Kevin Myers disgraced

It is to say the least unfortunate that Kevin Myers’ iconoclasm about hoary Irish republican myths has been perhaps fatally devalued  first by Holocaust denial and now by  bonkers allegations that two BBC contracted women presenters  were among the highest paid because they were Jewish. The Sunday Times which carried the claim in its Irish edition has withdrawn it and apologised.

I’ve been casually acquainted with Kevin for 40 years since we were both reporters in Belfast at the height of the Troubles and I’ve often  enjoyed his provocative writing.  But I fear that he seems to have carried perversity to the level of self-willed dementia and is destroying himself. How his many critics of his version of recent Irish history will be pleased.  Danny  Morrison  was one of few from inside the camp to challenge him directly while conceding his talents.

However he should be allowed to explain himself in moderate language.  One last hurrah with Vincent Browne  perhaps?

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  • The worm!

    “Every serious historian” agrees because none of them want to be stigmatised with the label “holocaust denier”.

    Surely you would agree that completely shutting down the debate on ANY event does nothing whatsoever to further the cause of accuracy regarding it?

  • ted hagan

    I don’t honestly know. Anti-semitism is an insidious beast.
    In an article about women and equal pay I don’t know why on earth Jewishness was introduced, except that I know Myers’ form and I think he knew exactly what he was doing and, perhaps, the outcry it would provoke, so that he could proclaim himself a martyr to free speech.
    The guy has let himself down and his newspaper down, but then the Sunday Times should have known what it was letting itself in for.

  • ThereisaGod

    When I was told about the non-existence of human gas chambers by a respected friend, I replied, You must be mad to say a thing like that.” After the shock I investigated the matter for myself. Now I know.
    What was presented in the above post is not ‘proof’. It is just one observation (amongst very many) of the startling ABSENCE of evidence. What you call “rubbish” is absolute fact. Check it out for yourself you lazy Councillor. Bodies poisoned by cyanide are invariably bright pink/red. ‘Google Image’ it. The exercise takes seconds. Not one prisoner or guard reported seeing such a body in the camps. Fact. Should this not astound you given the alleged numbers of dead?
    At the ‘Holocaust Denial’ Zundel trial in Toronto, Canada in 1985, the world’s foremost holocaust scholar, Raul Hilberg, was questioned as a witness. He was asked by defense counsel, Christie:
    “Can you give me one scientific report that shows the existence of gas chambers anywhere in Nazi-occupied territory?”
    “I am at a loss”, replied Hilberg.
    “You are because you can’t.” Christie said.
    There is also massive POSITIVE evidence that no such gas chambers existed in Auschwitz (chemistry of the walls, coke delivery records, even The Bletchley Park decrypts).
    The gas chamber that DOES still exist is not shown to tourists because it is tiny and was used for the delousing of inmate/workers’ clothes to prevent the typhoid transmitted by the lice it was built to kill. It was for keeping the inmates HEALTHY so they could work.
    You belong to the ‘Holocaustianity’ religion and you don’t even know it. Your parents worshipped Christ but you are devoted to the Satanic lie invented by the followers of His advesary, the global establishment … who hide behind the vastly amplified (and, therefore phoney) victimhood of ‘The Jewish People’. Unfortunately most Jews (but not all) are as ignorant of the truth as yourself. We live in an age when “truth” is established by repetition rather than facts.
    If you just walk away without investigating the matter for yourself you are in the right business, Councillor. A pea in a suicidal traitorous pod.

  • ted hagan

    You seem to be going along same lines as historian David Irving, who made similar claims about the Holocaust to the point he claimed it was exaggerated. That was until Irving was found to have distorted his own political ‘facts’, tried to portray Hitler in a less sinister figure, and was found by a court to be an antsemite and a Holocaust denier and racist. Most historians have put the figure between five and seven million.

  • ted hagan

    I find your post sinister, dangerous and malign.

  • ThereisaGod

    Why is it sinister, malign or evil to try to get people (including Jews) to study the facts behind the most shocking story (and intensive mass propaganda campaign) in human history. You find it those things because, like I once was, you have been totally brainwashed. Do you not think such a story, be it a lie (which it provably is), is VERY DANGEROUS indeed? Do you understand that Israel is the establishment’s modern golem in the Middle East and (were it not for the ‘Holocaust’) people would not hesitaste to recognise and oppose recent murderous wars that have been acts of destabilisation and regime change of Israel’s neighbours/enemies? WHY HAVE WE BEEN BOMBING TO NEAR THE POINT OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION secular countries like Syria and Libya? Because their leaders are evil men? Or because the west intends to destabilise, dominate and control (i.e. rob) the region?
    How old are you? Eleven?
    Check out the facts of the matter then get on your high horse.
    Ignorance of the facts is one thing. Moral cowardice is another.

  • Granni Trixie

    Can prejudice be overblown?

  • Granni Trixie

    You have put your finger on the button – Myers is essentialing a group of people.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Where have the Jews of Europe gone then?

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    On Twitter? Yes.

    Twitter is an outrage amplifier. Someone talking about prejudice or examining the details regarding someone accused of being prejudiced can find themselves open to abuse and hysteria.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Myers moved from the Irish Times to the Irish Independent many years ago, a move that in the immortal words of one commentator ‘improved both papers.’

  • andrew

    Myers was right on both fronts. But Britain and Ireland are lost in a quagmire of leftist, PC hypocrisy.

  • ThereisaGod

    Many books have been written on this subject by many academics on both sides of the argument. ‘Deniers’ (like me) deny the existence of the only element in the persecution of the Jews that makes their horrible treatment in any way unique (and, therefore, exceptional and ‘special’) …. the only element that elevates the holocaust into ‘ A RELIGION against which no heresy is allowed 9as you might have noticed) …. the human gas chambers.
    Today only ONE religion is “holy”. You can abuse Christ all you like but not this very tall tale.
    The sacrifice of Christ has been replaced by that of “the Jewish people” (the only god of The Talmud, by the way). Calvary has been transferred to Auschwitz, ‘The Cross’ has become “the human gas chambers”. This new religion has its prophets (Elie Wiesel etc), its Cathedrals (H museums) and its ‘Vatican’, Yad Vashem.
    It is about time people started asking questions that can be definitively answered, not issues that cannot be resolved (for all sorts of reasons). Study Auschwitz. Start with the film made by young Jewish lad, David Cole in 1991/2. Demonstrate that he is wrong. There are recoverable physical facts in play here. Real physical issues that CAN be resolved quite easily (if only we were allowed to do so):

  • andrew

    Irving was right, but his work and opinions have been censored by numerous courts throughout the ‘free world’. He still maintains, he still fights, studies and presents his case with clarity and a courage lacking in 99% of so-called historians. Just because the state silences you and regards your investigations as hallow, means very little when much of the state is run by those clutching on to a particular agenda that must be protected at all costs.

  • james

    Looking at what he actually said, and the totally disproportionate response, you may be right on the quagmire bit.

  • murdockp

    Having read Vanessa Feltz’s interview in the Guardian I am now aware of the racism and offence she suffered.

    I hold my hands up and say I was ignorant of the forms that cloaked racism can take. I shall be more tuned in in future.

  • lizmcneill

    ………….what the heck did I just read.

  • ThereisaGod

    Something that is utterly forbidden to utter in our culture. Heresy is as alive and well today as it was in Roman Catholic medieval Europe. Watch the documentary linked in the previous post. Start getting educated about the matrix in which you really live.

  • Get The Grade Get The Grade

    If this piece hadn’t appeared in the UK online Sunday Times there would have been little outcry at all which points out, markedly, the different sensibilities of Irish and UK audiences. Likewise I recall Melanie Phillips writing some incredibly anti-Irish stuff for the UK LondonTimes – clearly not intended for Irish audiences – that received quite a backlash from Irish online readers.

    If there is a lesson to be learned here, Mr. Murdoch should perhaps consider separate online presences for his Irish and UK publications? British Jews, understandably, want Myers punished, not quite grasping Myers wrote the piece in Ireland for an Irish newspaper. Mixing up output intended for different audiences and markets on the one news website inevitably leads to this kind of unedifying mess.

  • Hugh Davison

    No last hurrah with Vincent Browne, I’m afraid. Vincent retired last week.

  • Hugh Davison

    Why don’t you take a trip to Auschwitz. It’s near Krakow in Poland. You can get there cheaply with Ryanair.

  • J Vance

    Totally Agree, once it was three million, then four, then five, and now it’s six. Seriously??

    History can’t be held hostage by pandering to special interest minority revisionists (and I include irish nationalists/republicans in that category).

  • J Vance

    Maybe you should do your own research instead of playing the man?

  • J Vance

    To Israel/US ??

  • Hugh Davison

    Quite. In his article he went for women generally, as having less talent, don’t work as hard, don’t have the balls, always taking time off, getting pregnant etc. The usual mysoginy. The Jewish insult was just the icing on the cake.

  • J Vance

    Along with the late and great C.C.O’B, Myers was one of the few southerners who had the guts to question the murky origins of the irish free state, along with a willingness to kick down republican/nationalist shibboleths!

  • J Vance

    It seems that Myers would be in less trouble had he done to Feltz what Rolf Harris had!

  • J Vance

    Let’s hope that the Anti Defamation League in the states don’t hear about this!

  • J Vance

    I always admired Myers for an unparalleled ability to get the boot into slimy irish irredentist nationalists at any opportunity!

  • Devil Éire

    Jewish people in general earn more than any other religion.

    Fascinating. How did you come by this knowledge?

    In answering, please don’t invite me to do any original research. Since you have made this claim with such confidence, you should be easily able to describe the source(s) of information you used yourself. Stating that ‘it’s obvious’ is not sufficient since different people will not agree on what is ‘obvious’ and so evidence is required.

  • Hugh Davison

    Exactly what has your reply got to do with what I said?

  • Tochais Siorai

    Rubbish. Jewish immigration to the US during the Holocaust barely reached six figures along with less than 150,000 postwar refugees, in fact large scale Jewish immigration ended after the Immigration Restriction Act of 1924. Only about a third (2.5m) of Israel’s population come originally from Europe, and these include those who arrived before Hitler’s rise to power, those from Britain and those recent Russian arrivals, many of whom have very tenuous Jewish roots.

    The prewar Jewish population of mainland Europe was around 9 million, it’s now between a million and a million and a half.

    So again, where did they go?

  • Barneyt

    It matters little who the audience is. Are you suggesting he could hide his views in our edition and perhaps enjoy a captive and agreeable readership in us? I don’t consider his piece rascist but it’s a gross sectarian generalisation surely regardless of his journalistic hinterland

  • Paddy Reilly

    You probably mean sacred cows. A shibboleth is a spoken solecism, and so not amenable to being kicked down.

  • The worm!

    Why?

  • T J Denman

    Shut up, you silly old fascist.

  • Trasna

    Not half as murkey as the United Kingdom and later the United Kingdom of GB and Ireland and later again the UK and NI. Now there was a very murkey business indeed in every reincarnation.

    What will be the next title?

  • eamoncorbett

    There’s money to made in shitstirring Ted and these guys and girls know that , ask Hopkins or whatever her name is.

  • ted hagan

    You antisemites give me the creeps.

  • aquifer

    My understanding is that lots were shot or died from maltreatment before reaching any camp.

  • PeterOHanrahahanrahan

    I think the real scandal breaking here is that anyone is mad enough to pay Feltz 350K.

  • PeterOHanrahahanrahan

    “Intelligence”, “smartest”, “genius”, “superior talent”, “genetic trait of high intelligence”, and yet for all this, no apparent skills or advantages in negotiation? Am I reading you correctly here?

  • Paddy Reilly

    I do not know them all, but apparently the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland are not worried.

  • Lord spare us from the copy pasting holocaust deniers. Really mods, do we have tp read this utter fucking shite

  • Irving was wong, and has been proved so numerous times.

  • ThereisaGod

    Copy/paste my arse. Like you know a thing about it or even care you cowardly toad.

  • T J Denman

    I disagree. His work bringing attention to Irish history’s neglect of those men was very valuable. He was much of a lone voice at the time. But clearly he has lost the plot now.

  • The worm!

    Why don’t you take him/them on then rather than playing the “grossly offended” card.

    As someone who’s knowledge of the holocaust sadly goes little beyond the mainstream, I find him much more articulate, knowledgeable, and plausible than the hoards like yourself who seem to have little to counter with other than a shield of (probably fake) outrage.

    If all he’s doing is what you say, it should be pretty easy to tear him to pieces metaphorically, strange that no one has done it yet!

  • Zeno

    It has been researched and is easily checked on that internet thing. I can’t post a link now.

  • atttia

    Specific social skills or traits like being a good negotiator are not necessarily linked with high intelligence. They’re more a function of personality and personal priorities IMO.

  • Get The Grade Get The Grade

    No, I’m not saying he could hide his views in the Irish edition, more I’m making the point that Irish audiences are familiar with his views and can place them in some kind of context – he clearly is a defender of Israel, for example, and regular consumers of the Irish media would know this. (Thus, I believe not too many people in Ireland (including The Times Irish edition’s editor) would have been alarmed by Myers’ depiction of Jews.)

    I suppose I’m also trying to make a point which is more about Rupert Murdoch’s media presence in Ireland: this episode highlights the pitfalls of trying to splice the written content of two different national publications into one online product. People in the UK are in a state of confusion wondering who on earth Myers is and why the London Times are employing such people and publishing such articles – it’s all one big editorial mess with no one really knowing where the buck stops. Two distinct online sites would help clarify things.

  • john millar

    repeats
    Serious over reaction
    Myers referred to the Jewish stereotype of being good with /being careful with money and named a couple of prominent Jewish personalities/presenters . Had he referred to a similar Scottish stereotype and the traditional Scottish care of the bawbees whilst naming a couple of well paid Scottish personalities/presenters – would the same outrage have occurred. I think not

  • Mark Lewis

    As a Jew I am finding it really fascinating to read everyone’s views on my inherent characteristics, strengths and weaknesses. Frankly I thought I was just a regular guy. Given the prejudices against the Irish I thought you’d all be pretty much fed up with stereotyping. I know I am.

  • Devil Éire

    Yes, it is a fact that the income of Jewish people ranks very highly compared with those of other religions in the US and the UK.

    It is also true that reducing people to stereotypes based on their religion removes the possibility for the recognition of individual agency.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Where have the Jews of Europe gone then?

  • ThereisaGod

    Have you studied the issue yourself or have you learnt all you know from the mass media? It is very hard to believe that people would manufacture outright lies about such a thing. I understand that. However, investigate yourself and you will learn the truth. Discovering this has led me to conclude that Christ was absolutely correct. We are now (as the Jews were then) led by Satanists who intend to own the entire world. If you cannot perceive how this lie helps the banking classes do this think and study hard enough and you will understand. Or do you think westerners enjoy a state of continual wars because we care about the suffering of victims of wicked foreign leaders?

  • ThereisaGod

    Spot on.

  • ThereisaGod

    He change Hus name because of JDL death threats. Debunked by Hasbara liars (sorry, activists) like yourself.

  • ThereisaGod

    These numbers are contentious, controversial and much disputed. You answer the more straightforward question. How is it that not guard or inmate at any Camp was recorded as having seen the bright pink/red corpses that MUST (according to the official story) have been in transit from gassing to cremation in their millions? Why is the level of ferrocyanide in the walls of the alleged human gas chamber the same as the kitchens and dorms(2ppmillion) while the level in the hygienic gas chamber (killing lice on inmates’ clothes) is 5000 ppm? These are serious questions that require answers if the gas chamber narrative is to be believed. Maybe very large numbers if Jews died in the East. They were slaughtered end masse by locals who blamed them for the previous murderous Soviet occupation of their lands. However, there remains NO evidence supporting the existence if human gas chambers. All the actual evidence; material, documentary and apophatic is against their having existed. The facts MUST be aired. This issue could kill us all in the end. The globalist warmongers that threaten our children’s futures hide behind this lie.

  • ThereisaGod

    Yes. Its ash. What about the transit journeys, hasbara man.

  • ThereisaGod

    Irving, honest bulldog that he is, was very naive (or perhaps ‘romantic’) about British Justice. This is an ESTABLISHMENT lie. His trust that an establishment court would give him a fair hearing was misplaced. His opponent Lipstadt refused to take the witness stand. He knew why and so do many of the rest of us. Read the transcript sometime. It was a laughable verdict. Our society is owned by the worst criminals on earth. International globalist bankers want it all. Their current political instrument Zionism is only that. An instrument for destabilisation, warmongering and divide-and-rule. These people, though many are Jews, don’t care about the Jewish people at all, at all, at all.

  • ThereisaGod

    See above.

  • ThereisaGod

    You want Jews to believe a lie just because your own mind is habituated to it. You are the anti-Semite creep.

  • ted hagan

    As I said previously, you antisemites give me the creeps. What you are trying to say is that there was no Holocaust. You’re a denier.

  • Wikipedia gives you a reasonably reliable history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Victims_enumerated

  • Muiris

    I on the other hand, do agree with you. Many joined the BA for good, honourable, even idealistic reasons. Many had few ( economic) alternatives, I expect. The ‘one true Church’ of de Valera’s republicanism suppressed all other narratives, which K Myers did well to highlight.

    I don’t agree however, with equating the evil of the Nazis with any of it’s predecessors, lily white as none of them ( nor their opponents) were.

  • T J Denman

    Nutter alert.

  • Zack E. Nolan 2

    Quite funny thought that the guardians of super political correctness have been found to be hypocrites in their treatment of women.

  • Zeno

    Yeah I suppose it’s like saying Black Basketball Players are generally better at Basketball that non black basketball players.
    (You can be guaranteed that someone will be offended by that.)

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    Wikipedia is the least reliable source for historical information possible.

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    True, though they never released the actual stats on hours worked, audience figures etc. so it would be similar pay for similar work.

  • ThereisaGod

    Go back to sleep.

  • james

    Don’t worry – you won’t be required to be offended much longer.

    There’ll be a new ‘this-is-an-outrage’ from our overwrought Republican neighbours by about Saturday.

  • Devil Éire

    Welcome to the forum, Mark.

    Given the prejudices against the Irish I thought you’d all be pretty much fed up with stereotyping.

    I gather you’re new on here, so let me parse the situation for you.

    The Unionists ultras on here are convinced that any suggestion there is something wrong with Myers’ comments regarding Jews is simply a Republican plot to discredit his frequent negative portrayals of said Republicans.

    Hence James’ suggestion that you were ‘required’ to be offended, rather than accepting that, as a Jew, you might actually have been offended by (or just disliked) the stereotyping implicit in Myers’ comments.

    I’m afraid that on this forum, those comments (and your authentic response to them) are just grist to the mill for those who check under their beds for Republicans at night and see them in the wallpaper before they close their eyes.

  • If you see any particular piece of information in the article which I linked to that you think is unreliable, please do let us know. Paper encyclopedias like this https://www.britannica.com/event/Holocaust have uncannily similar information. I can find you considerably less reliable sources of information on the holocaust if you want them.

    The problem (yes it has happened) of organised teams trying to bias wikipedia is pretty damn off topic to the death toll in the holocaust as far as I can see.

  • Anyone still using that 6 million number is either a liar or just plain ignorant. Over 30 years ago Raul Hilberg put the number at 5 million and in 1998 dropped it to 2.8 million. There is no word Holocaust in the english language. That word is simply a marketing tool. Myers does state that millions of Jews were murdered in the camps and on the Eastern Front. More people should study the issue.

  • Deplorable Ulsterman

    No it isn’t. Probably more organised than most given the amount of $Jewish interests have in traditional media “sources”.

  • AJAX

    Storm in a tea-cup.

  • History isn’t usually called a traditional Jewish media source.

  • ThereisaGod