Raking up “London”again is dead against modern Derry’s practical interests

Sinn Fein recently produced a round- up of Uncomfortable Conversations intended by promote reconciliation. With that in mind, is dropping the “London” prefix from the official name of the traditional city within the boundaries of the newly expanded local government district, really one we need to have again? Particularly as it’s doomed to failure. In a local government sense Londonderry may be said not exist any more , just as the old six counties don’t either. And just as “Belfast Co Antrim” is so often used, although defunct since the late 19th century, when Belfast and Londonderry became county boroughs formally outside the counties. But of course these terms exist emotionally as strongly as ever.

Sinn Fein’s initiative is part of its campaign to embarrass the SDLP over which one is the better nationalist, in advance of next year’s elections. Sadly, it usually works.  And no doubt it’s always tempting to wind up Gregory Campbell. It also exposes the uncomfortable fact that a place’s identity is not wholly in its own hands and rests in eponymous imperialist London – unless a court were to reverse an earlier ruling and decide otherwise.

The move is surely out of kilter with modern Derry’s real interests, after years of gentle mockery by the late Gerry Anderson, a maiden city patriot if ever there was one. It comes at a very odd juncture in Derry’s recent history.  Since the UK City of Culture, the new stroke city coinage of Derry/Londonderry despite being cumbersome, has really caught on as a positive statement of cross community respect . Why not throw in “Doire” as well?

The highly experienced and patient readers’ editor of the Belfast Telegraph Paul Connolly gets it right with a policy also followed by the broadcasters. In the old days, there was always one exception at first mention. Somehow, “Londonderry IRA leader Martin McGuinness “ wouldn’t have sounded quite right.

The reasons for letting the hare sit are surely more than adequate for everybody. The “London” traditions have shrewdly been adopted as a marketing strategy for tourism. Without it, Derry‘s visible history would be largely confined to Free Derry Corner. What is the tourist supposed to think, visiting the splendid tableau of the city’s stormy history on show in the Guildhall, if it ended with the  information that the association with London, so strongly part of the its selling appeal and now comfortably absorbed by history, had been dropped from the city’s name after three hundred years?

This is not like Kingstown or Queen’s County whose Irish names were obliterated. It embraces usage by unionists who would never dream of saying to each other: “Are you going into Londonderry today?” And “ Derry “is the term for the Apprentice Boys, the first Presbyterian Church and the pre-Plantation traditions of the Church of Ireland.

The plan to raise the issue is tedium in spades and almost certainly futile if it leads to a petition to the Privy Council, which in effect means the British government. Instead the overwhelmingly nationalist majority can continue to claim maturity and magnanimity despite 50 years of unionist gerrymander, if they really want to go there, after nearly 50 years more.  The issue is a poor paradigm for their wider project, as it’s almost certainly a loser. Too often, Sinn Fein are schizophrenic in their public attitudes. They should work  harder  to decide which mind they want to adopt. Do they respect the  Unionist  tradition or not?

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  • Thomas Girvan

    Well, if you see it as a very modest proposal, that means that it isn’t a very modest proposal.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Thank you Eugene for the links. I note Prof. Curl’s tart comments on just how neglected the Plantation is, and his problems with publishing a full study of it. I’ve had similar experiences, both with publishing and with the frustration that something (in my case the 1688-91 civil war in Ireland) was “so well known” that there was nothing new to say about it. Not that this discourages some University Presses from issuing the same old half truths over and over.

    I’m being a little flippant above, but the subject needs considerable unpacking really. For a start the notion of counties did not exist before the plantation. the entire set-up of Gaelic Ulster was simply alien to the land organisation of those who would succeed to ownership of the land in the seventeenth century. Even the town land names that have come down from the early seventeenth century may simply have been the name offered to the newly arrived planter. Where it contained a personal name, “Ballydonaghy” for example, it may simply have been the Irish for Donaghy’s land, simply referring to the immediate previous owner, rather than encapsulating a time honoured place name. Daire Calgaich is rather different and has very early provenance. But It is important not to simplify the issue by ignoring the convoluted twists and turns that actually qualify virtually any statement anyone can make about any of this.

    Oh, and while I know that Prof. Curl apologises for not being able to speak of everything fully himself, his short synopsis of the Derry issues of 1688/9 has, even so, a number of inaccuracies to my mind, and the assessment of Tyrconnell’s effect on Ireland is simply a repetition of some very misleading Williamite propaganda about conditions in a land at war. Padraig Lenihan’s recent “The Last Cavalier” is well worth reading for a more balanced picture of all this.

    Oh by the way, delighted to find a fellow Tyrone Tribulations fan here!

  • barnshee

    “taxes alone will be enough to pay for your treatment if you get cancer.”

    WTF has that to do with my comment

    The UK taxpayer (SE England branch) provides the funds for the overpaid “Derry” charade that includes

    1 ridiculous salaries for (some) council employees who would be lucky to get a job in a call centre ( apologies to anyone working in a Call centre for the comparison)

    2 allowances to the supporters of the (former) murder gang to continue to help fund the gang.

    Instead of a keeping quiet and hope the massive con they have created will remain tolerated —these idiots draw attention to it.

    In a society afloat on taxpayer largesse “Derry” takes the biscuit (along with the brass neck award). It depends almost entirely on other taxpayers for ” jobs”

    Let them subsist on the taxes that are raised in” Derry” and they can call it what they want

  • barnshee

    Because its currently a “british” society if the ” nationalists” don`t like suck it up or get enough support to change it

  • kalista63

    Oh, I spot a big open goal.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    No, Nevin, it was written in normal Seventeenth Century English. Before Dr Johnson corrected them all, the benighted people of our isles wrote words as they sounded to them. This phonetic habit is very useful when we attempting to re-create local word pronunciation at various times in history, and reading aloud from the 1689 printing of “The Actions of the Inniskilling Men” (for example) with careful attention to vowels is a most enlightening experience!

    A good friend from Alsace who is something of an historical linguist explained to me that the military French of the Franco-Irish correspondence of the time needs an ear attuned to Canadian pronunciation rather than modern French. “Roi” for example is closer to the common name Roy as we would say it. Again, the spelling is a good guide.

    But sorry, not “Ulster Scots”, London-Derrie, simply the older habit of spelling phonetically that was lost with the regularisation of spelling to all but the Ulster Scots Agency and their clients.

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Well, an accurate enough transition into English I suppose……but it’s still the “English version”, so Douglas Hyde and myself are not to any degree mollified in our quest for a pure Gaelic Ulster…..

  • SeaanUiNeill

    Ain’t that the truth……

  • Skibo

    what I was trying to say is if Derry should survive on their tax take then NI should survive on its tax take if we could ever work out exactly what that is.

  • Skibo

    But that is exactly what they have done. The majority of councillors have passed a motion to change the name of the city or is democracy not acceptable if it does not give the result you want?

  • Skibo

    High court stated how it should be done.

  • T.E.Lawrence

    “no different than a majority of residents of any road or street in this part of the world wishing to rename it to whatever the majority want it to” Yeah TB I can just see the Brat Pack from both corners now reviewing local maps to see what they can wonderfully cook up !

  • Robin Keogh

    Residents dont want it, legal body supports their right to object, decsion taken backed by law…over.

  • Robin Keogh

    Oh my God…classic MOPE

  • james

    Residents of the shops?

  • Robin Keogh

    Hopefully for you the Nationalist vites remains chilled out forever and the Unionist vote remains energised forever…what are the chances?

  • Robin Keogh

    Democracy in statelet is only acceptable when defined by Unionism

  • Robin Keogh

    Ask the legal body charged with assesing such things

  • Mike the First

    Robin, I think you need to look up what “MOPE” means.

    He’s not crying oppression.

  • It is indeed good to talk, RL, but we can’t keep talking like this. People will talk….
    1. Gerry wasn’t always ‘gently deprecating’ – he could be pretty caustic at times. I must say I never detected hostility to Derry but neither much affection. He told me he came back home because he looked at himself in the mirror one day and said ‘This man will not last at this rate’. So he came home.
    2. You may be – probably are – right that some unionists will feel further alienated by the name change. Some others, I suspect, will be more concerned with how they are treated in terms of more concrete things. As I said, nobody has to use ‘Derry’ if they don’t want to. It’s simply an official name. And as even Peter Robinson acknowledged, it was only with the onset of the Troubles that unionists decided ‘Derry’ was a republican term, so they went all Londonderry.
    3. You’re quite right – SF started out wanting both flags or none, which patently, in a society divided almost 50/50, would make logical sense. But they went with the 18 days as a compromise. Their gesture was well rewarded, right?
    4. Anybody who thinks of a UI as ‘joining up with the RoI’ needs their head examined. I don’t know a single republican or nationalist who’d want that. They want a new Ireland, which is what it would be. Even without rolling my eyes, I wouldn’t want to join the present RoI. Does that make me a unionist/content to be a subject in NI? I think not.

    4. Anybody who thinks of constitutional change as ‘

  • submariner

    Unionism and democracy are mutually exclusive terms.

  • Robin Keogh

    Positive thinking should not be confused with delusion

  • chrisjones2

    Two weeks ago One Source Virtual announced around 200 new high quality jobs in Londonderry

    They must now look at this shambles and wonder why

    Still….if they want to put them in a stable City which knows what its name is Belfast is still available for the gig

  • ranger1640

    When it comes to MOPE’ry, republicans wrote the book in fact they are still writing it. You can change the name of the city, but here is an undisputable fact. When the republicans of the city go to their beds and when they wake up in the morning they will still be living in the United Kingdom. Let the MOEP’ry begin.

  • Robin Keogh

    Do u have any idea how pathetic and how absolutely juvenile that comment is?

  • ranger1640

    That’s the cold hard facts of the matter in the comment.

  • Robin Keogh

    Its a fact but neither cold nor hard. We have all signed up to the consent principle – 20 years ago in fact – maybe you missed that?

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    yup, tit-for-tat is also a ‘fact’ of Northern Irish life, it exists whether it’s written into the GFA or not.

  • Am Ghobsmacht

    There’s a kinda habit of ‘blinkered arguments’ when people sometimes argue in Norn Iron.

    They tend to write such arguments in a very matter of fact tone and ignore THE THING.

    The Newsletter is a wonderful example of such outrage, it’s full of people putting forward very blinkered but accurate statements such as ‘NI is British’.

    Well, it is, but this ignores THE THING.

    Everything in NI has a catch and it’s pointless putting out these clear cut arguments when the consequences are anything but clear cut, THE THING always has to be taken into consideration.

    So yes, as I stated earlier, the vast majority of the city’s residents call it Derry, that in any other land is fair enough, but in NI it provokes THE THING.

    By all means re-name the place put it is not a simple act of just re-naming a town e.g. Newtownlimavady to Limavady or even Vinterstown to Bellaghy, it has much greater consequences and reverberations which will last for a generation or two.

    Such things are a real fact or Northern Irish life, have been before the GFA and will be long after the GFA is forgotten about or replaced.

  • John Collins

    Tom. There is always a first time. Careful lest ye despair

  • ranger1640

    Consent, so when republicans are in the majority its consent. Well heres more consent for you the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to stay in the United Kingdom.

    I know you want the last word, but it doesn’t change the facts.

  • Chingford Man

    With every stirring of the sectarian pot, Sinn Fein helps to suppress its own vote. Tom Elliott sends his thanks.

  • Robin Keogh

    No, consent means that the current status of the six counties can only be changed by way of a majority vote in a referendum. That majority can be made up of Republicans, nationalists, British citizens, moldovan poll dancers or whatever. Thats consent.

  • Jag

    “It will be historically viewed as graceless (a bit like when king’s county, named after spanish Catholic king Philip was renamed).”

    Really?

    Kings County – county Offaly (rural county in the midlands, known for giving us our previous taoiseach Brian Cowen)
    Queens County – county Laois (rural county in the midlands known for its high security prison in the county town, Portlaoise)
    Kingstown – Dun Laoghaire – in Dublin, known for its ferry
    Queenstown – Cobh – in Cork, a coastal town

    I don’t view any of the changes as “graceless”. Unless you’re a native, you won’t even remember the old names, and to be honest, younger natives aren’t even aware of the old names; any more so than anyone remembers the Romans called Cambridge, “Durolipons”.

  • Jag

    Any truth to the rumour that there’s a proposal to re-name Newry as “DublinNewry”?

  • Thomas Barber

    THE THING is AG unionists will always attempt to resist any change, regardless of whether its about sharing the civil and religious liberties they themselves enjoy or changing the names of institutions, Cities, buildings, streets or generally anything that they perceive as a threat to their schizophrenic status as the guardians of Britains first colony. Wasn’t it in 1937 they attempted to change the name of this state from Northern Ireland to Ulster and they too, like Sinn Fein today, did not like the idea that they had to go through Westminster to get what they wanted. Thats the way it is and thats the way it has always been since they were first planted in Ireland but because we were stupid for all those hundreds of years and allowed this to happen doesn’t mean we have to sit back and allow our unionist overlords the privilege of a veto on any change even if that hurts the feelings of those same unionists. You cant hold back the tide AG and with new order comes change unionists simply dont have the numbers anymore.

  • Thomas Barber

    Happens all the time.

  • ted hagan

    It’s nothing to do with Londonderry or Derry, it’s all to with both self-obsessed sides in Northern Ireland being addicted to neverending petty bickering. It distracts from the real issues, like health, jobs and welfare that the politicians should really be tackling.

  • chrisjones2

    Oh Robin do read the whole thread without just rushing to post

  • Nevin

    Scots was well established by then and it may even have had some influence on the evolution of English. I’d have thought an old Jacobite reprobate would have reflected on Killiecrankie as distinct from Killycranky but perhaps Johnson didn’t venture there.

    I’m with you on the phonetic tack. Some surname/name lists have a phonetic feel to them.

    Some of our place-name ‘experts’ can make a bit of a hames of Irish and Scots forms of our local locations. They can imagine ‘a place of round hills’ on relatively level terrain and not recognise a Scots ‘Haw’ when they change it to Hawthorne!

  • SeaanUiNeill

    I am in Oxford at the moment, but will get in touch via your “contact” on NALIL when I get back to share some letters from 1688 with you.

    But the maps and documents provenances shows them to be in pre Johnson English. on another note, My uncle was much taken by the people he lived among as a child in the 1920s just below Comber still speaking the language of the weaver poets, almost pure lowland Scots.

  • Chingford Man

    With the nationalist vote ever decreasing, who knows what will happen in the future?

  • barnshee

    “what I was trying to say is if Derry should survive on their tax take then NI should survive on its tax take if we could ever work out exactly what that is.”

    I agree whoheartedly — raise your own tax –spend it as you will — just don`t ask those nasty brits for any extra

  • barnshee

    before you try your shot check the reply above

  • Simian Droog

    And that sums up the debate perfectly, it matters to the people of Derry. Shouldn’t matter to anyone outside.

  • barnshee

    “Unless they are completely cuckoo they are bound to know how British regalia antagonises them. ”

    Its a great pity that they are not similarly disengaged from the Brirish benefits system that has fed and housed them for generations

  • barnshee

    “The majority of councillors have passed a motion to change the name of the city or is democracy not acceptable if it does not give the result you want?”

    I am wholly content with the vote
    My sole concern is taxpayer funding of these gobshites —of whatever hue

    ( How about a vote in NI to transfer “Derry” to the ROI -=– suspect that would pass comfortably)

  • barnshee

    “Way past time this was done; the county next.”

    Try for a vote on that then

  • barnshee

    Fall about laughing — bombed and murdered and intimidated 17000 prods out and its ” example to other places, especially Belfast, for its cohesive and fair treatment of all of its citizens.

  • Janos Bingham

    The proposed name change can only be the start surely? A purge of history in the city will require lots of work.

    There’s William Street, Sackville Street and Waterloo Street to name a few. And The Diamond? Way too much a whiff of Plantation about the name of that urban square.

    The few Protestants left on the Cityside aren’t in a position to raise much of an objection, walled in as they are in the Fountain ghetto.

    Now thinking of walls the built heritage will also have to be scrutinised. Demolishing the city’s walls that humble the Bogside will have potential beneficial side effects. No walls mean no need for Apprentice Boys to be within to be consecrated, or whatever it is they do up there in Society Street.

    And that’s the need for the Memorial Hall gone too. It could become the home of Derry’s very own Ministry of Truth where the nationalist bright young things would be employed excising any British taint from history books etc.

    Photoshop, or something similar, could digitally rework historical images to remove the offending ‘London’. A job that today falls to crude paint-wielding signage modifiers.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Attempting to embarrass the SDLP is not winning Sinn Féin votes, or helping unity.

    It should be embarrassing to Sinn Féin that a moment when their vote is in decline, they want more egotistical negativity and discourage more nationalists/republicans or even potential nationalists/republicans showing up on polling day.

    If they are doing this then they are simply becoming a millstone and hoping they can take the SDLP with them.

  • Nevin

    Ta.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Purging History is impossible, the best attempts by Nazis, Soviets and Fundamentalist pan-religious authoritarians have been destroyed by archaeologists, I don’t think it’s right to remove all instances of Londonderry, but it’s a hypocrisy to remove all instance of Derry too.

    Why not give both names joint official status, surely that’s what a “unity of people” that so called republicans should stand for in principle.

    But if Sinn Féin want to partition this island into Us and Them, “Sinn Féin land for a Sinn Féin” people, they have only to look at the several failures of political narcissism that are present in all aspects of Irish history, perhaps Gerry and Marty and Pearce and Mary Lou could look at Craig and De Valera’s attempts to make a nation in their own image and self-serving history.

  • Kevin Breslin

    Do you honestly see Irish people abandoning all the Anglo names from Redcastle to Westport to Swords and all over the place. Why not the Viking ones too in that case, Wexford, Waterford, Longford (back to Longphort not Longfort)?

    The English did create some of these towns, and England has the whole multi-culture of traditions from Gaelic, Britannic (Welsh), Roman, Norse, Norman, Anglo-Saxon, French, Danish etc. In Milton-Keynes, they have a place named after two people who’s surnames both are named after places. Just like England recognises what the Romans created in England.

    There is some argument a Republic should remove King and Queen references, but that’s not due to Anglophobia, that’s a mere constitutional necessity. If you want to go full blown Anglo-phobic then Labhairt i nGaeilge anois ar aghaidh!

    Yet the Republic of Ireland is still “gracious” to have a Royal College of Surgeons, I’m fairly sure the Royalty is not Mary of Knock, Golden Rose, Queen of Ireland.

  • Thomas Barber

    “With the nationalist vote ever decreasing”

    An ever increasing nationalist population not engaging in British politics doesn’t mean a decreasing nationalist population.

  • Kevin Breslin

    It’s what the SDLP and Sinn Féin are offering that nationalists are not being attracted to, the SNP have shown people how things are done, but yet in many eyes both are tired aged bitter versions of what they once were. Yes there’s the growth of Sinn Féin in the South, but they are doing that despite their slow learning Northern contingent, not because of it.

  • Chingford Man

    Didn’t Marty stand up nearly 20 years ago and say that nationalists only had to wait for the children to grow up? Well, the kids have nearly all grown up now and, lo and behold, the nationalist vote is stagnating and its favourable turnout differential over unionism is much eroded. Gerry Carroll will nick one nationalist seat at the next Assembly election in West Belfast and on a good day the unionists might take another. One maybe two seats down. I’m just sorry The Horseman is no more.

  • Thomas Barber

    You still dont get the bit about an ever increasing nationalist population not engaging in British politics but if you want to cling on to the delusion that unionism will always be the majority then by all means cling away. Gerry Carroll possibly nicking a seat from Sinn Fein in West Belfast matters nothing to the ongoing debate about dropping the prefix London from Derry but nice diversion though.

  • Thomas Barber

    Thats up to you to believe Kevin, obviously you take a keen interest in politics but the SDLP and Sinn Fein are increasingly finding it difficult to get the nationalist electorate to engage in British politics. Maybe thats got to do with all the back peddling by the various British governments in the promises they made to the Irish population in these British controlled counties of Ireland who thought things had actually changed. Theres lots of Irishmen like me who wouldn’t take part in British elections if we were paid to regardless of what the SDLP or Sinn Fein offer.

  • Chingford Man

    What you don’t get is that sectarian potstirring, whether over names or flags, is no longer driving up the nationalist vote. What’s the Plan B?

  • Kevin Breslin

    Oh rubbish, far too easy to label unwanted political apathy as lamenting the system than resenting the parties. If neither nationalist party can’t change things by standing the way Parnell and the like did so in the past, then why do these parties and their voters really bother, abstentionist or otherwise.

    Indeed why did Bobby Sands bother with a “British election” too?
    Same rational applies to local government, European or Stormont elections, where the trend is growing.

    Biggest challenge is cynicism and the feeling that representational politics doesn’t change things at any level. Take Derry or (Londonderry to whom it is preferred) for example, highest “young” demographic across the islands for any town or city, yet turnout’s dropped half a percent each year over twenty years almost. Certainly more choices have appeared on the ballot paper than less, particularly in terms of local government.

  • John Collins

    You have just enunciated why we in the South do not want them either. We get a great kick out of the fact that they are costing you lot billions of pounds each year however. What a great spectator sport.

  • John Collins

    There are hypocrites on both sides. Remember the DUP bullshitting for decades that they would have nothing with SF and they became all best mates with them when it suited their political ambitions. A plague on all their houses

  • murdockp

    there is no need to embarrass the SDLP they are doing a pretty good job embarrasing themselves.

  • murdockp

    no but recent historical research has translated Newry into ‘old Norse’ and it translates as ‘grave yard of ambition’

  • murdockp

    belfast stable……like some one diagnosed with ‘bipolar’ who is taking their meds is also stable..

  • murdockp

    sell the naming rights to the highest bidder like they do with stadia. Emiratesderry has a nice ring to it. Applederry links in not only with modern tech but it’s fruit of the loom past.

    any other ideas welcome, 3derry could be good to but it sounds like a republican with a lisp chose the name the unionists won’t like that, they would want orangederry..but wait a minute that is now EEderry after a merger and the republicans will just daub ‘fr’ on all the signs

    let’s just hope they don’t do a deal with Robinson ‘s barley water or we will have real problems.

    all very confusing….

  • Brian Walker

    No Nevin, English or the English! ( old spellings)

  • SeaanUiNeill

    As most of the land everywhere in Ireland (north and south) is already owned by Cerberus Capitol Management or Blackstone, would it not be they who would put the name out to tender?

    But Applederry sounds “progressive”………

  • SeaanUiNeill

    “Live and lets live”, thats’s radical………

  • Brian Walker

    gero, Take a bow for the most convoluted analysis and a rap for silly abuse.. gendjinn. why do it if it doesn’t pay?

  • Brian Walker

    well yes Pete up to a point. But yesterdays legal rulings don’t always survive until they day after tomorrow. No harm in making a slightly different case keeping up with

  • gero

    fair comment. The anger burns but I’m working on it.

  • Dessie Deratta

    All in good time…

  • Dessie Deratta

    Nah. I run my own school…

  • barnshee

    I suggest a petition with a selection of choices in Irish

    Skid row on Foyle
    Benefits City
    NewtownCreggan
    Dlasville

  • Robin Keogh

    Your terminology hits a nerve because it is accurate

  • Robin Keogh

    You have to hope that the growing nationalist population continue to stay away from the polls for the foreseeable. T nationalist majority community are in the under 40 age bracket. A cohort not known for enthusiastic voting habits. The over 40 age group is 50/40 in favour of the PUL community right in line with the election results. Sticking your head in the ground wont change the inevitable.

  • Robin Keogh

    But what to vote for eh? The populace know that their reps are not even good as draft stoppers in westminster. Stormont is nothing but a grand council, zero power. Why bother voting?

  • Chingford Man

    You’re assuming that this rising Catholic population will (a) mutate in conscientious voters just because they grow older and (b) play the role for which today’s republicans have earmarked them. Alternatively they may perceive themselves and their political role quite differently.

    Far too many nationalists have bet the house on demographic change inevitably giving them eventual victory. I wonder what their Plan B shall be. If you know, be sure to tell the old men in Sinn Fein.

  • Robin Keogh

    Thats a great idea, then we can put it to rest once and for all

  • Robin Keogh

    Its not about assumption, its about following a pattern that pervades all democracies. Older people vote, younger people dont. For now at least the vast majority of catholics and protestants vote in line with their community background. With one vommunity growing and the other declining, it doesnt take a wizard to work out the future probabilities. Plan B is joint authority i imagine.

  • barnshee

    Who owns the walls -is it the City of Derry or are they owned by the Hon Irish Society?

    Could they be disassembled and re-erected somewhere more welcoming — Coleraine – Ballymena? Gets rid of the reminder of brit occupation from Derry and the apprentice boys could parade for ever in perfect peace

  • chrisjones2

    …or they could just recognize the value of being British