UK Government produces #Brexit White Paper

The UK Government had just produced its Brexit White Paper which can be read here

The text dealing with Ireland and the Common Travel Area comes to a grand total of 3 pages with two key commitments which are listed below;

4.9 We are determined that our record of collaboration, built on shared experience and values and supported by personal, political and economic ties, continues to develop and strengthen after we leave the EU.

4.10 We will work with the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland Executive to find a practical solution that recognises the unique economic, social and political context of the land border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. An explicit objective of the UK Government’s work on EU exit is to ensure that full account is taken for the particular circumstances of Northern Ireland. We will seek to safeguard business interests in the exit negotiations. We will maintain close operational collaboration between UK and Irish law enforcement and security agencies and their judicial counterparts.

 

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  • Kevin Breslin

    If you actually listen to the content rather than the passion of Leave politicans speeches you can tell that they are not political heavyweights, just political deadweights.

    “Where’s the plan? Where’s the plan?”

    I actually feel embaressed for England, a nation that I want Northern Ireland to dissociate with. Nothing has really changed, you still have the same incompetence and lack of strategic thinking on display.

    The shambles of using identity is quite ironic when the English cannot identify any solutions to the endless number of complaints it has about its international and domestic affairs that a rational nation could actually buy into.

    Our lot in Northern Ireland aren’t any better … The DUP you get

    “Where’s the opportunities! It’s biased! This paper should mention the opportunities!”

    They actually believe that Europe should revolve around Britain, and Britain should revolve around the Brexit movement. I should really call it the Brexit stagnation because that’s what it feels like.

    They have absolutely no clue as to how Britain keeps itself running over.

    When your desire is obedience not compromise then it’s time to give mad King George the heave ho!

  • Kevin Breslin

    The UK is making the best of its continuing EU membership and the complainers are using that to justify their cause.

    Mark Carney introduced the reduced pound, but I guess for some mad superstitious reason to do with British soverignty you will take personal credit for that.

    You give Mark no credit on his judgement call and his instincts, you attack his vigalence, yet mock him for the fruits of his intervention.

    Economists for Brexit didn’t want Quantative Easing, neither did the gutter press. Now they’ve jumped on Mark Carney’s bandwagon when things go well.

    It really is quite pathetic.

    It’s like a Leicester City fan claiming he won the league then jumps to supporting Chelsea the next season.

    The sad thing is that it doesn’t matter to Leicester City or Chelsea who he or she supported in the greater scheme of things. They didn’t have to do the hard work.

  • John Devane

    Brexit will be a raging success free from the shackles of an ever more dysfunctional EU.

    Your scaremongering reads like a Remainers charter before 23rd June 2016. All doom n gloom if the UK left the clutches of the evil empire.

    You need to get over yourself and accept it. Deal with its reality or carry on moaning like your delusional hero Timothy Farron.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Fine, more platitudes I see. If you can’t do anything then talk about it.

    That seems to be the way of the Leave movement, words speak louder than actions.

    You can see why the UK is so reliant on the creative industries, since all it makes is entertainment.

    And on the plus side, Brexit is a comedy of errors the world should treat in good humour.

    What other nation thinks only fools and horses work?

  • John Devane

    Lol you seriously think Scotland would be better off breaking away from the UK on the off chance EU membership will be offered. Big gamble. I assert it won’t happen

  • John Devane

    You have been bought hook line and sinker by your EU over lords. Time will tell. Your negative predictions IMHO apply more to the EU itself. Unlike Theresa May I do not think it can survive in its present form. Perhaps the UK’s brave decision will make the EU wake up. I really doubt it

  • Kevin Breslin

    The EU will continue on without you and people like you will have no say in its development I would imagine.

    Based on what you seem to offer in terms of reforming the United Kingdom to be better, I can confidently say that losing the likes of you is beneficial to the EU and a handicap to the UK that you remain.

    For 41 years the Leavers mostly lived in the UK and could have improved the lives of the average Briton. All they offer though is a cocktail of scare stories, jingoism and false promises.

    A reflection of the problems they create. They will not run from scrutiny, neither will those who voted to Leave out of gulliblity find any solice from the UK government’s future failings on the international stage being the byproduct of its government’s own agency.

    You drink it up this cocktail if you want to. There’s no way I’m touching the Leaver’s buttermilk with a 40 foot barge pole.

  • John Devane

    So I take it you remain a die hard EU loyalist more out of blind obedience than any rational thought. Your EU loyalism is coloured more by a visceral hatred for the UK. Your bitterness against the Brexit successful campaign to dismember the EU is plain to all. Perhaps when the EU confronts its own systemic problems too numerous to repeat, you will see the error of your judgement.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Oh I don’t hate the UK, I feel very sorry for it being run by the government it has listening to the old political hasbeens from Conservative party past from Portillo to Farage, from Lawson to Nutall, from Ashcroft to Carswell.

    Failures then, mastering the next British failure now.

    Their own scientists question their retreat from modernity
    Their own industrialists question their retreat into isolationism
    Their own financiers question their retreat into protectionism
    Their own allies in Europe question their good faith.
    Their own parties are in rebellion, even UKIP.
    Their own nations are pulling apart from the sense of union.

    Whatever happens the European Union, the United Kingdom has got a lot of its own problems to deal with, and the story tellers in the Leave movement will run to the hills if they have to deal with any of it. Best to avoid the plague of fiction writers and pub philosophers having hold of the steering wheel.

    Complaining about the EU or flagging about wont save a hospital, just deflect from the government who executes such an unpopular decision.

    You might call it The Great British Fake Off.

  • John Devane

    The decision to Leave the EU was not some fringe right wing movement. It was from across the political spectrum.

    The UK far from retreating from the world it will embrace it without the shackles of your beloved moribund EU.

    The rest of your post is just clichéd ultra left nonsense. Concentrate on reforming your EU superstate.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Just another story John, just another story. And the first step to embracing the world is to admit to yourself the stories were all lies.

    The right wing lunatic fringe are at the helm, bitter failed Tories trying to make right what once went wrong by doing the same stupid things over again and expecting a different result.

    No one is bothering to learn new cultures or discover new markets out of being inspired by the beer swellers and the paranoid little Englanders. An insular movement for insular ideas.

    Inches instead of centimetres
    Attacking Poles and Muslims
    Indulging in the Blame game
    Where is the internationalism you are talking about?

    Does this mean the Leavers are going to increase the number of countries they blame stuff upon, or foreign nationals they attack in the street … I don’t want any of that international hate campaign, I have enough of it here in Northern Ireland.

    Brexit is a little fantasy land where leavers change the world whilst refusing to change themselves.

    No one cares about the stories that English people tell one another beyond their shores. They are pointless figments of no commercial value.

    If the UK want to turn their nation into a full scale panic room, it will be left to those outside to deal with all the external stuff anyway, people like me though I wouldn’t want to boast too much about that.

    To me though it just seems Leave politicans and a lot of their supporters don’t have nerves of steel, but brains of lead.

    Even a humble electrician from Reading won’t be able to blame their stupidity on the European Union any more.

  • Kevin Breslin

    The English aren’t a race, even though some who voted Leave think them to be a Master race. 😀

  • John Devane

    Spoken like a true EU loyalist. A Remoaner with the same tired old failed analysis that lost you the referendum.

    Your anti Brexit stereotypes and for some reason known only to you, your anti English insults speaks volumes about you. It doesn’t address the real reasons why Brexit won. You’re not really interested in discussing them. Instead you rant some ultra left wing nonsense and engage in personal insult as a substitute for reasoned argument. You’ve been humbled by facts you simply cannot argue against.

  • John Devane

    You”re the one making the unwarranted insults based on country of origin. Again try to play the ball not the man

  • John Devane

    More incoherent rambling. Your hatred for England knows no bounds. Get over it. Brexit is going to happen. The EU is a trade block that got too big for its boots and needs to be given the heave ho!

  • Kevin Breslin

    More and more stories, Brexitland may as well be Hogwarts or Discworld or some other elaborate fantasy land.

    I like England, I like Brian Cox and their science traditions, I like Radiohead and Muse, I like Premier League football and I like my English cousins one of which works in the Bank of England. Which is why this issue slightly bothers me.

    The very attitude behind the Leave side is so full of sour entitlements and negative attitudes to foreigners, it is a hate campaign that is scared of taking responsibility for its own actions.

    I’m ashamed of this England, and if Ireland behaves in this gombeen manner, I would be ashamed of it as well.

    Being rowdy isn’t a revolution, it’s just what we call in Ireland The Crying Game.

    Congratulations, The Crying Game won. The U.K. has all the freedom to be pathetic, soverignty to be pathetic and independence to be pathetic all through its own agency.

    Seriously look how pathetic Gove and Farage are even in victory.

  • Fear Éireannach

    Leave lies, The campaign did not state that is necessary or appropriate to leave the single market

  • John Devane

    Condescending insults and attitudes like yours are precisely why you lost the EU referendum. Brexit is not some rabid right wing movement. It’s just anti EU after forty years plus experience inside it.

    You’ve shown your true colours too

  • Kevin Breslin

    Oh I need a warrant now to call out the English right wing supremacists who voted Leave to get the Poles and “Moslims” out … Oh I’m sure those saints in the Leave side who think these poor people are redeemable. Fair play if they can lead these lost souls into the light, but when I hear the likes of Farage, Johnson, Gove, Hopkins, pretty much anyone enthusiastic about Leave they seem to be spreading darkness and fear, and offer nothing hopeful in their actions.

    Even their smiles are fake, their convictions are fake, their insights to the rest of the world seem to be fake as well.

    I’m happy to praise racists who acomplish things … William Shockley helped discover the transistor, but clearly didn’t like the blacks though.

    I’m happy to change my mind on any of the above if there’s any EVIDENCE they can do anything but talk nonsence.

    The nicest thing I can do to their nonsence is laugh at it.

    See I’m not prejudiced against bigots, I’m happy to give them credit on their efforts alone.

  • John Devane

    Kevin you deliberately stereotype Brexit as xenophobic and racist. Yours is the classic case of paint your opponent as beyond the pale and then use standard anti racist arguments. It’s not working.

    You haven’t once acknowledged the real reasons for Brexit. You haven’t engaged in any meaningful discussion because you’re too caught up in your pro EU love affair. And your perspective is confined. You only see the negative effects without ever once expressing any doubt in the direction of travel the EU is taking; a doomed road.

  • Kevin Breslin

    You must be joking. The U.K. did well out of the EU and held their own within it.

    It’s the greedy rabid right wingers that are saying the UK is going to be the envy of Europe if we go out waving flags and keep on complaining about “Johnny Foreigner interfering with our precious English way of life.”

    It’s all wrapped up in anti-EU language, but these sentiments still would exist regardless of the EU, and they will come out the same way. The merest treaty is treason.

    There really is no substance to Brexit beyond that. Look at the lack of a plan, this was NEVER about the UK taking responsibility for itself and inactions speak louder than noisy words to me,

  • John Devane

    Again you’re trying unsuccessfully to portray support for Brexit as bigoted. Play the ball not the man.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I really feel sorry that the UK is being ruled by fickle idiots trying to please newspapers even if it puts several British jobs at risk perusing what seems almost to be a pseudoreligious vendetta.

    Imagine if previous UK governments had been enslaved to The News of the World just before it jumped off the cliff face.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Support for Brexit does seem to be based on anti-EU bigotry, anti-Muslim bigotry, anti-refugee bigotry and pretty much anti-establishment bigotry too.

    All the positives were all lies, lies told by liar politicans.

    They’ve done very little to convince me otherwise.

    I don’t need them, and I don’t need you.

    The sad thing is a bunch of pathetic frustrated people and only create stories to deal with their problems.

    I’m a scientist I have to deal with reality, not the imaginary problems like the Brexit artists seem to ponder and pander on a daily basis.

    For crying out loud take a diazepam if you have to blame Europe for every problem in your mind.

  • Kevin Breslin

    The usual I’m going to psychoanalyse you if you try to psychoanalyse my precious Brexit “movement”

    Go ahead and psychoanalyse me all you want like the rest of the Sigmund Frauds in the Leave “movement”.

    I have nothing but contempt for the waste of time politicans who blame the EU for thousands of nonsensical issues, and if you want to waste your life psychoanalysing political opponents rather than take responsibility and actually do something positive for the movement that you actually claim to believe in I won’t stop you.

    It seems like you are just stopping yourself here.

    It must be really indeering to all those people, all around the world, seeing this glorious vision of Brexit to see 1/17 million of those who voted for it struggling to highlight one positive contribution he would make to this country when “unshackled” by the EU.

    It really must be something really mysterious to see what Brand Brexit Britain offers the non-British world to realistically back up the empty unsubstantial platitudes of the Leave campaign.

    The answer I feel is nothing, you just want me to thoughtlessly vindicate your opinions. I’m happy to be part of the European Community, even if you struggle like so many British Brexiteers to improve the British Community.

    I have faith in myself without the need for vindication, I’m happy to be judged on the fruits of my efforts and the futility of my mistakes. I don’t drink so I can be judged eternally on what I do. I’ve no faith in the sycophants behind Leave who’ve done nothing in international relations to offer any me any confidence in them.

  • John Devane

    So you have some noble contribution to make and its dependent on EU membership or some vague notion of European community……Sounds like bullshit to me.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Je suis un Européen, mais à mon avis vous n’êtes pas un globaliste britannique

  • John Devane

    Vous n’avez pas besoin des États-Unis d’Europe de parler français

  • John Devane

    If Brexit was merely a reactionary right wing movement it would never have succeeded. Labour voters in their millions voted Brexit but that doesn’t suit your misinformed biased narrative. You’re simply an uber Remoaner incapable of any reasoned debate on the subject. You regurgitate ad nauseum clichéd ultra left nonsense about Brexit without once addressing the political nature of the EU. Its one track mission toward a united states of Europe is not shared by the majority of the UK electorate

  • John Devane

    Not your best line of reasoning. To you Brexit is just jingoism and flag waving. You never address or even acknowledge there is far more to the decision to leave a not fit for purpose EU superstate

  • John Devane

    Leading Remainers also made it clear that voting Leave would likely entail pulling Britain out of the single market. David Cameron said: ‘What the British public will be voting for is to leave the EU and leave the single market.’ George Osborne echoed him: ‘We would be out of the single market.’ There you go: the two then most powerful men in Britain saying Leave would mean leaving the single market.

  • John Devane

    Your crocodile tears of sympathy are your most pathetic modus operandi. Change the record. It doesn’t work. The Establishment and its vast array of media propaganda did not sway the vote your way. Brexit won. That’s the reality you have yet to deal with

  • Kevin Breslin

    As I said before I don’t hate England, just the bitter isolationists who run the Leave camp who have nothing positive to offer that poor nation just their sence of victimhood.

  • John Devane

    Your post makes little sense. You’re worried the UK will have to rely more on the entertainment industry. Your expert economic analysis should’ve been shared to all and sundry before the referendum.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I deliberately stereotype the Leave side as ungrounded fantasists and the fact they retreat to Walter Mitley land rather than solving problems on Southern Rail pretty much prove they are all ego with nothing substantially different to back it up with.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I honestly think there is a lot of bigotry in the Leave camp as a result of the arrogant people within it, and the arrogant people who support it. Bigots have a tendency to blame others for their own mistakes. I have said I am willing to give credit where it’s due if there’s evidence to back up their functional capacity.

    However the evidence so far seems to suggest the Leave side is more concerned with hating the European Union than fixing anything within the United Kingdom. Bigots rarely work on self-improvement you see.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Mais j’adore les Étas-Unis, j’adore la France, le Pay Bas, l’Allemande et le vingt-cinq autre pays dans EU et les Étas-Unis, je n’adore pas les idiots egoistes qui pensent ils sont la centre du monde en Angleterre mais ils ne font jamais rein pour aider leur peuple. Ils se paignent tous les jours, tous les temps mais ils ne vivent pas dans la réalité.

  • Kevin Breslin

    At many times I’ve asked you to talk about positive attitude things leavers including yourself are going to do to help the UK without being blinded by an anti-EU lens.

    Sorry but there’s nothing really encouraging.

  • John Devane

    Kevin why persist with insults? You can make your case against Brexit without the low blows. It’s unnecessary and only serves to demean you.

    Brexit is not the panacea to all the problems the UK and Ireland face. The majority of the UK electorate have voted to leave the EU for a host of reasons. Like it or not that is the democratic choice.

    The unpopularity of Brexit in Ireland is understandable. I know first hand the hard border issue as I regularly visit Ireland. Despite the misgivings expressed regarding trade and customs barriers being resurrected I’m confident they can be avoided. The UK / Irish govts don’t want a hard border so who is going to impose one?

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    Assert away. It’s not an argument of any kind. In the meantime, read this – it might enlighten you a bit:
    http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/the_problem_with_the_english_england_doesn_t_want_to_be_just_another_member_of_a_team_1_4851882

  • John Devane

    Thanks for the interesting link. Boyle’s polemic is an interpretation of the sweep of history which help form today’s UK. As much as I may agree with some of his assertions, particularly the uneven union with England, I don’t believe there will be any rush to rejoin the EU. Even if events transpired as he hopes I doubt there will be any meaningful EU to rejoin; the EU superstate will have died IMHO

    For that reason I honestly do not believe the majority of Scots will risk a step into the unknown outside the UK and vote for independence in any 2nd Independence referendum

  • Kevin Breslin

    I see it as just flag waving and jingoism. It seems the only positives and purpose that the Leave side substantially offer.

  • John Devane

    Then you grossly misinterpreted the Brexit result with your very misinformed biased and simplistic analysis. 17.4 million in your opinion are just flag waving jingoistic xenophobes. No real in depth analysis from you then….

  • Kevin Breslin

    You’ve got me wrong here. I EXPECT the Brits in the Leave side to be the objects of ammusement for years to come.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/acd010c0272270098bbc83d861efe6fcc0b9877982b9750ce8052bf514a01ba9.jpg

  • John Devane

    Love Europe hate the EU

    Did you mean you love the USA or did you mean to express your loyalty to your United States of Europe?

  • Kevin Breslin

    On the contary when Michael Gove tells the people of arguably Europe’s leading science nation, that it should be tired of listening to its own experts… it became very clear to me that the Leave side were running away from reality and into the thrall of supersticious morons.

  • John Devane

    And the Remain side will be a story of sobriety and scandal free in your world?

  • lizmcneill

    UKIP and the Daily Mail aren’t right-wing now?

    And what’s so great about Britain that it’s preferable to the EU? As May and the Tories removes more workers’ rights and consumer protections to emulate her pal Trump, will it give you a warm cozy feeling that your rights are being removed by British politicians?

  • Kevin Breslin

    As far as I can see the Leave side is ultrareliant on not being sober, and not having any real integrity.

    But well they do make good comedy … Where’s the plan!

    The most biased Remainer trying to create some strawman version of Leave couldn’t make up the shambles Leave politicans created for themselves.

    Soap opera stuff.

  • Kevin Breslin

    J’adore les Étas-Unis d’Amerique et les Étas-Unis de México. J’aime beaucoup de pays. J’apprécie les points positifs de l’Union européenne aussi, la libre circulation des marchandises, des personnes et des services. Je ne pense pas que vous aimez le Royaume-Uni, parce que vous avez aimer la Brexit et vous détestez les résaux britanique et l’identité européenne de l’Anglaterre, L’Ecosse, Les Pays de Galles, L’Irlande et le reste de l’Europe . Je pense que les enfants terribles de la Brexit veulent que le Royaume-Uni se suicide. Ils boivent tant d’alcool qu’ils veulent se suicider eux-mêmes aussi. Le Royaume-Uni est mort, vive les gens britannique dans le Royaume-Divisé!

  • Kevin Breslin

    I think I interpreted that population quite well, mostly bigoted against the European Union and unwilling to change themselves to make the United Kingdom better.

    You really come with a scarcity of evidence and a whole load of hope that does little to change my mind on this, simply reenforces this belief.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Why are you worried about the European Court of Justice anyway … I doubt they’ve built a case against anyone you care about!

  • John Devane

    It’s not strictly accurate to maintain our rights have been only safe guarded by membership of the EU. Workers rights were in place before joining the EU.

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/36434855

  • Kevin Breslin

    The U.K. signed up to freedom of movement, now it’s choosing a path of freedom of stagnation letting more nations block their citizens freedom to move out of the U.K.

    Armchair flag waving nationalism at its best.

  • John Devane

    It’s the principle. My personal circumstances are largely irrelevant. If the EU had simply remained a trade block like its predecessor the EEC I doubt Brexit would’ve gained popular support

  • John Devane

    I never expected to change your mind and the sparsity of evidence for your one tracked case only reinforces my support for Brexit.

    I don’t believe the EU can survive much longer in its present form.

  • Kevin Breslin

    The unpopularity of Brexit in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is increasing, and will peak when the zealous hate mob prove themselves incompetent with responsibilities that force them to care. We saw this with Iain Duncan Smith running away from the benefits system when he couldn’t take the pressure of something besides being a rent a gob.

    Those who voted to Leave don’t offer alternatives, just a litany of complaints and uncosted and unworkable desires. I have absolute confidence customs and trade barriers cannot be avoided any more than entropy can be reduced.

    Brexit is just a nationalist revolution that relies on self deception and false beliefs, there is nothing that really convinces me that the UK can do one iota of the things Brexiters wanted on the basis of the people in charge.

    I’m preparing to endure Brexit blowing up in the UK and Ireland’s face, as one by one the theories of what leaving the European Union can do for the United Kingdom get exposed as nothing more than fraud.

    Have fun in your dreamland for a couple of years, I’m prepared to face the reality of the U.K. getting the very little it deserves for a political circus of fears, demands and inactions, and right now I have no expectations of being disappointed about that.

  • John Devane

    They drink so much alcohol…..The uk is dead……..” I’ll have a pint of whatever you’re having !

  • John Devane

    The only soap opera is the never ending unfolding crises within the EU

  • John Devane

    Your concluding paragraph but just substitute UK for EU

  • Kevin Breslin

    L’Angleterre veut le Royaume-Divisé et L’auto-détestation du Royaume-Uni veut division. Il y a plus de chooses qui le divisent, il y a moins des choses qui vont l’uniront ensemble maintenant. Au revoir!

  • Kevin Breslin

    The EU is actually being productive, while the leave movement is completely self destructive. All those flags, jingoism, national chauvenism, xenophobia, pride, lack of planning and arrogance in the name of identity fabrication never really amounted to anything constructive.

    I can see though why pro-Brexit keyboard warriors waste their lives on their armchairs defending it though, but I’m more than a match for their arrogance. They just represent the UK’s long fall from grace, into disgrace.

    Full of internal rottenness and ugliness and projection of their own faults onto others, I really see no reason how the nearly dead zombies of the Leave movement are going to save the United Kingdom from its own self destruction.

  • John Devane

    You require some insight. You are the archetypical keyboard warrior. You churn out your pseudo ultra left wing ideology and castigate any political opposition as racist. In reality you’re the one exhibiting all the classic signs of intolerance. Couple your intolerance with your consistent abuse of anyone who has the audacity to challenge your Remoaner convictions and you go off on one. I’m sure in person you’d be more amenable to reasoned debate

  • BonaparteOCoonassa

    As I pointed out to you above there is a glaring democratic deficit where Scottish control over the Scottish economy is concerned – for this and other salient reasons there will be a vote to leave the UK. Your view (hope?) of the EU gives me reason to doubt both your judgement and your goodwill towards Scotland. You obviously know nothing of the feelings of many people in Scotland – we are not going to get any further with this, so goodbye.

  • Fear Éireannach

    If the British government do not want a hard border then just leave it as it is. Problem solved.

  • Skibo

    You need to remember one thing, Brexit has not yet happened. What has happened is the pound has come under severe pressure at just the thought of Brexit. The positive effect on British exports will reduce as the effect of imports happens.
    What items does the UK actually make without importing raw materials? That is the only area that will still feel the negative move of the pound as a positive.

  • John Devane

    You doubt my goodwill toward Scotland? I just disagree with you for the reasons I gave you. OTOH you believe Scottish independence is around the corner. I think you will be disappointed.

  • Skibo

    John, perhaps you should look back to see where the UK was before she entered the EU, inflation running at 26%. The UK is currently the fifth biggest economy in the world but that was built on the back of the EEC.

  • John Devane

    More divides than unites the UK in your opinion. Np if Irish unity ever came about but the here and now is the EU and its political economic union objectives. More causes for division there IMHO. Only time will tell.

  • Skibo

    John, the fact that you are agreeing with the remainers and contradicting what the brexiters said, says alot. Those who voted for Brexit, did so from what the Brexiteers told them. Cameron tried to explain what would happen but they did not believe him.
    Problem with elections is we did not know who to believe. People have problems and unfortunately most of them were laid at the door of the EU and not where it should have been, at the door of Westminster.

  • John Devane

    Skibo the point is the EEC transformed into its more sinister ambitious child the EU.

  • Skibo

    John, sinister and ambitious is a case I would put against the British empire.
    A number of the accusations put against the EEC were untrue.

  • Kevin Breslin

    It’s far more concentrated in the UK. I honestly think that at best Brexit is the UK apologizing for the failings of its non-EU decisions.

    I wonder how many Remainers and migrants will be needed to take over from those in the Leave side whose instincts seem to quit anything that needs the slightest degree of discipline.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Sorry not buying this constant nonsence you keep pedaling. Is this what you are basing your precious political union of the UK upon, a narcissistic hatred of the EU.

    If the UK is hoping to unite itself on hatred of European Union, then I’m afraid the nation will be polarised between ultra Brexiteers who need demagogues of Johnson and Farage to fill the hole inside they thought was lost with EU membership and those who believe in self determination, agency who feel the people here shouldn’t pay the price for homegrown incompetence and ineptitude.

    The UK is falling apart and its pro-Brexit saviours are just a wrecking ball to things like the NHS, multiculturalism, technological innovation, tolerance, common sence and respecting foreigners.

  • Skibo

    John, you condemn Kevin as a pseudo ultra left wing yet it was mainly the conservative business right wing that was defending the EU during the referendum.
    Problem during the referendum was the Brexiters were blaming all the woes of the world on the EU. Free movement in the EU does not account for all the foreigners in England. The majority of them came from the countries you invaded.

  • John Devane

    Skibo what has it to do with the British Empire? The EEC was controllable. Its more ambitious child the EU is hell bent on political union. It is in my opinion over reaching itself. Too many policy errors. Schengen, the Euro and an unaccountable future superstate.

  • John Devane

    I invaded? Get over yourself. Brexit was a long time in the making. Disillusionment with the EU has its origins beyond the fringes of right wing politics. Labour used to be anti EEC. The Labour party turned pro EU but forgot to take all their voters with them. It’s much more than simple Right Wing versus Left now

  • Kevin Breslin

    Reactionary right wingers and the suckers who believed they actually care about their nation rather than lining their pockets.

    Brexit seems to be using populist easy answers to exercise concentrated incompetence in the wake of complex issues.

    The UK cannot rely on the feral madness of the minority of Express reading xenophobes. Eventually the Brexit culture will be broken like Northern Ireland loyalism has been.

  • John Devane

    You conflate my criticism of the EU and my support for Brexit as a vehicle to what exactly?……Save the UK? Save the British union?

    You console yourself with ulterior motives with which you can air your grievances at will without honestly addressing the subject at hand; namely the relentless drive toward an EU superstate

  • Kevin Breslin

    Yes the EU is becoming rabidly anti-foreigner, anti-intellectual, anti-democratic and anti-competitive in the hopes of returning the nation to the glories of the British Empire. No oh wait that’s the political class and right wing commentariat of United Kingdom that’s doing all that sinister stuff all by itself.

    Recycling the old paranoid isolationisms of Powell and Mosley isn’t going to fix the UK one iota.

  • Skibo

    Perhaps without the UK, they will be able to work together better. Is the Eur such a failure?
    When the Brexiters were questioned about the over arching legislation and asked for examples, the legislation they had problems with came from Westminster, not the EU.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Wouldn’t surprise me if more followed Mair’s example and become pro-Brexit terrorists in the name of a fascist Britain. The sense that these fanatics are only benign won’t last when they are betrayed by the phoney self-serving and highly incompetant British political class.

  • Skibo

    John, the English relate everything back to their time of their Empire, that and the fact that they won two world wars all on their own. Britain still had her sovereignty within the EU. It is not controlled by an unelected body, it has a parliament elected by all the people of all countries within the EU. Policy is set by the European council where the members are appointed by the parliaments of the countries. Where is the lack of democracy?
    The whole issue of the EU is to make trade easier within the community.

  • Skibo

    John, I would agree that is is not a right v left. It has become the informed v the uninformed.
    English people see foreign people coming in and taking over their country and believe it is the fault of the EU. The majority of these foreigners come from countries that make up the British Empire. There are little or no control of this immigration.

  • Kevin Breslin

    I think you are not facing up to a crumbling United Kingdom who needs to create some fictious enemy in a desperate need to hold it together.
    The European Union is united by a sucessful customs union and single market that will adapt to the needs of member nations while the UK is struggling to hunt after former glories and justify its vain self-image, so departly insecure hoping that other nations follow them.

    The world doesn’t need the Brexiteers. Even desperate refugees are seeing the UK as a lost cause now.

  • Madra Uisce

    Anecdotal evidence?The English gutter press most notably the Mail, Express and the bottom feeding Sun have ran a relentless xenophobic hate campaign against both the EU generally and immigrants in particular over a long period of time.. Then we have the vile racist and xenophobic crap posted on social media by Brexiteers added to every vox pop done in relation to Brexit. In relation to immigration, the majority of immigrants come from outwith the Uk and therefor are subject to immigration controls so perhaps the Govt could start with that. Being anti racist and anti xenophobic automatically places one on the high moral ground.

  • John Devane

    Ok the historical narrative sold to UK kids is not strictly accurate? All countries have their national story. Ireland for instance doesn’t unfortunately have a shared national narrative that all its citizens buy into. The divisions of the civil war still divide the major parties in the ROI never mind the Orange / Green divide.

    Brexit may be the cause celeb of right wing reactionaries but to portray it as a right wing reactionary movement is more wishful thinking from the Remain camp. Far too many supported Brexit to define it the way you want.

  • Kevin Breslin

    As far as I’m concerned the EU contains 28 super nation states.

    The Leave are desperate to have the profile of the EU constrained to the UK, I’m so sorry but this inflated sense of the United Kingdom’s importance as an isolated and proud nation is just highlighting the level of senility and conservatism within the Brexit movement which is causing the old nation to fester, fracture and freak out.

    The U.K has lost its reason to stick together, it is now too polarised, too agitated, too lazy and has absolutely no passion to be the pluralist tolerant nation it once was.

    A nation cannot survive on the basis of nursing the egos of the likes of you, and your relentless need for some paranoid fantasy megalomaniac European federalist bogeyman to play themmuns and ussuns with to get vindicated.

    The propaganda is nothing more than spindoctored xenophobia and national supremacism by angry mouthpieces who’ve nothing good or positive to offer their nation.

    This is just going to cause the UK and any other nation who follows the Leave liar example to disintegrate in a way Northern Ireland has when they’ve used bogeymen to segregate communities.

  • John Devane

    Skibo I agree Brexit may be the shock the EU needed to reform

  • John Devane

    Please make a valid point instead of this tired old regurgitated rhetoric. Isolationism is the last thing the UK wants or needs. It has simply decided by democratic mandate to leave an EU heading toward ever more political union

  • John Devane

    Open borders is both unrealistic and unsustainable. Controlling immigration from all sources on an equal basis is in fact less discriminatory and no different than any other Independent western state outside the EU

  • John Devane

    Skibo that’s not true. How many millions arrived from eastern central Europe?
    The uninformed are the Remain side because they only see the negative effects of Brexit without opening their eyes to where this failed EU political entity is headed. Brussels Berlin call the shots and small nations will just tow the line

  • Kevin Breslin

    You are the epitome of an isolationist, rapidly hoping the rest of this forum shares your paranoias or your nonsense whilst having no useful positive content to contribute

    I couldn’t care less if you reject my opinions, it’s not the end of the world to me. However like a typical Brexiteer you want your paranoid fantasies about a non-existent European police state to constitute your own support for Leave having some noble purpose.

    I’m afraid it doesn’t, you are just an average person with manic paranoias who’s bought into this English white knight sense of purpose.

    We had a police state and army presence in Northern Ireland by a controlling overseas nation … The U.K. Voluntarily signing out of an international trading block is not the altruistic masterstoke that the Leave movement claim it was.

    It had to be dressed in all kinds of lies and all kinds of bigoted stereotypes to even advertise it as a cause.

    There’s not a millilitre of the milk of human kindness behind the leave movement, just narcissistic windbags who want brainless zombie yes men to back up their fantasy world.

    Armchair moaners who can’t do anything in their own lives but drive themselves mentally ill chasing their own made up bogeymen.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Seriously would you walk into a mental hospital to hear some schizophrenic fighting off the Illuminati with his mind bullets as the saviour of the world as the best example of how the world should live, because that is kind of what you are expecting me to believe is going to save the UK from itself.

  • John Devane

    You play the man not the ball every time. You try unsuccessfully to trivialise those that disagree with your pro EU opinions. Unfortunately in your case you’re investing your republican politics and conflating them with your Remain EU views. Sinn Fein used to be anti EU. What happened there?

    FYI this is a talkboard where opinions are exchanged. It’s not as you mistakenly believe a passport to an enpowered life. Try to dial it down with your paranoia fantasies

  • Kevin Breslin

    Brexit is entirely about the mental illness suffered by old people. That’s why it’s driven by the desires for false and nigh impossible senses of comfort and yet no drive of inventing new solutions to the problems the UK faces.

    Other than building more mental hospitals and committing more of the maniacs barking about migrants, bananas and whatever other paranoia they obsess about into them, there is never going to be a nation tailor made to stop people freaking out over their imaginary problems.

    The vast majority of the problems the Leave side were complaining about were imaginary and the solutions on offer were lazy and unrealistic fixes.

    I’m not going to be a zombie slave to the attitudes of the Brugges Club, the Bullington Club or the UKIPers moaning about the loss of the British Empire and some sense of an oppressed full up British nation that the universe beyond the EU seems to want to prostitute itself out to.

    The Leave side don’t believe in safe spaces, much of them are so obsessed with alt-right opinionism they are doomed to hate and be hated by the rest of the world from their non-stop self-terrorism and autistic nightmares.

    Commercially these are worthless and only feul recursive ranting!

    They are desperate for some sort of clone world UK full of equally stupid, equally paranoid, equally persistent, equally nightmarish egotistical world where they have power over everything. The EU can’t possibly be blamed for people becoming sociopaths and Brexit can’t cure the alt-right sociopathic nature. Only powerful powerful sedatives and antipsychotics can.

    Sorry the UK will never be designed to fight people’s demons, it would be better if the mentally ill got the treatment they deserved, and the rest who are nothing more than losers in life did some voluntary work and didn’t feel they were making a difference from their armchair.

    The UK post Brexit is just going to be as useless the UK pre-Brexit to handle these problems, except it’s just going to be stressed out by its increasing desire not to just retreat from the EU, but the rest of the world too.

  • John Devane
  • Skibo

    John, I suggest you go and check the records. Over 50% of immigrants are not from the EU. Who controls them? Why were the rates not reduced for them? Was Theresa May not responsible for immigration as home secretary? Why didn’t she do something about what she could control?

  • Skibo

    I would not be as confident as you on the positive effect on the UK. I believe it will be difficult for a number of years and we in NI will be worst hit. The likes of Wales, Cornwall and north England will find it difficult also. I believe Cornwall receives as much financial support from the EU as NI yet they voted for Brexit.

  • John Devane

    Skibo I will respond ASAP. Involved in some humble Electrical business right now in the pub 😂I will say immigration is more an issue here than in Ireland

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/01/record-number-eucitizens-came-live-britain-last-year-says-ons/amp/