by a tractarian architect) became an Anglo-Catholic sanctum sanctorum and the Oragemen paraded to a (Church of Ireland) pontifical high mass presided over by an African priest?

  • Loyalist

    Young Fogey

    Take your Oxford Movement guff elsewhere! ;-0

  • Loyalist

    Henry

    How can there be negotiation with a group that has one aim? To prevent you from walking down a road.

    BTW, I condemn utterly all racist attacks and am on record on this site as saying so. Your concern about paramilitaries mught be taken more seriously but for the fact that you vote for them.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Loyalist

    How can there be negotiation with a group that has one aim? To march through an area they’re not wanted in.

    Two can play that game…..

  • Why

    The Nationalists of Portadown have made the Portuguese feel very welcome and even helped them erect a statue of “Our Lady of Fatima” not sure how this would fit in with the OO.

  • Stephen Copeland

    Loyalist,

    How can there be negotiation with a group that has one aim? To prevent you from walking down a road.

    You won’t know till you try. However, given the PC’s clearly stated commitment to talking, you would at least earn some brownie points with them.

    My solution (and hopefully eventually the eventual outcome), goes as follows: the OO finally meet and discuss with the GRRC, leading to agreement on a symbolic ‘march’ by the Portadown lodge banner, carried by the office-holders of the Lodge only, back down the Garvaghy Road. There is neither a protest not any attempt to obstruct them. From then on, the OO stops seeking to march down the Garvaghy Road, but returns each year via its outward route.

  • seanniee

    I think the portugese people would be very very bored by the orange order.They have carnivals in portugal which are extremely colourful.
    Unlike like watching dull red faced galoots with silly hats.

  • Rory

    You have completely convinced me, Young Fogey, Mozambiquans it is. I’ll get on to the Mozambique embassy straight away. And of course there is the added bonus of old Portugese links, which even if formerly unhappy are now, since the fall of Salazar, most happy indeed.

  • Young Fogey

    Rory,

    just trying to think outside the box, old chap.

  • Loyalist

    Chris

    Well, there can be amedments made about when music is played, what bands will take part, when flags will be furled and unfurled etc. Are concessions such as this likely to recieve a psoitive response? Doubtful.

  • Prince Eoghan

    Rory, young fogey.

    I think it should be the Brazilians, come on they could then spearhead the new and improved razzle-dazzle samba “orangefest”

    Don’t let them know the central themes of the OO, and please no-one let on to Loyalist the religion of the Portugese, he seems to be enjoying himself.

  • willis

    Interested to note that no-one has yet picked up on a point about Mozambique. It joined the Commonwealth despite never having been ruled by the English.

  • Rory

    Oh, all right then Prince Eoghan, we’ll have Brazilians as well. A few more nuts should settle in nicely (oh dear!). I’m sure Young Fogey will concur and the Portugese connection will expand further.

    So long as we keep out any adherents to the Oxford Movement I am sure Loyalist will go along with it as well. (Sorry, Young Fogey, alas it seems a bright future in sunny Portadown-by-the- Sea is not to be yours. You’ll just have to settle for Frinton.).

  • Canadian

    The Portuguese aren’t a bunch of fascists! I know cuz I’m one.

    I’m not sure how much people know about Portuguese culture but, One of the things we love to do is “parade” and “Festivals”. We celebrate our culture and religion. (which is Roman catholic by the way) sorry to spoil the party for everyone.

    The republicans might not like is the fact that we were once right up there with the English in conquering back in the day.

    The one thing I’m sure both sides can in enjoy from the Portuguese is our food.

    There’s even laws for our Parades

  • Kenny

    Loyalist

    “First the role played by known loyalist terrorists at Drumcree is known and disputing it makes you look silly”.

    Exactly right – Scumbag Billy Wright was a frequent visitor to the first Drumcree dispute – he met with David Trimble and senior OO members – witnessed by respected journalist Peter Taylor and NOT denied by any of those involved.

    Scumbag Adair and his drug dealing “C company” cronies were also frequently in attendance along with LVF members.

    When questioned why the OO does not expel convicted “loyalist” terrorists who are members – the pathetic leadership say it’s a matter for individual lodges. The same reason, presumably, that they allow lodges and bands who celebrate “loyalist” terrorists to participate in their parades.

    In summary – does the OO have convicted loyalist terrorists in its ranks – yes? If it’s a law-abiding organisation dedicated to civil and religious liberty – why doesn’t it expel these convicted terrorists?

    Has the OO consorted with known “loyalist” terrorist leaders – yes? Again, why aren’t members who consort with known terrorists expelled?

    I am a constitutional nationalist – I would like to see a negotiated settlement to Drumcree and I can respect anyone’s point of view – as long as it’s CONSISTENT.

    However, for the OO to claim that it’s got no connection with loyalist terrorists is gross hypocrisy. To use this as an excuse for not negotiating shows that they are really not interested in any sort of negotiated settlement at all.