Foster says DUP only saw text of a proposed deal on late Monday morning

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  • SilentMajority

    Thanks for the details.

    I have no reason to doubt what you say in regard to the 10.7bn.

    This whole issue reminds me of the extra £350m a week for health that was indicated as fact in the lead up to the referendum!

    The old saying about ‘statistics and damn lies’ comes to mind about the whole matter and perhaps what people want to believe including what Owen Patterson has been claiming:-

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42223732

    and on the Arlene 72% claim

    http://www.irishnews.com/news/2017/12/06/news/brexit-dup-silent-on-72-per-cent-trade-claim-1203108/?ref=sh

  • Jess McAnerney

    Yes, plus the remain vote was huge, 16M
    What is important is who has the steering wheel as only they can determine the direction
    There may be the odd diversion, but that is more to keep other hands off the wheel
    The passengers seem to be fairly content to date though for all the diversity of opinion

  • Jess McAnerney

    You don’t get to build an empire by back tracking
    The brexit train is going in one direction only, as yet none of the passengers have got off.
    The Scots were at the station with the doors wide open and bums stayed firmly in their seats

    An economy the size of englands will be able to rebuild post brexit.
    The rest of us will have to decide to get our fingers out and help or do our own thing

  • Rapparee

    “You don’t get to build an empire by back tracking”
    I think your analysis is at least a century out of date, the British economy and society is verging on dysfunctional, look at all the key economic indicators, woeful.
    The Scots were sold a pup in relation to continued EU membership etc, with Indy 1. It`ll be a different ball game with Indy 2.

  • Lagos1

    Sure, we can always discuss the precise statistics and certainly Patterson’s data is total NI trade (my 4.6% figure) rather than just NI exports. The Irish news article clarified this (the BBC article is itself a bit disingenuous) and it also only picks fault with Arlene as to whether it is 72% or 67%. But the overall point being made by both Arlene and Patterson are valid; i.e. that trade with GB is paramount with regard to trade. We shouldn’t need to question this when we think about it. NI is part of the same nation and island archipelago as GB with GB being the overwhelmingly most populous and industrial island.

  • Jess McAnerney

    I didn’t say they were trying to build an empire now, quite the opposite.
    I would say the English would happily dissolve the union and let Scotland go its own way.
    I am saying if you are going to try and understand their motivations, you have to understand how they think.
    The English have called time on their membership of EU and it is either a smooth transition or hit the eject button.
    There wont be an indy 2, the rest of us will either get on board or the union will be dissolved with consequences

  • Rapparee

    Well if the majority of Scots continue to vote for the SNP and look for a 2nd Indy ref, it can`t be denied. WM can keep sitting on the boiling pot for as long as it thinks, but it will happen in due course if warranted by the majority. Otherwise the UK is not a functioning democracy, likewise for the north.
    It`s all a matter of time.

  • DOUG

    I swear I read that as ” with ” a Swiss model.

  • DonArd

    I am really sick and tired of the Brexiteers’ rhetoric and lies.

    You voted to leave. Please get on with it, get out and leave the rest of us to enjoy the benefits of EU membership, of further integration, co-operation and growth.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

    Bring on a Hard Brexit and a Hard Border along the 300 miles of the Irish border and at UK points of entry.

    Bring on the continued demise of the UK on the international stage. Your PM was a pathetic laughing stock this week.

    I agree fully with Jess’s analysis. The ‘nationalists’ in the north and Scotland will have to make a decision. Agitate for actual real change to the border or constitutional position or shut up and be good compliant UK citizens.

    In the Brexit context it will not good enough to pretend that the border doesn’t exist, if you can’t see it it doesn’t exist type of thinking, as some political parties have indulged in for the last 20 years.

  • William Hutchinson

    Ive thought this all week but that quote sums it up perfectly

  • Sean Danaher

    Yes it is interesting how little opinion seems to be changing. There has been a slight drift to remain but the country is still split not far off 50-50

    Data from https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?removed

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/37354fc5346a046782e70cea73c8f797fe896e9e7bf8a5238fbe3eb51f76a53d.png

  • SilentMajority

    It is also the case that no matter what the Brexit deal, special arrangements or none, or whatever, Arlene is disingenuous to say that the economic relationship with the UK would not continue as it is and would remain at whatever level that this is (72% or whatever) as NI would remain part of the UK. Perception may be an influence on views, and NI may feel different after a Brexit (is it not already?), but in reality it would not.

    As part of the UK, NI would clearly enjoy any benefits (or dis-benefits) that this brings, but also strangely continue to claim special status in the form of a very large subvention from the UK taxpayer and also lobby for special arrangements for corporation tax. It also has a ‘special’ arrangement in the form of the GFA. To cater for this unique, special status requires a special Brexit vehicle in which ‘no, never’ as an answer is unlikely to work. Leo Varadkar seems a form of liberal,modern, progressive democrat not caught up in ancient tribal issues and sincerely appears to be trying for a solution to Brexit that is not trying to get a United Ireland by the back door.

    Arlene could be cutting off her nose in spite of her face!

    Stranger than fiction.

  • 05OCT68

    Someone made the point, I think it was on spotlight, that the majority of Ireland’s exports are to the UK yet Ireland has no problem having the “border” in the Irish sea. To me this makes a nonsense of the DUP’s position.

  • Sean Danaher

    A wise friend said to me “One of the sad things about getting older is that fantasy becomes more and more removed from reality.”

  • Derrick O’Leary

    I’m from Galway and as a teenager worked in a hotel, we used to get an annual group from Oxford Brooks University on a geography expedition. I remember after work trying to get into the pants of a pretty young student who asked me where the border was and what side we were on.
    When I drew it for her on the back of a copybook, she looked at Northern Ireland and said “but that’s tiny”. For obvious reasons I bit back the “It’s part of your country” comment.
    Clearly, physical geography and not political.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Unionism has reacted hysterically to what was clearly intended to carry the talks over to economic negotiation. Just as in 1912 unionism has shown itself incapable of a responsible reaction to perfectly reasonable arrangements then and Perfectly reasonable wording today. They are turning something which might have led to a sensible regulatory convergence for the whole United Kingdom into a crisis through there in ability To even begin to act in the manner of normal politicians.

  • Kevin Breslin

    DUP need to come up with some sort of semipermeable Northern Irish to Irish-EU border to deliver only on what Lee Reynolds and co. promised in Vote Leave NI campaign, or be held responsible for destroying Brexit, the Union or both!

  • Barneyt

    I really want to disagree but I’m struggling. I’m not sure the solution presented and derailed on Monday represents anything workable but at the time I was quite excited. I guess you are saying, let’s face the ultimate impact of brexit and let its engineers carry the can? If the uk gets out with no deal and we get the hard border there has to be some consequence. I suspect the north will be hit the hardest but it’s hard to argue we deserve it as the majority voted NO. I don’t see an end game as the British will dig in and we’ll get battered again. I now find myself disagreeing with you. I’m happier now. I’m guessing you are south of the border and have your hands on the hoist ropes of the drawbridge?

  • Sean Danaher

    Hi Zorin
    It is worth looking at Jack of Kent’s (David Allen Green’s) blog. (he writes for the FT and did the excellent Brexit by Timetable Pts 1-3). One can’t help but come to the conclusion that Davis has been economical with the truth
    http://jackofkent.com/2017/11/the-early-history-of-the-58-brexit-sector-analyses/

  • Fat Ex Prop

    Scottish independence and Irish Unification would be guaranteed by giving the English a vote.

  • 7 minute abs

    Massive support for the DUP rejecting this deal. It was designed to wreck Brexit. As Jacob Rees-Mogg put it, the DUP saved Brexit. Next stop WTO and no divorce bill.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/12/05/dup-saves-brexit-right-leave-eu/

  • 7 minute abs

    Massive support for the DUP’s action on Nigel Farage’s LBC show. Even Ian Paisley Jn calls in for a chat.

    https://youtu.be/x4chTa3oO-Q

  • 7 minute abs

    DUP are influenced by Christian based morals. JRM is also a Christian. What’s hard to understand about their similar views?

  • Sean Danaher

    Of course you are right. It always amazes me that the two communities in NI who have so much in common seem to be at loggerheads.