Blackmen return to Donegal in peace…

Before it passed unremarked about, the last of the summer’s big Orange Loyal Order marches, took place on Saturday without any significant disruptions, (apart from the Armagh/East Tyrone demonstration) of the Royal Black Preceptories. The ‘Blackmen’s’ Parade in Donegal, the first since the 1930s passed peacefully in Raphoe. Maybe some of them spent the rest of the weekend chilling at the Fleadh Ceoil up the road in Letterkenny?

  • Biffo

    Denny Boy

    Thanks for that – cacc, keek, cacare – fascinating stuff indeed.

    I wonder – how far does this go back – what’s the Sanskrit for shit?

    I also like that phrase – “to go to stool”.

  • cladycowboy

    darthrumsfeld

    ‘What you want is nice little ethnic communities with “not a Prod about the place”- or only those who know their place. have you ever thought how much your thought processes are like the morons torching chapels in Ballymena?’

    Well if we follow logically from the first sentence surely you should know whether i have or haven’t thought about the second sentence, as it seems you can see my inner eye.

    1. I would think my thought processes were like the morons torching chapels in Ballymena if i was thinking of torching Protestant churches in Clady. I don’t have these thought processes so no i have no comparison with these people, but you’d know that already obviously, being my personal mind-reader.
    2. I think the AOH is the only comparable body to the OO so please leave the GAA at the red herring stall. I’d rather for the interests of the public peace that minimal if any of these organisations parades were allowed in areas were people took offence to it.

    ‘If Portadown people want to hold a procession in Portadown that isn’t by it’s nature illegal -i.e. inciting hatred or supporting paramilitarism, what business is it of a majority of part of that area to prevent it? if they don’t like it protest peacefully. If you want to commemorate Pearse the Paedophile up the Shankill, go ahead. if the locals object, let them do to peacefully’

    Here you start of in an admirable mood of tolerance, as voiced earlier by fair_deal. However, a sentence later and you’ve taken offence at the very thought of this parade by slandering one of the leaders of the rising. If you utter this at the mere thought of the parade, how long do you think this peaceful protest of Shankill residents,(while Tricolours fly, Republican songs and Catholic Hymns are sung, banners bearing Pearse’s image are held aloft and at the back you spot a few sectarian catholics shipped in from Glasgow mouthing ‘PIRA’ silently to the protesters) will remain so before someone shouts ‘Pearse the Paedo’ and public peace is lost and disturbances ensue which will be remembered for the next march up the Shankill and tensions are raised even higher and the domino effect snowballs?
    I would say 100% guarantee of this and so suggest you re-think the parades issue, if you do think that is.

    fair_deal

    I like to believe i have a bit of faith in the goodness of human nature but you are displaying more faith in it than i can about tolerance of certain parades on either side. I need only point you to darthrumsfeld who has professed to be as tolerant as you do over parades then utters something that would cause public unrest in the very same paragraph. This is why i object to these parades, nothing else.

  • fair_deal

    Biffo

    “That’s incorrect. Ulster Scots is an offshoot of west-central scots”

    Please do read the posts if you look at my 11.56 post you will see I spotted my error and corrected it immediately

    lib2016

    “compromise the rights of one community”

    No rights are compromised by a public procession. A public procession is actually the exercise of a number of rights. The claim of a clash of rights is a myth. Any claims of clashes have been addressed by human rights case law.

  • Denny Boy

    Biffo

    “I wonder – how far does this go back – what’s the Sanskrit for shit?”

    Some folks think that’s where “khaki” comes from: earth- or shit-coloured.

    “I also like that phrase – “to go to stool”.”

    Me too. I’m glad you didn’t use the phrase “ad cathedra” where Pope was concerned :0)

    BTW This is more fun than ad nauseam talk about Blackmen and their silly parades….

  • darthrumsfeld

    cladycowboy

    I’m not your personal mind reader- too small to keep me occupied, I fear – but I can clearly see that you won’t extend tolerance to a group which exercises its culture in a way it chooses, which obviously inconveniences many other people for a short time. You know , the way GAA matches inconvenience the residents of the streets around Croke Park, but most people will thole, although they grumble. Or indeed Windsor Park for that matter, before you get all touchy about the GAA.

    I don’t presume to tell the GAA it’s not welcome in my town, even though I don’t identify with its ethos, I’m inconvenienced by the traffic illegally parked in the street during matches, and I’m not wild about some of the drunken urinating after the bhoys leave the clubhouse at two in the morning with a few lusty rebel ballads to waken the locals. Of course I could just say that I speak for the host community,and our permission was never asked for this offensive behaviour, and I could form a residents’ group with a few of my mates,and we could have a great time protesting at the public’s expense (literally).

    Cos it’s really inconvenient having them about, so it is.

    As you might say- Why would they want to play a stupid game on Sunday when there’s proper football on Sky, and they get about three spectators? But then I think “Hey, if they wanna do it, what’s it to do with me? I’ll just take another road and avoid the traffic. I could hear just as much noise if I lived beside the pub at chucking out time. I’ll even grit my teeth when they stick up a tricolour on their wobbly flag pole and crank up the gramaphone for a reedy recording of the Soldier’s Song on the rare occassions they get a bigger game.

    Tolerance is such a bugger.

    I’ll bet there’s even some English people who wouldn’t want you- a British citizen indeed- living in “their” country, and I’ll bet you’ve even dared to express your Irish identity when you’re there- at Finsbury Park for the party, or on Paddy’s Day, or in a bar in Kilburn watching the All ireland on satellite. To which your average Cockney ( if such exists) might reasonably opine ” If you want to be Irish, do it in Ireland , mate”, and you – applying the logic of your post impeccably, would undoubtedly retort ” You’re quite right, me old china. I realise the manner in which I express my culture is confusing and irritating to you, and I will suspend it forthwith.Lawks a mercy guv maaybe it’s becos I’m a Londoner , innit?”

    BTW- I’ve read Pearse’s poetry- have you?. Even if he chooses to come back from the dead and sue me, I’ll take my chances. That was one warped mind.

  • cladycowboy

    darthrumsfeld

    ”I’m not your personal mind reader- too small to keep me occupied, I fear – but I can clearly see that you won’t extend tolerance to a group which exercises its culture in a way it chooses, which obviously inconveniences many other people for a short time. You know , the way GAA matches inconvenience the residents of the streets around Croke Park, but most people will thole, although they grumble. Or indeed Windsor Park for that matter, before you get all touchy about the GAA.”

    As you’re discussing the GAA i’ll take your playing of the man instead of the ball on the shoulder, rather like Sean Cavanagh in full stride would take a shoulder from Gooch Cooper. I made the mind-reader remark as you did infer that i had a certain train of mind when i never stated such a thing. As for things being too small to occupy, it hasn’t stopped HMG occupying our wee country 😉

    Now despite my protestations about GAA not being comparable to OO, that it could only be AOH, you’ve picked the ball up (illegally, get your toe under it first) and ran and ran with it like Feirste O’Gump. I’ll have to pull you up for travelling i’m afraid, but hey with that red herring GAA, you’ve cooked up a dish that would make Rick Stein weep into his chowder, delicious. Now if we may put the GAA to the sea-bed…

    ”I don’t presume to tell the GAA it’s not welcome in my town, even though I don’t identify with its ethos, I’m inconvenienced by the traffic illegally parked in the street during matches”

    Not quite sure what you’re getting at here. Are you suggesting that all public events should be scrapped as traffic and population travel inconveniences you? No more visitors to Giants Causeway, Opera at the Waterfront, Rugby at Ravenhill, people commuting to work or The Fermanagh branch of Scientology joining up with the Belfast members for a conference, is that what you mean, a sort of Love Ulster but in your own parish?

    ”As you might say- Why would they want to play a stupid game on Sunday when there’s proper football on Sky, and they get about three spectators”

    Yet more incomparable rants. Those 3 spectators, or 65,000 on Sunday, actually travel and hand over cash to see this event. They want it. The people that object to OO/AOH marches past their doors don’t want these events. See the difference. These marchers keep coming, just like the guy who keeps trying to flog you tea-towels or dodgy fish, but still the people don’t want them. Tell you what, as Croke park is going to be opened soon to other sports etc, why don’t the OO/AOH hold parades around the pitch, you’d get 80,000 viewers to watch the thing, knowing that all of them have come and want to see the parade would undoubtedly lift the Orange/Green marchers and make it the best march yet, give Keith M a dilemma over whether to object to it.

    As to the implication that Londoners would find my expression of identity offensive, i’d have to refute this other than a few morons who have took offence at my accent, hardly a provocative expression of identity. I have been to the Fleadh, again i paid to get into a park hired for the sole purpose of this Irish festival, no-one inside it could with any sanity complain of taking offense to it. See the theme of set-aside space here? I’ve never attended the St. Patrick parade but one thing is for sure i would not take part in a republican parade with a ‘Fuck the Queen’ band through the streets of Eltham, there is a few Irish there but i think the majority would take murderous offence to this. Overall, because i haven’t provoked English Londoners, i’ve had little trouble from them and my Irish identity. Btw, do you think if the OO marched in London, the same Londoners would tell them to ‘fack awf’ back to Belfast?

    In conclusion, the OO/AOH offend various citizens as both, in my view correctly, are seen as sectarian organisations and there is direct conflict between the right to parade and the right to live free from sectarian agitation. I’d point you to the Police officer in charge of Agoghill who stated that sectarian attacks rise during the marching season. Linkage, real not imagined.

    As regards to tolerance. Yourself and fair_deal state that you are tolerant because you only grit your teeth at the sound of the Irish National anthemn and f_d because he’d only hold a peaceful protest at a Republican parade by his house.
    I’d suggest that this is not real tolerance. Its tolerance of a sort, tolerance of the law. If you weren’t tolerant of the law, who knows, you may smash that gramophone and f_d may try and block the parade. Real tolerance would be in evidence if you could listen to the Irish anthemn and not feel angry and if fair_deal could let the Republican parade go by and not go to the effort of protesting (how is protesting against something tolerant?). When you two can do that, come back to me and we can go through the parades again, until then no pope-kicking feet on Garvaghy streets and no wee boys blowing Pearse’s whistle up the Shankill.
    Go raibh maith agat

  • Denny Boy

    As a matter of interest, how many parades are held by the AOH in NI each year? I have never seen one anywhere, north or south.

    How do the numbers compare with those held by loyal brethren?