“We cannot complain about the Irish State or its Constitution. It protects our rights.”

From the Irish Times which is worth reading about the Orange Order and how they operate in the South.

The entire article is worth a read but this comment about the Irish constitution is worth highlighting

A past master and current chaplain of the lodge, he says he could not ask for more protection from the State for his freedom of expression. “It’s fantastic. See the Irish Constitution, article 40.6.2: free assembly under the law without bearing arms. We can assemble 40 brethren out on that road with collarets on, with no parades commission, so we cannot complain about the Irish State or its Constitution. It protects our rights. In the South, pluralism and openness is the best friend of Orangeism in my book.”

 

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  • Tuskar Rock

    Yes. It’s our national anthem. Come down here, you’ll hear it played – and even sung – on certain occasions, especially public ones. I fear it is unlikely that we’ll refrain from playing or singing it on such occasions whether or not “many unionists” find it “unacceptable”; so you may learn to live with that fact.
    Moreover, whatever the IRFU decides to do – which is their business, after all – I and my fellow countrymen and women expect visitors to our country to have respect for it, and for our national flag too, whether they appeal to them or not. The “acceptability” or otherwise of either to them is utterly irrelevant.
    Them’s the breaks. You visit my country, you show appropriate respect for it.
    There are alternatives of course.

  • hollandia

    I have given my opinion. At least twice at this point.

  • sparrow

    That’s a more partitionist post than I’ve encountered from most northern unionists on this blog. ‘Visitors to our country’?? Please.

  • Karl
  • Stifler’s Mom

    Rights are protected in NI also. The issue is what happens when one section of the community decides it doesn’t like the other and blocks or intimidates their activities. The OO, and protestants in general, in the south operate by keeping their heads down and not upsetting the catholics, that is not the same as demanding your rights and getting them.

  • Tuskar Rock

    “Partitionist” – what’s that supposed to mean? More humbug, that’s what,
    I think – as though the objecting to the fact that our anthem and flag
    are insulted by so-called loyalists and unionists, degraded by so-called
    republicans and disrespected by Ireland’s so-called soccer supporters,
    and demanding that they be respected within the de facto political
    setup, is somehow “pro-partition”? Please!
    Unionists and loyalists do
    not regard the Republic as “their country”, but the least we may expect
    of them if they visit what they regard as “our country” is that they
    behave as they would wish us to behave in the opposite were the case.
    Partition
    is a legal fact; the island is cruelly divided and likely to stay that
    way, whether I or you like it or not. So spare me the humbuggery.
    We
    are drowning in a stagnant lake of humbug, north and south. The first to
    draw from it are always politicians, followed by “fíor-Gaeil” (and one
    supposes, true-blues or what-have-you on the other side) and then The
    Keepers of the National Flame as I like to call them (and their opposite but equally Skibbereen-Eaglish fellows on the unionist side), of whom the less
    said the better, for all the good any of them have done on anything to
    do with creating a better, more open, more pluralist, more honest and
    more truly Irish society in a positive sense.
    Partitionist my Fenian arse.

  • sparrow

    Referring to the 26 counties as ‘our country’ and drawing a distinction between it and the 6 north eastern counties is partitionist, whether your Fenian arse likes it or not. Partition may be a legal fact, but we don’t have to affirm or support its status by accepting and using the terminology of those who imposed it upon us.

  • Tuskar Rock

    And nor is it “partitionist” to do so. It’s a fact of life, whether you like it or not, which was (a) accepted by a democratic majority in the Dáil in 1922 AND (b) included in our Constitution by referendum in 1998; so we are stuck with it, we MUST accept it, and MUST work onward from that acceptance if we are ever to hope for reunification. It’s worth noting that a growing number of people in the Republic are now utterly indifferent to the ultimate political fate of Northern Ireland, I suggest because there IS a growing acceptance of its status here.

    Moreover any – or, your – contention that acceptance or affirmation of the status quo is “partitionist” can be turned on its head. I suggest that it is YOU who is “partitionist”; because by denying, or refusing to accept or acknowledge, the legitimacy of the legally and constitutionally accepted status of Northern Ireland, you are legitimising the unionist case against re-unification. Indeed, I seem to recall that this very attitude is one of the principal sources of antagonism between the communities in the north.

    Worse still, you imply that the 1922 vote and 1998 referendum in the Republic were both partitionist, and that consequently this state is in some sense illegitimate. I will go further, and suggest that your “argument” is another way of saying that the entire Republic, by virtue of its very existence is “partitionist”. This is classic Sinn Féin agitprop, which, I notice, they are very careful not to push in the south. More humbug.

    Finally I contend that you too are still deep in humbug territory; and you may rest assured that my Fenian glutea maxima are fine and comfortable thank you.

  • mickfealty

    I’m hoping to get a clip of a three way conversation between myself Matt Cooper and Padraig Mac Lochlainn this evening on Today FM out on Slugger. I’ll have a few comments of my own add in a blog on the matter.

    Some perceptive soul pointed out on another thread, this is groundhog day again (only instead of getting better, it seems to be getting worse). What are we doing that we need to do less of, and what are we not doing that we need to do more of?

  • sparrow

    Of course partition is a fact of life, only a fool would argue that it isn’t. However, while I accept the legal status of partition, it doesn’t always follow that what is legal is either just or morally right. You talk of a democratic majority, but no genuine democratic mandate was ever given or received for the division of this country. There hasn’t been a free and fair vote on the constitutional status of Ireland, involving all the people of this island, free from external interference, since before the foundation of both states. Let us have such a vote and all of us would happily accept the verdict of the people of this island. We both know, however, that there will be no such vote and we both know the reason why: roughly 14 or 15% of the island’s population, based mainly in the 6 north eastern counties, refuse to let it happen because they know they wouldn’t like the outcome. In the past they have threatened violence and they have used violence to prevent such an outcome and in their obduracy they have been supported by our large, powerful neighbour to the west of us. More power to your Fenian arse.

  • 05OCT68

    What exactly is unacceptable about Amhrá na bhFiann?

  • Gary Da;ze;;

    Perhaps if the protestants and OO in the south denigrated the ROI as a failed state; ran a 30 year bombing and murder campaign against it and then demanded the right to march down O’Connell St there might be a valid reason for objection. However, they didn’t so they’re permitted to walk to a beach in the backwoods of Donegal. It’s really big of the ROI state to permit that. Self congratulations all round.

  • Oggins

    Whataboutery.

  • DOUG

    What if some of the players are involved in the fights? Help arrange the fights?
    Just to stretch the football analogy a little further?

  • DOUG

    It’s not that funny.

  • DOUG

    Chris, accepting the duplicitous nature of Gerry’s Trojan Horse etc.
    Have you considered that if “safety” and “equality” could conceivably be used as ” weapons ” to undermine a specific group or culture, then maybe said group or culture needs to take a look at why that is?

  • Tuskar Rock

    What’s stopping them? As long as any parade is peaceful and not likely to cause a breach of public order it will get permission – so spare us the propagandising. You clearly either haven’t read the article or are suffering from confirmation bias.

    FAIR did get permission for a parade in Dublin a while back. but a crowd of pseudo-republicans, many from the North, turned it into Donnybrook Fair. If the OO wants to parade, there would be questions, quite rightly.

    But the OO is not FAIR and would not have a problem. Clearly this would challenge some people’s biases.

  • Georgie Best

    Protestants in general in the 26 counties have no wish to upset anyone and regard the OO as an embarrassment. Some of the discussion here would suggest that these good folk are not Protestant enough for some people.

  • Georgie Best

    Protestants in general in the 26 counties have no wish to upset anyone and regard the OO as an embarrassment. Some of the discussion here would suggest that these good folk are not Protestant enough for some people.