That time again…

No doubt over the next few days there will be television and newspaper coverage (and not forgetting the boul Facebook of course) that will once again portray Orangemen as evil and wicked two headed demons from the netherworld, whose sole reason for existence is to tramp poor Catholics into the mud. It is the perspective of many that it pretty much is the media narrative all the time in truth, but it will get that little bit worse now for a few days or so.

And you know what, despite that, tens of thousands of families will currently be preparing for the 12th. Tens of thousands of ordinary people without so much as a hair of malice in them will be out because it’s what they are. Its important to them, and no matter how many people tell them they are wrong and throwbacks to the past, it remains important. And HUNDREDS of thousands of their family and friends will gather to watch, because even though they aren’t in the actual ‘walk’, it resonates deep inside them that it is a part of their identity.

It is lawful, it is a legitimate form of expression, and it is certainly no more objectionable than the ‘expressions’ of many other sub-cultures/ quasi-political movements that we endure daily.

Orangemen on parade in the Province of Connacht on 9th of July 2017

At the weekend 100 Orangemen gathered in the Province of Connacht. They paraded unmolested to their church, and indeed returned unmolested or challenged. Connacht. Think about that for a minute.

The answer to ALL our issues in Northern Ireland can be summed up in one word…. toleration. Understanding would be better, respect would be desirable, but even if we can’t mutually muster those, a little bit of toleration would cure a lot of ills.

 

  • chrisjones2

    …and how is any of that relevant?

  • chrisjones2

    Whats the legislation please?

  • Skibo

    Ah Georfe you are a giggle. How can you be a rebel and be loyal?
    I had always assumed the rebel flag at bonfires was more to show how right wing and supremacist they were. Sort of explains how you can get a swastika and a Confederate and an Israeli flag in the one area.

  • chrisjones2

    ‘hate crimes’ are unlawful in some circumstances but not all. If there was a general prohibition many clergy would be arrested every Sunday

    Usually there must first be a crime eg threatening or abusive words in a public place , a public order offence or criminal damage AGGRIVATED by hate.

    Its perfectly OK for a preacher to stand in a pulpit and say ‘The Pope is the AntiChrist and his followers will burn in hell’ but not to run down the Isle of a Catholic Cathedral shouting that during a service there

  • chrisjones2

    And he is right ……..it can be a freedom of expression issue

    You dont like it. I think its crass and stupid but it may not be illegal

  • SeaanUiNeill

    The Ku Klux Klan’s original intend was to break Republican political organisation in the Southern States during the reconstruct era. Their developing ethos would have been anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic alongside their stance on colour. Their membership was exclusively Protestant and usually evangelical. In the 1950/60s their focus would have been to co-ordinate activity against the Civil Rights Movement. Interesting choice of parallel for the point you’re trying to make, Georfe!

  • chrisjones2

    Not trying to …just pointing out that there is no right not to be offended by the behaviour of others and ECHR imposes some controls on the freedom of expression but burning symbols on a fire attended by people who don’t object, in my assessment, aint one of them

  • Skibo

    George Washington was a self proclaimed terrorist, Nelson Mandela was a self proclaimed terrorist, the French Resistance were self proclaimed terrorists. Are you going to defend burning effigies of them all?
    I remember after Margaret Thatcher’s death and before it bonfires were lit in mining towns and her effigy was burned. I didn’t support that either.
    Unionist culture requires leaders at the moment, not people to defend what they know in their hearts to be wrong.

  • chrisjones2

    What about Guy Fawkes?

    In recent Labour Party demos in London people have carried effigies of the PMS head of a spike with blood flowing down. Should they be arrested?

  • Skibo

    Sorry for singling you out, I notice your condemnation of it earlier.
    What about the burning of stolen property, i.e. political posters?

  • chrisjones2

    Again …were they obtained by theft or abandoned or thrown away by the parties.Can anyone prove how they were obtained? Have those parties asked for them back?

  • SeaanUiNeill

    You are probably as unfamiliar with the inceptive role the northern troubles played, as you appear to be with what actually occurred in the north 1920-22. Certainly, the IRA during the war of independence soon followed the northern lead in burnings against, in their case, the Big Houses, but northern lead it clearly was.And in the north out was primarily constitutionalist IPP supporters and frequently Catholic ex-service men who were targeted, as the IRA were som negligible in 1920 that the assassins of Swanzy needed to be brought in from ten south.

    Notably, in 1911, Liberal Protestants questioned could claim that they were fully assured of perfect Catholic Tolerance because for a century the only sectarian rioting had been confined to the north, and that was regularly instigated by Protestant mobs. I’d read up on what occurred in 1920 before attempting to answer something quite particular with such a broad and imprecise generalisation. And I’m still genuinely puzzling over your odd “whataboutery” claim. I’ve simply been pointing out that your “political statement and freedom of expression” has some very significant political echoes which you appeared to not know about.

  • Skibo

    It is easier to show you what type of waste you are permitted to burn.
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/waste-exemption-d7-burning-waste-in-the-open
    Is anyone aware of any exemptions being registered for the burning of these bonfires?

  • chrisjones2

    A waste carrier’s license only applies to work in the course of business

    https://www.gov.uk/waste-carrier-or-broker-registration

    Health & Safety at Work – The clue is in the title – at work. It only applies to employers and organisations . I doubt that a community bonfire built by volunteers would be covered

    https://www.health-ni.gov.uk/articles/health-and-safety-work-northern-ireland-order-1978

    The burning of waste is illegal – that is true for some waste but bonfires themselves are NOT illegal. The Government says so

    https://www.gov.uk/garden-bonfires-rules

    Smoke etc may be a nuisance and you can complain to the council but as the Government advises

    “Your council can issue an ‘abatement notice’ if a neighbour’s bonfire is causing a nuisance. A bonfire must happen frequently to be considered a nuisance.”

    Again, if you want to deal with the REALITY of this situation you need to be clear what the rule says and what is and isn’t prohibited. There has been more hot air on this thread in the last 24 hours than from the bonfire on Sandy Row

  • chrisjones2

    Lots of groups get funds ….. including many republican and loyalist organisations, the OO, Sports Clubs, Irish Language & Ulster Scots Groups and SF Fronts run by ‘community leaders’

  • chrisjones2

    As the Lord Says ” By his Disqus Profile shall ye know him”

  • SeaanUiNeill

    See below, Chris. A very different history, so not actually comparable……the English are a few centuries past the seventeenth century nowadays, but, as my old “Bandon Protestant refugee” history master used to regularly tell us all in sixth form, we in the north are still living the seventeenth century with some intensity, especially on the “Twelfth.”

    I’d encountered that delightful piece of Corbynista pantomime you mention too! But I’d ask you to seriously consider, do you seriously think they will be singing “Ah! ça ira, ça ira, ça ira Ah!/ les aristocrates à la lantern!” in ernest two days from now as they tie the ropes and build the barricades? Both ends of our community have a great deal more “form” on such matters, and accordingly have to be taken far more seriously.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    That’s what I thought, I’m glad you explained your thoughts on the matter and I feel vindicated in using you and Oggins as examples to refute James’s whataboutery.

  • chrisjones2

    “alcohol is not part of orange culture”

    Dear Lord where do you live!!!!

  • murdockp

    Maybe my sacasim was again burried too deep.

    As I watch rampaging bigoted thugs lay waste to their own communities drunk and on drugs I wondered where the orange temperance movement fits into what I am watching.

    Seems to me even the OO have no control over the mob.

  • Skibo

    Chris, whether they were abandoned or stolen, the people who placed them on the bonfire would have been well aware that they did not own them.
    I would suggest the following for further reading:
    Section 11(1) Theft Act NI 1969
    Section 21(1) Theft act 1969
    Article 3(1) Criminal damage Ni Order 1977
    If the person owning the property has not given permission for their property to be removed and destroyed, then it is a criminal offence.

  • Zeno3

    I don’t know . There were never any bands there.

  • mac tire

    We know – Hillbillies.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Correct, the real question should be ‘are there any flammable round things within that could reach the PETROL station?’.

  • Accountant

    Flag burning attacks on SF and Alliance politicians, Celtic, Irish flag, etc. are pathetic. I found the ISIS flag (to be burnt) offering on the Sandy Row bonfire amusing and justifiable, but have reflected that it’s an attack on someone, so is also part of the philosophy needs to evolve.

    The bonfires also need to be in locations that don’t damage buildings.

    Other than that, they seem to me like an OK community gathering.

  • Skibo

    The problem is people are trying do defend the indefensible and it goes for both sides.
    As I have said, bonfires would be my biggest issue. Parades are not such an issue now but it took legislation with teeth.
    Bonfires can be resolved through the current legislation.
    Why can they not be replaced by a fireworks display, a children’s fete and a Church mission. I would have thought that would have been more representative of the community.

  • mac tire

    Ignore him on this point. Anyone who types “Not often but … it’s regular” is trolling.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Zigactly.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Perhaps, but its not nice. And it makes us look like the bad guys and garners international sympathy for nationalism so i’d rather they just used common sense…

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Explain please.

  • Oggins

    How is my comment sectarian?! Lol. Can you please tell me where I commented where I didn’t want any particular sect not to go to the gaa?

    My comments was in relation to your crappy statement that has regularly players and officials are beaten up.

    Chris your just a twisted internet troll. Who like to stir, and adds no valve to anything.

  • Accountant

    Last whataboutery, as it gets dull, but attacks on emergency services at 3am has to be put in context of 17 March, 31 December, or any Saturday night in Belfast.

    The effigies on the bonfires are dreadful, but for a gathering of hundreds of thousands the night before days holiday, some very limited trouble doesn’t surprise me – especially when the firemen were (almost certainly correctly) trying to put out their main attraction – same reaction as I have once or twice given to the barman at 3am when he’s told me I don’t need anything else.

  • Oggins

    So banners in relation to colour of peoples skin, election posters, which are stolen. Statements of KAT, ain’t kitty’s and tortoises.

    Get real if your that blinkered and you can’t see or call out the hate. You have been on here for two days whataboutery dot com. You can’t and won’t call out the sectarianism, your only words are what did Gerry and this and that.

    Some of us call out all sectarianism, whilst others like you can’t

  • mac tire

    Can I just add my voice that I have never attended nor organised any protest against OO marches. I fully agree with their right to parade, as long as they are not negatively impacting upon their neighbours.

    I am not against bonfires (I have made this point a few times over the last few days, so no need to labour it). I disagree with the burning of flags, emblems, posters and would prefer the bonfires were regulated (by people from their community) to ensure safety and no damage to property.

    Somehow this apparently makes me anti-British. I’m all for Unionism celebrating their culture by showcasing its positives, not as a vehicle which sometimes shows disrespect or hatred towards neighbours.

  • mac tire

    Sigh. Unionism is not a race.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Given that Chinese and coloured people have been the subjects of racist abuse at bonfires it would hardly be confined to sports.

    But, any one with half a brain can see that these are minority examples and if one is to give such leeway to bonfires (like you would) then logic dictates that the GAA be afforded the same leeway (which you won’t).

  • Skibo

    Where did the waste originate if not from a business? How did it get to the bonfire site?
    There is an exception which allows the Health and safety at Work act can be regulated on a voluntary organisation, when they are in control of a non-domestic premises. Is a car park a domestic premises?
    You are correct that there is no law against bonfires but there is on what can be placed on a bonfire and it is disingenuous of you to say “some waste” cannot be burnt, most waste cannot be burnt.

    Types of activity you can’t carry out
    You can’t:

    1)burn other types of waste other than those listed below
    2)bring waste from elsewhere to burn
    3)burn treated wood waste or wood waste coming from any source other than listed
    4)use this exemption to burn waste in an incinerator for disposal (see related exemptions)
    5)use this exemption to burn waste in a boiler to produce heat and power (see related exemptions)

    Types of waste you can treat
    The waste codes are those listed in the List of Wastes (LoW) Regulations. You need to make sure your waste fits within the relevant waste code and description.

    Waste code Type of waste
    020103, 020107, 200201 Plant tissue
    030105 Sawdust, shavings and
    cuttings from untreated wood
    only
    030301 Waste bark and wood

    So stop mixing up a regulation that is designed to allow the householder to burn the cuttings from hid hedge with what goes on on 11th July.

    If you want to deal with reality, then deal with reality.
    Do not ban the 11th celebrations, just bring them within the law.

  • Skibo

    Mac i agree with you bar the bonfires, the material they burn makes them illegal.
    Either the law is enforced or it is abandoned.

  • Skibo

    NO BANDS! At an OO parade? How is that possible?

  • Croiteir

    These gombeens

  • hgreen

    Desperate stuff.

  • hgreen

    In another part of the world mate, getting as far away from hatefest as possible.

  • grumpy oul man

    Uniinism is not a race, i am not calling all unionisrs scumbags just the one who do these thing and those who think its ok.
    You GF and some of the other unionists on this site are the ones making the claim that this is aboit all unionists.
    My wife is a unionist and shares my opinion of the people who think its ok to behave in thr way that yourself and some others are being apologists for.

  • grumpy oul man

    Thanks, GJ rarely gets his facts right.

  • grumpy oul man

    Very good, so one confederate flag in cork a while ago.if you had of read the link the president of the GAA spoke out against it and i dond think it happened again.
    Very good very relevent.
    Msybe they stole it from a loyalist lamp post.
    I was right earlier, you never have a point only Whataboutry.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    Good, 3 out of 4. Come on Neill, please don’t be at Ardoyne protesting…….

  • Zig70

    One thing that does bother me is the class aspect. The Orange seem to be giving no guidance and even using working class loyalists to the end where the only recourse to put a sensible head on sectarian effigies and loyalist flags are strict curbs. Let’s remember that the flags are just a symbol of the social acceptance of the groups they represent. Nationalists aren’t going to tolerate it, nor should they. The demands are growing on the psni and really they are way past looking impartial or competent in dealing with this. Unionist parties are contributing to the malaise with bonfires by supplying pallets from rates money. That is just a bizarre state of affairs. In some ways I think, yes, keep the finger on the self destruct button but then as usual, who actually suffers. The Orange just return to their poor churchmen guise and leave the rest to face it.

  • The Irishman

    Chris jones2 “Hes a Dubliner who lives in San Francisco – a plastic paddy wannabe with nothing else to do but sectarian trolling ”

    Is there no moderators on this sight anymore?

    Surely this is a gross breach of the rules?

  • mac tire

    My previous suggestions were that tyres should be banned. Or any hazardous material. I would hope that having them regulated properly by responsible people within any given community would enforce this.
    Nor should they be of ‘Tower of Babel’ dimensions. A safe, civil fire, I’m sure, is possible & desirable.

    Though, I understand your concern.

  • DOUG

    You can join the GAA

  • Zeno3

    Why would I be at an Orange Parade? I was surfing. You should try it.

  • Oggins

    Hahaha I read that Ardoyne went well today! READ! Not attended! I was cutting my folks hedges today!

  • Georfe Jungle

    You just might get a lot of sectarian abuse.

  • mickfealty

    See me in my office?

  • Barneyt

    Are you not confusing an ideology with the entity that claims to be of this leaning? Sf don’t represent republicanism just as the DUP or the orange order do not represent monarchism

  • Barneyt

    I suppose if the orange order has the name of a loyal deceased volunteer blazened across the lodge door then you could associate the order with loyalist terrorist/soldiers of whatever. There is an alignment between Irish republicanism and Irish sports. Like the oo and their active overlap with agents of death you perhaps had a similar cross over on the green side with their Shooty Gunny people. Do we say the oo is the uvf and the GAA the Ira? Perhaps unfair as in my experience they live breath and shite football and no doubt the oo members follow their musical traditions with the same fervour. I know many protestants that were kept from the 12th and all associated with it due to the clear association with loyal activists. Equally many perhaps could not join the GAA for similar reasons. The point you make is largely historical in nature however don’t the orange order have to say something about the uvf flags so they too can consign their perhaps dubious relationships to the past too?

  • Barneyt

    Well that’s not right particularly the medal bit. Medals go back to houses of different shades of green so potentially the child proudly holding the medal will get hurt. Such a medal would not have crossed my green door me thinks

  • Abucs

    Pretty fast paced there. Must be trying to make happy hour at the local.

  • Ruairi Murphy

    It is a fact that there are a sizeable number of non-catholics, whether it be protestants or people of other faiths or none, who enjoy membership of the GAA either as players, volunteers or social members without suffering any sectarian abuse or feeling in any way that their religion or lack thereof has an impact on their standing as a member.

    It is a fact that there are no non-protestant members of the OO and nor can there be as it would be in contravention to OO membership rules.

    To equivocate with the two organisations on sectarianism grounds is a gross distortion of reality.

  • Steven Denny

    Mike, the basic issue, however, still remains and we can not really get away from it. Joe Public CNR… sees the 12th as a coat trailing exercise in triumphalism, riddled with untermensch. Joe Public PUL, sees any critique as an attack, repels all boards in 2 ways, 1) our Culture, in effect culture war. 2) Equivocates with St. Paddy’s Day as a bargaining chip. I like to think of myself as fairly liberal… and absolutely detest both…they are an embarrassment and degrade us in their current form.

  • catholicus

    My issue isn’t with particular bad behaviour but with the central idea of the Orange Order and the Twelfth, which is to celebrate Protestant ascendancy over Catholics. That’s why it was set up and why it continues. It also explains why the atmosphere is rather different in Rossnowlagh, because there is no ascendancy to celebrate anymore.

    As for bonfires. Of course kids love bonfires. But these aren’t kids’ bonfires. These are on an industrial scale, using pallets that are, I presume, mostly stolen from somewhere, or worse, paid for with council grants.

  • MainlandUlsterman

    I’m sure offence was taken at that, rightly so. The police should come down on that like a ton of bricks. But I was refering to a specific compromise reached a few years ago where the OO agreed to march in the very early morning without bands in silence and residents still objected “on principle”, as they ultimately just didn’t want the OO marching down “their” road at all. That was what I was referring to as the culture of taking offence getting absurd.

  • MainlandUlsterman

    Yes, I don’t condone sectarian hatred at bonfires or anywhere else. But I think there is a healthy place for hatred, properly directed – let me explain.

    I think hatred of the terrorist past is very healthy – I would encourage people across civil society of both traditions to show more of it. I am quite serious about that. For me glorifying what terrorists did in the Troubles should be treated like the far right have been in post-war Germany: the proper object of social rejection, intolerance and even suppression. But hate the behaviour not the people – accept that people can change and allow them to reject their former support for evil acts –
    and this is the key, go out of your way to hate it when it comes from your own side as much as the other side.

    Then we can really get reconciliation going, based on our real common enemies – paramiltarism, sneaking regardism, terror apologism, the denigration of the vast amount of honest and brave anti-terror security work that went on during the Troubles years. These are the things we need to come together to reject together, that really perpetuate sectarian hate – whatever colour our flag, whatever our national allegiance and whatever our personal experience. I’d like to see bonfires on which we would throw the banners of the IRA, UVF, INLA, UFF all together. If there’s a problem with Loyalist bonfires it’s not the burning of symbols of the IRA it’s the failure to also burn the symbols of Loyalist paramilitaries.

    Hatred is not wrong in itself – it’s what you hate that matters. So I can’t condemn people for hating the Republican Movement for its terrorism and now terror apologism – but I will condemn them if they don’t apply the same standard to their own Gerry Adamses and Martin McGuinnesses.

    Showing hatred for the evils of society is not only OK, it is healthy and it is not only that, it is essential before we can properly address and move on from those evils. A political class, or civil society, that tells people it’s wrong to hate the IRA, or the UVF, or members of the security forces acting like terrorists, will never lead people to a better place. Those are natural, even good, human reactions – work with them. What we need to encourage is the recognition of and, yes, equal hating of the wrongs ones own ‘side’ has perpetrated.

    In summary, it’s not the hate that’s wrong – it’s the failure to consistently hate the right things, fairly.

  • Oggins

    Hatred is wrong full stop, be it of terrorists, government, people,parties etc. Hatred is a negative emotion that has no benefit to the wider society.

    Acceptance, forgiveness and the ability to work with people to build a better future is a better use of time.

    You obviously still have lingering issues with the troubles and I am sorry to see that. We have all been affected. I can’t see it in me hate loyalists, the state, unionism, nationalists or republicans. I can’t see a positive response out of this.

    I think your are using the issues with the past to justify your hatred of the now. How can we hate each other when we are meant to be working in a government. How can we?!

    We need to learn to develop a norm, an acceptance of where we are at now and why we are here.

    I honestly can see a benefit to hatred. To be honest I am Disappointed if you feel this way

  • The Irishman

    Nice post Oggins.

  • MainlandUlsterman

    I hope I made a decent argument about hatred of injustice and suffering being positive forces that can be harnessed. You can’t and shouldn’t stop people hating terrible things. Don’t tell them they’re wrong, they’re not – tell them to hate more things, fairly. That gets them.

  • Oggins

    You haven’t mate, even i, who is not religious knows that most religions do not teach hate as a positive force. It s completely negative in its approach, it is an emotion or mindset.

    I think you are grasping at a justification for your own hatred towards certain parts of our society.

    I would not tell someone to stop hating something, but I would tell them to look at the reason for the hate.

    There are plenty of good reads breaking down hatred due to insecurity of oneself. Afraid of a difference, not understanding why something has happened.

    Sorry MU,you cannot justify hate. There is no logic for it. There is no evidence in our planet to show hatred as being positive. Is is not an a step in which we all must to take, it’s is a mindset and emotion that takes away from understanding and healing. You are really grasping at straws

  • MainlandUlsterman

    Not at all – I hope I’m saying something new here that I actually believe in, not just doling out platitudes. I’m not Christian either, but even the religion of “turning the other cheek” also says “love the sinner, hate the sin”.

    You can’t wish away hatred, you need to understand it and break it down. And when you do, you can end up in one of two places: one where you hate nothing at all or one where you de-generalise a hatred, reducing to hating things that are healthy to reject. It’s great if you can achieve the former, but I’m saying it’s not the only way; and the latter approach has the benefit of working with negative feelings and transforming them towards positive ends, rather than simply trying to deny them any place.

    It’s a different approach to transformation, that’s all I’m saying, and I think one that might actually stand a better chance of getting through to the people who need to change the most, because it harnesses and channels negative feelings rather than sticking a thumb in the dyke, as it were. There is a lot of suppressed rage in NI society I think and I think there’s a big need to understand it and process it. It’s important we don’t demonise people for feeling things anyone in their shoes would feel.

    What we need to do is help them appreciate that others feel as they do with equally just cause. Their feelings are not wrong, and we aren’t seeking to deprive them of that agency over their own emotions – that is the denial of humanity, not life-enhancing – these feelings rather need to be directed at the right things. That is, stopping terrorism, stopping abuses, injustice etc, not just railing at people for their religion or nationality.

    Meanwhile, those still making excuses for terrible acts need to understand that they will be marginalised and face opprobrium when they do that. We in the centre have been too easy on them, too nice – and civil society has suffered as a result. It’s OK to hate poisonous sectarianism, racism, violence. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

  • Oggins

    Your talking/typing nonsense. Any shrink would be reading your statements and laugh at it.

    Your contradicting yourself by identifying the need to process it and say it ends up at hate? So recognise the hatred, accept the hate and your a better person. So is it ok to hate someone on their colour of skin, religion, sexuality as long as they process it?

    Hate is a dead end emotion or state of mind, that does not bring about closure. It is ok to hate the Irish Tricolour or the UJ because what has been done in the past? No! So when Micháel or Samuel is walking down Dublin, or London and see the flag they hate, they go to themselves, that is a good feeling. I appreciate that my hate is justified due to xxxx doing xxx in the name of that flag.

    MU you are really digging a hole to justify your own hatred. Your digging a hole because you have issues with parties, groups and people. Fundamentally you have hatred towards something and you feel it is fine to do so. Your obviously not in a stage to process that hate. Your clearly stuck on it.

    You can’t justify hatred, many a professional has written many a paper on it. To claim other wise is yourself being so stuck in admitting so.

  • LighterSide…

    I’m glad to see this post. As a Canadian, I see the historical purpose of the marches like most outsiders do—as an attempt to cow the minority(not anymore) into submission and put aside any notions of uprisings like their ancestors have been prone to over the centuries. Obviously a display of supremacy and demonstration of the need to know one’s place. I can march down the road booming my boom-boozler and you can’t.
    I was disappointed years ago to see some of the nationalist community on Slugger go to pains to justify the marches and claim that outsiders just don’t understand the sitcheeayshun. To me, it sounds like an abused wife apologizing for her psycho husband…”He really means well…”
    It’s nice to be tolerant, but sometimes a spade needs to called a spade.
    By the way, John Millar, neither the RC church nor the GAA close the roads to celebrate their beliefs.

  • Georfe Jungle

    “so objecting to burning of my political and cultural symbols”

    So Sinn Fein posters are your cultural symbols………..

    How utterly sad……….

  • Skibo

    MU that is what happened this year. Unfortunately they still wanted to march in the afternoon and if the Parades Commission had not ruled against it, they would have still marched and taken their rowdy fans with them.
    If the OO had stated that they recognise the homeward parade was the problem and said they would refrain from it there would have been a solution a long time ago.
    The OO has never been proactive in trying to solve the problem, always reactive.
    They have rules and regulations on their parading past catholic Churches and certain bands continuously ignored them. If they had martialed their own rules, numerous flash points could have been averted.
    This is one reason I believe bonfires can not be left to self regulating. There needs to be policing of the existing laws and all bonfire problems would be gone.

  • Skibo

    Not what I would have found. It is actually the opposite.people form outside the normal catchment area of the GAA are highly respected. There will be the occasional banter if they go on to score a point to beat your team.
    I remember coming home from Clones after a match wearing our GAA regalia and having to pull into Clogher to go to the toilets. There were a number of young lads up on a wall in Rangers jerseys giving hand signals to the cars and as we pulled in and jumped out of the car, they scarpered. When we were coming back out the braver ones were peaking back to see if we had gone. I started talking to them about Rangers and soccer in general and we had a bit of craic. I hope it changed their idea of what a GAA fan was. Perhaps going to a GAA match might help your attitude also. Be aware you may see a Tricolour flying as it is an All Ireland association.

  • Theelk11

    https://youtu.be/ex78dBceVV8

    its terrible so it is
    your perception is just that… any of these people welcome at the bony?

  • Theelk11

    https://youtu.be/ex78dBceVV8

    the bony is the spot for these people eh Georf?
    they’d love the craic

  • Tochais Siorai

    Cork fans seem to have a tradition of bringing all kinds of red & white flags to games I’ve seen them with Danish, Japanese, Croatian flags. They’re a strange lot down there.

  • Skibo

    Ah Cork I do love Cork!

  • john millar

    “So you wouldnt have a problem putting the union flag on a nationlist bonfire.
    After all look at the killers that hid behind that.
    Or we could if not put the past behind us we could stop deliberately offending our nieghbours.
    No opinion on the relegious symbols or effigies, what about the alliance and sdlp posters or secterian slogans,
    Whats the reason for those..”

    Can do no more than quote the “blessed Gerard ”
    “understandable in the circumstances”

  • northstar

    Petty technical points cannot hide the OO being a vehicle for hate.

    http://belfast-child.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/orange-order-myths-lies-distortions.html

  • LordSummerisle

    Yes don’t let petty technical points spoil an emotional statement.