Jim Dixon: Thoughts On A Multi-Racial Society

Prominent Love Ulster-ite, victim’s campaigner and former Westminster election candidate, Jim Dixon, has articulated what can only be described as some very un-PC opinions in today’s Daily Ireland lead story. Thanks to Fran for highlighting this one.

  • willis

    Well you can’t fault DI for lack of imagination or initiative. I’d love to read it verbatim though!

    willis

  • John

    We fought two world wars and Napoleon for the Right to Free Speech.

  • fran

    “It’s wrong that blacks are coming to Northern Ireland,”

    Very dangerous and racist comments from Jim Dixon.

    Past guest speakers of the Springbok club include former orange order grand master Martin Smyth.

    http://www.nispringbokclub.com/6.html

    Smyth said the following during a debate in the house of commons in 2004

    “The problem came to my attention as the result of an outbreak of racist attacks in a part of my constituency. I investigated the cause of the attacks, because I could not understand why they were happening. In that part of the constituency, people from Africa had lived for years in harmony with their fellow citizens and were involved in various community activities. Then I discovered that a particular house in the area had a regular turnover of women from Africa, who arrived, had their babies, returned to the house and then moved on. They did not help in keeping the place clean and tidy. As a result, others in the community—I do not support them in any way—who had tried to obtain housing themselves, felt that this was a misuse of the property and of the system. The attacks started, and innocent people were affected.”

    So South Belfast racist attacks happened because some ‘dirty blacks’ were using a house in the constituency to have babies and move on.

    Mr Taylor failed to mention that “others in the community” were loyalist paramilitaries, some of who have far right connections.

    If Taylor was happy to speak at a gathering who’s members include Jim Dixon (It’s wrong that blacks are coming to Northern Ireland), could his half.hearted condemnations really be taken seriously.

    Jim Dixon, love ulster, John Taylor, orange ulster.

    Hmmmm……..

  • Jacko

    fran
    Make up your mind, was it Martin Smyth or John Taylor? The former I suspect.

    As for the Jim Dixon remarks: Good God, you couldn’t make it up, could you.
    Basil Fawlty is alive and kicking in Enniskillen

  • GavBelfast

    They are disgraceful remarks, from a man speaking for himself.

    Of course, this is the same Jim Dixon who was also hideously injured in the crude sectarian attack which was the Enniskillen Remembrance Day massacre.

    He was also quoted as saying he preferred to see a SF member elected as MP for Fermanagh rather than a Trimble Unionist, and was relaxed about his role in bringing same about.

    He may have had racist views and interesting thinking on Fermanagh representation when he was merely a number in Enniskillen, but then again ….

  • Immigration is a recipe for trouble. It shouldn’t happen anywhere. Each to their own. Other races should have their own schools, hospitals and buses

    I:

    1.)Respect the man for remaining so active after what he has been through

    2.)Detest the man for what he done in 2001

    3.)Am disgusted by his above statement

    Fair enough he’s had a tough near 20 years but by no way does this justify these blatantly racist remarks. If he has a problem with immigration (which is increasingly becoming a problem in Fermanagh IMO) that does still not give him any right to come out with these hate filled remarks

    -Fermanagh Young Unionist-

  • ID Lottery

    Ultonian Scottis American wrote:

    Fran:
    “If Taylor was happy to speak at a gathering who’s members include Jim Dixon (It’s wrong that blacks are coming to Northern Ireland), could his half.hearted condemnations really be taken seriously.”

    Is a statement like this an ad hominem attack forbidden at Slugger?

  • missfitz

    FYU
    Would you kind enough to tell a little more about why immigration is increasingly becoming a problem in Fermanagh? I would be intrigued to hear your take on this, and why you think that inward movement of people is problematic.
    Thanks
    MF

  • fran

    “Make up your mind, was it Martin Smyth or John Taylor? The former I suspect.”

    apologies, jacko

    Having two conversations at one time.

    It was the former, Martin Smyth.

    Was love ulster champion, Jim Dixon in Dublin last week.

    A lot of blacks about Dublin, you know.

  • Missfitz,

    Now I don’t want this thread to become a basis for the rights and wrongs of immigration, but hear are a few off my views.

    In recent months there has been a influx of Eastern Europeans into Fermanagh (like everywhere else probably).

    Local employers are buying houses on the already pressurised Enniskillen market and then are accomodated in these, often in cramped conditions.

    I personally see it unbeneficial for a company (like Moy Park based in Dungannon)to employ large numbers of these Immigrants. They are paid the minimum wage and then out of say a £200 wage packet a week for them to send £100 back to wherever that means £100 less spent in the local economy.

    Then you have the whole question of racial tolerance, just this week the local paper ran a story of an Asian family being verbally abused, the son was even called Bin Laden, 5 years ago this would have been unheard off in Fermanagh!

    Then you have the issue of crime, at present in Fermanagh there is gang of E.Europeans which people presume to be Lithuanians going around Enniskillen demanding protection money from local family owned businesses! They have also been connected to a spate of local robberies and assaults (before Christmas a group including an uncle off mine where approached while coming out off a Masonic Hall, one member was physically attacked)

    Then in a closer to home incident, 3 weeks ago just up the road from us a local girl was driving home and was seriously hurt for the on coming car (being driven by Latvians) was on the wrong side of the road.

    Now they are just a few examples of my reasons to why I am sceptical of Immigration

  • TAFKABO

    Fermanagh Young Unionist

    I am lost for words.

    Up until now I had considered you a thoughful and intelligent poster, and you come out with this racist drivel?

    I personally see it unbeneficial for a company (like Moy Park based in Dungannon)to employ large numbers of these Immigrants. They are paid the minimum wage and then out of say a £200 wage packet a week for them to send £100 back to wherever that means £100 less spent in the local economy.

    Let’s get a few things clear.
    We live in a free market where people are free to do whatever they want with their money, notwithsatnding your highly dubious claim which presumes people can live on 100 pounds a week.

    Then you have the whole question of racial tolerance, just this week the local paper ran a story of an Asian family being verbally abused, the son was even called Bin Laden, 5 years ago this would have been unheard off in Fermanagh!

    That’s such a bizzare thing to say.You don’t want immigrants because their presenceonly encourages racism?
    that would be funny if it weren’t so serious.

    Then you have the issue of crime, at present in Fermanagh there is gang of E.Europeans which people presume to be Lithuanians going around Enniskillen demanding protection money from local family owned businesses! They have also been connected to a spate of local robberies and assaults (before Christmas a group including an uncle off mine where approached while coming out off a Masonic Hall, one member was physically attacked)

    Sweet jesus, next you’ll be telling us that they are impregnating the women and kidnapping young children for blood sacrifices.
    Can you point to a single official source which would indicate certain groups are more likely to be involved in crime?

    Then in a closer to home incident, 3 weeks ago just up the road from us a local girl was driving home and was seriously hurt for the on coming car (being driven by Latvians) was on the wrong side of the road.

    Ohferfuxsake, Northern Ireland drivers are probably the worst in Europe, but you take one alleged incident involving a non Northern Ireland driver to use as an anti immigration argument?

    Now they are just a few examples of my reasons to why I am sceptical of Immigration

    You could just have said that you were a racist and saved yourself all that typing.

  • Brian Boru

    Dixon seems to be telling Catholics and Blacks that partition and Aparteid were ‘good’ for them respectively. While I condemn that idea, I also think that perhaps partition and Aparteid weren’t that different at all for a long time for Northern Catholics. So perhaps then there is indeed a comparison to be made between the two – if not in the way he intended.

    On Rev.Martin Smyth’s remarks in 2004, I have some sympathy for his point on African’s giving birth in NI and then moving on. There is a reason for this: Southern Irish citizenship law, until January 2005, gave all children Irish and therefore EU citizenship if they were born anywhere on the island. This was a theme in our Citizenship Referendum in June 2004 where we abolished this rule and replaced it with a requirement to have a parent born on the island. So this assertion probably has some validity to it. Births should not be used just to get citizenship – to allow otherwise was an abuse of the process and I am glad we sorted it out.

    On FYU’s points, here in the Republic we know only too well of the problems uncontrolled immigration can bring. There are now around 353,000-400,000 legal immigrants and asylum-seekers down here (how many more are undocumented?) and only 3.8 million or so of us. A lot of them work in shops all over my town, and while most I come across seem nice people, 24% of our road-accident deaths are Eastern Europeans. Apparently, the Baltic states have the worst driving-safety records in Europe. Gardai have criticised the “hard drinking culture” that many young Eastern Europeans – especially from Latvia – are bringing to Ireland. They are used to zero enforcement in their country, so are disinclined to take enough care in Ireland. Then there are the ATM fraudsters. They install skimmers in ATM’s to record you typing in your PIN no. Then they return to the ATM and remove the skimmer, and use it to down your details, before creating a bogus card to steal your cash. The best way of dealing with the latter is to cover the keypad while typing in your PIN no. Then there is the issue of foreign-births. Before 2004 these were 24% of births down here. Don’t know what they are now. But it is a legitimate question as to whether hospitals can cope with this kind of pressure.

    However, these concerns do not justify the kind of inflammatory rhetoric from Dixon. It is important that people are careful with their words to avoid encouraging racist louts in their violence against minorities. Politicians and commentators should be responsible in how they approach the issue, and careful with their words in particular.

    Brian Boru

  • howlon

    FYU:

    I have never lived in any society or heard of one in which businesses aren’t interested in employing people on the cheap. The object of business is to make a profit. Moy Park will confirm that for you.

    You say a young Asian man was called bin laden and this was unheard of five years ago in enniskillen. is this an argument against the person who said that or against the man who was insulted?

    And you’re telling me there’s an east european crime gang operating in enniskillen. not hard to believe. but i grew up in enniskillen, and i can assure you that, for more years than anyone can count, there’s been an east fermanagh crime gang on the loose too. and a west, south and north one too. a few as well from other towns who pop round now and then. if the issue to you is nationality, then i don’t think you understand what the issue is.

    And as for deducting that Latvians drove on the wrong side of the road and crashed head on into someone on purpose – and suggesting this is some kind of sum argument to your racism – is just too wayyyyyy. car accidents are not nice, and surely never done on purpose, or perhaps the racists of fermanagh know different.

    And so anyway, you are sceptical of people from other countries – european countries – in case they ruin this society. fellow europeans who, by misfortune, were on the wrong side of the iron curtain long before they were born. god only knows what you think of people from countries where they have famine.

    I find your views to be ill-informed, offensive, ignorant and rude. I suspect you’re not of many years, and why should you be. But you are smart and you are straightforward. you just need to get the two to meet. i also think you should show more respect for your fellow man. it’s what makes people good. we all just want to get by at the end of the day, whether we have to struggle for it or not.

    and if this sounds really patronising, well… it probably is.

  • I may have missed it but the only thing JD said about “Catholics” here is that they don’t want a UI.

    Some of the things that he says I agree with. The things in this article are not amongst them. I agree that people have to be careful in their words but I would point out (and it is hard not to sound patronising in doing so), not so much what the man has suffered, but the effect much medication may have on our judgements and pronouncements.

  • TAFKABO

    but the effect much medication may have on our judgements and pronouncements.

    There’s a pill that makes you racist?

  • TAFKABO

    Yawnnnnnnnnnnn, should have really expected this sort of reply…

    Up until now I had considered you a thoughful and intelligent poster, and you come out with this racist drivel?

    Racist no, factual yes

    Let’s get a few things clear.
    We live in a free market where people are free to do whatever they want with their money, notwithsatnding your highly dubious claim which presumes people can live on 100 pounds a week.

    Did I say the didn’t deserve jobs… no, my point was the big loser in this ploy by Moy Park to increase their profit is the local economy, why couldn’t they live on £100 a week, housing water etc paid for…

    That’s such a bizzare thing to say.You don’t want immigrants because their presenceonly encourages racism?
    that would be funny if it weren’t so serious.

    In a small town like Enniskillen large numbers are bound to create tension

    Sweet jesus, next you’ll be telling us that they are impregnating the women and kidnapping young children for blood sacrifices.
    Can you point to a single official source which would indicate certain groups are more likely to be involved in crime?

    You know anyone in Fermanagh… ask them, this is nearly talked about as much as the weather now!! (ps that means its a big thing here right now!)

    Ohferfuxsake, Northern Ireland drivers are probably the worst in Europe, but you take one alleged incident involving a non Northern Ireland driver to use as an anti immigration argument?

    Or I could have told you about the E.European woman who was killed 9 miles up the road from me a few months ago for driving on the wrong side of the road…

    You could just have said that you were a racist and saved yourself all that typing.

    As I said I was not going to let this thread sink into one of these gory places discussing immigration. Now I recommend you get off your holy high horse and actually realise that this is wee rural Fermanagh we’re talking about…. not Belfast!

    Brian Boru,
    Now we don’t normally agree (well never actually!) but I am in 100% agreement with you on your points

    Whoever the 01.13 post was from
    (who was it really from?)

    I have never lived in any society or heard of one in which businesses aren’t interested in employing people on the cheap.

    Time to pull the other now methinks…

    You say a young Asian man was called bin laden and this was unheard of five years ago in enniskillen. is this an argument against the person who said that or against the man who was insulted

    I have the greatest sympathy for this family…. I was just pointing out an example of the growing racism in Fermanagh.

    And you’re telling me there’s an east european crime gang operating in enniskillen. not hard to believe. but i grew up in enniskillen, and i can assure you that, for more years than anyone can count, there’s been an east fermanagh crime gang on the loose too. and a west, south and north one too. a few as well from other towns who pop round now and then. if the issue to you is nationality, then i don’t think you understand what the issue is.

    But then again these other crime gangs didn’t have to apply to live here on a visa though did they?

    And as for deducting that Latvians drove on the wrong side of the road and crashed head on into someone on purpose – and suggesting this is some kind of sum argument to your racism – is just too wayyyyyy. car accidents are not nice, and surely never done on purpose, or perhaps the racists of fermanagh know different.

    Yawwnnn, if you must know I was referring to their safety on the roads and their often basic lack of understanding……. ps read above- in a 10 mile stretch of road: 2 drivers on the wrong side of the road, result: 1 dead & 1 severely injured

  • TAFKABO

    medication can affect our judgements including our views on race, politics and the ozone layer.

  • lah dee dah

    Sometimes here it’s impossible to express an opinion without being labelled – usually something derogatory. Jim is expressing an opinion that black S Africans were probably ‘better off’ under apartheid than they are now. Perhaps he’s right! Few of us probably know the true situation well enough to comment.

    The origin of this post is the DI article on Jim Dixon’s remarks. My opinion is that Jim is off the beat on this, but then it’s his opinion. As such his remarks are a penalty kick for the DI and it does little for their reputation to publish the remarks. For me, apartheid should never, and probably never will, return to S Africa.

    In ending i think that with the influx of people to all areas we need to have the debate about immigration’s effects on N. Ireland culture – if only to clear the air and assess the situation.

  • Dualta

    It is good to see the vile undercurrent of racism in Ireland bubbling to the surface in discussions such as this.

    Ever since I was quite young and became aware of racism as a serious problem elsewhere, I understood that our society was deeply racist. We just didn’t have a significant non-white population for that racism to become visable.

    Now that that interface has opened up, the racism in both sides of our community is becoming increasingly evident.

    Now to Dixon’s comments and the revelation that this group exists. Well done Ciaran Barnes, by the way. A great article indeed.

    Here’s an article in the very good, British, anti-facist magazine Searchlight which some of you might find interesting. It’s somewhat dated, and one or two of the electoral predictions proved to be way off, but it has some interesting information nonetheless.

    http://www.searchlightmagazine.com/index.php?link=template&story=38

  • Dualta

    The above post re the Searchlight article is mine.

    Dualta

  • barcas

    Quote from Jim Dixon:

    “Immigration is a recipe for trouble. It shouldn’t happen anywhere. Each to their own. Other races should have their own schools, hospitals and buses.”

    Doesn’t the protestant unionist population in Ireland hale from Scotland originally? I guess that makes them immigrants.

    Just a thought.

    barcas

  • I doubt if anyone of us is actually “pure bred” anything. Apart from the fact of the migration of people from the dawn of time, I suspect that a bit like dogs, monrels are healthier and the purebreds would have sucuumbed to something or other long since.

  • Realist

    Disgusting comments from Mr Dixon.

    Disgusting opportunistic journalism by Daily Ireland (once again).

    In their article about the views of one man, they manage to mention every strand of unionism, thus demonising (again) the people they claim to seek unification with.

    They’re not for “Building An Ireland Of Equals” it seems.

  • Pat Mc Larnon

    ‘Disgusting opportunistic journalism by Daily Ireland (once again).’

    Kill the messenger rather than the message. This is not an opinion piece by the paper or from one of its columnists. They are the views of Mr Dixon.

  • TAFKABO

    Speaking as a unionist, I think the DI were right in highlighting the opinions of this man.
    I also think it is OK to mention who he associates with.
    If someone I associated with expressed those views, I would thank someone else for bringing it to my attention.

    Combatting racism shouldn’t be ussuns against themmuns.

  • Mustapha Mond

    Yawnnn, immigrants: are dirty, steal, are all criminals, work harder than the locals, do damage to the economy etc. All those issues have been blown out of the water numerous times, yet some still cling dearly onto them.

    Thing that bothers me, how come no-one ever says anything about French, Germans or Scots coming over…. yep that is what I think to.

  • The Beach Tree

    TAFKABO

    Normally we disagree. This time I’m 101% with you.

    More broadly this shows something else that is both true and yet unpalatable.

    That being a victim of our troubles does not actually mean you are a worthwhile person, though many are, and even J Dixon probably has his good points and his courage.

    Being a victim doesn’t mean you are a moral person, it just means you’ve been terribly unlucky.

    ‘God sends his rain to fall on the unjust and the just’.

    And perhaps it also highlights the equally unhappy truth that ‘victims’ are in some ways the last people who should be incharge of progress, here or anywhere else.

    Our guts says listen to their pain. But our heads perhaps should advocate caution, lest pain, and anger, and bitterness, and the moral failings of victims themeselves actually blind us to what we have to do.

    To the awful past we owe neither justice, nor revenge, for truly we can give neither, and neither ends the pain; only we owe that we make the future better.

    – The Beach Tree –

  • I din’t disagree with a lot of that last post except that we owe the future justice for the awful past!

  • yerman

    FYU
    “I personally see it unbeneficial for a company (like Moy Park based in Dungannon)to employ large numbers of these Immigrants. They are paid the minimum wage and then out of say a £200 wage packet a week for them to send £100 back to wherever that means £100 less spent in the local economy.”

    Its unbeneficial often for these companies not to employ foreign labour. The managers of firms such as Dungannon Meats have said publicly that their factory would be closed were it not for the immigrant labour. Local people just dont apply for the manual labour jobs which are so often taken up by the immigrant workers. While a few hundred quid might be sent back to the workers families the local economy would be much worse off if they werent there as all of the money from the company would be gone.

  • hovetwo

    In the late 18th century Punch magazine depicted recent migrants to London as knuckle-dragging apes – the migrants were Welsh, hired as navvies to dig the canals of the early industrial revolution. Fast forward a hundred years and almost identical cartoons were drawn, with full simian detail, to depict the Irish, who then occupied the same rung in society.

    The debate about foreigners coming to take our jobs is as old as the hills. Ironically, at the same time that Punch was playing to tribal fears about minorities, religious minorities in Britain were spearheading the Industrial Revolution. Non-conformists, especially Quakers, founded many of the great businesses of the Victorian era. Perversely, because they were excluded by default from the landed Anglican gentry, they were encouraged to “go into trade”, making Britain the super-power of the 19th century.

    The fact that immigrants have the motivation to leave their homes and make their fortune in a foreign land usually makes them a hard-working and highly productive part of society. Any country with sane immigration policies can benefit enormously from their energy and entrepreneurialism. Any society that becomes too fearful of foreigners tends to atrophy.

    In the 19th century a young man from Yorkshire, barely into his twenties, was able to become general manager of a shipyard in Belfast. By the time he was 27 he felt confident enough to buy the shipyard himself, backed by a financier from Liverpool of German-Jewish extraction. The financier ensured his investment by sending his nephew, Mr Woolf, to work alongside Robert Harland. If a Polish or Latvian entrepreneur were to do something similar today I doubt many people would complain, even in rural Fermanagh.

  • Jill Robinson

    Dualta took the words right outta my mouth by saying: “It is good to see the vile undercurrent of racism in Ireland bubbling to the surface in discussions such as this.

    “Ever since I was quite young and became aware of racism as a serious problem elsewhere, I understood that our society was deeply racist. We just didn’t have a significant non-white population for that racism to become visable.”

    My experience too. As a kid I used to cringe when friends and family came out with grossly racist remarks about blacks (the only ones in Dublin at the time were training at the Royal College of Surgeons) and Jews (also very thin on the ground, and are still I believe).

    Where does this stuff emanate? Is it some kind of racial memory? Or were we listening to Enoch Powell (the blacks/asians) and clergymen (“the Jews murdered Jesus.” Yeah, right.)

    The only way to combat this thing is to stand up and be counted. Which is why when anybody in my company/earshot makes a racist remark I ask them to explain himself. They seldom can. It’s knee-jerk stuff most of the time.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Brian Boru:

    Gardai have criticised the “hard drinking culture” that many young Eastern Europeans – especially from Latvia – are bringing to Ireland.

    Because obviously we had no “hard drinking culture” before these nasty immigrants arrived to take our jobs, steal our women and drink our whiskey.

    Paddy Matthews

  • Jill Robinson

    “Because obviously we had no “hard drinking culture” before these nasty immigrants arrived to take our jobs, steal our women and drink our whiskey.”

    LOL.

    “Apparently, the Baltic states have the worst driving-safety records in Europe.”

    I meant to ask. Is it still the case that you can drive in Ireland on a provisional license? I have seen some VERY bad driving on Irish roads.

  • Woof MC Dog

    As a Fermanagh resident I’d just like to say the following:

    1. Good on DI for printing Dixons disgusting views, let the world know who the racists among us are.

    2. Fermanagh Young Unionist, to you I say, I’m bloody glad that my town is increasingly a diverse mix of people. I live near a Fermanagh nightclub and I see every shade of vulgar and unpleasant behaviour every weekend and believe me it aint the immigrants doing it.

    In fact the house opposite me used to be regularly attacked because an asian woman lived there, and now the same is going on because a Latvian guy has moved in.

    3. your thinly veiled racist attitude stinks, did you go to Portora – I remember going to a debate there back in the 80s and being extremely shocked to find how many articulate young well heeled men thought that apartheid was a very good idea.

    Alas it seems nothing much has changed.

  • Brian Boru

    “Because obviously we had no “hard drinking culture” before these nasty immigrants arrived to take our jobs, steal our women and drink our whiskey.

    Paddy Matthews”

    But 24% of road deaths are non-nationals. That indicates a greater problem with drink-driving in the culture of the Eastern Europeans. Just because someone is an immigrant doesn’t make them immune from criticism, any more than being from a host society should make you immune from criticism.

  • darth rumsfeld

    “Doesn’t the protestant unionist population in Ireland hale from Scotland originally? I guess that makes them immigrants.”

    Er ,well the Irish celts had better get back home to Spain then :0). And aksherly, the prods come from England , Wales, Huguenots from France criminal classes from Scotland, many of the latter being from Galloway returning to lands their ancestors vacated for a brief holiday of,oh about two thousand years

    Now, on the thread and FYU’s comments, my contact in the legal fraternity says there is a steady stream of Poles, latvians, lithuanians who are involved in RTAs without insurance, MOT etc, in rust buckets, and often under the influence for precisely the reasons FYU articulates. If you earn £250 per week and send home £150, spend £50 on rent, and need to live on the rest all week, you’ve only got enough to get full with your mates on a friday night,and have a fight. You don’t worry about niceties like drink driving laws or insurance.So is Dixon saying they are responsible for this, or commenting generally that such things shouldn’t happen like FYU? Cos there’s a world of difference between being judgmental and trying to understand how it happens.

    In N Antrim recently 14 Poles were living in 1 terraced house, sharing beds as they worked in shifts under the control of an alleged gangmaster who was allegedly used by the local employers to quell discontent , and who had a cut of their wages to pay for the jobs they had got in lovely Ulster. These workers included graduates, teachers, and one trainee naval officer- intelligent people at the mercy of the Polish mafia. THings are so bad that the oppressed people of Dunloy are even reduced to calling out the PSSNI for help when Polish criminals turn up . Who’d have thunk it? Ulster’s warring tribes come together in peace…er, to keep foreigners out. Ho hum, looks like we’re still scum.

    Darth

  • Jo

    Is there something about Fermanagh air that encourages racist attitudes, perhaps?

    Given history, and indeed the gross injustice of a county where Unionists were and are in a minority, being included in the UK rather than the Free State, one might have expected a little more humility and understanding perhaps?

    Apparently, not so. If you’re in a local minority, the tactic seems to be to attack and slur other, even smaller minorities. Those with different language, perhaps, or a different skin colour. Lovely stuff.

    Any psychiatrist care to comment, perhaps?

  • jone

    I’ve posted this almost in full ‘cos its subs only.

    Killian Doyle; Irish Times 15.02.06

    Is it just me, or is the latest hysteria over immigrants driving on Irish roads deeply offensive?

    Listen to the explanations for why foreign names are appearing in the lists of road deaths with more regularity: “They’re not used to driving on the left side of the road,” or “they’re importing their drinking culture” or, and this is my favourite, “they haven’t the driving skills we Irish do”.

    Condescending guff, isn’t it?

    They can dress it up as concern all they like. We see through it, see that it’s nothing but finger-pointing at a voteless minority designed to deflect from their own shameful failings when it comes to road safety.

    The fact is, of the 40 people who died on our roads in January, ten were non-nationals. Of those, five weren’t driving when they died. In fact, four of them weren’t even in a car at all.

    Three were pedestrians and one was a cyclist hit by a truck, a young Polish woman whose life could probably have been saved had the Government made it law to install mirrors to cover blind spots on trucks. Some chance of that happening.

    The claim that Eastern Europeans have imported their “drink driving culture” over here makes me want to puck someone in the teeth.

    Where do you think you are? Saudi Arabia? Go to any pub with a car park on any night anywhere in Ireland and you’ll see people who are barely compos mentis clambering into cars and driving home with impunity. In a recent survey by the University of Ulster, 50 per cent of young motorists admitted to drink-driving. There’s no reason to believe their contemporaries on this side of the border are any different.

    There were 17,000 people arrested for drink driving before Christmas. Were all 17,000 Poles? Latvians? Lithuanians? Or were they Dubliners, Cavanmen, Corkonians, Mayowomen? Have a guess, do.

    As for the standard of their driving, remember, this is a country where you are allowed to drive home after failing your driving test because you’ve been ruled unfit to drive; a country where you are allowed to drive home after your car fails the NCT because it’s not fit to be on the road; a country where an “ah, sure, it’ll be grand” attitude is the norm.

    And then there’s the argument that immigrants are crashing because they’re not used to Irish roads. There may be some truth in that one.

    For we, despite all the ministerial chest-puffing and feather-fluffing photocalls at the opening of new motorways, still have secondary roads hidden away from the cameras that would challenge the world’s top rally drivers, never mind some tired Moldovan on his way home from a 14-hour shift in a chicken-gutting factory.

  • missfitz

    I’m glad I asked the question and FYU, thank you for your honesty.

    I dont think it helps to pillory anyone for their views, and FYU was open enough to share those views. More importantly, we have widened this out to show how feelings against the outsider is circular and evolves from group to group.

    If the immigrants are allowed to stay here long enough, they will assimilate and bring the richness of their culture and allow it to merge with ours.

    Lets not get coy about our feelings towards outside races. Fine if they are staying for the fortnight, an entirely different issues if they stay beyond their welcome.

    The danger would be that after 200 years, we would still be remembering and recalling that the Eastern Europeans were not indigenous people. We might end up with a situation where we wanted to restrict their rights or limit their freedom of expression.

    It would be a terrible shame if in 2200 the Eastern Europeans were not allowed to march down O’Connell Street to express their identity……..

  • missfitz

    okay, I am mustapha 2 from 1018.
    missfitz

  • BogExile

    ‘…your thinly veiled racist attitude stinks, did you go to Portora – I remember going to a debate there back in the 80s and being extremely shocked to find how many articulate young well heeled men thought that apartheid was a very good.’

    Woof:

    1. I went to Portora in the 80’s
    2. There was racism at Portora
    3. Not all Portorans are racists

    Prior to the Anglo-Irish agreement, in Royal schools like Portora and elsewhere in Protestant grammar schools there was a clear sense that we were being educated to be on top and in charge. This was despite a small minority of good and thoughtful teachers who were champions of diversity in a very hostile environment.

    This was fertile ground for the sort of mindset which if left unchallenged results in the racism you allude to. I have no sense that youngsters being educated in Portora today are lacking for experiences and teaching which emphasises respect for difference and culture.

    4. Imagine the benefit if we were able to exchange about 200,000 of our spides for the same number of, say, Kosovars or Kurds who would almost die to find a place in a society so many of the (white anglo-saxon) munters in our midst treat with contempt. Is this reverse racism?:)

    BogExile – neither here nor there.

  • TAFKABO

    But 24% of road deaths are non-nationals.

    The trouble with these types of discussions is that we often get these totally meaningless statements.

    24% of what exactly?

    Where do the figures come from, how large and area do they cover and what timescale is the statistic covering?

    When you have answered all those questions I’d like to know how you can determine with such conviction that the deaths of all non nationals are soley the fault of the persons killed.

  • woof mcdog

    Bog Exile wrote: I have no sense that youngsters being educated in Portora today are lacking for experiences and teaching which emphasises respect for difference and culture.

    -I would really like to say you are right, and I imagine teaching in both protestant and catholic schools has come some way, but, I know from using public transport in Fermanagh and hearing what comes out of some of the kids mouths that theres a way to go yet.

    I still hear sectarian langauge on the buses and recently even heard some kids in grammar school uniforms use the word “Pole” as a perjorative – It made me feel ill.

    I have to say however that the amount of mixing between kids from all the different Fermanagh schools is much more common now than when we were at school. Thank god for that changes.

    As for your idea of bringing 200,000 Kosovars in – great idea, I wonder how the dreary spires of Enniskillen would cope with a minaret close by!.

    That would really give Mr Dixon something to worry about. (And on reflection, I just feel sorry for the man – I am however a bit shocked at the Springbok club saying it has members from all the unionist parties)

    Th real Woof McDOg

  • I have no wish to get into a prolonged debate with you all, but permit me please to briefly make a few points which hopefully will be of help.

    John Taylor has never addressed the Springbok Club. And never will either.

    Rev Smyth has addressed a meeting of the Northern Ireland Springbok Club. In his talk, he strongly denounced both racism and the past mistakes of the British Empire. The members of our club wholeheartedly and unanimously agreed with his comments.

    In addition I would refer you all to my official statement of clarification which was printed in full in the letters column of Daily ireland, 06.03.06. Its text was as follows:

    “Permit me please to clarify the official position of the ‘Northern Ireland Springbok Club’ with regard to apartheid and related matters.

    Within the ‘Northern Ireland Springbok Club’, as is the case throughout the black and white communities of South Africa themselves, you will find a variety of views on the issue of apartheid.

    We are not a ‘white rule’ club. Our vision for the future of South Africa is to see a multi-racial, Conservative, Judeo-Christian, pro-freedom, Atlanticist party (or coalition of parties) replace the present day Marxist ANC government. We do not campaign for a return to apartheid. Whilst we are not affiliated to any single political party in South Africa, the parties with whom we would have most in common are the African Christian Democratic Party, United Christian Democratic Party, Inkatha Freedom Party and Freedom Front Plus – most of whom are multi-racial and overwhelmingly non-white.

    As an organization, we are multi-racial. Anyone, of whatever race, who agrees with our aims and objectives, is free to join.

    We are ‘neo-imperialist’, not ‘old imperialist’. We only wish to restore those things that were good about the Empire, and them alone. We want to see a peaceful, multi-racial partnership that will spread freedom and conservative values right around the world.”

    By all means attack us, but please attack us for something we actually stand for.

    A trip to our local Northern Ireland Springbok Club web site at http://www.nispringbokclub.com has an extensive section on who we are and what we stand for. Thank you.

  • So why then is the NI Springbok Club described by the main (London) Springbok Club as its “NI Branch”? When the London-based Springbok Club was set up, founder Alan Harvey (a former National Front activist, BTW) stated that:

    In a nutshell our policy can be summed up in one sentence: “We want our countries back, and believe this can now only come about by the re-establishment of civilised European rule throughout the African continent.”

    Not much “neo” about that.