More symptoms of that political psychosis…
They’re at it again in Londonderry, where The Sentinel reports that Sinn Féin MLA Raymond McCartney “has attacked the Ordnance Survey of Ireland for its preference for ‘Londonderry’ over ‘Derry.’” That would be the same place that will be the UK City of Culture in 2013… From The Sentinel report
“I have raised this matter directly with Ordnance Survey Ireland and the Minister to which they are responsible, Eamon Ryan TD and made it quite clear that I find it offensive to see a map produced by the National Mapping Agency which ignores the aspirations of the vast majority of Derry citizens who are proud of their Irish identity.”
[He does know it remains an aspiration because it hasn't been achieved? - Ed] Presumably… at least, I think he knows he’s still in the UK…
Topic: Government, Society and Culture
Region: Ireland, Northern Ireland, UK
Anon
You are not talking about a compromise you are talking about a surrender, and you know it. If they won’t bend, break em.
I don’t want to see any more people broken and humiliated by the troubles. To win the peace it has to be better than that.
Thats a compromise? sure you wouldn’t rather rename the airport, sqeeze em all in and wait for them to take the hint.
1. Sell the airport to Michael O’Leary.
2. He renames it London (Derry).
Problem solved…
Paddy Matthews
LOL I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. Mind even he might not get away with the brackets!
No I am talking about a compromise. What do they want? The walled city to remain “Londonderry” and nationalist pols to use it? Sure. Promoted seprately within the Derry package? Sure. Links with London, and opportunities for the peple from that part of the city? I’m sure it could be arranged. But I don’t presume to know what is they would like in exchange for petitioning the Privy council to change the name. I don’t know this, because all they’ve ever said is not an inch.
Anon
I think they want their equality protected. It is what I would want and it would hurt no one if a real genuine and generous compromise could be agreed.
It is a shared history and protestant history should take its rightful place beside catholics not be buried somewhere in ever decreasing relevance, except of course when it’s dragged into the limelight to explain away some appalling act of violence
It hurts no one to divide the two equally and it might help some to come to terms with change.
Mind even he might not get away with the brackets!
A Michael O’Leary-Pete Baker deathmatch sounds promising…
Whether the city is known as Londonderry or Derry will make no difference to possible investors. In fact, IMO it makes no difference to vast majority of people on this island. Only a small portion of those in the 6 counties waste any effort on this pointless dispute.
BTW, they are changing the name of New York back to New Amsterdam.
‘The last thing you want to do is to give the people of the disputed city an opportunity to vote on the issue, recent history has shown the democratic process has been extremely problematic for them.’
Are you sure you didnt mix up Derry with Zimbabwe? I don’t remember hearing about any problems with democracy in Derry. As far as I’m aware elections there pass off peacefully and without contention. Or do you mean the people vote for, what in your eyes constitutes, the ‘wrong’ parties? And any vote on the name change will bring about the ‘wrong’ result for you? And as for attacking Martina, I fully accept the majority of politicians in the city are a bunch of clowns but to single her out when other parts of NI vote in the likes of Sammy Wilson, Iris Robinson, Peter Robinson and Gerry Adams! Take your blinkers off – there are far worse elected into power!
pippakin
I take it that based on your logic unionism will recognise that a significant minority don’t want NI to be in the union and compromise accordingly? Will there be some kind of joint authority with Ireland? I doubt it. Unionisms call has always been ‘we’re in the majority so stick it up yer a*se!’ Its no surprise to me that when the situation is reversed suddenly its all about compromise or better yet, just leave the damn name alone so we can have our cake and eat it!
I think the point here is that the right of nationalists to call the city Derry is not protected or treated equally, as the official name resolutely remains Londonderry and only that. Indeed the sheer number of times that I’ve had the question ‘don’t you mean Londonderry!’ barked back at me upon revealing my city of birth highlights you’re average unionist’s complete inability to ‘protect my equality’ to call it that.
D
There has been compromise from unionists. The north is as it is today because of compromise. The name of the city and county has become a major obstacle, and no I am not a bit surprised at the reaction of some people to your use of the Irish name for the city/county.
The point is Ireland has to persuade unionists not force them. I’m not interested in the ‘throw the dog a bone’ attitude of some.
Pippakin,
While we seem to have similar thoughts on this subject, I am not convinced that it is a major obstacle to anything.
I have strong attachments to Derry, my mother having been from there, and I have a lot of relatives in and around the city. I don’t think many if any, of them give a great deal of thought to the issue. At most it is a minor irritant. Nobody gets thrown into the clink because they, like almost everyone, call the place Derry.
joe
Oh no, I don’t think most people do care, just some very vociferous republicans and loyalists.
Did I suggest anyone would be thrown in jail or even to the wolves? lol. I’m sure I would never dare.
D: I think the point here is that the right of nationalists to call the city Derry is not protected or treated equally,
You may call it what you like. You may refer to my home town as “Beannchar”, though the locals don’t any more. You may also refer to Northern Ireland as “the six counties”; you may refer to the 26 counties as the “Republic of Ireland” or even (bafflingly) as “Ireland”.
In short, you are free, you have rights. Your problem is that other people have differing opinions. Tough.
Maps produced by Ordnance Survey Ireland after May 2007 must comply with EC Directive 2007/2/EC and its construction of a pan-EU mapping database. As the Irish state no longer has any sovereignty in the production of its maps, it must usual the official name for Londonderry and not its pet name.
It can still use the pet name in in roads signs (as it does) but it no longer has discretion in regard to its maps so the psychotic Shinner is barking up the wrong tree. If the Shinners want the EU to use Derry as the name then they will have to petition those who hold the sovereignty to change the name (Her Majesty’s Privvy Council).
Typo: “…it must use the official name for Londonderry and not its pet name.”
Em…. thats a bit of a no-brainer. The only people with a say in the name change should be the folk who live, work and pay their rates there. Why in the hell should people in Belfast, Omagh, Newry, Portadown, etc. get a say in whether its Derry or Londonderry? Do Derry folk get a say on local council issues in Belfast, Omagh, etc? Nope.
Golden opportunity for the derry wans to vote themselves into the ROI “closer connections with Donegal ” etc
Agree that it should be a local decision rather than a national one.
Here in Ontario about 10 years ago we went through a period of consolidation locally mandated by the provincial Government. Nearby districts/towns/townships were “forced” to amalgamate in the interest of administrative efficiency. It was left to the locals to decide who would almalgamate with whom. Afterwards, of course, there was the problem of deciding what to call the new “municipality”. Most areas solved the problem by getting the citizenry to suggest names, then drew up a shortlist which was presented to the citizenry in a referendum held at the same time as the first local elections following amalgamation. It was nobody elses business other than the local electorate.
“The only people with a say in the name change should be the folk who live, work and pay their rates there.” – barnshee
Perhaps, but that would be subject to a change in UK law that is beyond the scope of the locals in NI. You lack the sovereignty to name your cities, and you also lack the sovereignty to determine the method by which your cities should to be named.
The names of the British state’s cities are national issues (and properly so), not local, so they are subject to national self-determination, not local determination, which is exercised in the British state through Her Majesty’s on the advice of her Privy Council.
However, there is another layer of bureaucracy that prevents the local democracy that you advocate: the Equality Commission. Local majorities have no automatic power of determination since they are now subject to the de facto veto of the minority under equality legislation. So even if the majority agreed, it is highly unlikely that the Sovereign power would give her permission when the Equality Commission has condemned majority-rule there as a breach of minority rights (the residents in the city who don’t want its name changed).
Alias,
I don’t know the legal issues, but it doesn’t matter a lot. The official name is Londonderry and that will obviously not change unless there is a change in sovereignty (imagine, only another 6 years after over 300 years of terrible oppression wrt town names). Almost everyone locally, irrespective of religion, call the place Derry. It works.
Remember Hagar the Horrible of the All Night Party? What happened his campaign to change Derrycoole Way in Rathcoole to Londonderry Coole Way? “Forget the shite and vote All Night” best political slogan ever.
Symbolically the London prefix is appropriate because so much of the city’s regular income originates from London (not including one-off windfalls like the BS Inquiry).
How about promising a change of name as soon as the city can achieve fiscal self-sufficiency i.e. when the amount it pays in taxes of all forms exceeds receipts from the state.
Any attempt by Unionists to frustrate this ambition by, for example, breeding double-digit families at public expense would have to be taken into account, of course.
‘Symbolically the London prefix is appropriate because so much of the city’s regular income originates from London. How about promising a change of name as soon as the city can achieve fiscal self-sufficiency’
You’ve just described Northern Ireland in its entireity, not just derry. A parasite state with a bloated public sector that devours far more resources than it gives back. I completely agree though, the city should aim for fiscal self-sufficiency but this requires good infrastructure, promotion of the area and political leadership. These are mainly the responsibility of the NI government which has been shown to be less than interested in the northwest down the years. London and Stormont must speculate (in derry) to accumulate. And lining the pockets of millionaire barristers is not the sort of spending that will encourage economic growth in the area!
‘Any attempt by Unionists to frustrate this ambition by, for example, breeding double-digit families at public expense would have to be taken into account, of course’
Ah the old outdated, bigotted notion that all Derry families have 10 kids and no-one works. Good stuff, good stuff. Well you cant work when there are no jobs. How about stormont makes the effort to attract some investment to the area so that people can actually be employed?
D
“lining the pockets of millionaire barristers is not the sort of spending that will encourage economic growth in the area!”
Agree 100% with you on that whether your referring to BS Inquiry or the general scandal of legal aid.
“old outdated, bigotted notion that all Derry families have 10 kids”
Where did I say that? Even though the area has traditionally had the highest birth rate in the whole of Ireland, I doubt that it ever reached that figure.
NO JOBS.did they not shoot a few people up there for having jobs.oh and patsy gillispie turned into a human bomb for having the cheek to have a job
the area has traditionally had the highest birth rate in the whole of Ireland
Very old joke.
Derryman, walking down the street in the nude, arrested and charged with indecency.
The Judge agreed with Defence Counsel that the man was in his working clothes.
What’s the connection with Rio – crime rates?
redhugh – is that from memory?
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