This is how Gerry Adams reported his brother’s abuse to social services (it’s quite something)

From the court records, I think this is worth a thread on its own. It’s pretty much how Gerry Adams reported the news that his brother Liam was abusing his own daughter to the Social Services in Belfast. Well, no. That’s not what Gerry did. This is what the leader (then as now) of Sinn Fein actually did the day after he heard the news:

Q. Well may I suggest to you that you, as the Member of Parliament for this area, reporting your own family to the Health Visitor , because of concerns about hygiene and lice, is surely something that would stick in your mind?

A. Well I can’t give you the answer; other than the answer that I have given you.

Q. Well do you dispute that you did make the complaint?

A. Well if I brought anything to the attention of Health Visitors (or anyone else) it wasn’t as a complaint; it was to try and help in the situation. But I ……I don’t have a recollection. This is in ’87 and ’86, so I don’t have a recollection. I do have a recollection of meeting with a Health Visitor in the house. My memory of that was almost that it was accidental, that I was either in the house and she came in, or she was in the house when I went into it.

Q. Well now that’s another occasion, Mr Adams. It wasn’t the Health Visitor you met on that occasion, it was the Social Worker.

A. Right.

Q. …called Sheila Brannigan.

A. Right.

Q. And that was on the 10th of March of 1987, the day after the meeting in Buncrana. You told police, in your interview ……or in your statement, rather, to them in June of 2007 that you recalled neither meeting Miss or Mrs Brannigan, but had no reason to dispute that it happened. Nor did you remember making the complaint to the Health Visitor, or report to the Health Visitor but, again, you’d no reason to dispute that it…that it happened. Now you recall, no doubt, coming to this Court on last Thursday? […]

I have nothing more to add. Just be careful and measured in how respond…

, , ,

  • cynic2

    It is hard to respond. Clearly he was just a concerned uncle. One day he realizes his brother has raped his daughter and in a supportive and positive way the next day he contacts Social Services and reports the mother of the girl for keeping a dirty house.

  • Dec

    ‘I have nothing more to add.’

    I seriously doubt that.

  • Rory Carr

    “It’s quite something,” all right, and also totally nothing – a piece of excised script from which one may make of what one will. Now can be built around it all the fevered and prejudiced imaginings of all those who have built up a storm of resentment over many years against Adams and his political momentum. Excluding however, Mick himself who has “nothing more to add.”

    All the addition will be supplied by the pack who, as Fleggers counselled to keep within the law by the DUP, will hardly be constrained by the get-out warning, “Just be constrained and measured in how (sic) respond…“. As though constraint has been the hallmark of response so far to all the targets set up since the conviction of Liam Adams. Rather it has seemed at times as though we were on the midway of a fairground with the barkers calling us to have a free shy as they set up their coconuts.

    Unedifying.

  • megatron

    I have no comment except this story is not referenced at all on rte news website, you need to look very hard to find it on independent website and it is not on front page on Irish Times website.

    I am giving up making comments on the story itself.

  • “this story is not referenced at all on rte news website”

    megatron, the latest update was ’22:53, Wednesday, 09 October 2013′.

    “it is not on front page on Irish Times website.”

    Role of Gerry Adams now under scrutiny by North’s Police Ombudsman and Attorney General – Wed, Oct 9, Irish Times

    “Liam Adams paedophile case: watchdog investigating police handling” .. Guardian, Oct 9

    The reviews also make it into some of the smaller papers too:

    “Review of Adams ‘cover-up’ decision” .. South Wales Guardian, Oct 7.

    “Gerry Adams faces review over brother’s sex abuse” .. Yorkshire Post, Oct 10

  • Rory, ‘fevered’, ‘prejudiced imaginings’, ‘storm of resentment’ and ‘unedifying’. To coin a phrase: calm down, dear.

  • Mick Fealty

    How could you comment further Dec/Meg?

  • carlota martinez

    One can’t but feel for the plight of Aine Tyrell in the midst of this unedifying spectacle.

    Who was it that was convicted of her abuse?

  • foyle observer

    How unbelievable boring is Slugger becoming this weather.

    How many threads started by Pete and Mick on Edwin Poots?

  • foyle observer

    *unbelievably

  • Dixie Elliott

    Rory Carr and the various others who see no hypocrisy when it comes to members of SF…

    “Commenting this morning on the report on clerical sexual abuse of children in the Dublin Diocese Sinn Féin Vice President Mary Lou McDonald said anyone found to have covered up the abuse of children should be arrested and face the full rigours of the law….”

    28 November, 2009

    So is it OK for the likes of Cardinal Daly to face the ‘full rigours of the law’ and not the likes of Gerry Adams who likewise covered up the abuse of a child?

    Or is Mary Lou a hypocrite?

  • Alias

    “Or is Mary Lou a hypocrite?”

    Merely a career politician who won’t dare to call for her own party boss to be subject to the full rigours of the law that she calls for everyone else to be subject to as that level of consistency would terminate her career. Wee Mary Lou will just suck it up like the rest of the stooges.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Those trying to defend Adams would claim to be Republicans, doubtful though that claim may be, especially given what they sheepishly try and defend.

    My question is this; what do they say to the fact, that knowing his father was a paedophile, he went ahead and gave him a Republican funeral?

    Given that over these threads I’ve asked several questions which they’ve ignored in the interests of self-delusion, I doubt they’ll respond this time.

  • megatron

    Mick – on previous threads I have stated that Gerry Adams acted incorrectly – he almost certainly broke the law (I will the certainty to the courts) and he should resign as leader of SF. Not sure what extra comment is below.

    I am merely pointing out that this is not being taken up by mainstream news sites YET.

    Despite what Nevin has said I cant find it on the rte news front page (I am sure there is a story stored somewhere) and likewise on irish times and independent they carry the story but it is buried way down from the lead.

    If anything merits a further blog post that would be a good one to discuss – why are the mainstream media ignoring (for the most part) this story.

  • megatron

    Sorry for some jumbled english on the last post – meant to read:

    I will leave the certainty to the courts.

    and

    Not sure what extra comment is required.

    Can we have an edit feature?

  • megatron

    Dixie,

    I think its obvious that nobody is answering your query because nobody knows why a family makes decisions about funerals.

  • Drumlins Rock

    I am finding it increasingly difficult to understand how anyone as incoherent as Gerry got to be the leader of any political party. Maybe that’s his method, create as much confusion as possible and hope the questions go away.

    It is sad that so many republicans on here are unwilling to allow any criticism, and by so doing are once again sharing in the guilt, I guess as supporters of child murders it is not really surprising but all the same you would hope for some humanity to show through.

    From the comments here it is clear Gerry will hold on his position as leader for life, we might even see another purge of those who pose a threat, on a personal level most unionist would love to see the back of this relic, but politically, long may he reign.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Slightly off topic but the April 22nd court transcripts also proves that Adams was dishonest with IRA volunteers to the point that many lost their lives needlessly.

    This is an admission from Adams own mouth that he was talking to the Brits while still telling IRA volunteers that the War would go on…

    Q: Mr Adams, have I asked you anything about the RUC just, or Social Services? We’re coming to that in due course. And the Good Friday Agreement certainly wasn’t being negotiated in 1987; was it?

    A: The Good Friday Agreement wasn’t, but the peace process was.

    Q: The peace process had begun then; had it?

    A: Well the history of that is now well known, and you don’t need me to give you through all of the dates involved.

  • Dixie Elliott

    …the point is that Adams now backs up what was always denied and that is; in his book ‘A Secret History of the IRA’ Ed Moloney claimed that from 1986 Gerry Adams with Fr Alex Reid in tow was seeking a way out of the War and firstly met the Free Staters [ clearly they then told the Brits] John Hume and later the British.

    The Dark himself said* that after touring the country in 1987 he told McGuinness that the IRA wasn’t ready to use the Libyan weapons and that another year of training was needed…

    McGuinness said that they needed a push right away as rumours were circulating that they were in the process of winding down the War.

    Clearly if Adams had intentions of a peace process instead of encouraging an upsurge they had the excuse to wind things down on the Dark’s recommendation?

    How many IRA Volunteers died between then and 1994 who didn’t know what a priest knew?

    *The IRA and Armed Struggle by Rogelio Alonso.

  • qwerty12345

    I really couldn’t care less about the political fortunes of Gerry Adams – he hasn’t lived up to the standards he has asked of others.

    No tears if he were to go over this, although it’s unlikely.

    Now, what would be an interesting discussion would be why will Adams survive this (EVEN if he were still MP for West Belfast)

    A good starting point might be the recent alleged shooting of a young woman by the UVF while we all collectively stare into the flegger / OO / DUP on the platform abyss. While Unionism shows little sign of even the most basic of reform I’m afraid this flurry of posts on “The Beard” isn’t going to hold much sway with anyone.

  • Mick Fealty

    Qwerty,

    I think I agree with that, although it has less to do with just one incident and more to do with a much longer term configuration between nats and unionists, comprising Realpolitik, failure of political narrative, and, if you like, some pretty heavy bad karma.

  • sherdy

    Mick, – How many ways and how many times can you rehash the same story?
    Presumably your only motives are altruistic – concerned for the welfare of Aine.

  • Just as in the whole troubles – things are getting mixed up here. First and foremost there was an internal family tragedy that took place and that is the most important issue.

    Secondly – at the time it happened this place was a seriously screwed up place. If Adams did what he probably should have done – gone straight to the authorities with full disclosure – then he probably would have been sacrificing his own career at that time and he and we know what that would have meant, well actually we only know in hindsight what it would have meant.

    It may seem absolutely crazy now that a situation existed where that even had to be considered – but it did and no one has to have faux outrage at what he didn’t do.

    I’d say that even now he is unable to make full disclosure – precisely because of what is happening on these pages and in knowledge of what would happen in mainstream media if more was leaked. Goodness knows what the family did internally to address it – we will never know, probably much like the families of many abusers but without the global profile.

    Right now he has a legacy to protect and he will protect it with all his will until it is torn away by disclosure or betrayal.

    I think everyone here “gets” this so I am surprised that people are poking this thing as if anyone is actually surprised that the stench was covered up.

  • Mick Fealty

    Michael,

    This is not meant to be flippant, rather just a way to make an important political point…

    Do you hear anyone from the party in any official capacity defending their leader? You don’t because what’s he’s done historically and in the recent past, is utterly indefensible.

    That tells you everything you need to know about this situation. There are several other take aways from this too, which ought to worry republican activists.

    To be blunt, if the man can lie so easily to a member of his own family, aren’t you just a little worried that he’s been lying to you too?

  • But that is exactly the point – who is going to wash their linen in public when it is about child abuse – that is so toxic that no-one is going to hang him out to dry on it. His legacy is their legacy. Keep head down and it’ll blow over is the line.

    I think more than anything this reinforces how shaky this whole edifice is – now people begin to see it, pull a thread and it unravels. But at what cost. I suppose we won’t know until someone really gets hold of a thread and doesn’t stop til there’s political blood all over Connolly House. I don’t think this is it. Not over child abuse.

    If anyone is anyway thorough in their thought process they won’t have magic tinted glasses on anymore about how the process got played out back then or how “special” anyone was in their role (except for John Hume who stands above all for articulating a process). The debunking continues but with so much unspoken – culminating in “what was it all for”.

    I suppose whoever gets to that conversation first has freed themselves from the past, but I don’t see it in this episode.

  • cynic2

    Michael

    “Just as in the whole troubles – things are getting mixed up here. ” Why is that phrase in here. You are attempting to equate this with other wrongs?

    “First and foremost there was an internal family tragedy that took place and that is the most important issue.”

    No first and foremost a child was raped . then she was ignored and her rapist father was put in charge of many other children when the Party President did not warn them or stop his activities in these araes

    Secondly – at the time it happened this place was a seriously screwed up place.

    Is it any different now? I also doubt we will agree on who played the biggest part in screwing it up

    “If Adams did what he probably should have done – gone straight to the authorities with full disclosure – then he probably would have been sacrificing his own career at that time and he and we know what that would have meant, well actually we only know in hindsight what it would have meant.”

    If he had done it immediately Liam would have gone to gaol earlier and been out by now and the risk to other children avoided> Gerry would probably have been lauded for blowing the gaff on him.

    ” It may seem absolutely crazy now that a situation existed where that even had to be considered – but it did and no one has to have faux outrage at what he didn’t do.”

    My outrage isn’t faux. i am genuinely outraged at what that girl was put through. Arent you? Do you seriously feel that her outrage is ‘faux’ too,

    I’d say that even now he is unable to make full disclosure – precisely because of what is happening on these pages and in knowledge of what would happen in mainstream media if more was leaked.

    ” So what you are saying is that it is even worse than we already know? I do not understand your logic.

    Goodness knows what the family did internally to address it – we will never know, probably much like the families of many abusers but without the global profile.

    ” We do have an inkling what ‘the beard’ did. Aine has told us

    “Right now he has a legacy to protect and he will protect it with all his will until it is torn away by disclosure or betrayal”

    Ah so he’s being noble and not saving his own political skin. Dream on. And what legacy do you see? NI locked in the UK, The Irish Constitutional Claim gone? Over 80% of people in de nurth saying they want to stay in the UK?

    “I think everyone here “gets” this so I am surprised that people are poking this thing as if anyone is actually surprised that the stench was covered up.”

    I am not surprised. I am still outraged

  • Sp12

    Mick
    Either you’re Oscar Wilde or Oscar Wilde loves your wordsmithery (Is that a real word, I dunno, I’m more at home with scala myself, which is far more elegant than English)

    http://www.politics.ie/forum/sinn-fein/216588-should-gerry-adams-resign-his-seat-103.html#post7284041

    😉

  • son of sam

    . the headline on Liam Clarkes column in the Belfast Telegraph today says it all”Adams’credibility is now beyond repair”.With the imminence of the elections in Norther Ireland next year,will many of the Sinn Fein candidates want to be seen with him on the campaign trail?As Clarke remarks”such a reek of scandal now surrounds him that he is blocking the Sinn Fein message”.

  • cynic2

    Don’t read that as a defence of what he did – if you do you are putting your own spin on it. It’s more a question of asking what the hell way did people think he would react? There is a logic (not a justification) to what he did.

    It’s an ugly logic but shit wasn’t everything ugly then. We live in different times now – don’t go thinking attitudes that are at large today were around back then.

    The faux outrage is clear – as if people are outraged all of a sudden that Gerry Adams didn’t cooperate with the security forces about a rape, at a time when hundreds of people were being killed, in a war. You already have him as a monster. Come on, time to grow up.

  • Mick Fealty

    Not me…

  • Dixie Elliott

    The confusing thing about this is, when Aine went to the RUC in 1987 she says they tried to recruit her as an informer.

    Aine was willing to have her father arrested and charged with rape and abuse, why didn’t they go ahead and use the unquestionably valuable propaganda against Gerry Adams?

    OK so Liam was living in Buncrana but the RUC could have asked to have him extradited thus at least using the publicity against Gerry whether or not they succeeded.

    But they didn’t they tried to recruit Aine. Strange to say the least.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    From this article not did Gerry know so did the provos, and they were to get Laim out of the country, and this is where Gerry’s reference to Liam being in America or Canada.

    According to this article he was hiding with an Irish priest in the priests IRA hide out in New York.

    So not only did Gerry and the IRA know, now the Roman Catholic church are implicated, in the guise of priest Moloney.

    “In 1984, when the Provisional IRA needed someone to hide Liam Adams, they turned to a priest in New York for help. The approach to Father Patrick Moloney came not long after his first brush with the law. He remembers it was 1984 because it was the year he was acquitted of gun-running charges.

    The approach to Father Moloney came from Belfast Provos, and Gerry Adams played no direct role in finding a bolthole for his brother. That was not surprising, since the priest distrusted the Sinn Féin leader’s politics; he would probably have given him short shrift. But he was ready to help. It was clear Liam was in trouble, although Moloney did not know why.

    Liam Adams’s marriage to Sally Corrigan effectively ended in 1982 and he had taken up with another girl, Bronagh, who joined him in his New York hideout for a while and later married him in Dundalk. A picture of a smiling Gerry Adams at their wedding reception would eventually blow a hole in the Sinn Féin leader’s cover story that he and Liam had been estranged since 1987.

    “My understanding at the time was that they wanted him out of circulation,” said Moloney. “Gerry had no contact with me. It was other Belfast people, from the republican movement. [Liam] had been paraded around from pillar to post until he came to me. He was just a loose wire in some ways, and they were also a little bit afraid of him. How shall I put this? He was a weak link in the chain. I don’t think they trusted him.”

    http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/Sunday_Times/arts2010/feb28_how_IRA_hid_Liam_Adams__EMoloney.php

  • Charles_Gould

    Gerry Adams appalls me. So low in moral integrity.

  • Mick Fealty

    Dixie, I think you are making the mistake of reading too much into too little in the way of evidence.

    Aine will almost certainly have felt that pressure. But isn’t one of the heavier prices the people of west paid for relying on paramilitary policing that they could be so heavily compromised in reaching out to state services/forces, no?

  • Zig70

    So Gerry didn’t want to go to the police. Non story.
    Gerry has dubious moral barometer. Again, news flash.
    Gerry sounds a bit dilusional, have you read his twitter feed?
    Nats who dislike poots is at 110%.
    I’m a wee bit surprised the lack of traction in the south.
    Most nats who are old enough would appreciate the 60s/70s were a difficult time. Gerry was a construct of that situation and unionist someday will accept their role in leadership being thrust on him.
    Aside from that the actual law in terms of witnesss is being missed. Is this why Jim is quiet and Poots isn’t in terms of lawmakers who understand the law. You could write endlessly about screwed up witness statements but thats not really the point. The question people are asking is why didn’t he have him dissapeared if he is the bogey man of their mothers knee.

  • Dixie Elliott

    I think your missing my point Mick, the RUC had the chance to embarrass Adams and the Republican Movement yet they chose not to take it, opting instead to attempt to recruit Aine.

    Given the fact she had gone to them to have her father charged with rape would indicate she would not be close to the family of Gerry Adams nor would she be able to get close to him or the wider Republican Movement so what use to them would she be as an informer or her mother for that matter?

    As a source of valuable anti-Gerry Adams / Republican Movement propaganda she would have been more useful to them. Would she not?

  • Mick Fealty

    I’m nit picking Dixie. I just think it’s hard enough to use in that way. Night zig…

  • New Yorker

    If no major SF people are condemning Adams on this does it mean they approve of his actions or lack of appropriate action? If this happened in any other party would there not have been strong public condemnation by major party people? If this were in the US he would be out in the cold and scorned if for no other reason than the party being afraid of being associated with such shameful behavior.

  • derrydave

    All,

    As a Sinn Fein supporter I think my thoughts are probably pretty representative of the broader group.

    I feel for Gerry Adams – what must it be like to find that your father and your brother were peadophiles ?? Can anyone who has never been in that situation imagine what they would feel and what they would do. Despite what he claims now, I’m sure there must have been a large part of him that would simply not believe it at the time (and maybe even over the years). What he did was to advise his niece to go to the police. Obviously we were in a war situation – going to the ‘enemy’ himself was just not going to happen.

    No one knows the in’s and out’s of what did and didn’t happen. No one knows the thought processes, the doubts and the mental torture that everyone involved went through. It is in fact really no-one elses business at this stage. The monster reponsible is in jail. Aine and the wider family should be left alone to try to deal with this and repair what must be a pretty broken family. Did Gerry Adams do everything exactly as he should have in a perfect world – probably not. The blame for this ebtire mess lies not with him however, it lies with his brother.

    There is much knashing of teeth and wailing about the fact that Gerry Adams ‘allowed’ his brother to work with children after this, with the implication being of course that children were put at risk by Gerry Adams. What no one mentions of course is that there does not appear to be any claims out there aginst this man over the many years since. I am sure of course that all those hammering Gerry Adams on this thread would be absolutely salivating at the prospect of something like this coming out – all the better to blame and attack the innocent brother of the abuser.

    The whole spectacle in the above thread is unedifying in the extreme. The glee with which people are using this situation in order to make a political attack on Gerry Adams is really quite sickening. I am sure everyone on this thread would feel exactly the same of course if there were something horrendous like this to happen within their own family circle – fair game for political attack, eh !

    I wish Aine and the wider family all the best in healing and getting over this horrible situation. I have nothing but contempt for those who stick their noses into this private family matter with a view to making it as public as possible in order to try to politically damage someone who they dislike. It really is pathetic.

  • New Yorker

    Derrydave

    What would you have done in the exact same circumstances? Would you report your brother so he would not be near youngsters and get help? Or, would you let it pass unreported?

  • GEF

    “I wish Aine and the wider family all the best in healing and getting over this horrible situation.”

    Indeed derrydave, but maybe you could advise “Aine” from refusing to cooperate with BT’s journalist JOANNE FLEMING by freely giving out info on her uncle now that the court case against her father is over.

    ‘The Beard tried to get me to gag Press over abuse’

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/gerry-adams-niece-aine-reveals-the-beard-tried-to-get-me-to-gag-press-over-abuse-29639018.html

  • Delphin

    Aine waived her right to anonymity. One would assume she was fully aware of the likely consequences of this decision.
    Politics is a rough old trade as they say, and in the past SF/IRA haven’t been exactly squeamish in capitalising on the suffering of others.

  • Alias

    “I feel for Gerry Adams – what must it be like to find that your father and your brother were peadophiles ??” – derrydave

    It looks like another sucker bought the official “Gerry is the victim here” line.

  • Mick Fealty

    Michael’s penetrating comments above are well worth re-reading, especially in this regard:

    …this reinforces how shaky this whole edifice is – now people begin to see it, pull a thread and it unravels. But at what cost. I suppose we won’t know until someone really gets hold of a thread and doesn’t stop til there’s political blood all over Connolly House. I don’t think this is it. Not over child abuse.

    If anyone is anyway thorough in their thought process they won’t have magic tinted glasses on anymore about how the process got played out back then or how “special” anyone was in their role (except for John Hume who stands above all for articulating a process).

    The debunking continues but with so much unspoken – culminating in “what was it all for”. I suppose whoever gets to that conversation first has freed themselves from the past, but I don’t see it in this episode.

    I think Michael is right both in terms of scale and the implications arising. I would venture a guess to that there must be tensions baking within the party/movement over all of this, unless there people inside the party who come to a deal less than I have previously taken them for.

    DD,

    I don’t think that ‘no one knows’ applies after this case. That’s pretty much how the party has literally got away with murder before, but the problem for the party is that WE DO KNOW what happened here.

    Leave aside the shaming aspect of what Adams’ almost instant response to being told about his brother’s abuse was to sick social services on Aine’s mother rather than father. That misses the politics of this. Besides as Michael notes, little else is coming out from this issue directly.

    It is the special pleading that Dave and other party apologists are being forced to make that indicates the real political problem going forward.

    We’ve seen it before in the protests outside Knock Police Station at the arrest of Padraig Wilson. According to SF it’s the police’s job to arrest dissers and loyalists not its own friends of the peace process (no matter what they may have been up to). I’d reference Micheal Martin putting straight on that in the Dail recently, if I could find it.

    But on this occasion the special pleading runs counter to party policy on an issue that no one else is looking to be accepted for. That’s a credibility gap on an important point of policy, and one that can and almost certainly will be exploited by their opponents in the Republic, and possibly in Northern Ireland.

    I don’t believe for a minute that Mary Lou McDonald believes exceptions should be made in the party’s constitution or her party’s previously set tough stance on child sexual abuse. But that is what the party is selling us.

    So can she take a tough stance the next time she or any other party rep wants to takes a view on ‘protecting the vulnerable’? That gap is political legacy of this issue, and the party’s refusal to properly engage on it, I suspect, will haunt them.

    My first take on this was that the damage has been entirely self inflicted. The poison is internal and the party has no easy means for insulating itself from any ongoing damage.

  • Suzanne Breen warns us against being deceived by Gerry’s cunning device, the focus on the family:

    Gerry Adams’ portrayal of the allegations as a plot is a familiar diversionary tactic

    Every time the Sinn Fein president is in trouble or facing criticism, he doesn’t address the issue head on.

    Instead he utters vague statements, wriggles out of dealing with the detail, opts for heavy emotional waffle and portrays every allegation of wrongdoing as a plot by political opponents to crucify him.

  • cynic2

    Michael

    I apologize for misreading you.

  • derrydave

    New Yorker, in the cold light of day it is easy to say I would do x,y,z i.e. I would be completely transparant, would report the matter directly to the police and social services, would support my niece in every way possible, would ensure that everyone knew about my monster of a brother etc.
    Would simply be dishonest of me however to claim to know exactly what this situation was, and to claim exactly how I would act. Things are never black and white with this stuff unfortunately, and emotions and family ties, and disbelief, and love, and shame etc etc are all powerful emotions. IN all this mess no-one wins, however people should remember that there is only one real culprit here, as much as people would love the sins of the brother to be cast upon Gerry Adams.

    As for how Aine has acted or what she has said in public and in private – she has every right to say what she likes about anyone involved in this sorry tale – she will no doubt be full of anger, as well as many other emotions. I would advise her not to make a public issue of this as it may simply make things harder for her to deal with long-term, but she has decided to go public with it as is her right.

    Having been married to someone who suffered sexual abuse at the hands of their father I know how utterly destructive this abuse is to someone’s life, feelings, and emotions. It destroys things that can never be fixed again, and can creates an anger, and depression that never truely abates. I feel nothing but sympathy and pity for anyone who has suffered this awful ordeal – suffering this ordeal however does not automatically make one’s views re the entire situation to be the definitive story. In fact it is quite normal for the victim in cases such as this to strike out in all directions with many others beyond the culprit suffering and being attacked (believe me, I know this from personal exerience!). I’m sure Gerry Adams feels nothing but sympathy for Aine regardless of what she is saying or has said.
    This is just an awful sad story – not anything that people should be playing politics with.

  • derrydave

    ps Mick, your claim to know exactly what has gone on here is either completely dishonest or completely naive. You have absolutely no idea – believe me – absolutely no idea. Don’t let it stop you however from diving into it feet first claiming full knowledge and playing politics with it.

    Also, I don’t believe I have been specially pleading for people now to get involved – I have simply voiced my disgust at the likes of you playing politics with something so personal, and something which you really do not have the first clue about ! Knowing someone who has gone through this horror, it truely sickens me to see people like you sticking your nose in to such a sad family tragedy. Not that it’ll stop you however as you think this is just another part of the game which is politics. Go for it – hope it gets you a few more hits on your website.

  • Mick Fealty

    Dave, it’s in the court transcript, and it’s in Gerry’s own testimony.

    How else can it be described other than special pleading to ‘say’ to the rest of us, look it was tragic, so gives us a bye on our own policy and rules?

  • Gopher

    In all seriousness who would like giving Gerry Adams a photo opportunity right now outside the “movement”. Who would want to be rubbing shoulders with him? Good luck with finding people doing that out of choice. It is testament to the nature of the “movement” and the force of personality of one man on it that they will stick rather than twisting. A complete personality confidence deficit within.

  • Alias

    It must also shock the poster ‘derrydave’ that Northern Ireland’s Director of Public Prosecutions Barra McGrory and its Attorney General John Larkin have also decided to stick their “nose in to such a sad family tragedy.” Imagine “the likes of” them “playing politics with something so personal.” Why, it’s just shocking…

  • @Dixie Elliott
    “The confusing thing about this is, when Aine went to the RUC in 1987 she says they tried to recruit her as an informer.

    Aine was willing to have her father arrested and charged with rape and abuse, why didn’t they go ahead and use the unquestionably valuable propaganda against Gerry Adams?

    OK so Liam was living in Buncrana but the RUC could have asked to have him extradited thus at least using the publicity against Gerry whether or not they succeeded.

    But they didn’t they tried to recruit Aine. Strange to say the least.”

    I think we can all see what your trying to insinuate Dixie. However Aine was still an minor and so anonymity would have been maintained and publicity minimalism. So not strange at all…

  • Mick Fealty

    Quite. [There’s enough material here in the public domain without piling the conspiracies in on top of it]

  • Alias

    Good point, Ulick. Plus it wouldn’t have damaged Gerry Adams even if it did widely enter the public domain (which it wouldn’t have pre-Internet). In common with the Catholic Chruch, it’s the cover-up and the lack of concern for the victim that did the lasting damage.

  • foyle observer

    Unionists and on the lower scale, Loyalists, falling over themselves to discredit Gerry Adams need to wise up.

    Gerry Adams is an innocent man.

    Only 3 weeks ago did Jeffrey Donaldson, on the Nolan Show, vindicate those Paratroopers who murdered 13 men in Derry, as, wait for it, they hadn’t been charged and subsequently prosecuted.

    Absolutlely disgraceful.

  • Mick Fealty

    If that’s what he said, I’d agree, it is disgraceful. But what’s that do with anything other than playing the man rather the ball?

  • foyle observer

    Fair enough Mick.

  • cynic2

    Can you share with us the exact words he used?

  • Mick Fealty

    cynic, off topic. Leave it please?

  • foyle observer

    Off topic but that was it pretty much word for word.

    It’s on one of Nolan’s audioboos…

  • GEF

    “Gerry Adams is an innocent man.”

    foyle observer, So were numerous senior clerics in the RC church but that didn’t stop Gerry from attacking them over crimes of child abuse by other Irish priests

    Councillor Tom Campbell (Alliance) can explain it better in his letter yesterday to BT.

    “Gerry should live by his own words on abuse”

    10 OCTOBER 2013

    IN an opinion piece in the Irish Echo in July 2011, Gerry Adams referred to child sex scandals within the Catholic Church.

    In his article, he attacked the “endless apologies and failures by bishops and archbishops and cardinals to face up to this issue honestly”.

    He went on to say of these clerics that “too often, they have been revealed to have been more concerned about scandal and its impact on the Catholic Church than with the needs and concerns and interests of victims”.

    Following the conviction of his brother, Liam, of 10 charges of sexually abusing and raping his underage daughter (between the ages of four and nine), it has now emerged that Gerry Adams knew about these heinous crimes more than 20 years ago and that he failed to bring this knowledge to the attention of the authorities.

    It now appears that, in a previous trial, Gerry Adams gave evidence that his brother had confessed to his paedophile activities in 2000 in Dundalk.

    This information was not made known to the police on either side of the border, or to social services. Subsequent to this confession, Liam Adams was involved in youth work on both sides of the border.

    Using his own words, at best it can be said that Gerry Adams has failed “to face up to this issue honestly”. To adopt his own words, was Mr Adams “more concerned about scandal and its impact” on his own political career?

    CLLR TOM CAMPBELL (Alliance)
    Newtownabbey Borough Council

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/letters/gerry-should-live-by-his-own-words-on-abuse-29648596.html

  • Granni Trixie

    I find it fascinating that so many republicans or SF supporters react as if there is a call to arms on slugger in defence of their leader. I say this is a puzzle to me because As a member of a political party though I do believe in loyalty and sticking up for your party’s policies, I do not give a blank check and if my leader was in GA position I would not be
    sticking up For him but asking questions. Loyalty doesn’t mean you say wrong is right.

    On a minor point of information, kids get nits but it’s not related to running a dirty home…..it may be an old wives tale but people used to say that they made for the clean children.
    More seriously, I think it is a telling detail that just after hearing from Aine of his brothers crime his act was to report the family to Ss. But then he maybe realised how that looked and so ‘forgot’ about it when interrogated in court.

  • Lionel Hutz

    I think that there is another interpretation of that passage of the evidence. There was a meeting with a health visitor and a social worker. I read it as inferring that the meeting with the social worker was the day after he learned of the allegations against his brother and the purpose of that meeting isn’t spelled out (maybe it was to do with the allegations). The meeting wwith the health visitor was to do with lice and I read this as having been on another occasion.

    I did a few readings of this part of the evidence and I know it’s ambiguous but had this meeting about the lice happened the day after the allegations were made, more would have been made of it.

  • Alias

    There was no need for Adams to report the allegations the day after he met with the rape victim and her mother since they had already reported them the previous month.

    His failure to report relates to (a) evidence he had for 9 years that the paedophile made several confessions to him, and (b) his failure to notify his own party, and (c) his failure to warn youth groups that they had unwittingly employed a paedophile.

  • GEF

    Gerry is getting pissed off with the DUP and the media hounding him on a witch-hunt.

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/sinn-fein-leader-slams-witch-hunt-29653202.html

  • Trixie

    you are right about the internals holding the leader to account but as is seen from the unionists – its politically the worst strategy in the world to wash the linen in public. It’s the paradox of democracy – the more democratic you are the more power is dispersed, the less power to the powerful. In Unionism (especially conservatism) they get around this by using money as a proxy for political power and buying influence through patronage. In Nationalism they are arriving at that later but it will come here too – as was seen in the kids in the sweetie shop behaviours during the celtic tiger in the South.

    Up here – the fear of the other side is still big enough to keep everyone toeing the line and simply knowing that will ensure it is dealt with behind closed doors.

    If a powerful internal splits the ranks right now in SF – chaos may ensue – who knows where it would end. They know that. SDLP aren’t ready if it did happen just as UUP weren’t ready for the flag crisis. But it won’t happen, yet. They may have free radicals in their system but the autoimmune is still powerful.

  • Mick Fealty

    Again Michael, I could not have put it better myself. Fear of the abyss is what’s keeping it all together. I don’t think that can last since there’s an inherent instability in a system that locks stability so rigidly within itself. But for the reasons you suggest, that’s not going to happen on Tuesday week.

    I think (I don’t know for sure) power is going to want to be more distributed if only because of the change in the nature of ICT built networks.

  • Yes – whenever it comes it will be driven from inside and not from attacks which make the circle tighter and draws the response we are seeing that Trixie refers to.

    The Shinners strategy on Unionism has been to let it eat itself with a helpful prod here and there to keep it moving. The Unionist response is reactionary – go on the defensive attack with flags, parades, and flinging any mud lying around. It has never been a useful strategy.

    If I were a Unionist – I’d be thinking like the Americans on Al Qaeda – One million quid to the man or woman who provides the info and proof to bring one of the big ones down.

    This beast is like a dragon (I saw them in Game of Thrones – now there’s a story of intrigue) – a hard shell with a very soft underbelly. Maybe the Unionists know exactly where the soft spot is but haven’t dared lance it for the consequences.

  • Granni Trixie

    Michael

    Apart from your opening para,I haven’t a clue what you are getting at apart from trying to deflect attention from the issue of what is the appropriate response from party members when their leader lets them down to such extent that he is now a lame duck. Leaving aside moral considerations which ofcourse come into play.

  • Mick Fealty

    Michael,

    “…a hard shell with a very soft underbelly..”

    Quite (see Gerry’s plea to back off on the SF site this evening?), and I also think your critique of the negative outworkings of unionist response is spot on…

  • Alias

    “If a powerful internal splits the ranks right now in SF – chaos may ensue – who knows where it would end.”

    There won’t be any split in SF over this or any other issue. The sheep were carefully selected over many years for their docile, subservient and obedient nature. Even if the members were to grow a set, so to speak, and tell Gerry to pack his bags: so what? Is anyone of sane mind still to believe the line that the aged leaders of the state-sponsored murder gangs would even be capable of reverting to violent type if various security agencies decided that outcome best served its interests? The only negative outcome for the state would be the loss of a key asset.

    Is the public also to turn a blind eye in perpetuity to every violation or law or decency by the Shinners, from the murders or Robert McCartney and Paul Quinn to providing cover for the rape of children, because the British state deems its asset so damned useful to its national interest?

    I think, and we’ll know soon enough, that the State will take no action against its asset as a result of the token enquiries it has launched into this sordid affair. So the answer to question is that the state will let them away, literally, with murder and every other criminal act for as long as they continue to serve its interests.

  • There’s nothing very surprising about nationalist actions and unionist reactions; it’s the constitutional tussle, stupid; nationalists seek a UI, unionists prefer the UK.

    As I’ve said previously, Peter and Martin are tough cookies but we don’t know how far they’ll go internally to keep their particular houses in order.

    Perhaps it’s worth pointing out that in New York recently Martin indicated that they were struggling to constrain the more extreme elements of both nationalism and unionism.

    Perhaps someone can explain why nationalists decided to play that particular green card – the removal of the Union flag – at that particular time. Any fool would know that it wouldn’t enhance peace, progress and prosperity.

    I don’t think ‘reliance’ is the apt word when commenting on areas where paramilitaries ruled and rule the roost. Those who sought or seek state protection ran/run the risk of being labelled tout – with all that that implied/implies. In some cases, police had and probably still have to obtain political clearance before taking the sort of action that would be expected elsewhere.

    Here’s one aspect I’ve not seen comment on – the male/female encounter. Gerry was at the tender mercy of two women – one a judge, the other a QC. Perhaps any training he might have had in anti-interrogation techniques didn’t involve that particular combination; little wonder he was reduced to a quivering wreck. How he must have looked forward to some down time in a bubble bath with his ducks.

  • Mick Fealty

    For once Nevin, there’s the key question:

    “Perhaps someone can explain why nationalists decided to play that particular green card – the removal of the Union flag – at that particular time?”

    I think it belongs on the thread about the DUP failing to settle for SF’s terms though.

  • fordprefect

    Dixie Elliot, Alias and Nevin are spot on. One thing I want to add to this debate is, how come in 2005, after the killing of Robert McCartney, Adams gave the police ombudsman the names of seven SF members (who he said could help with their enquiries) and called on others (especially SF members) who were in the bar that night to make statements to the ombudsman or someone/thing that they felt comfortable giving them to, while he waited until over two years later to give a statement about what his brother had did to his niece? And then waited until two years later to amend his statement because he was told that a tv programme about this sordid affair was going to be screened? I think we should be told!

  • Mick, I was responding to Michael’s “The Shinners strategy on Unionism has been to let it eat itself with a helpful prod here and there to keep it moving. The Unionist response is reactionary – go on the defensive attack with flags, parades, and flinging any mud lying around. It has never been a useful strategy.” and your “I also think your critique of the negative outworkings of unionist response is spot on…”.

    I don’t suppose it’ll be the last time that threads tend to meander all over the place and overlap. However, there’s some merit in varying the focus for an overview of the context within which the various scenes are being played out.

    I don’t think I subscribe to the notion that paramilitary organisations have a hard shell and soft underbelly; they’re so much tougher and ruthless than that.

  • But Nevin

    You say that from your viewpoint. The “paramilitary” organisation that you keep on referring to demonstrates the tunnel through which you come at this. You are antagonistic and purposefully so, its consistent. You aren’t alone. The majority of posts on this bog come from deep inside the world views of those posting – i.e. pro or anti their own side.

    It’s OK to say that Unionist strategies are wrong, if they are wrong, and likewise to say that Nationalist strategies are effective if they are effective and vice versa.

    It is uncommon (but not rare) for people to take an extra step back and see some more of the picture (me included). I am delighted to be agnostic on who is right or wrong on any given issue but I am often frustrated with the way that people continually push their own musings as if they are the one truth. The biggest issue in Northern Ireland is to see a sense of journey – that people are moving and adapting, not continually defending their position. Among us here David Crookes, Comrade Stalin, and others like Morpheus stand out as having that in them. It’s very refreshing when it happens.

    With regard to SF and their soft underbelly – it is soft, as is any monolithic structure. This is easily evident by the extreme cautiousness with which they have crept towards the mainstream in policing, reactions to violence, working the institutions. They are exposed among the people they worked with over the years, but they know that in the bad years they weren’t that well supported so their support is on loan. But they are making that journey, all the while trying to keep an ever bigger constituency coherent. That opens cracks and weaknesses and vulnerability. It’s just not seen or exploited. The big danger for unionism is that SF continue to transform to adapt to this new moderate reality and leave Unionism in its extremism.

    If SF makes the transition then there is nothing to worry about as they are a fully democratic party with wide appeal. What’s not to like. But I reckon that scares the crap out of many.

    We all thought that DUP were making this same transition and Peter Robinson even went looking for Catholic votes until the mask slipped and fell to the floor. Damn, we would have gotten away with it if weren’t for those pesky flag kids.

  • “demonstrates the tunnel through which you come at this. You are antagonistic and purposefully so, its consistent.”

    Michael, I thought it was generally recognised that SF is the political wing of the Provisional Republican Movement and that the latter is managed by the Army Council. Even Mitchel McLaughlin acquiesced to the assertion that the AC is recognised by PRM members as the legitimate government of the island of Ireland. The cessation of violence as means of bringing about change is greatly to be welcomed but a lot of other stuff is still going on.

    Your caricature of me is hilarious. Perhaps you should have a word with those SF folks who support my endeavours for better governance or who seek my assistance. It was a SF rep who jumped to my defence when I became the target of abuse by a legal eagle.

    This narrative of a journey is a load of baloney. The biggest issue remains the constitutional issue so that’s why I proposed a different approach about twenty years ago and it was based on over twenty years experience of folks working together for the common good, irrespective of creed or class or capability.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    In July 2011 Adams wrote an article for the Irish Echo called “Enda Kenny Is Speaking for All of US”.

    The subject is the cover ups in the Roman Catholic church of it’s institutionalized paedophilia. Just a couple of Adam’s quotes.

    “Secrecy, deception, lies and cover-up were also the approach adopted by the Catholic Church hierarchy in Ireland when it came to dealing with clerical abuse of children”.

    A question for Adams did you write the script for the romanists as you are guilty of every thing you accuse them of, hypocrite. He finishes with the sentence below.

    “There is a grievous lack of leadership. But more importantly the church hierarchy have completely failed to live up to the teachings of Jesus”.

    “Jesus wept”

    http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2011/07_08/2011_07_27_Adams_EndaKenny.htm

  • Dixie Elliott

    derrydave like the other Adamsites are so dedicated to Gerry that they choose to hide behind usernames in order to defend him.

    If what you say is correct derrydave was McGuinness, Martina Anderson and Mary Lou McDonald hypocrites in calling for Cardinal Brady to resign?

  • derrydave

    What a pathetic and idiotic statement from Dixie Elliott – far from the first one from that particular source. I’m hiding behind a username am I ? I’ve just had a quick scan up the page and think I can see only yourself and Mick who have their full names listed – that mean’s the rest of us all are hiding behind usernames then I presume ? Either you’re new to this internet lark or else you’re just an idiot, not sure which one ?

    I’ve given my view on this whole putrid spectacle, and really don’t want to continue commenting. Brady affair and this Adams case are very different from memory. I would have a certain amount of sympathy for Brady, but if his actions resulted in more children being abused then he would have to go. I do not believe anyone is claiming this in the Adams case, are they ?

  • GEF

    “Both Adams and Sinn Fein are now in serious trouble
    There is real disquiet in the party over the abuse scandal and the Seanad debacle, writes Daniel McConnell, Political Correspondent”

    http://www.nuzhound.com/goto.php?id=234766

  • Mick Fealty

    Dave

    “I can see only yourself and Mick who have their full names listed – that mean’s the rest of us all are hiding behind usernames then I presume?”

    Quite. I’ve always liked it when people post in their own names, but anonymity is helpful if it means people feel freer to say that they think (whatever the reason).

    Perhaps you can see why I have been so nippy in the past with the republicans on here when in full cry against unionists (often over the most trivial of matters). It’s the tyranny of the majority.

    It’s good to have your perspective Dave, and it’s high credit to you for not abandoning ship when seas are rough.

    You make a decent point when you say there is absolutely no evidence that Liam went on to harm other children. That may well be a key difference between the church and the party.

    I think the problem is the lack of transparency, which is clearly a legacy from the past. The difficulty for the party lies its demand that other people/institutions follow standards it cannot comply with itself.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Derrydave the thing is it’s not over by a long shot…

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/eilis-ohanlon-men-and-women-raped-by-ira-volunteers-are-not-going-away-gerry-29655467.html

    If yourself and other members of SF read poetry then perhaps you should read these lines from…

    A Leak in the dike by by: Phoebe Cary (1824-1871)

    A leak in the dike! The stoutest heart
    Grows faint that cry to hear,
    And the bravest man in all the land
    Turns white with mortal fear.
    For he knows the smallest leak may grow
    To a flood in a single night;
    And he knows the strength of the cruel sea
    When loosed in its angry might.

  • “You make a decent point when you say there is absolutely no evidence that Liam went on to harm other children. That may well be a key difference between the church and the party.”

    Was Liam Adams the only member of the Provisional Republican Movement to be accused of sex abuse? Was the leadership response to such accusations any better than that of the Church? Eilis O’Hanlon doesn’t think so:

    No one who bothers to delve beneath the surface of SF’s family friendly facade can be in any doubt that the republican movement has been covering up sexual crimes for decades. As with priests, rapists or child abusers who were members of the IRA were dealt with either by enforcing a code of silence on victims, or by shipping the perpetrator to other parts of the country or even out of Ireland entirely.

  • Dixie Elliott

    derrydave the fact that you used the sexual abuse of your former wife at the hands of her own father merely shows the depths supporters of Gerry Adams’ would trawl in his defense.

    You said….”In fact it is quite normal for the victim in cases such as this to strike out in all directions with many others beyond the culprit suffering and being attacked (believe me, I know this from personal exerience!). ”

    You are trying to make the claim that this is what has happened in Aine’s case, in fact you use one victim as a stick with which to beat another victim….

    However what has been pointed out numerous times is that the case against Gerry Adams comes mainly from his own mouth and his own actions in the past.

    It was from the witness box that we discovered that Gerry reported the personal hygiene, including nits, of Aine’s family to social services the day after the 1987 Buncrana meaning with Liam Adams….

    Also it was Gerry’s own admission that Liam Adams confessed to him in 2000.

    It couldn’t be denied that Gerry singled out Liam Adams for special mention on the foreword of his autobiography. This book he gave to Aine knowing what his brother did…

    Question…Did he really have to put this one brother on a pedestal above the rest of his family? Why do so knowing this brother was a child rapist/abuser?

    The fact that Liam moved about as a member of SF and getting assess to children on each move is proven beyond a doubt. Yet Gerry lied and was proven to have lied.

    So how was the above a case of Aine striking out in all directions?

  • Alias

    Good points, Dixie. I liked the way he portrayed Aine’s claims regarding Gerry Adams treatment of her as coming from someone who is in an emotional and irrational state of mind striking and “out in all directions” as though the sexual abuse had happened yesterday and it was still too early to give credence to everything she said. In reality, of course, she had over 30 years to reflect on what occurred – and over 20 years’ experience of getting the run-around from her uncle. She is cool, calm, and collected – far from the hysterical and irrational woman derrydave would like us to think of her as being.

  • Dixie Elliott

    This is type of person attacking O’Hanlon on twitter…

    A former Stickie and now lover of Gerry:

    “Eoin Ó Murchú @Eomurchu 12h
    Indo campaign against Adams sinks to new and ridiculous low. Are there no mainstream journalists to denounce this?”

    This is the same person who told the McConville family to stop sending him ‘obnoxious crap’ in relation to Adams.[…]

    […]His response has now been publicly criticized by Liam Kennedy, a professor of economics and social history at Queens University in Belfast.

    “I’ve just had forwarded to me an astonishing email from within RTE, in which Helen McConville’s latest press statement is described as ‘obnoxious crap,’” he is quoted as saying by the Sunday Independent.

    “This shows remarkable cruelty to someone who has suffered so much. Surely an RTE journalist should have a bit more sensitivity and human decency, irrespective of what he or she thinks about Helen McConville’s campaign.”

    Contacted by the Sunday Independent, O Murchu stood by the contents of his email and again criticized the McConvilles for their campaign against Adams.

    O Murchu told the paper: “I think the campaign is totally dishonest. Yes, Jean McConville was murdered in the most appalling circumstances.

    “Lots of terrible things happened during the struggle but to try and blame Gerry Adams and to interfere with our political process on the basis of that is I think, quite out of court.

    “That’s just a personal view. Adams should be judged on what he has to say on the economy, the political issues of the day and all these questions.”

    RTE is to launch a full investigation into O Murchu’s response to the McConville email.

    A statement from the station said: “It should be noted, for clarity, that Mr O Murchu is not working on RTE Raidio na Gaeltachta’s Election 2011 coverage as he is out on sick leave following a serious illness.”

    http://www.irishcentral.com/

  • @GEF,

    I read Daniel McConnel’s article as well. While he may be asked to step down as president at some point in the near future, I think that Adams will be allowed to continue to be TD for Co. Louth as long as the voters there are prepared to elect him. I just don’t expect the party to expend a lot of money or effort to ensure that Adams remains a TD. With McGuinness and Kelly in the North and McDonald in the South, the party doesn’t need Adams nearly as much as it did in the mid-1990s.

  • Zig70

    No matter what I think of those who would see people die for political notions, the storm is dying down. The battle for SF is how to justify what was done during the troubles to the people of Ireland in their name. Acting like the police might have seemed to be doing the right thing at the time but SF might come to appreciate why coppers are grumpy feckers.

  • Gopher

    Perhaps I’m wrong but the battle SF have, is to prove they are a political party and not a “movement” with all the baggage that carries. Unfortunately the latest events kinda make SF look even more regressive like some sort of wacky cult with a really wacky leader.

  • “The battle for SF is how to justify what was done during the troubles to the people of Ireland in their name.”

    Zig70, perhaps it was a mistake for Gerry to move from a UK setting to an Ireland one. London could always lean on the local media if the going got rough but that level of protection doesn’t appear to be on offer from the Dublin establishment.

  • Alias

    “Acting like the police might have seemed to be doing the right thing at the time but SF might come to appreciate why coppers are grumpy feckers.”

    Rusty Nail has a good article about Shinners “acting like the police” on Anthony McIntyre’s blog.

    The good thing about that policy as far as Liam Adams would be concerned is that if he confined his abuse to the children of other Shinners then he could be assured that it would be only be likely to be reported to the Shinners, in accordance with their stated policy of not reporting sexual abuse to the police, where it could be easily covered up by his brother.

  • derrydave

    Dixie,

    For whatever reason, you seem completely incapable of understanding reasoned arguement without extrapolating it into something it just isn’t. Your hatred of Gerry Adams obviously blinds you completely and renders you incapable of even the very basic ability to argue your point rationally. Or in laymans terms, it makes you act a bit of a prick really.

    Firstly you slate me for ‘hiding’ behind a username – depite the fact that 95%+ of all commenters on this websitre have a username rather than their full name (I use my first name and where I’m from – what more do you want exactly and why ?).

    Secondly, I referred to the fact that I have some experience of this type of situation, and explained the horrific damage it does to the victim, and the fact that it is a very very complex and difficult situation for all involved. You then claim that referring to this is somehow using my wifes situation and plummeting the depths in order to defend Gerry Adams ???!

    You really are a bit of an idiot and your own words are evidence of this – you’d be well advised to actually read what you intend to post before hitting the submit button. Or maybe get someone else to check the rationale for you – god knows, you need all the help you can get !

    Alias, if you read back on my mail it’s clear that I have not claimed that Aine is a hysterical and irrational woman, and that I have nothing but sympathy for her. None of us on here can really understand fully the dynamics of what has occurred over the years – even more reason that this is stuff that should be dealt with by the courts and the social services, not by contributors on the internet trying to make political capital off the back of it. I actually regret now even commenting myself – should just have left the mob to gleefully get stuck in. Will leave you all to using this whole sorry debacle to try to beat Gerry Adams over the head politically.

  • ArdoyneUnionist

    Gerry broke the shinners own rules when he did not report his brother’s Liam’s paedophilia and or sexual abuse, and Liam was still a member.
    Not one from the party has come out and demanded Adams be sanctioned. The cult of Adams is poisoning the credibility not only of Adams but what little the shinner movement.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Unsurprising that derrydave in the true tradition of Adamsism avoids answering relevant points by throwing out insults,…’idiot’ …’bit of a prick’ etc., plus the usual fob-off…’hatred of Adams, (anti-SF or anti-peace process, chip on the shoulder are others he has yet to use)…and lastly I am incapable of ‘understanding reasoned arguement’ etc.

    A politician’s rant you might say, which comes when that breed can’t answer questions.

    All that energy wasted in an attempt to cover the fact that derrydave couldn’t challenge one point I made above.

    Sinn Fein have a habit of hiding from the truth, about a month or so ago I did an interview with Radio Foyle in regards to Sinn Fein’s attempts to hijack the memory of the Ten Hunger Strikers for the so called peace process by having the peace center sited near the remaining H-Block / Hospital Wing.

    Radio Foyle invited SF to put a spokesperson forward to reply to my points….I waited by the phone…And waited.

    Not so much as a ‘He’s anti-Sinn Fein’ derrydave…

  • fordprefect

    derrydave,
    So you think Dixie Elliot is an idiot, a bit of a prick etc. Read the court transcripts of Gerry Adams’ evidence at his brothers trial and then come back and try to justify those comments. The only real pricks and idiots I can see are those people jumping to his defence! For many years I have been concerned about the sanity of people that vote for SF, when they could vote for a socialist alternative. In recent days we have seen Pat Sheehan and Pearse Doherty backing their leader, obviously told to, (it beggars belief!). I hope people remember that when it comes to election day, though I wouldn’t bet on it!

  • Alias

    The more interesting aspect of the court transcripts is that they show a dissembling Adams – not as being a pathological liar (which they also show) – but as being not very bright. Even prior to the court transcripts, he incriminated himself by stating that he had knowledge of a criminal offence for 9 years and that he failed to report it in violation of Section 5(1) of The Criminal Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1967. Adams, without his handlers and kitchen cabinet writing the script, is revealed as a bit of a muppet.

  • Dixie Elliott

    Is it any wonder he sent others out to do the lying in regards to the Hunger Strikes?