Change is coming and all parties in the South know it

All parties in the south are now in election mode. Selection conventions are beginning to take place across the state. There is a scramble particularly by independents to tap into the mood for change and to benefit from the disillusionment of the public with the establishment parties. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael are grappling with the growing possibility that they may end up going into coalition together. They do not want to see Sinn Féin in Government but neither do they want to see the party as the main party of opposition.  It is no longer a question of if Sinn Féin will be in government – it is a question of when.

The political landscape is unrecognisable from the stagnation of the last decade or the decades that preceded it. The dominance of Irish politics by two big parties is gone.

For the first time voters can see that it is realistic to elect a government that is not led by Fianna Fáil or Fine Gael. The significance of this change cannot be underestimated.  Politics no longer has to be about voting for the least worst option. That is a seismic change in Irish politics and opens up the possibility of engaging the many citizens who have opted out altogether through cynicism and disillusionment.

The opportunity exists to sweep away an establishment that has been immune from many of the hardships experienced by the average citizen over recent years – an establishment with little understanding or empathy for patients struggling to access healthcare in a system in crisis, with workers coping with zero hours contracts or with parents whose children have left for Toronto and Sydney.

What has brought voters to this point can be traced not only to the austerity of recent years and economic mismanagement and speculative euphoria of the Bertie Ahern era but to the cronyism and corruption that characterised Irish politics in the 1980’s and 1990’s. Many voters have simply had enough.   The pressure of job losses, falling wages, emigration, the property tax, and finally the new water charges have pushed voters to break with traditional voting patterns.   Fianna Fáil, which recovered in every other period out of government since is foundation, is in the words of its Galway West TD Eamon O Cuiv going nowhere.

The very future of the Irish Labour party is on the line as it looks set to pay the price for embracing and aggressively pursuing austerity.

During the Claire Byrne Live debate on RTE 1 television on Monday night two women in the audience challenged Irish Labour Party Leader and Tánaiste Joan Burton on changes to lone parents supports introduced by her as Minister for Social Protection. They also challenged her on the failure to match these changes with action to make childcare affordable for those in low paid employment. They were speaking in the context of the Irish state having one the highest childcare costs in Europe according to Eurostat figures released last year and the failure of successive governments to do anything of any substance to address the issue.

When they asked Burton what they were supposed to do given no action has been taken to make childcare affordable or to tackle low pay the Tánaiste turned to them and told them to “get a job”. .

The comments were reminiscent of Norman Tebbitt’s remark that the unemployed of 1980’s Britain should get on their bikes and find work. What made the exchange really remarkable was that this was the leader of the Irish Labour party talking to what would have been seen as a key demographic target group for the Labour party. Indeed one of the women acknowledged that she had voted for Labour in 2011.   The exchange demonstrated once again that the Labour Party is out of touch with potential voters and their key concerns, including the costs of childcare, and the plight of the working poor. In her comments Joan Burton gave weight to the accusation made during the debate by Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams that Labour had in fact become more like Fine Gael than Fine Gael themselves.

Underlying the momentum for change is both a sense that the establishment parties are out of touch and a strong view that neither the current government nor the previous Fianna Fáil led government stood up for Irish interests in Europe. The capitulation to the ECB in 2008 and the failure to fight for retrospective recapitalisation since the current government took office causes real anger for people who are living with the consequences of those failures. Even those who would not be natural supporters of Syriza look enviously at the decision of the Greek people to elect a government that will stand up for their interests.

In looking towards the general election, which will happen in April 2016 at the latest, the question remains whether those most affected by the cuts and austerity of recent years can see that there is hope for change and that their vote really does matter.

If those committed to change can motivate young people, hard pressed families and the unemployed to vote in large numbers the make-up of the Dáil after the next election will be dramatically different. For many the resurgence of the left in Greece and in Spain as well as the success of the SNP in Scotland will be an inspiration. They see in these countries the rise of parties that are willing to stand up for national interest and stand up for ordinary people.

  • Reader

    If you are pinning your hopes of Sinn Fein success in elections down south on the Syriza effect; best to hope that the election takes place before the wheels come off the Syriza bus…

  • Cue Bono

    “It is no longer a question of if Sinn Féin will be in government – it is a question of when.”

    That is a mighty huge claim to make. The Republic of Ireland is currently emerging from a long period of financial agony. Things are improving down there just as they are up here for us. The voters down there would have to be absolutely insane to endanger that recovery by voting for a Sinn Fein government. Both FF and FG have made it clear that they will not share power with SF, so a future government is most likely to be led by one of those parties with the support of smaller parties and independents, or possibly a FF/FG coalition.

    SF have based all of their hopes on the performance of Syriza in Greece. That is extremely unlikely to end well and I would predict that Greece will be in financial chaos yet again long before the Irish general election. When that happens Adams is going to look extremely foolish. Remember he is the guy who described the government programme in Venezuala in glowing terms. This is Venezuala today. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/16/venezuela-struggle-streets-inflation-shortages-oil-slump

    “When they asked Burton what they were supposed to do given no action has
    been taken to make childcare affordable or to tackle low pay the
    Tánaiste turned to them and told them to “get a job”.”

    I watched the programme from start to finish and I didn’t hear her tell anyone to ‘get a job’. She explained that her government was working hard to get people jobs.

  • aber1991

    Why should the government of Eire or of any other country “do something” about childcare costs? Why should the State (i.e. taxpayers) provide support for single mothers who decided to behave in a manner which caused their single motherhood? Babies do not happen, they are caused.

    Most of the Eire’s State’s national debt is not the result of bailing out the banks. It is the result of successive Eire governments, year after year after year, spending more than their income – largely due to the malign influence of that jabbering idiot, Dr Garret Fitzgerald. The borrowing by Eire governments to meet current expenditure started about 1974 when the Minister of Finance was a Richie Ryan of the Labour Party. Garret Fitzgerald, Conor Cruise O’Brien and Justin Keating were Ministers in that same government of spacers. The Eire electorate kept voting for politicians who wanted to spend, spend, spend.

    As for the bank guarantee, why were Eire banks in difficulty? Because they had lent money to people who could not repay. Who borrowed money which they could not repay – thereby rendering the Eire banks insolvent due to their bad debt burdens? Did anyone grab a citizen of Eire and drag him, kicking and screaming, to the
    nearest bank to have a £300 loan rammed down his poor Jackeen or Culchie throat?

    He, who goes out on a binge, is lively to wake up the next morning with a hang-over and considerably less money.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Are you on commission for every time you say ‘Eire’?

  • Tochais Siorai

    ‘FF have made it clear they will not share power with SF’….
    .
    The primary reason they can say that is that the numbers don’t stack up, looks like between them they’ll be around 20 short of a majority after the next election. However, if that changes you can be sure they’ll both be like flies around sh**e with each other. At the minute though FG/FF is the only show in town & even then they might need Labour or a few non-party.
    .
    (Our new blogger appears to be the only person who heard JB’s ‘Get a job’ comment)

  • Robin Keogh

    The traditional balance has been turned on its head. FF and FG traditionally could count on winning about 70 percent of the vote. Now it appears they are around 40percent. SO even combined, its unlikely they could form a government together unless they include the remains of labour, and or a disperate group of independents.

    The garden is not so rosy on the left either. SF, the Socialists and left leaning independents only make up about 27 percent of popular support. I cant see any of them in goverment next time round.

    In so much as the upcoming westie election is gonna be exciting, the next Dail election is gonna be Nuts !

  • Ernekid

    I could forsee two outcomes in the next Irish election, Fine Gael manage to cobble a government together by bribing various independents with enough pork to fill the Galtee Rashers factory or the electoral mathematics mean that Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil are forced to go into coalition together when making a big song and a dance about burying the Civil War hatchet in the year of the 1916 Centenary.

    The Shinners chances of getting anywhere near government in Dublin during this decade is slim. It’ll take at least till the 2020s when the old felons are retired and the memories of the gunmen have faded for the Southern electorate to accept Sinn Fein in government.

    As for Greece I reckon it’ll have gone all tits up before Easter. When the IMF are called back in and the Greek Military are considering another coup by the end of this year, I wonder if Sinn Fein will still be talking about their new Greek buddies?

  • Ernekid

    The odd thing is that he refers to Éire in a similar manner to the British government used to back in the 50s incorrectly spelling it without a Fada as Eire. Its odd to use the Irish language name whilst writing in the English language. It’s akin to me writing about Spain in English and continuously referring to the country as España

  • Robin Keogh

    I wouldnt be quite that dismissive of Syrizas abilities just yet. They have toned down their rhetoric and asked for responsible negotiations with Europe. If they can stop austerity in Greece and show any kind of improvement on the ground they will have done their job. It suiys europe better if greece stays calm and recovers, rather than falling into anarchy.

  • Paddy Reilly

    This is Venezuela today

    That is true, but as neither part of Ireland depends on oil for 95% of its income, it will not effect the performance of Sinn Fein.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Indeed. I think our friend is trying to make some kind of point but I’ve no idea what it is.

  • tt

    Aber 1991, Quite an ignorant comment. Many parents are single parents not out of a choice but necessity – the death of a partner, abusive relationships etc. To link single parenthood to the behaviour of women is ludicrous. There are single fathers also. What about male behaviour and responsibilities? Get a grip. Current childcare costs prevent people from going back to work, it is an issue.

  • aber1991

    I quote from my previous post

    “single mothers who decided to behave in a manner which caused their single motherhood”

    What was ignorant about that comment?

    “There are single fathers also”

    I though that the opening post referred to supports for single mothers. That was the issue which I addressed.

    “What about male behaviour and responsibilities?”

    Why pick on the taxpayer?

  • Reader

    “… get a job …”
    Well, someone has made a mistake somewhere. We all know Shinners never lie.

  • Practically_Family

    I’m not convinced it does actually.

    Regarde le outcome of not being austere…. Now, about your repayments.

  • Cue Bono

    The economy in Venezuala was collapsing long before the price of oil plummetted.

  • Cue Bono

    I’m a bit surprised that such a blatant party political broadcast was allowed.

  • Cue Bono

    I’d be interested in hearing how you think they could stop austerity in Greece? As far as I know Syriza’s plan is to refuse to pay their country’s debts off and afaik that is also the SF plan if they get into government in the republic. As both countries rely on loans to function I can’t see how that will work. No one is going to lend money to a country which refuses to pay it back.

    Greece is in trouble because the people there have a culture of paying very little tax and expecting to retire at 58 on a pension which is 80% of their final salary. That is not sustainable. There is no free and easy way to fix something which is so badly broken.

  • sean treacy

    Ernekid ,Syriza are not SF’s “new Greek buddies”.The two parties have been working together in Europe for over a decade in united left ,Nordic Green left.As for “memories of the gunmen” fading before the south allows SF near government, I would remind you that in 1932, the “gunmen” swept to power a mere 9 years after being defeated in the civil war.Indeed the pro treaty Cumann na Gael fought that election using “the shadow of the gunman” smear against their FF opponents.

  • Catcher in the Rye

    For the past two or three general elections in Ireland, pundits (including SF-leaning ones like the contributor above) have predicted SF sweeping the board. The party has consistently underperformed these estimates. SF’s most recent underperformance was at the Dublin South West by-election in 2014.

    Leaving aside the fact that the vast majority of Irish voters are historically disinclined to vote for left wing parties, the article above does not address the problem of exactly how SF can claim the mantle of the Syriza when they are in open competition with Syriza’s direct equivalent which is the “anti austerity Alliance”. SF are already in government and they have already shown that staying in government is more important than keeping their word on implementing cutbacks.

  • Catcher in the Rye

    As for the bank guarantee, why were Eire banks in difficulty? Because they had lent money to people who could not repay.

    In reality most banks don’t really lend money.

    With a few exceptions, the capital markets lend money to banks, which they then lend on to small scale retail and commercial borrowers. The money on the capital markets comes from investments placed by individuals and businesses. In this case, German pension funds and savings.

    If you are dumb enough to lend money without taking steps to understand the scale of the risk you are taking you are supposed to lose it. That is how the market works.

    The Germans, and the White House, put pressure on Ireland to upend this arrangement and transfer the debts into the State. The state then had to borrow large amounts of money from the IMF in order to meet the obligations. The Irish taxpayer is then compelled to pay the balance.

    The Irish taxpayer is paying a heavy price for facilitating a regime where bank lending and property development was poorly regulated. Some people think the Irish taxpayer should not have to pay that price, and they may well be right.

  • tt

    Haha comical! You’re definitely missing the 1900s .

  • Cue Bono

    This isn’t 1932 and there is a big difference between public perceptions in the ROI of the old IRA and the Provos.

  • Cue Bono

    The governments had two choices. Bail out the banks at considerable cost or let the banks collapse and plunge their countries into deep 1930’s style recession. They wisely chose the former. Keep a good eye on Greece and you will see what happens when people engage in the sort of fantasy politics that SF espouses.

  • Jag

    For all the speculation about change, the bookmakers think a FF/FG and handful (that is, around five) of Others is the near dead cert government from 2016. FF is unlikely to have the numbers with SF, unless they can get 15-20 Independents which would be an extreme stretch.

    And for all the talk about SF’s ascendancy, their polling at the two by-elections in October (where they suffered a shock defeat in Dublin, and a mediocre but expected defeat in Roscommon) wouldn’t fill anyone with confidence that they will have a breakthrough in 2016. They’ll probably take around 30 seats, up from 14 at present, in a 156-TD Dail in 2016, they will become the main party of Opposition, but be frequently overshadowed by the latest colourful batch of Independents, and possibly the so-called “hard” Left.

    SF as the official Opposition will be remarkable, but in a period of what should be strong economic expansion, they may be as irrelevant as FG in the early 2000s, and come 2021, it’s likely to be all about FG and FF again.

  • barnshee

    The splintering of the vote is in a sense excellent. Withe none able to command a majority- a fudge of a coalition with kaleidoscope of positions is inevitable–which with a bit of luck means nothing material gets done. Now if we could just get the Governments hands out of taxpayers pockets life would be complete.

  • Paddy Reilly

    The governments had two choices. Bail out the banks at considerable cost or let the banks collapse and plunge their countries into deep 1930’s style recession.

    In fact they chose a third option: bail out the banks and plunge the country into deep 1930s style recession.

  • $136050377

    Are you surprised? Did the “Eire” not clue you in?

  • $136050377

    Keep telling yourself that.
    Is that “big difference” the Oirish “west bRit) Independent and Slugger O Fool?

  • $136050377

    “The splintering of the vote is in a sense excellent. Withe none able to command a majority- a fudge of a coalition with kaleidoscope of positions is inevitable–which with a bit of luck means nothing material gets done. Now if we could just get the Governments hands out of taxpayers pockets life would be complete.”
    ===================================
    Now enough about Westminster ..What have you got to say about Leinster House?

  • $136050377

    “…but in a period of what should be strong economic expansion,…”
    ============================
    You’re dreaming ain’t you. What economic expansion..Europe is in the toilet..And so is the Uk[raine] Kaput..finished. In short..things are as good as they are ever going to get.

  • barnshee

    Big difference in PR and “First past the post” Elections
    Sadly Westminster will fudge it somehow

  • Cue Bono

    It would have been a hell of a lot worse if the banks had collapsed.

  • Cue Bono

    Another thing that SF have in common with the British Labour Party is that both hope the economy will tank so that they can get into power. Their political ambitions are more important than the quality of life of their electorate.

  • Cue Bono

    The big difference is that the people of the ROI see the old IRA as the fathers of their nation and the Provos as a squalid sectarian murder gang.

  • $136050377

    No it’s a simple fact that Europe pays 50% of the World’s social welfare bill ( within it’s own borders) and the Asian/ Chinese work 80 hour weeks.
    It doesn’t take a genius to work it out.
    I might also add that Asian countries bankroll their essential industries and they are allowed sell into USA and EU areas despite this.
    All because of a few corporate giants like VW; for example can sell into the Chinese market.
    Short version…We’re t-o-a-s-t.
    Is mise le meas.
    The only thing the EU does is allow state aid for Airbus and defence jobs and banksters.
    The Rest can go to heck in a handcart.
    Time for you to wake up out of your Orange haze.

  • $136050377

    Spoken like a true stooge of Slugger O fool and the West brit Independent.
    You DO realize that these media “organisations ” have been proved wrong time and time again don’t you.
    You do realize that Unionists wanted a 32 County Irish West Brit hove……..l…and lost.
    Then they wanted a 9 County Ulcer…………………………………….they lost
    They wanted single party rule in Stormont…………………..they lost.
    They wanted no Anglo Irish agreement ………………………….they lost.
    They wanted to march at Drumcree………………………………..they lost.
    They wanted no parades commision…………………………………they lost..
    They wanted a Fleg in Belfast…………………………. they lost

    So, What is the unionist poress saying lately??
    With a record of the above.
    One is tempted to call them born multi-time losers
    BTW as I’m typing this my thumb and forefinger seem to be making an “L” shaped sign on my forehead.
    Sorry auld chap.

  • Robin Keogh

    Only the most begrudging of commentators would try to suggest that SF political gains over the last number of elections have been impressive. Sure they missed the bi election seat but there vote share tripled and they narrowly lost the seat due to conservative transfers going to a socialist candidate. Thats the reality of PRSTV it can work against you as much as it can trip you up. In any event there is a seat there for SF in the next election, no mistake.

    What SF and Syriza have in common is that they oppose the neo liberal laissey faire approach to economics that has dominated international political economy and drove us into the worst global financial crises in history. They also agree on a policy of facing up to europes overlords in relation to the debt issues . This does NOT mean defaulting, it means getting unreasonable blackmailers to loosen their grip around the throats of thousands of people living in abject poverty due to austerity and the ridiculously harsh conditions of the loan repayment agreements.

    As for how people vote, nothing is set in stone. People and societies evolve on every level including the political. We see in the current circumstances a swing to the left. And its natural to expect that given the crises. The election will decide who forms a government. I doubt SF will make it this time, however as the main opposition party in a future Dail, it sets them up as the natural choice for government next time round.

    The cuts they agreed to in NI were done so at the point of a sword. Anybody reasonable can see they had no choice if the institutions were to survive. In fact they were coming under sustained criticism in the media and on this site for not being responsible enough to maje the tough decisions necessary. In the end at least they negotiated a better deal than what was first offerred. However, they know that while partition exists De Nort will always have to live off the crumbs from londons table.

  • Paddy Reilly

    No, let the Banks reduce their value to near nothing and the state can pick them up for same. This is sensible capitalism, not SF castles-in-the-sky Marxist foolery. Ireland has been duped into picking up other people’s bills. SF have by good fortune emerged as the party of sense in this matter.

  • Reader

    ams918: BTW as I’m typing this my thumb and forefinger seem to be making an “L” shaped sign on my forehead.
    So imagine the spectacle you would make of yourself if you ever got a united Ireland.

  • Cue Bono

    What exactly is your point here? Do you want us to have state subsidised industries were people work for 50p an hour?

  • Cue Bono

    I see that you come from the optimistic wing of the Provo movement. The one where the ‘victory’ at Drumcree outweighs the whole surrender and disarming of PIRA and morphing into a chav version of the SDLP.

    What relevance does any of that have to the fact that a substantial section of the voting public in the ROI think you are lower than subterranean whale sh1te?

  • Cue Bono

    Watch Greece. If they do what they have said they will do then their economy will collapse and there will be chaos on the streets. Then the political parties in Europe who have been heaping praise on their ideas will be left looking like idiots.

  • barnshee

    “The cuts they agreed to in NI were done so at the point of a sword. Anybody reasonable can see they had no choice if the
    institutions were to survive.”

    Not quite -the money ran out and mummy said no more- however the innumerate or wlfuly ignorant in Stormont want to dress it up

  • barnshee

    “Why should the government of Eire or of any other country “do something” about childcare costs? Why should the State (i.e. taxpayers) provide support for single mothers who decided to behave in a manner which caused their single motherhood? Babies do not happen, they are caused”.

    “Who borrowed money which they could not repay – thereby rendering the Eire banks insolvent due to their bad debt burdens? Did anyone grab a citizen of Eire and drag him, kicking and screaming, to the nearest bank to have a £300 loan rammed down his poor Jackeen or Culchie throat?”

    get away ye closet conservative /unionist ye Thems the sort of thing them proddies have been saying for decades ye shud be ashamed of yersel

  • Robin Keogh

    Its easy to be cynical, but when reality bites people have to step up and take charge, like it or not. Armchair politicians and commentators certainly cant solve the issues.

  • Paddy Reilly

    Maybe so, but this has nothing to do with the Irish case. Besides, the economy in Greece has effectively already collapsed.

  • puffen

    So SF do not believe in a welfare state, where are you coming from?

  • Tochais Siorai

    You’ve over egged the pudding a bit but more than a grain of truth there.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Get real ams you could make a similar list for nationalism, in particular SF’s version. They’ve done more u turns than a Monaghan boy racer.

  • $136050377

    “What relevance does any of that have to the fact that a substantial section of the voting public in the ROI think you are lower than subterranean whale sh1te?..”
    ==============================================
    Have you spoken to 4.5 million people?
    If people don’t vote SF..It’s because SF are from left wing end of the scale.
    It’s got nothing to do with the IRA.
    A former Irish minister described Brighton as “been almost as great as 1916.”
    The Irish don’t sound squeamish to me.
    Most Irish feel the Orangeys deserved it.
    Don’t worry..They have no love for you lot.

  • $136050377

    My point is. Europe can’t compete..You dim orangey seem to think it can.

  • $136050377

    Imagine away reader..Add that to your 1001 reasons as to why you can’t have a UI.
    My number one reason is the Orange tribe are useless.
    As least the bRits had the decency to empty their prisons to populate Australia.
    Over in Ireland we just got the dregs. Lower than prisoners.

  • $136050377

    I don’t care what SF do. I am not a member..am not a voter. So why mention them to me.
    Fact is though..This is an Orange blog. I wouldn’t give an inch to those dregs of humanity.

  • $136050377

    “What exactly is your point here? Do you want us to have state subsidised industries were people work for 50p an hour?2
    =========================================
    hmmm.
    I think I mentioned AirBus..Do they pay their workers 50p an hour?..News to me.
    I also mention V.W..Who happen to be 20% by the Regional Government of Saxony IIRC.
    Do they pay their workers 50P?
    I also mentioned the banks and indirectly EADS and BaE (arms firms)
    Do they etc,…etc..etc.?
    Time for you to spread your wings out of your Loyalist barrio , mo Chara.
    And find out how the World really works.
    P.s cross reference South Korea.
    Once again the brain trust of unionism strikes again.
    Keep them coming., Huge fan.

  • Reader

    Well, quite. When I read George McDonald Fraser’s book, “The Steel Bonnets” about the English/Scottish borderers in the century before the plantation, it struck me that the list of names was a very close match to roll call for my years at school in Bangor.
    And of course, the borderers supplied Ireland with Hume and Adams too. It must be something in the genes.
    Anyway, the following is nowhere near complete but well worth a play:
    http://www.celticfamilymaps.com/

  • Paddy Reilly

    As I understand it, the Adams clan were a sub-sept of the East Highland Gordon clan, so technically not borderers.

  • Tochais Siorai

    You’ve never actually spoken to a Unionist, have you?

  • $136050377

    Well let me see. apart from at least 2 of my former work colleagues who were Organists..Let me see.

  • $136050377

    Oh..and BTW I almost forgot..there were 3 English and two other Irish at my workplace who didn’t think highly of one of those particular Ulcer-Scots either. So, guess it must have been just bad BO or something, right? LOL

  • Reader

    Well, that’s an unexpected level of ancestral detail. Those Normans do get about a bit, don’t they?

  • aber1991

    Who voted those governments into power?

  • aber1991

    “What relevance does any of that have to the fact that a substantial section of the voting public in the ROI think you are lower than subterranean whale sh1te?”

    Why should any Catholic worry about what Staters think? In 1921 they abandoned us to Prod tyranny. In 1969 they stood idly by. Worse, they have helped to shore up Prod tyranny by co-operating with the UK against the IRA even though the UK governments have not shown themselves worthy of such co-operation.

  • aber1991

    “get away ye closet conservative /unionist ye Thems the sort of thing them proddies have been saying for decades ye shud be ashamed of yersel”

    I am not a Prod. I am a Catholic, a real Catholic – a victim of Prod tyranny.

  • $136050377

    I realise that. the best thing I can say is there’s some hope that they can assimilate and evolve.

    But there is no excuse for unionism to exist in Ireland.

    It has no place..the bRitish were crooks in Ireland and any ideology which allows brits control of an acre of Irish land is a crime.

    Read this book extract for a flavour of Irish life under the criminal bRitish regime.

    And try to tell me unionism is okay or even right.

    This extract proves how the bRitish destroyed Irish industry and stamped Irish into the dirt. No excuse for orangeys..none..they are disgusting.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=KgYP2ty_92sC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=navigation+acts+ireland&source=bl&ots=I9b-zT9ozn&sig=3nkqddkef9MHUNdjLy5gGNWU5GA&hl=en&sa=X&ei=qJLCVKjQLYawUYmjgpAJ&ved=0CFAQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=navigation%20acts%20ireland&f=false

  • barnshee

    ” Armchair politicians and commentators certainly cant solve the issues.”

    Well the “real” (lol) politicians won`t

  • barnshee

    I am not a Prod. I am a Catholic, a real Catholic – a victim of Prod tyranny

    Repeats

    Thems the sort of thing them proddies have been saying for decades ye shud be ashamed of yersel

  • Robin Keogh

    Well thats all we got, unless ur willing to stand urself and sort it all out?

  • barnshee

    Wrong old chap -the only things Unionists want are
    1 SFA to do with the ROI
    2 As little as possible to do with the catholic/ republican/ UK teat sucking element of NI society

    Clear now?

  • barnshee

    “A former Irish minister described Brighton as “been almost as great as 1916.”
    The Irish don’t sound squeamish to me.
    Most Irish feel the Orangeys deserved it.”

    And Dublin and Monaghan are regarded by many as “the return of the serve ” and also well deserved?

  • barnshee

    Not a historian then
    A lot of the “dregs” sent to Australia were Irish

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Australian

    I see the process continues today except now its called emigration

  • Guest

    Well said barnshee,

  • $136050377

    The teat sucking is in Larne, Rathcoole and Tigers’ Bay.
    Clear now?

  • $136050377

    Yes it is regarded as a return of the serve by homicidal depraved imperialists.
    who have a tendancy toward genocide.

  • $136050377

    Emigration??
    what is that.
    Is that when you have 11,500 Brits on welfare in the Free state versus 2,600 Irish on Welfare in bRitland?
    Is that emigration, is that what it means.

  • barnshee

    Its unfixable in” de northe” short of effective dismantling of the “welfare state”

  • barnshee

    “The teat sucking is in Larne, Rathcoole and Tigers’ Bay.”

    Unionist areas old boy wholly entitled to suck

    Er the areas with the most frantic” teat suckers” are (republican)
    West Belfast, North Belfast and City side Londonderry (Check the respective birth rates in the two populations for further information)

    Clearer now?

  • barnshee

    sources please check their names I think you will find the majority of the 11500 are returners to the auld sod

  • $136050377

    “..”The teat sucking is in Larne, Rathcoole and Tigers’ Bay.”

    Unionist areas old boy wholly entitled to suck…”

    =================================#
    hmm…So that’s what Harold Wilson meant when he called them “spongers then
    ROFLMAO.
    Your posts are English Condescension 1-oh-1
    Don’t worry though..I have the long held belief that english feet are made of clay.
    I recommend some Saw-Dust to mix with the clay for your condescension to stand up on it’s own..or at the very least to give it some body eh?

  • barnshee

    Note the repeat

    Er the areas with the most frantic” teat suckers” are (republican)
    West Belfast, North Belfast and City side Londonderry (Check the respective birth rates in the two populations for further information)

    Clearer now?

    “that english feet are made of clay”.
    whatever their feet are made of their coinage seems popular -particularly in the afore mentioned (republican) areas

  • barnshee

    “Well let me see. apart from at least 2 of my former work colleagues who were Organists..Let me see.”

    What did the others play?

    Were there no flute players there? accordians? bagpipes?

  • $136050377

    Oh No..You mean the population in Republican areas is rising???
    Quelle Horreur..
    When’s the Orange Flight happening??..That would be lovely..I hear the Gorbals in Glasgow is lovely and Toxheath..Or Brixton..But they mightn’t fit in there..
    P.s Don’t let what Fox News said about Birmingham put the Orange dears off…Will you? there’s a good chap.

  • barnshee

    .”That would be lovely..I hear the Gorbals in Glasgow is lovely and Toxheath”

    Unfortunatley these areas already overun with refugees from the ROI

    “Oh No..You mean the population in Republican areas is rising???
    Quelle Horreur..”

    Quelle Horreu Indeed –Poor old Pope even telling you to keep it zipped

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30890989

    Ah well never late than never

  • $136050377

    Well Scotland came within 5% of voting itself outside the Union.
    Shouldn’t it be ripe for plantation before round 2 ???
    And I think the Gud Ole Tony bLIAR, arch Unionist; would have woken to this danger and would have made this so.
    That’s what we need Tony Bliar back in Number 10.

  • Tochais Siorai

    Don’t suppose you have a name for that former Irish minister who said that?

  • $136050377

    He chose to remain anonymous..What would you expect him to do?
    There was another former minister by the surname of Barry of Barry’s Tea fame who looked out from the East coast of Ireland and saw the English coast..He remarked “england just spoils the view of continental Europe from Ireland” Not an exact quote..but words to that effect.
    Ergo..There ain’t no great love lost.