Observing the Loyal Sons of Ulster, proudly marching into the past

Let’s recap on yesterday’s events:

  1. Loyalist bands, along with Loyal Order representatives and unionist politicians- including First Minister Peter Robinson- release a letter to the newspapers condemning the Parades Commission for action taken following an explicitly sectarian act by a UVF-aligned loyalist band on the 12th July outside of St Patrick’s Church on Donegall Street, Belfast. The sectarian action involved stopping to play a song described as ‘racist’ by a Scottish Court and which celebrates the death of one million Irish people during the Famine.
  2. Loyalists assemble and are whipped into a frenzy by the City Grand Master at Clifton Street, who rips up the Parades Commission determination before the bands proceed towards St Patrick’s Church.
  3. According to numerous accounts, virtually all (if not all) of the loyalist bands breach the Parades Commission determination by playing music outside of the church, including the Sash.
  4. In addition to the music, many of the loyalist supporters have been pictured stopping directly outside of the church and waving loyalist flags, dancing with Union Flag umbrellas and/or making offensive gestures to the assembled protesters.
  5. Known loyalist paramilitary leaders- and unionist politicians- accompany the UVF-aligned Young Conway Volunteers band past St Patrick’s Church, a direct breach of the Parades Commission ruling that the band be forbidden from taking this route.
  6. Nigel Dodds releases a statement condemning republicans and the Parades Commission for causing the trouble. Seriously.

It is inconceivable that the combined forces of political unionism, the Loyal Orders and loyalist paramilitarism did not meet prior to yesterday’s antics to plan out the choreography of the day’s events, which actually makes all complicit in plotting an illegal event.

Once again, through sheer stupidity, the collective PUL leadership have exposed the shamelessly bigoted side of the loyalist parading culture and in the process thrown down a gauntlet to the PSNI, PPS and Parades Commission to ensure that swift and sufficient action is taken to punish those who so blatantly flouted the Parades Commission determination and acted in a disgraceful manner.

Already the PSNI have indicated that action will be taken, no doubt conscious that nationalist eyes will be watching to ensure that arrests similar to those that followed the violence in Ardoyne are made and charges brought against those culpable. Furthermore, there will be an onus on the Parades Commission to act decisively against the Loyal Orders to protect the integrity of the organisation- after all, failure to do so will be tantamount to surrendering to the supremacist mentality which has led to yesterday’s direct challenge to the legitimacy of the parading body.

Quite how anyone within the leadership of unionism could have believed that this was a wise course of action is beyond comprehension.

Let’s examine the letter to which Peter Robinson, Nigel Dodds and other unionist politicians put their names to ahead of yesterday’s happenings.

In it, the Parades Commission were accused of making a “monstrous determination” which was “draconian” with the effect of setting back community relations.

Let’s recall that it was the loyalist YCV band which acted in a ‘monstrous’ manner outside of St Patrick’s Church on the 12th July, as did those within political unionism who sought to give the band political cover by offering incredulous excuses for the band’s behaviour (and on that front, step forward North Belfast DUP MLA Nelson McCausland, another signatory of the letter.)

They continue:

“…we are running out of adjectives to describe the commission’s arrogance, incompetence and general ignorance” before urging the Secretary of State to act against the commission as apparently the commission is doing “untold damage to the peace process.” Alarmingly, they continue by threatening that “one of their determinations [could] spark a series of events that takes us back to a place which none of us wish to return to.”

That can only be taken as a threat that future restrictions on loyalist parades will lead to considerable and sustained loyalist violence. One wonders which element of the North and West Belfast Parades Forum came up with that line.

This is a return to a theme previously stated by senior DUP strategist and North Belfast councillor, Lee Reynolds, following the 12th July parade.

In a Sunday Sequence Seven Days interview after the 12th July, in an extraordinary claim, Lee Reynolds suggested that loyalist violence could have destroyed the PSNI and that its future could have been called into question over the fallout from the Crumlin Road parade.

In a discussion in which the DUP councillor also dismissed the furore surrounding the decision by the Shankill YCV Band to play the Famine Song outside of St Patrick’s Church by claiming “they played a tune,” the senior DUP strategist also had this to say on the DUP handling of the Crumlin Road parade:

“The 12th of July could have been much worse than it was. We could actually have been sitting here not discussing the future of the Parades Commission but whether the PSNI had a future because it could have potentially have been broken by the serious disorder that could have broken out.” (my italics)

So, to recap, the PSNI could be destroyed and the Parades Commission must be destroyed for the peace process to be saved as the combined leadership of the protestant/ unionist/ loyalist community are sick of not being allowed to march where they want, when they want and in a manner they alone should be allowed to dictate.

Alas, this is but one more illustration of unionism’s failure to properly confront and deal with its supremacist tendencies, and it is this which will continue to pose a threat to peace and stability in the time ahead.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Meanwhile a protestant Minister is attacked outside his church by a group of youths in a 93% catholic town while grown men and women watch and do nothing to help.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-19596226

    When can we expect a blog on this?

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    And I just told Buster on another thread that most people are decent. Shameful that no one came to help the Minister.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Almost certainly a naked sectarian attack carried out in broad daylight.

    Are the people of Strabane happy to see protestant church ministers attacked in the street?? Why did no-one try to stop the attack?

    Based on previous form it would seem Strabane is one of the most anti-protestant towns in Northern Ireland:

    http://sluggerotoole.com/2007/09/26/attacks-in-strabane-and-derry/

    http://www.ulsterherald.com/2012/04/10/vandals-attack-strabane-golf-club/

    http://www.uup.org/index.php/2011-11-17-14-12-35/news/709-hussey-condemns-attack-on-strabane-rugby-club.html

    http://www.strabaneweekly.co.uk/articles/news/28166/schools-target-for-attacks-by-vandals/

    http://www.headliners.org/storylibrary/stories/2010/Springhill+has+its+say+on+sectarianism

    “All there would be is fights if Protestants lived in Springhill. Having a Protestant boyfriend would bring fights to my family”

    “Darren Diver (16), has no Protestant friends and doesn’t want to in the future. He wouldn’t want to go out with or get married to a Protestant and doesn’t think Protestants should live in Springhill. ‘I don’t really like them,’ said Darren”

    “Protestants living in Springhill would get battered because some Catholics don’t like Protestants.”

    “Protestants are people who fight all the time. If they moved into Springhill they would be fighting with other people which wouldn’t do anything.’ She added that she thought Protestants are different and wouldn’t want to go out with or get married to a Protestant when she’s older.”

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    This attack would have been clearly visible from the front of the Police Station which was but a short distance away so, with a bit of luck, there will be a video record which may help to arrest the thugs.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    DDB,

    Didn’t read all of those but, on a point of information, the vast majority of Strabane golf club members are nominally Catholic. It is a predominantly “Catholic” town and golf clubs are no longer the exclusive enclaves they once were for the rich.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Joe, I think you’re giving these goons too much credit. For many Nationalists of low intelligence

    golf = Protestant.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    No, DDB. I’ve been a guest many times at that club. It is right beside a large “nationalist” housing estate from where much trouble has emanated and the club, apart from the club house being blown up three times in the early 70’s (club symbol now a phoenix), and occasional thefts of sand from bunkers, has had virtually no trouble for 30 years.
    (As an aside, the golfers there rarely replace divots any more; the local crows discovered that there would likely be worms under them and learned to pick the divots back up and throw them to the side.)

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Joe, you think your average gluesniffer or joyrider who carries out these kind of attacks on churches, Orange Halls, Protestant ministers, etc would know anyone who plays golf?

    Catholics played at the cricket ground on Lower Ormeau Road and it was still burnt down by local hoods under the instruction of the you-know-whos (who knew the club would eventually sell the land resulting in new social houses for Catholics).

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    No, DDB, Not the ones in your first sentence.

  • lamhdearg2

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-19596226

    thugs, criminals, anti social elements.

    some of the terms we would hear, if the police ever get round to investigating this, what we are unlikely to hear is the S word.

    That in the main is only something Irish nats suffer, as it is the driving force behind all attacks carried out by non irish nats.
    ( if the police/press reports are to be believed)
    mopery? ( apathy and dejection) or observation.

  • galloglaigh

    …it would seem Strabane is one of the most anti-protestant towns in Northern Ireland

    Meanwhile back in Lisburn

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    You have a problem with democracy and political coalitions galloglaigh?

  • galloglaigh

    Naw, just sectarian bigots who use the term ‘Democracy’, to peddle in hatred.

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    Do you feel the same way about Cameron and Clegg for keeping Labour out of power?

  • galloglaigh

    DDB

    Don’t be silly. First of all, I couldn’t care less who is in power in England. They’re all the same at the end of the day; we get our block grant regardless.

    The situation in England however compares nothing to that of Lisburn (or the other Councils who gerrymander and veto Catholics out of power). Labour were kept out of power, not because of their religion or race, but because of their view on how to get over a recession. Add to that the fact that the voters forced Labour out, and put the Liberal Party into a bargaining position.

    You see, real British people don’t really care about Catholic v Protestant like many Ulster British people of low intelligence. It’s a great insight into how insecure many Ulster British people of low intelligence are, and how far back in the past some seem to remain: The rest of the ‘UK’ can exist side by side, and many Ulster British people of low intelligence can’t.

    Your own comment about the golfer’s shows how little you know about what Irish nationalists think. When I see a golfer, I don’t think Protestant – I think arsehole.

    Sorry if I’ve offended any golfers, or indeed Protestants!

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    No, it shows how little I know about what YOU think – young feral catholic gluesniffers and joyriders who carry out attacks on Orange Halls, protestants churches, Methodist ministers, cricket, rugby and golf clubs believe:

    Golf = Protestant.

    As for the council deal, why can’t you accept the DUP and UUP agreed to work together because they share similar views and policies on many issues (as they do)? They pulled the same move in Castlereagh and there aint any SF councillors there……

    Why is it always ‘poor, auld, downtrodden catholic me’??

  • galloglaigh

    So you’ve actually gone out and asked every young feral catholic gluesniffer and joyrider what they think when they see a golfer? Well at least you’re doing something constructive with your time. It’ll keep you away from the young feral Protestant gluesniffers and joyriders in your own community who are out attacking GAA clubs, Catholic migrant workers, Catholic chapels, Catholic Priests, Catholic schools etc. etc. etc.

    Was it you who was on here defending Winky and his bunch of thugs? Feral indeed!

  • grandimarkey

    @Dont Drink Bleach

    No, it shows how little I know about what YOU think – young feral catholic gluesniffers and joyriders who carry out attacks on Orange Halls, protestants churches, Methodist ministers, cricket, rugby and golf clubs believe:

    Golf = Protestant.

    I grew up in Warrenpoint. The town is 90% Catholic according to the 2001 census. Warrenpoint has a golf course and it is very much availed of by the local community, my own brother was a junior member for 3 years. In fact, there were quite a lot of kids I went to school with who came from working class backgrounds who were and still are members. All Catholic of course.

    Your hypothesis is bizarre. Or warped, that’s probably a better word.

  • lamhdearg2

    Covenant bands ‘to only play hymns’ – UTV Live News

    http://www.u.tv/…/Covenant-bands…/1e8f242a-4127-4edd-988a-3569e06...

  • The Lodger

    Now the big question is will the Parade’s Commission agree to this and back down, or will they instigate a crisis where none exists?

  • lamhdearg2

    unfortunately the loyal orders engagement with locals “quiet, frank and constructive conversations had taken place with the clergy and parishioners”,
    has been rejected by S.F.s gerry kelly, who said this was “not sufficient”.,

  • The Lodger

    Quelle surprise. I wonder though if he has talked that through with drone HQ. I can’t see them wanting to be involved in a sectarian bunfight over parades in Belfast when they are so busy trying to convince the southern electorate that they are not a bunch of violent terrorist lunatics.

  • tacapall

    Leading Sunni Clerics Demand Global Ban on Insults to Islam

    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/leading-sunni-clerics-demand-global-ban-insults-islam

    Do you think this will become law.

  • galloglaigh

    Covenant bands ‘to only play hymns’ – UTV Live News

    As opposed to, what a UK Court of Law deemed a racist tune: Or any other racist or sectarian tunes they play. Why I wonder, aren’t they playing ‘Pop music’?

    The instigation of the crisis lies firmly at the feet of the DUP, the ‘Loyal Orders’, and the Shankil road UVF.

    Brothers in arms!

  • The Lodger

    Presumably hymn music would be considered appropriate outside a house of God. Although obviously the IRA don’t think so.

  • galloglaigh

    And nor do your ‘Loyal Orders’ with their very own terrorist bands. They’re both the same Lodger: That is loyalist and republican band parades.

    The Famine song is sectarian, as was the act. The videos dispel the lie that they had to stop. They could have walked well up the road away from the church. You can’t deny that, it’s there on film. Just as the republican band disrespected the Protestant church, the Orange Order, along with the UVF and DUP, did the very same thing. They even had the audacity to claim it was a pop song. The crowd clearly knew what tune it was. It’s preposterous to claim they were the only loyalists who knew.

    I’ve told you before, you’re kidding no one but yourselves.

  • The Lodger

    And that has what to do with the covenant parade exactly?

  • lamhdearg2

    taca,I watch with interest control in affect, regards hezbollahs Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah.

  • lamhdearg2

    but thats for another thread, that I doubt will appear on slugger.

  • galloglaigh

    And what do IRA parades have to do with it?

    You know exactly what it has to do with all parades: Should the PC ban them from playing all music, the UVF, the DUP, and the ‘Loyal Orders’ will be out enforce, defending those who openly break the law. Take the blinkers off!

  • lamhdearg2

    from the bbc. (edited)

    “North Belfast residents are to meet the Parades Commission later ahead of an Ulster Covenant parade past a Catholic church where trouble flared last month.”

    “Carrick Hill Concerned Residents Association said they would not speak publicly until after that discussion”.

    “On Monday, the Orange Order said bands taking part in the 29 September parade would play hymns when passing St Patrick’s Church in north Belfast”

    “The Parades Commission is due to meet later on Tuesday and will consider the Ulster Covenant Parade.”.

  • lamhdearg2

    Irish nationalist spokespersons of the splp, sf, carrickhill res groups, and even the local priest, have set there face against the gesture of “goodwill” issued by the O.O., the offer to play only hymns, as been described as “not good enough” and an “empty gesture” . It remains to be seen how the PC will declare tonight, however as their moto of “taking strides” has become “taking sides” and the side it has taken more often than not, is the irish nat side, the parade which is to take place sat week, looks set to be a test of the covenant spirit.
    Here I stand I can do no other.

  • The Lodger

    “Irish nationalist spokespersons of the splp, sf, carrickhill res groups, and even the local priest, have set there face against the gesture of “goodwill” issued by the O.O., the offer to play only hymns, as been described as “not good enough” and an “empty gesture” . ”

    This is an extremely curious turn of events. It seems that we are to have a resurgence of the Pan Nationalist Front on this issue including PIRA, the SDLP and the RC church. We have a brand new ‘resident’s group’ which consists of people who do not live on the street involved insisting that we have a brand new flashpoint.

    What do these idiots expect to achieve from throwing the OO’s gesture back in their faces?

    2016 will certainly be a barrel of laughs if this sort of nonsense is going to be the order of the day during the decade of centenaries.

  • babyface finlayson

    lamhdearg
    I seem to recall an incident, was it last year, when a band were asked to play only hymns going by St Matthews. They played the sash and said the tune was a hymn tune.
    Unfortunately that may account for the lack of trust now from the residents group.
    That is why talks are needed.
    Jaw jaw better than war war.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    Not to stir things up but – Does the State maintain an approved list of hymns?
    Anglican ones while passing an COI church and so on?

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    Crossed posts babyface.

  • lamhdearg2

    babyface, talks have taken place, the O.O. have had face to face talks with the local R.C. clergy, and local residents (in the from of parisoners),members of the carrick hill residents group where able to attend those talks, but they did not.

  • The Lodger

    I would like to know who or what exactly is the driving force behind the carrick hill residents? Especially given the fact that the church is not located in carrick hill.

  • GavBelfast

    The headlines leading-up to the next set-piece on Saturday week could, again, be “Attention-Seekers-Seek-Attention”.

    Again.

  • anne warren

    Lamhdearg2 wrote at 7.20 “members of the carrick hill residents group where able to attend those talks, but they did not”
    Would he like to correct the UTV news report?
    “the Orange Order had not included Carrickhill residents in talks”.
    “SDLP MLA Alban Maginness reiterated a call for the Orange Order to engage in direct talks with north Belfast residents ahead of the parade later this month”.
    http://www.u.tv/News/Covenant-parade-plans-empty-gesture/781ea2cc-78da-4acd-8baa-3b8374690211

    The OO refusal to speak to Carrick Hill residents, whatever pretexts the OO may appeal to, carries overtones of rejection and ostracism.

    In other words, the OO is ignoring residents and giving them the “silent treatment”. This says you don’t count and we don’t care.

    Bullying (the PC rulings are not worth the paper they are written on) and ridiculing (dancing in circles outside church) are other aspects of rejection by an entire group of people.

    Ostracism, on the other hand, uniquely poses a threat to four fundamental human needs: the need to belong, the need for control in social situations, the need to maintain high levels of self-esteem, and the need to have a sense of a meaningful existence.

    A threat to these needs produces psychological distress and pain.

    Is the OO aware of the effects of its behaviour or even interested in learning about them?

    Can the OO attitude be construed as “Christian” behaviour?

  • The Lodger

    anne warren,

    Two points.

    The Rev Mervyn Gibson of the OO stated on Radio Ulster today that the ‘residents’ were not excluded from the talks.

    The church is not in Carrick Hill.

  • anne warren

    Lodger:
    “The church is not in Carrick Hill ”
    A pretext that is being appealed to

    The Rev Mervyn Gibson of the OO stated on Radio Ulster today that the ‘residents’ were not excluded from the talks.
    “were not excluded”
    Two negatives don’t make a positive!!
    Take on board two words: rejection and ostracism.

    Did the people of NI sign up to this with the GFA/Belfast Agreement?

  • The Lodger

    anne warren,

    I have no idea what you are trying to say. The only people who are doing any rejecting in this case are the so called residents.

  • PeterBrown

    Anne / TL

    W Irvine claimed on GEU tonight if I heard correctly that the Chair of the Carrick Hill Residents had been invited to join the discussions with the clergy & parishioners but had refused (twice) to do so which if true somewhat undermines their whole position reinforced by the fact that they have suddenly morphed into Carrick Hill Concerned Residents Committee – let’s hear what the PP has to say about this claim?

  • anne warren

    Peter Brown wrote at 8.46 pm
    “let’s hear what the PP has to say about this claim?”

    I presume the PP refers to the parish priest.
    Is Father Michael Sheehan the PP?
    I don’t know. He may well be. He is certainly working at St Patrick’s
    The UTV report says
    “Father Michael Sheehan from St Patrick’s said he had been encouraged by initial talks, but ultimately expressed disappointment that the Orange Order had not included Carrickhill residents in talks.
    “I am bewildered that they are being excluded from ‘the conversations’,” he said.
    The priest described the decision to only play hymns as an improvement to the actions that occurred during the Royal Black Preceptory event, but added that it was “no substitute for real and meaningful dialogue”.

    http://www.u.tv/News/SF-residents-talks-motion-rejected/781ea2cc-78da-4acd-8baa-3b8374690211

    So either Fr Sheehan or W Irvine, is being economical with the truth – unless there have been changes since the UTV report was broadcast.

    Could the discrepancy be due to lack of transparency and openness?

    After all the OO and the Black preceptory have reiterated they were having “quiet conversations”

    “Quiet conversations” (between whom?) preclude informing the general public about what is going on and who is conversing.

    So the message again is . . . .

  • The Lodger

    anne warren,

    The message appears to be that the combined nationalists in that area have decided on confrontation and the priest is sticking with his own.

  • anne warren

    you’re missing the point Lodger!!!

  • The Lodger

    The only point I can see you making is that either the priest or Irvine is being economical with the truth. That is obvious, but your conclusion is not.

  • anne warren

    Think about it!

  • lamhdearg2

    Hello Anne
    Regards your “Would he like to correct the UTV news report?”, I think I already have.
    The bBC and uTV, evening news lead with misleading (at best, deliberate lying in my view) headlines, they both claimed “the orange order have refused to meet with residents” this is not true, they have met, and do not rule out meeting again residents.

  • anne warren

    Evening Lamhearg2

    From exchanges we have had over time and several threads I know you are sincere in what you believe.

    According to you “The bBC and uTV, evening news lead with misleading (at best, deliberate lying in my view) headlines,”
    We (the general public) have to accept your word at face value that
    ” this is not true, they have met, and do not rule out meeting again residents” because
    we have no proof that what you say is true or not true.

    So I repeat what I have already said

    Could the discrepancy between what you and others are convinced of and what the BBC and UTV report be due to lack of transparency and openness?
    After all the OO and the Black Preceptory have reiterated they were having “quiet conversations”
    “Quiet conversations” (between whom?) preclude informing the general public about what is going on and who is conversing.
    So the message again is . . . . .

  • lamhdearg2

    “Quiet conversations” (between whom?)”

    Anne, as you know, between the lines is where the story is at, the O.O. has said they have met with the local clergy (father sheehan) and parishoners, I will assume that the “parishoners” are local, and not flown in from abroad, No one from the Irish nats side has said this is not the case, if someone from the irish nats side was saying, this is untrue, I believe we would be hearing/reading that from/in the local press, we also have both an O.O. member and minister saying the carrickhill res, where welcome and a hate figure (for the irish nats) W Irvine, claiming the carrickhill chairman was asked to join in the meetings, if this where not true, do you not believe the s.f. press office woulkd be all over it?. I will leave it at that, untill proven otherwise.

  • anne warren

    “between the lines is where the story is at”

    Says a lot about the OO, its way of operating and its respect for the general public of NI

  • lamhdearg2

    “Says a lot about the OO, “, says ditto about the other lot aswell.
    But worse still what it says about the press, who it seems, cant ask the PP if the chairman was asked or not, Maybe just maybe they know the answer, and are following a, dont ask and you wont have to report,line.

  • anne warren

    Agreed Lamhdearg2 –

    Lack of clear information from the OO, press and “the other lot” (and at best contradictory news) signifies lack of respect for the general public and says “you don’t count and we don’t care”

    The general public of NI deserves better

    Nobody signed up for being unable to express an informed opinion about this or any other matter

  • galloglaigh

    I think the problem here is apparent:

    1: The Orange Order have refused to meet the Carrick Hill residents. As has already been pointed out, the Orange Order don’t see them as being part of this. The Orange Order supporting Sluggerites here have made that clear.

    2: The Orange Order has used the cover of parishioners (how many?), as them meeting the residents. That’s simply not good enough.

    At the end of the day, people are sick sore and tired, of the nonsense that goes on during these parades. Fair enough for years it was said to be one or two bands. The last few years, with the advent of youtube and facebook, the veneer is beginning to peel. For unionist politicians, and indeed the Orange Order supporting Sluggerites to be defending this is surreal.

    It’s also amazing that we have Orange Order supporting Sluggerites, complaining about the ‘Pan-Nationalist Front’. We’ve had a Pan-Unionist Front since 1801: Brother’s in arms; better together; Quis Separabit

  • galloglaigh

    PeterBrown

    W Irvine claimed on GEU tonight

    That would be this W Irvine, who not long ago, stoked the flames during a republican parade? More than 60 police officers were injured and seven hospitalised; The Shankil UVF were blamed. I don’t need to point any fingers here – We all know Gerry was in the IRA wink wink! We all know who Winston Irvine is too nudge nudge – It doesn’t take a Brain Surgeon nor a Company Commander to work it out!

    And there he is with Nigel before the 12th meeting the PSNI.

    Ach… Isn’t that great… It takes me back to my childhood: Literally!

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    galloglaigh – 19 September 2012 at 2:20 am
    That would be this W Irvine, who not long ago, stoked the flames during a republican parade? More than 60 police officers were injured and seven hospitalised; The Shankil UVF were blamed.

    .
    Any chance you could stop telling blatant lies???

    The UVF had nothing to do with any rioting near Carlisle Circus – as confirmed by the PSNI.

    Assistant Chief Constable Will Kerr said:

    “…It is not being orchestrated directly by the UVF. We have no evidence that the UVF or any other Loyalist paramilitary group is officially or actively orchestrating this violence…”

    “…We saw some people with connections to Loyalist paramilitaries who were working very hard to quell this…”

    http://eamonnmallie.com/2012/09/assistant-chief-constable-will-kerr/

  • galloglaigh

    DDB

    While there’s no evidence that the UVF, or any other Loyalist terrorist group is officially or actively orchestrating this violence; it is quite possible that one Brigade Commander seems to be an exception to the rule?

    The Shankil road UVF were blamed, by everyone but the PSNI and DUP. That doesn’t mean to say it was sanctioned by their leadership. Isn’t it all getting cosy round the fire again boys?Sure it wouldn’t be Belfast if it wasn’t any other way!

  • Dont Drink Bleach

    galloglaigh:
    While there’s no evidence that the UVF, or any other Loyalist terrorist group is officially or actively orchestrating this violence; it is quite possible that one Brigade Commander seems to be an exception to the rule?

    The Shankil road UVF were blamed, by everyone but the PSNI and DUP. That doesn’t mean to say it was sanctioned by their leadership. Isn’t it all getting cosy round the fire again boys?Sure it wouldn’t be Belfast if it wasn’t any other way!

    .
    So….

    If the PSNI say the UVF were organising the rioting it is the gospel truth and should be repeated ad finitum.

    If the PSNI say the UVF weren’t organising rioting well sure it’s modern day collusion all over again….

    You are unbelievable!

    They only people who blamed the UVF for organising rioting were Sinn Fein and the SDLP – who’s representatives watched from behind landrovers hundreds of yards away. Why would their claims be given more credence than the PSNI who were at the front line and filming every single thing which went on??? The PSNI know it was just young hoods rioting – and they confirmed UVF members were involved trying to stop the violence.

    Given their grandstanding over next week’s parade in North Belfast and claims about this rioting, it almost seems as if SF and the SDLP are purposely trying to stoke tensions in the area.

    Why are they doing that?

  • PeterBrown

    Gallogaigh

    Nice attempt to chnage the subject with classic whataboutery – if what he said was correct and the silence from everyone else on this particular point is deafening with the residents refusing interviews (I wonder why!?) the whole St Pats issue is dead in the water -its the residents not the order who are refusing to talk and thereby by their own definition refusing to show respect!

  • galloglaigh

    Classic whataboutery indeed Peter. But sadly it’s the truth.

    What doesn’t seem to be the truth though, is that the residents have refused to talk. Again the Orange Order refuses to meet a residents group. Time’s running out Peter – Time’s running out!

    DDB

    The PSNI know it was just young hoods rioting – and they confirmed UVF members were involved trying to stop the violence

    While down at the other end of the street they were filling petrol-bombs. Dumb it down however you will, they were involved, and they did stoke the flames. All you have to do is watch enough coverage. Winky and his hench men’s faces become familiar. They were all over the coverage outside St. Patrick’s Church during the Black Parade; some blocking cameras. That’s a fact. Stop trying to blur the obvious. It’s the same for dissidents – watch the coverage and patterns emerge.

    You seem to be under the illusion that us Fenians are stupid or something?

  • lamhdearg2

    gallo, it has been suggested that the carrick hill res groups chairman was invited to the talks allready held, can you dispell this suggestion with anything concrete.

    if not and the suggestion is true then it was he that refused to talk.

  • lamhdearg2

    Covenant talks ‘a meeting of minds’ – UTV Live News
    http://www.u.tv/…/Covenant-talks-a-meeting-of-minds/2aaa61e2-22cf-444...

  • PeterBrown

    What doesn’t seem to be the truth though, is that the residents have refused to talk. Again the Orange Order refuses to meet a residents group. Time’s running out Peter – Time’s running out!

    I haven’t heard anyone deny what W Irvine said – what have you heard?

  • galloglaigh

    Well if I’ve heard what you’ve heard, then we more than likely heard a statement from the UVF?

  • lamhdearg2

    gallo, it has been suggested that the carrick hill res groups chairman was invited to the talks allready held, can you dispell this suggestion with anything concrete

  • lamhdearg2

    I am sure that dispite my spelling, you can work out what I am asking you,but just in case

    gallo, it has been suggested that the carrick hill res groups chairman was invited to the talks already held, can you dispel this suggestion with anything concrete,

    ps fare play to you, the rest of the anti orange sluggerites have gone missing.

  • galloglaigh

    the rest of the anti orange sluggerites have gone missing

    Maybe they’re all at GAA clubs planing and preparing for the Covenant riots?

    Raging I wasn’t invited :) :)

  • lamhdearg2

    gallo, it has been suggested that the carrick hill res groups chairman was invited to the talks already held, can you dispel this suggestion with anything concrete,

    gallo, you can say, I dont know, if that is the case.

    however this must surely follow.

    if not and the suggestion is true then it was he that refused to talk.

  • http://gravatar.com/joeharron Mister_Joe

    lamhdearg,

    We’re slowly “getting there”. There is a lot more engagement than even just a few years ago. The Apprentice Boys have shown the way.

  • galloglaigh

    Surely you wouldn’t want me to say exactly that: I’d probably edit it a weeee bit. Just to tidy it up like.

    I went to a Catholic School :) :)

  • lamhdearg2

    maybe I am being unfair to gallo, it seems he cannot answer, so I will open it up to anyone.

    It has been suggested that the carrick hill res groups chairman was invited to the talks allready held, can you dispell this suggestion with anything concrete.

    if not and the suggestion is true then it was he that refused to talk.

  • galloglaigh

    The answer may be in the question: Suggested by whom?

  • DC

    Well has the covenant not been a good thing, sure without it most of Ulster would probably now have high if not higher levels of emigration than those already united 3 other fields?

    And to think loyalists are getting painted as lunatics whenever the state republicans fought and died for and want to unite us all with has bankrupt banks (billions of missing *euros*) and mass emigration, mass movement of people out of Ireland and to England.

    World.

    Has.

    Gone.

    Mad.

  • lamhdearg2

    I believe that, if this where not true, and he had not been invited, then someone from the church, the res group, or S.F., would have dispelled the suggestion by how. what do you believe,

    gerry kelly had a chance to dispel it tonight on utv, he did not.

  • DC

    proudly-marching-into-the-past – better that than having taken a ‘progressive’ jump into a futile future.

    The Covenant, it has so far delayed millions of people in Ulster from having to take the boat to England.

    So keep that subvention coming, some of us do appreciate it, seriously, well known others will never ever be happy!

  • lamhdearg2

    BBCNI, UTV HEADLINE,
    that we have not, but should have seen,

    Undenied reports suggest the the chairman of the Carrickhill concerned residents, refused an invite to talks with the Orange Order.

  • PeterBrown
  • lamhdearg2

    But all was quite, but for the sound of the wind and a tumble weeds rustle.