The new "us'uns"…

REPUBLICANS have been exploring the possibility of tapping into the growing foreign worker vote in order to strengthen their political position, the News Letter has reported. Sinn Fein MLA for Newry and Armagh, Davy Hyland, said: “There certainly are large numbers of them here in Newry. I passed a house recently where about 50 were having a party and, as they are mostly Catholic, they are more sympathetic to the nationalist outlook.” Who says republicans can’t be prejudiced?!

  • Bob Wilson

    Thank God for a political thread!
    This article says in all
    1.- a nationalist that reveals his parochial sectarianism
    Frankly I suspect that most migrant workers dont vote in their host country e.g. in GB or down South because they don’t feel qualified to comment – this would be especially so in what passes for politics in NI. Overall – over time I suspect they would marginally favour the status quo but their primary interest in exploiting (in the the nicest sense) their EU citizenship
    2. a unionist (Deputy Leader?) who doesnt even understand that the Poles, Portugese, Hungarians, Czechs (to name the ones I personally know of) dont need ‘permits’

  • The Beach Tree

    Davy should have kept his moth shut!

    what’s the old saying – better be silent and be thought a fool, than open your mouth and confirm it.

    I have little doubt that catholic migrants in Northern Ireland would find the more bigotted fringes of political unionism (“the God and Ulster/Pope’s an antichrist” types)abhorent to their individual faiths, or that they may assimilate into Catholic areas more easily through shared faith and community events (Weekly mass, catholic schools, etc.). To have said something like that would possibly have been mischieveous, but statisticially accurate.

    The idea that this would give these new communities a set opinion on the union and the border is barmy, however.

    I would however say that for all the underlying bigotry of the phraseology Davy used (and he’s intelligent enough to know better) one has to ask, who’s more likely to appeal to these new voters?

    1. One party with some dodgy sterotypes that say “you’re just like us! join us! your welcome!” ;or
    2. Another party with some dodgy stereotypes that says “Who are you? You’re part of them’uns! Where’s your work permit?” (with the clear inference from the final one being an implicit (and as rightly noted above, nonsensicle) threat of deportation if heads are not ‘kept down’).

    SF will not win their votes with a vision of Erin Uber Alles. They might win them simply by being welcoming and interested in them, rather than suspicious and distrustful.

    Food for thought.

  • Jo

    Poles may be mostly Catholic, but they’re mostly all hard working as well.

    Not optimal SF voter material, I would have thought 😉

  • slug

    The Poles I know (a fairly small sample) tend to be very keen on free market principles – is my sample representative?

  • Brendan

    Jo:

    “Poles may be mostly Catholic, but they’re mostly all hard working as well.

    Not optimal SF voter material, I would have thought ;)”

    That is an egregious slur on anyone who votes Sinn Fein and reminiscent of the slander that Catholics don’t have a work ethic! I don’t vote Sinn Fein but I know of alot of people who do and none of them could be caricatured in the manner which you have portrayed, whether tongue in cheek or not!

  • fair_deal

    I can understand why any party wishes to increase its base but a statement like this one is just plain stupid. There have been enough problems in tackling racist attacks without giving neandarthals the added bonus of sectarianism (they shouldn’t be here and anyway they back them’uns).

    The general reserach to date is that minority ethnic groups in Northern ireland tend to adopt the values and attitudes of the broader community within which they live and so far a higher proportion has lived in unionist communities or their kids went to Protestant state schools so they tended to adopt those values. However, the voter registraion and voting rate is low (my own personal estimation is that the Chinese community in South Belfast has the potential of half an assembly quota – not to be sneezed at (presuming they want to have a common community view on politics.)

  • reality check

    Given the fact most immigrants have been attacked by loyalists this could be a vote winner for sinn fein

  • Kelvin Doherty

    Most of the migrant workers that i’ve met don’t give a toss about politics in this part of the world. To suggest that they would ally themselves on the basis of religion to SF is bonkers.

  • Jo

    Well its not as egregious as believing that Eastern Europeans would be likely voters on the basis on their adherence to the same religious faith as all SF voters.

    I think Polish Catholics might have problems with child killers like Sean Kelly – its just some of the Irish Catholic ones that don’t.

  • slug

    “I passed a house recently where about 50 were having a party and, as they are mostly Catholic, they are more sympathetic to the nationalist outlook.

    “There is definitely a slow-down in the growth of the nationalist population and every vote will count in future, for example, in a border referendum.”

    I love these quotes – NI reductivism at its most succinct! Mind you it is one of the first times I have heard a SF pol accept that the growth of the nationalist vite is now slowing down.

  • Brendan

    Kelvin, I agree with you. I would say that migrant workers, like all unionist and a lot of catholics, are going to have to be sold the idea of a united Ireland on the basis of economics and politics etc

  • middle-class taig

    What is Davy thinking of?

    Migrant workers SHOULD be voting SF because they’re the most effective and engaged advocates for low paid workers and those suffering discrimination and inequality. They should not be voting SF because they’re left-footers. Should orthodox or muslim immigrants find SF’s message less attractive?

    One of my mates, who was taught history by Hyland at school in the 80s, says he was thoughtful, objective and non-tribal. Report for this term: must try harder.

  • Baluba

    MCT takes this statement as it should be taken. I doubt very much that Hyland was speaking on sectarian terms himself, merely alluding to the fact that someone who was Catholic from whatever country, if they were to vote, would not likely vote for an anti-catholic party like the DUP. (Go, someone deny that they’re anti-catholic!)

    Sinn Féin, as far as I know, are not a Catholic party. Indeed, many of their activists that I know are atheists and fiercely critical of organised religion in general.

    They are socialist. That is why a migrant worker might be attracted to them, because they have policies that would be more favourable to them.

    UUP, DUP, Alliance, SDLP are all right of the middle to varying degrees in social policy etc therefore, I would suggest, less likely to attract the vote of a migrant worker.

    He phrased it badly granted, but thank goodness there’s always a unionist waiting in the wings to say something even stupider. 😉

    Those dodgy migrants are probably here illegally anyway the non-English-speaking, dark dogs! (Tongue in cheek)

  • jocky

    Like most migrant workers will they not be too busy working to give a monkeys about local politics?

    If anything, would these immigrants not be put of by SF’s lack of enthusiasm for the EU?

  • fair_deal

    Baluba

    Nice try to spin the way out of this one but the statement basically read as they are our co-religionists they will think like us (Their different national origins, values and experiences are irrelevant the common religion will be the determining factor).

    “UUP, DUP, Alliance, SDLP are all right of the middle to varying degrees in social policy etc therefore, I would suggest, less likely to attract the vote of a migrant worker.”

    Why do you assume migrant workers have one view of politics?

    “Sinn Féin, as far as I know, are not a Catholic party”

    Yet if there is a pattern of sectarian attacks affecting both communities they produce a report presenting only the Catholic communities as victims.

    “They are socialist”

    So that is why they supported and implemented PFI.

    (Sorry I have been well-behanved on here lately and just couldn’t resist a troll.)

  • Kelvin Doherty

    SF may claim to be a socialist party but some of their policies, such abortion, clearly pander to religious doctrines. Is this truly socialist?

  • middle-class taig

    Kelvin

    You have to be pro-choice to be a socialist?

    Away and *****!

  • slug

    I take it that SF are pro-choice?

  • Baluba

    In fairness, Fair_Deal, if you look at SF’s recent dossier on attacks it does include Protestant and other victims, not just catholics.

    I also don’t assume that migrant workers will be socialist, but I do assume that migrant workers will be attracted to policies that are pro-migrant worker.

    I agree that SF’s socialism is a watered-down affair. It’s one of my main problems with them. No argument here. They are however the least right-wing (viable) option to a lefty like me.

    Kelvin. Abortion has nothing to do with socialism.

  • Baluba

    Let me clarify before I am lept upon.

    I am an atheist and a socialist, however, I do not agree with wholesale legalised abortion. I believe it is necessary in extreme cases, but these cases are in the extreme minority. Abortion as belated contraception is a terrible practise.

    Sorry for getting away from the point, but what I mean is to be a socialist, you do not have to be pro-abortion at all.

    I agree that SF’s socialism is flawed.

  • fair_deal

    Baluba

    It does indeed include a list of loyalist paramilitary activities were Protestants and others were the victims. However, my point remains it does not include sectarian attacks upon Protestants perpetrated during the period of their report.

  • Baluba

    Was the title of the report not ‘Unionist Violence’ or something to that effect?

    Including nationalist on unionist violence would hardly fit under that title would it?

  • Baluba

    I did a wee experiment there. If you put the follow (very odd) phrase into Google, you will find plenty of SF condemnation for violence against Protestants.

    Sinn Féin condemns ardoyne

  • Kelvin Doherty

    ” abortion has nothing to do with socialism “

    Yes it does if a political party claims to be socialist and has a policy on it.

  • fair_deal

    Baluba

    You are doing some mighty fine ducking and diving.
    1. So the culture of violence is dealt with by blaming it all on one community? The sectarianism and racism in our society is dealt with by blaming it all on one community? If it wants to seriously highlight sectarianism and racism should it not highlight all of them.
    2. SF lists a significant number and spread of incidents and argues this shows it is orchestrated. There have been a significant number and spread of incidents against Protestants but they choose silence on this, I think it is legitimate to ask why?
    3. This time they have yes (pity they couldn;t do the same over the anti-protestant hate displayed on the Tour of the North parade and on 12th July) and that is very welcome. Although there is fuzzy logic at work. The present series of attacks in Ardoyne were initiated by nationalists and a tit-for-tat pattern immediately developed with loyalists attacking too. Yet they say the solution lies with Unionist politicians talking to loyalist paramilitaries (I can understand from the political culture of nationalism why they think that might work but that’s not how the Unionist community works). Is there nothing to be done on the nationalist side and the attacks that have emanated from that community? Does this statement have implications on were the blames lies? This non-inclusion seems to border on denial.
    4. The main Unionist party hasn’t be behind the door on condemnation either e.g
    Ian paisley jnr
    “We have condemned unequivocally this most recent wave of attacks and we ask anyone with information about the attacks to forward it to the police and help ensure that the perpetrators are brought to justice,” the North Antrim MLA said.
    North Belfast DUP MP Nigel Dodds said he was disgusted by the attacks.
    “The very elderly, the sick and disabled and even young children, have all been the target over recent days of a series of vicious attacks on homes across north Belfast,” he said.
    “It is essential that those who have instigated this violence for no good reason should stop their campaign of destruction.

  • slug

    Is Sinn Fein pro-choice?

  • Fraggle

    and yet Mr Poots of the DUP wants the loyalist paramlitaries to go back to what they’re good at.

    What were the LPs good at fair_deal?

  • fair_deal

    Fraggle

    From my experince what most of them are best at is getting pissed in pubs and clubs boasting about what great hard-men they are, their latest holiday and big car etc etc

    What Mr poots had to say about loyalist paramilitarism

    Loyalist Paramilitaries claim to exist because of the Republican threat against their community but the reality is that people in the Loyalist community are living in fear not from their traditional enemy but from people within their own community.

    The ongoing feud within elements of Loyalism is causing huge damage and demoralising the unionist community. For decades Republicans have attacked and killed thousands of Protestants but today there is a clear reality that Protestants could be attacked by so-called Loyalists as well as Republicans. The murder of four Protestants, by these so-called Loyalists, has caused dismay and has totally demoralised the Protestant community. These people who are perpetrating misery upon the Protestant community are in fact carrying out the work of the IRA. Why does the IRA need to continue their campaign of terrorism when so-called Loyalists will do the job for them? The current campaign is not about defending Ulster it has more to do with protection money, extortion and drug dealing.
    Whilst the IRA are using their guns to squeeze concession after concession out of the British Government Loyalists have turned their guns on themselves and have turned to criminality, extortion and drug dealing.
    As a public representative I appeal to these so-called Loyalists, who are oppressing the Protestant community, to get off the backs of your own people. Instead get involved in restoring normality to deprived Protestant areas and divert your energy to setting up programmes that will provide a better future for your children.”

  • mickhall

    A woman’s right to choose what happens within her own body should be an issue for all socialists as it is the most basic of human rights. Of course some socialists may feel uncomfortable with abortion, I am one of them. Never the less a woman’s right to choose supersedes my prejudices on this matter.

    Full marks to SF for realizing the importance of the votes of newcomers. Far from not being interested in the politics of their new homeland, history has taught us the reverse is true, the more so if they come from countries that oppressed their people. In the main new immigrants vote for the left, for obvious reasons,[to me] Hardly surprising if we look at the policies of the right towards them. Religion to date has played little role in how they vote, although the irish have been some what partial to voting this way in England and the US, although less so these days than in the past.

  • Kelvin Doherty

    mickhall

    100%

    Abortion is a socialist issue since it affects women on an economic level( amongst others). Women from working class areas usually have less opportunities, more pressures, lower educational achievment etc. They have less access to counselling or support before or after termination. You cannot debate or give an analysis on abortion without refering to oppression and self determination, concepts which socialism was built on.

  • Baluba

    Of course socialists have a view on abortion. It is not however, informed by their socialism.

    Abortion is not solely about ‘what happens in a woman’s body’ either.

    Socialism is a system of social organisation by which the means of producing and sitributing wealth is controlled collectively or by a centralised government representative of and for the proletariat. It is not a system of morals or a doctrine that informs such debates as the abortion debate.

    Socialists disagree about such emotive issues as much as everyone else.

  • Dave

    If SF/IRA were to gain the support and votes of the “migrant workers” and secure a united Ireland? What happens after this historical event, would “migrant” workers” still be sought after voters?

    I think these hard working people want to remember SF/IRA slogan (Brits Out) how long before they change the slogsn to (Polish Out).

    It’s only my opinion, I’m sure those SF/IRA would have a great time taking care of the Poles Catholic or not.

    Reminds we of Gibraltar for some reason? The population on the Rock is 98% Catholic but 100% British, funny old World ain’t it?

    Being a Catholic does not equate to being Irish or a Republican as SF/IRA will no doubt find out come election time.

  • Keith M

    You’d have to go a long way to surpass the sheer upmitigated chutzpah of SF/IRA if they are targetting migrants from Eastern Europe. For decades these people lived (perhaps survived is a better word)under a repressive marxist regime which denied them the most basic human rights (like the right to travel abroad). I just wonder if SF/IRA really think that the Poles, Lithuanians, Latvians etc here are queuing up to have a taste of “the good old days” in Ireland?

    I wonder how well they advertise their connections with the Castro regime in Cuba?

  • middle-class taig

    mickhall

    “A woman’s right to choose what happens within her own body should be an issue for all socialists as it is the most basic of human rights.”

    No, the most basic human right is the right to life, which is denied an aborted child. No socialist worthy of the name disregards that fact.

  • Jo

    A little 1930s-40s history lesson also might widen a few Polish eyes when they learn that the antecedents of SF’s brothers and sisters in arms sympathised with the Nazis….anyone suspect THAT the doorstep history might be a little selective about that period?

  • slug

    What is SF’s policy on the woman’s right to choose?

  • lib2016

    A little 1930s-40s history lesson might open a few Polish eyes when they learn that republicans are proud of their ancestors who went off to fight for the Spanish Republic while the British aristocracy and their colonial fellowtravellers in NI largely sympathised with and collaborated in the growth of facism.

  • cladycowboy

    Dave,

    ‘I think these hard working people want to remember SF/IRA slogan (Brits Out) how long before they change the slogsn to (Polish Out).’

    Why has no-one told me that the Polish army has invaded us?
    Think you’ll find that ‘SF/Derry horticultural society’ are the party most vocal in their support for migrant worker rights and anti-racism. They’d be the last party in our fair society to utter ‘polish out’

  • Tom Griffin

    It’s woth rememebering that the Poles have got their own cross to bear in terms of the 1930s/40s, their part in the German occupation of Czechoslovakia.

  • TAFKABO

    Perhaps we ought to ask Andre Shoukri about those from a different ethnic background, and their likely voting patterns?

  • Crow

    The answer may be even more interesting if posed to Alfredo Scappaticci.

  • Tochais Síoraí

    No doubt Eamon De Valera and Edward Carson(i) would have interesting views as well!

  • Jo

    Richard English is quite good on those Republicans who fought for Spain against Franco AND those who opted to back the Nazis – morality doesn’t really matter, does it, “my enemy’s enemy MUST be my friend”, even, it appears, if he pursues genocide.

    Perhaps they were 1930s eco-tourists, studying the flora/fauna of the Iberian peninsula? 😉

  • Macswiney

    Jo,

    Maybe you should have a listen to ‘La Quinta Brigada’ by Christy Mooore as a very basic starter for your less than competent understanding of Irish involvement in The Spanish Civil War. There were many brave and honourable Irish Republicans who fought against the rising fascist tide particularly in Northern Spain. Within our community they are honoured and not forgotten.

  • fair_deal

    Macswiney

    “Within our community they are honoured and not forgotten.”

    Whatever Christy Moore sings it looks like the republican leadership is keener on commemorating the republican leaders who were pro-Nazi. The mantle of anti-Nazism and anti-facism lies more with the 43,000 who volunteered to serve in the Allied forces.

    SINN FEIN’S Dublin candidate in next year’s European elections spoke alongside a leading IRA figure and convicted bomber at a republican commemoration last week for the Nazi collaborator and IRA Chief of Staff, Sean Russell.
    Russell died of a perforated ulcer while being transported back to Ireland on a German U Boat in 1940.
    He was notorious for his expression during the war that: “England’s difficulty is Ireland’s opportunity.”
    At the time Russell was in Germany, the Nazis were fully engaged in their efforts to ensure the extermination of the Jewish people and had established the death camps in which six million Jews were murdered. Russell had gone to Germany to encourage a Nazi invasion of Ireland and seek support for the IRA’s wartime bombing campaign in Ireland and Britain. The IRA was pro-Nazi and Russell was planning to prepare the way for a Nazi invasion of Ireland prior to the conquest of Britain.
    Sinn Fein held a commemoration for Russell last Saturday in Fairview Park in Dublin where there is a controversial statue of the IRA man with his right arm raised in what opponents in Dublin at the time of its erection in 1950 said resembled a Nazi salute.
    Speaking at the commemoration were the IRA figure, Brian Keenan, from Belfast who was involved in the bloody IRA bombing campaign in Britain in 1974 and the Sinn Fein candidate for next year’s European election, Mary Lou McDonald.
    The commemoration, according to Sinn Fein newspaper An Phoblacht, was to “pay tribute to a native of Dublin who played so important a role in the IRA in the first half of the last century”.
    The report stated that McDonald, “spoke articulately about the importance of the party’s election strategy over the coming year”.
    Sean Russell made contact with the German intelligence while on a fund-raising mission in the United States and was brought to Germany in May 1940 – at the height of the invasion of the rest of Europe.
    German intelligence was keen to encourage the IRA’s campaign which, at that stage had involved over 300 bomb attacks in Britain and Northern Ireland and several deaths. The worst atrocity was the killing of five people in a bomb left in shops in Coventry. The IRA also killed a garda and three RUC officers and stole more than a million rounds of ammunition from McKee Army Barracks in the Phoenix Park in December 1939. Internment was eventually introduced on both sides of the Border and the campaign wound down.
    The IRA campaign was deeply unpopular outside republican circles and 43,000 men and women from the Republic joined the Allied forces along with a further 38,000 from Northern Ireland.

  • lib2016

    Alternatively one could always remind the Poles of the gallant way Churchill handed them over to his pal Stalin when it suited his purpose.

    Of course the British would never betray their overseas allies these days.

  • fair_deal

    Poland (as with most of eastern europe) was already occupied by the Russians at the end of the war so how exactly was it handed over?

  • Jo

    I know and like Christy, but was always aware of the pro-Nazi Republican elements which, to say the least, I was much less keen in hearing celebrated in song!

    Those who fought the Nazis in uniform, and who by and large were not lauded as heroes if they happened to be Catholic, are much more worthy warriors. There are few, if any songs about them…it seems donning a British Army uniform outweighed fighting an utter and uncompromising evil.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Lib2016,

    “A little 1930s-40s history lesson might open a few Polish eyes when they learn that republicans are proud of their ancestors who went off to fight for the Spanish Republic while the British aristocracy and their colonial fellowtravellers in NI largely sympathised with and collaborated in the growth of facism.”

    This is the best piece of revisionism I’ve seen for quite some time. You seem to have forgotten the fact that more Irish men fought for the fascist side than against. Mainly as a result of the Catholic church siding with Franco. The Ra, thro’ Tom Barry, forbade their members from joining the International Brigades. Catholic Ireland picked the “wrong” side during the 30s. Accept it, learn and move on. But don’t try to rewrite history. Who knows, the Polish guy you’re talking to might know what happened and you could look foolish…

  • lib2016

    fair_deal

    In rush for lunch appointment and anyway couldn’t be bothered to explain the entire history of WW2. Look up Yalta Agreement if you are genuinely interested.

    It’s nice that unionists have finally moved on from the Somme but sometimes one just gets so tired of recycled World War 2 propaganda. Even Churchill had to recognise that the Empire was doomed – except of course for the dreary steeples…….!

  • slug9987@hotmail.com

    “Who knows, the Polish guy you’re talking to might know what happened and you could look foolish”

    Anyone attempting to claim that one side is morally ‘better’ than the other is foolish to begin with. It’s plain to see that the motivation for making any such claim is, in 99.999% of cases, not be from an impartial love of knowledge, but instead for simple tribal self-justification. A migrant Pole will see through it.

    I am surprised that so many people on Slugger think it is worthwhile!

  • fair_deal

    lib2016

    The Yalta agreement says the following on the governance of Poland:

    “A new situation has been created in Poland as a result of her complete liberation by the Red Army. This calls for the establishment of a Polish Provisional Government which can be more broadly based than was possible before the recent liberation of the western part of Poland. The Provisional Government which is now functioning in Poland should therefore be reorganized on a broader democratic basis with the inclusion of democratic leaders from Poland itself and from Poles abroad. This new Government should then be called the Polish Provisional Government of National Unity.

    “M. Molotov, Mr. Harriman and Sir A. Clark Kerr are authorized as a commission to consult in the first instance in Moscow with members of the present Provisional Government and with other Polish democratic leaders from within Poland and from abroad, with a view to the reorganization of the present Government along the above lines. This Polish Provisional Government of National Unity shall be pledged to the holding of free and unfettered elections as soon as possible on the basis of universal suffrage and secret ballot. In these elections all democratic and anti-Nazi parties shall have the right to take part and to put forward candidates.

    “When a Polish Provisional of Government National Unity has been properly formed in conformity with the above, the Government of the U.S.S.R., which now maintains diplomatic relations with the present Provisional Government of Poland, and the Government of the United Kingdom and the Government of the United States of America will establish diplomatic relations with the new Polish Provisional Government National Unity, and will exchange Ambassadors by whose reports the respective Governments will be kept informed about the situation in Poland.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Slug9987,

    I was merely pointing out that when Lib says…

    “that republicans are proud of their ancestors who went off to fight for the Spanish Republic”

    …it is a historical fact that more republicans fought for the fascist side.

  • slug9987@hotmail.com

    Congal Claen

    I thought your post was very good – in a way I was agreeing with you.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Slug,

    Sorry. Misunderstanding on my part…

  • Biffo

    Congal Claen

    “…it is a historical fact that more republicans fought for the fascist side.”

    Is it? What’s a good source for this?

  • Paddy Matthews

    I’d agree with Beano here.

    If [b]you[/b] were an immigrant to Poland or Lithuania, which would be a more important factor in deciding your vote:

    a) which side each particular party took on some aspect of mid to late 20th century history,

    b) the current policies of those parties on bread and butter issues, but with a particular emphasis on their attitudes towards you as an immigrant?

    A [b]lot[/b] of people here need to catch themselves on.

  • Paddy Matthews

    Apology for wrong tags :}

    I’d agree with Beano here.

    If you were an immigrant to Poland or Lithuania, which would be a more important factor in deciding your vote:

    a) which side each particular party took on some aspect of mid to late 20th century Polish/Lithuanian history,

    b) the current policies of those parties on bread and butter issues, but with a particular emphasis on their attitudes towards you as an immigrant?

    A lot of people here need to catch themselves on.

  • Congal Claen

    Hi Biffo,

    From…

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPirish.htm

    “Around 1,000 people from Ireland fought in Spanish Civil War. Figures suggest that 750 people joined the Blueshirts and 277 fought with the International Brigades. This sentence was taken from…”

    This estimate is similar to others I have seen. Just do a Google search. The above was just the first I came across.

    Hi Paddy,

    Agree 100% with what you say. I would imagine having lived in Poland they would be more than welcome to embrace capitalism. Something I don’t think SF would agree with them on…

  • Levitas

    Sinn Feins immigrant/asylum seekers rights group has produced two page basic rights and factual leaflets in Polish,Estonian,Latvian and Czech….I wonder if the DUP is busy producing their versions?

  • slug

    I happen to know a few Poles and they were very pro- the free market.