Cahill brings up matter of recordings of her meetings with Adams…

Mary Lou McDonald stumbled a little today on RTE’s Saturday with Brian Dowling programme when the host read out a tweet from Mairia Cahill referencing recordings of her meetings with Gerry Adams.

She mentioned it yesterday in fact, but it wasn’t picked up by the mainstream (8.30 on):

Perhaps she was talking about this little devil originally detected by Sinn Fein in the run up to negotiations at Leeds Castle in September 2004? Adams and his confidantes seem to have been the target.

The BBC reported that the party said the device had two microphones – “one directed at an office, the other at a meeting room”. When they auctioned it the following year, Adams stated in a ‘note of authentication’:

“In January 2005, Eliza Manningham-Butler, head of MI5, admitted that MI5 bugged Connolly House.”

Ball back in Sinn Fein’s court? Or is it MI5’s? [Jasus, a tangled web or wha? – Ed]

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  • It seemed quite clear that Mary Lou McDonald does not dispute that Mairia was abused, nor that an IRA investigation took place. What she does dispute is Mairia’s description of that investigation as an interrogation and that those involved were not there to support Mairia. Mary Lou also had a very different interpretation of Joe Cahill telling her to go to the police.

  • chrisjones2

    Now where does all that ‘inside knowledge’ come from?

    Better that she kept quiet and slunk away. After all, she says she was told some women enjoy rape

  • Jag

    MLM also didn’t answer the question repeatedly put to MLM yesterday on RTE Radio. Two panelists asked her, one asked her more than once, she didn’t respond.

    “During the IRA investigation, was Ms Cahill pitted face-to-face with her alleged abuser” (that’s my paraphrase)

    That question is not going away.

    Of course the alleged Cahill/Morris confrontation could be presented in a different way – “an innocent man was confronted by someone accusing him of the most awful abuse” – but given the fact Ms Cahill would have been a very young woman at the time confronting someone nearly twice her age, it’s hard to escape the unequal nature of any such confrontation. Just the fact of the confrontation taking place is very damaging to the IRA/SF.

  • Ulick

    I don’t see any inside information being displayed. IRA procedures in such matters have been in the public domain at least since Martin Dillon reproduced a copy of the IRA’s Green Book’ as an appendix to ‘The Dirty War’ in the ’90s.
    However given the incessant attention seeking such as the Tweets mentioned above, the demands that people watch the Spotlight program, demands that the likes of Mary Lou meet her then placing silly conditions on such meetings when offered are indication that she is becoming a little unhinged or has just been a complete bullshit artist from the start. Either way by trying to politicize the whole thing she’s rapidly loosing the sympathy of those of us who gave her benefit of the doubt in the absence of any actual evidence.

  • chrisjones2

    “by trying to politicize the whole thing she’s rapidly loosing the sympathy of those of us who gave her benefit of the doubt in the absence of any actual evidence.”

    Another smear?

    Amazing that a victim who tells what the Movement did to her is immediately attacked for “politicizing it”. Did she choose the career of those who tried to intimidate her and cover up? What were SENIOR SF members doing in the middle of all this? It was their choice – not hers.

    As the SINDIE called it today, after all the cases we know about there is mounting evidence of a corporate network at the top of the Republican Movement protecting pedophiles

  • Robin Keogh

    She didnt refuse to answer the question, she could only refer back to the people who were present at the time. MlM was not there, how an earth could she state with any certainty if Maria met her alleged abuser?

  • Gopher

    Not sure I agree, looking at it objectively as one can, it appears SF are digging the hole. SF are looking for votes outside its usual comfort zone and this ongoing saga and the rally around the leader whilst it might be popular amongst the enthusiasts has damaged those amongst the party who were trying to put on a softer facade for the benefit of garnering votes and credibilty. You have to had it to Gerry he has now damaged a leader in waiting, it seems the smartest amongst the edifice are those that keep stum. SF to normal people, continue to look like a movement which again whilst good for the enthusiasts and sheep wont transcend to an increase in votes, infact one might now see some melting.

  • Robin Keogh

    Mick, with respect; only wishful thinking on your part leads you to assert stumbling. MLM was clear and concise throughout.

  • Tacapall

    Lets be honest about this case, its not one persons word against another its three peoples word against Morris rather than being given the benefit of the doubt he was protected by powerful people in the IRA and lets not forget family history, did Morris not have a brother who was put out of the country by the IRA for breaking into houses and attempting to sexually abuse local women, whats that saying about the abused becoming the abuser

  • Ulick

    “What ere senior Sinn Féin figures…” – erm they were senior IRA figures, there in response to allegations Ms Cahill made about an IRA member to other IRA members.

  • Jag

    @Robin, I disagree with you, I think she did refuse to answer the question. The podcast is available here, decide for yourselves.

    http://www.rte.ie/radio1/saturday-with-claire-byrne/

    But with respect to other limb of what you say, no-one is saying she was there, but it is alleged that SF members were. MLM is the vice president of SF, and as someone who has championed the cause of the Magdalene victims and the Bethany victims, you’d think that between last weekend and yesterday, she would have picked up the phone and asked the SF members allegedly there, what the story was. The cynics amongst us will think she does know the answer because of her position and authority and areas of interest, and that she is not answering because of the political damage it will inflict on her and her party. However, that’s just speculation on my part, but surely it’s reasonable speculation.

  • chrisjones2

    They are senior SF figures now arent they. Whoops. So you are saying that they were all in the IRA ? Including Gerry?

  • Robin Keogh

    If she doesnt know then she cant answer the question, she also pointed out that she is was somewhat shackled. She correctly stated that it was up to those who had spoken to Mairia to come forward in the media if they chose to do so. She also called and anybody with info to come forward to the authorities, moreover she also made it crystal clear that offences such as those alleged should be investigated and duly punished were possible regardless of who is involved, be it SF, the BBC, the Church etc. What we are seeing here is the failure to pin one accusation on the Shinners leading to attempts to pin another in the hope that something will stick. This doesnt serve the cause of justice and it certainly doesnt help Mairia. Similar to the McConvilles, the desperation to get Gerry simply clouds out the main issue ( in this case finding the beast who hurt Maria) and results in the victim getting dropped and deserted when Gerry is not got. The whole thing is now turning into a circus thanks to hysterical sections of the media and some unscrupulous politicians not leasst Micheal Martin of FF who’s manipulation of Mairia is obvious and barefaced.

  • Comrade Stalin

    she’s rapidly loosing the sympathy of those of us who gave her benefit of the doubt in the absence of any actual evidence.

    Ulick, you were straight out of the blocks casting doubt on Máiría’s account as soon as the programme was broadcast.

  • Jag

    Pearse Doherty, a rising star in SF (Southern branch) has spoken about the Ms Cahill matter on RTE radio. He’s resorting to “if” the IRA/SF investigation took place along the lines claimed by Ms Cahill then “that was wrong”

    No evidence that Pearse carried out his own investigations to determine whether or not it was an “if”
    No mention of consequences for people overseeing something “that was wrong” though of course there is an “if” appended to that

    Poor show.

    SFer position appears to be that because Ms Cahill was corresponding on cordial terms until 2008 with someone allegedly involved in the IRA/SF investigation (I don’t mean IRA/SF in the TUV sense, just that Ms Cahill has claimed that some people involved were from Sinn Fein and some from IRA), those cordial communications contradict Ms Cahill’s claims that she was traumatised by the experience of the investigation.

  • Robin Keogh

    Wishful thinking on your part. This will fade away given time exactly the same way as the McConville saga did. The Shinners abd GA were hounded for almost a year in the run up to the last election and they ended up getting their biggest vote ever. In the South at least the population have become indiffent to scandals about SF simply because they come so fast and furious. Oh there will be a dint in their poll ratings next time out but it will be negligable and temporary. What slugger and other anti SF merchants have failed to realise is that people just switch off after you have cried Wolf so many times.How many failed attempts to destroy Adams and SF does there need to be before those idiots realise that the voters have copped the real agenda and are far more interested in bread and butter issues.

  • Robin Keogh

    Thats completly wrong and deliberately misleading. SF are claiming no such thing. They are pointing out that there was favourable communication between maria and at least one member of the i socalled investigation team, showing that there was positive support there acknowledged by Maria herself. This in no way whatsoever signifies SF are rubbishing her claims. Pearse Doherty’s “ifs” are entirely appropriate given the lack of direct evidence and the opposing version of events.

  • chrisjones2

    I was talking about your inside infromation when you suggets she is being advised by ” O’Hanlon and the rest of the “Vixens”.”

    Where did you get that from?

  • chrisjones2

    “the lack of direct evidence ”

    Yes…she says she was raped he says she wasn’t. She was a child at the time. There was a cover up that delayed a REAL investigation by years. Now shes being revictimised by SFs further leis

  • Jag

    “They are pointing out that there was favourable communication between maria and at least one member of the i socalled investigation team, showing that there was positive support there acknowledged by Maria herself. This in no way whatsoever signifies SF are rubbishing her claims.”

    I haven’t heard such foul-smelling bullcrap since Madame Villiers claimed the panel for Twadell wasn’t undermining the Parades Commission. Unlike Captain Picard, just because you say it, doesn’t make it so.

    As far as I am concerned, the clear implication from stating Ms Cahill had positive communications with an alleged member of the investigation (do we have to use”if”, isn’t it accepted now there was an investigation), after the investigation had concluded all the way up to 2008, was that her account today which suggests a deeply traumatic experience at the investigation isn’t credible.

  • Ulick

    Not at all. At the time they were known as IRA members. Wilson was heavily covered in the media as OC of IRA prisoners.

  • Ulick

    Healthy scepticism is my default position on most things Stalin, nothing personal to Ms Cahill. For the record I never doubted the abuse took place.

  • babyface finlayson

    Would not the leaders of any party have had a conversation with their party members alleged to be involved in anything which might damage the party?
    They would be hauled in pretty sharpish and told to give their version.
    Why has that not happened?

  • Robin Keogh

    We dont know for sure if that has not happened. The people named by Maria have already given statements to the police as part of the investigation which led to the court case where the prosecution decided to present no evidence. In that context there is not much more the party leadership can do accept to appeal for people with information to come forward which they have done already.

  • barnshee

    “This will fade away given time”

    Won`t even take time– Gerry and Co could be caught with their trouser down (lit) and it would make no difference.

    The proverbial dogs in the street are aware of the various “truths” -it makes no difference come election time. It does however allow for an opinion on “the dogs in the street”

    I did have to have a laugh at the thought of SF being ” far more interested in bread and butter issues.”

  • Robin Keogh

    I actually meant that the public are more interested in breadand butter issues than the slugger et al SF obsession. Personally I think the shinners are good at tacklingthose issues.

  • Ulick

    Eh? You’ve not been following too closely Chris or you would know that already.

  • NMS

    Robin, Irish elections are decided by transfers. Sinn Féin have consistently had problems getting transfers. While I accept that “it is the economy, stupid”, transfers are decided by a myriad of issues. SF do very poorly in Irish elections among women, Can you honestly Sinn Féin, the Rapists’ Party, because this is how they will be portrayed. UKNI elections may be decided by tribalist sectarian headcounts, though I wonder how Michelle Gildernew feels today about her chances of holding on?

    Rape is diferent from a long ago murder. Mrs. McConville is not around to point the finger, Ms. Cahill is.

  • NMS

    Pearse Doherty clearly accepts that she was raped and said so on the RTÉ. I thought he sounded quite shocked as he clearly admitted that he had known her for some time but in my opinion did not believe a word of what he was saying as he gave the party line towards the end of the interview. Richard Crowley was correct to press him as hard as he did, but in the end, Pearse was very poor.

    I have met him on a few occasions and have found that he has a good grasp, not this time though. However putting him out on a flagship programme is in the short-term a clever move, he is now tied into the Party line. However, this is not over yet. Will any Provo break ranks?

  • Robin Keogh

    In fairness i think we will have to wait until the next election to see if there is any kick back. I cant see it myself but you could be right. SF ability to attract transfers is slowly improving from a low 5% 15 yrs ago to between 12 and 25% now depending on the constituency. Its a long game.

  • NMS

    User Actions FollowAodh‏@AodhBC
    I’ve just now received a DM urging silence because “the Republican family is hurting.”
    No, I don’t understand it either.

  • Bryan Magee

    When these sort of things have happened to SF in the past, including cover up of child abuse, the strategy of SF is to “brazen it out” until the issue goes away. I think that’s what they’re doing here.

  • Bryan Magee

    It reminds me of the time when one of their number murderd Robert McCartney, in front it seemed of a lot of SF people in a Belfast pub, but all the SF people claimed to be in the toilets at the time of the murder. Gerry Adams claimed to want to seek justice, and truth, but it seemed to many to be most unlikely that he really did. He “brazened it out” until the issue went away because the news agenda moved on eventually. But I think it has left a lot of people and victims unhappy with this approach. Ditto the approach to child abusers within their ranks. Seems this approach is happening here?

  • Dixie Elliott

    But she knows Gerrys telling the truth….

    Despite the fact he normally gets caught out lying.

  • Dixie Elliott

    From letting 6 Hunger Strikers die for an election result to Jean McConville, to his niece Aine to Mairia Gerry’s name always was prominent.

    When it comes to unscrupulous politicians I’m certain the judgement of history will put Gerry at the top followed closely by the Queens own Marty.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Why was a rape and abuse case hidden in an IRA membership charge Robin?

    It wouldn’t be to put pressure on the victim to have to prove that the rapist and those protecting him were members of the IRA before she could hope to get justice….Or would it?

    Then there would be the added pressure of giving fanatics the chance to further put pressure on the victim to withdraw by publicly calling her a tout.

    Now where have we seen the tout label used before if not the Boston recordings case?

  • Dixie Elliott

    And of course you Ulick, unlike Mairia, hasn’t the guts to come out from behind the fake name to give your opinion.

    Are you scared of being exposed for what you are….a fanatical cult follower who would attack the victim of rape/child abuse rather than question your leadership?

  • Robin Keogh

    I envy the fact that you can convince yourself something is true just by continuously repeating it

  • Dixie Elliott

    If you think this is the only case you are indeed a very silly and naive Adamsite Robin. Turn your ear towards Derry and you’ll hear the rumblings of more to come…

  • Dixie Elliott

    Aye indeed. Flying business class of course.

  • Robin Keogh

    You should really take that up with the minister in charge of justice

  • Dixie Elliott

    The kickback will be after the Adamsites get into government. The following election will see them back where they belong…A small party clutching some very sore balls….

  • Dixie Elliott

    Was Martina who wept for Gerry and Mary Lou not politicizing it when they called for the heads of the Catholic bishops?

    Or were they just being their usual hypocritical selves?

  • Dixie Elliott

    Theres plenty of things you could take up with the Justice minister but I’m certain when it comes to National interests that he normally keeps his job by looking the other way….

    What good would he do when even Shaun Woodward was worried about ‘Poor Padraig’ and not the actual victim?

  • Dixie Elliott

    Deny all you want but the fact is on each and every case I mentioned those who went up against Gerry and his lackies repeatedly exposed them for the liars they are….

    Why I wonder did Gerry end up sounding like a liar and being exposed as a liar while the likes of O’Rawe, Breen, Aine and Mairia sounded very convincing?

    Because Robin you can’t get caught out telling the truth.

  • Robin Keogh

    Thanks for that

  • Dixie Elliott

    No bother Robin. Someone was quietly replaced in recent weeks. That’s all I’m saying.

  • Robin Keogh

    As long as they dont use tax payers money they can fly in private jets as far as I am concerned

  • Robin Keogh

    I am sorry you are surrounded by a bad smell, I can only suggest you clench harder. I imagine that the investigation was very traumatic, from what i have seen and read; all rape victims find the investigation process very distressing. its horrific that they have to go through the process in order to bring their offender to book. If Maria had a favourable relationship with members of the investigating team it might suggest that they were at least sympathetic and supportive towards her. That being the case and we still dont know for sure; it tells us that the trauma of the investigation is the problem and not the people who were conducting it. In any event Jennifer McCann has disagreed with Marias portrayel of how events unfolded as have the other peolple who were involved.

  • Jag

    If the organisation of which you’re a senior member, is being accused of conducting rape courts, pitting alleged victim/perpetrator together, and moving alleged abusers away from their neighbourhoods to places where they may still be a danger, then it’s incumbent on you to make your own investigations and not sit back, fold your arms and tell any critic to “prove it”. We hated the Church for that attitude in the past, why should SF expect a different result today?

    I’m still hearing SFers using the term “if” about the binary reality of an investigation/inquiry/interrogation in Ms Cahill’s case, more than a week after the the Spotlight programme garnered headlines. That indicates to me the “prove it” attitude is reigning supreme and that the wagons have been firmly circled.

  • Ulick

    Change the record Dixie. You have already proven on other threads that you are incapable of adult respectful discussion. I have better things to be doing than wasting my time engaging with someone who launches into bitter personal attacks against those who hold different opinions.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Oh and what about the Northern Bank money or the laundered fuel money or the money from the container loads of cigarettes?

  • Dixie Elliott

    “adult respectful discussion” ?

    Given what you said about a Mairia Cahill above thats a bit of a brassed-neck remark which also exposes the fact that you can’t answer me.