Lord Mayor Attack: A Tale of Two Parks

Following on from the sectarian attack on Belfast Mayor Mairtin O’Muilleoir at Woodvale Park yesterday,  Jude Collins correctly fixes the spotlight on the unionist political leaders who, instead of leading from the front, have preferred to indulge the sectarian assumptions and fantastical notions behind the increasingly paranoid and utterly bogus loyalist grievance narrative (the subject of this thread, and this one.)

Collins captures the contradiction between the response afforded leading DUP figures, Nelson McCausland and Gavin Robinson, in Dunville Park, pictured smiling with the Sinn Fein Mayor, only a matter of hours before the latter was assaulted by loyalists at the opening of the renovated Woodvale Park.

It is worth pointing out that, as Mayor, Robinson signed the letter condemning the Parades Commission and effectively supporting the decision to openly defy the Parades Commission determination by playing loyalist songs outside St Patrick’s Church following the infamous ‘Famine Song’ incident. And last month he was left peddling the loyalist line following the loyalist violence on the 12th July in East Belfast which saw both Short Strand residents and PSNI officers in the firing line of the assembled loyalists.

Yet no protestors gathered to assault Gavin.

Nelson McCausland is rarely out of the news these days due to the series of controversies surrounding his conduct and decisions as Minister (not to mention Orange Order member, regularly participating in contentious parades in north Belfast.)

Yet no protestors gathered to assault Nelson. Indeed, Nelson returned to the Falls Road again today for another meeting.

Back to Jude Collins:

“Why did McCausland and Robinson receive a civilized reception in Dunville Park? Because the republican leadership had persuaded the people there that peaceful means are the best to follow, that bridging the chasm between communities makes more sense than attacks on fellow-Irishmen and women. Why did Mairtin O Muilleoir receive a violent reception at Woodvale? Because the unionist leadership has seen fit to let its people remain mired in the past, has in fact encouraged them to see moves towards equality as an attack on their ‘culture’. The DUP’s reaction to the attack, where they blamed the victim, said it all.”

 

 

  • cynic2

    By putting culture in parentheses you just serve to show your contempt for it. You may not like it but that is not your choice or your decisions to make

  • Chris,
    Well done for giving Jude due credit on this one.
    You have pretty much nailed the central narrative of the day which is of course, the leadership deficit in Unionism, evidenced by the comments of the local DUP and the silence of those who should have spoken out and the juxtapositioning regarding Gavin and Nelson on the Falls. The fact that the Unionist political parties are allowing a “facebook” led narrative to dominate the agenda from a PUL perspective is damning.
    Is there nobody who will tell these people the truth?

  • Dec

    Cynic

    1) it’s apostrophes and 2) he’s quoting Jude Collins. Oh and 3) what on earth does ‘not…your decisions to make’ mean in this context?

  • MALCOLMX

    Unfortunately until unionism and loyalism understand there is not a cultural war or a so called chipping away by republicans and until they ditch the supremacist mentality then there will always be violent actions like that seen in woodvale. However the nationalist and republican community will move further forward, constantly pushing and making new ground while the knuckledraggers in the PUL community whine for those lost days of old when they were in charge.

    Fair play to Mairtin, I’ve no doubt he will be an excellent mayor and will break new ground for republicans. It’s disgusting what happened to him being assaulted by narrow minded sectarian bigots.

  • Mc Slaggart

    cynic2

    Is the statement by Jude that some “see moves towards equality as an attack on their ‘culture.’ not reasonable?

  • odd_number

    cynic2
    Taigs having contempt for a culture that regularly espouses ‘killing all taigs’ can”t come as a surprise, surely?

  • Tir Chonaill Gael

    Confident unionism.

  • kells

    Why is a financial package not given to these people to encourage them to emigrate. It would be money well spent!

  • MALCOLMX

    Kells,

    Don’t mention money and PUL community or they start with the ‘we didn’t get our share of the peace dividend, the Fenians got it all’

  • aquifer

    Loyalists had better behave themselves.

    Making Martin look more mayoral risks making Gerry more presidential.

  • Old Mortality

    ‘Because the republican leadership had persuaded the people there that peaceful means are the best to follow’

    After spending a considerable period of time persuading them to the contrary.

    Millar would have known he was likely to receive a hostile reception and was so advised but chose to press on and create a silly-season media event.
    It was no more than a scuffle. He was unharmed while the police are rarely inclined understate the extent of their own injuries.
    Nevertheless, the best form of protest would have been to boycott the event completely.

  • BluesJazz

    “Why is a financial package not given to these people to encourage them to emigrate. It would be money well spent!”

    Kells, are you a member of UKIP? Maybe send them to ‘bongo bongo land’?
    What was this header Martin O Miller playing at? [text removed – mods].
    Wind up the shia lumpenproles by having a sunni lumpenprole as lord of the manor.
    Like Ariel Sharon making a high profile visit to the ‘Temple Mount’ back in the day it was designed to provoke.

  • MALCOLMX

    Bluesjazz,

    Well jackie McDonald and various other uda and uvf members are on the falls and andersonstown road dealing with community issues nearly every week so your point doesn’t stand. Read Brian Romans piece on Eamonn mallies blog about a so called cultural war for some extra info on the issue

  • CoisteBodhar

    You may be mistaken in your measurements of the mayor BJ. I don’t think he is cut from the same cloth as Johnny Adair. Pretty far from it actually.

  • MALCOLMX
  • BluesJazz

    for similar:
    September 2000-

    “The Palestinians condemned Sharon’s visit to the Temple Mount as a provocation and an incursion, as were his armed bodyguards that arrived on the scene with him. Critics claim that Sharon knew that the visit could trigger violence, and that the purpose of his visit was political.”

    It’s August and nothing much is happening politically, so Mayor Miller stirs the pot and a few scuffles occurred: BFD

  • How about a UK citizenship test at 18? Those who fail, or those who leave school without qualifications, are sent to “bongobongoland” and refused UK citizenship or benefits.

  • iluvni

    Which hospital did he attend anyhow?
    Mustn’t have been much of a queue at A&E for a change, seeing he was back on duty a short time later,

  • MALCOLMX

    Bluesjazz,

    Why can you not call him by his proper name, Mairtin O Muilleoir?

    Is that what sectarianism does to ones mind, not allow them to even call someone by their name, seriously it’s embarrassing when the so called protestors when interviewed couldn’t even do it on tv, so sad!

  • Pathetic deflective comments lads.
    Try dealing with what actually happened perhaps?

  • BluesJazz

    Malcolm X
    Both sets of paramilitary terrorists (Loyalist/Republican) have colluded over many years in drug dealing and protection rackets, so : BFD.

  • MALCOLMX

    Bangordub,

    I suspect their deflective comments come from William Humphries book of ‘ how to respond to questions when your a bigot’.

  • MALCOLMX

    Blue jazz,

    Try staying on topic.

    Do you condemn the sectarian bigoted assault on the mayor?

  • Mick Fealty

    Can I just ask that people treat each other decently. If I have to clean a mess up in the morning, I will neither be pleased nor liberal in anything other than in lashing out the cards.

    #justsayinlike

  • BluesJazz

    “How about a UK citizenship test at 18? Those who fail, or those who leave school without qualifications, are sent to “bongobongoland” and refused UK citizenship or benefits.”
    Dave, yup, but that would include the DFM.
    Malcolm X, it was a scuffle by a few oul dolls, assault my arse. Yes I condemn the bigoted women involved.

  • Mick Fealty

    That’s once BJ!

  • MALCOLMX

    Bluesjazz,

    It was more than a few women and the various footage and photos show that clearly.

    1 mayor assaulted and 9 police officer injured, so who’s lying?

  • michael-mcivor

    BluesJazz-

    ” Would Johnny Adair be welcome on the Fall’s ”

    Adair is not even welcome in the Shankill-

  • BluesJazz,
    “it was a scuffle by a few oul dolls” Really?
    Do you think that is how it will be perceived?
    Have you any idea the damage being done to their own community?

  • BluesJazz

    Well I’m on a yellow so treading carefully….

    Yes Bangordub, it didn’t look all that serious. Mr Miller seen fit to have plenty of police protection, a la Mr Sharon, it was a wind up and he got a result.

    Obviously we can only hope that all those in intensive care make a speedy recovery.

  • BluesJazz,
    That’s a “no” then.
    You don’t actually get it.
    I have no words.

  • pauluk

    Republicans, as ever, are masters at PR and this was an opportunity for provocation not to be missed. That’s no excuse, of course, for the yahoos of Woodvale who responded.

  • Robbie

    Odd for Brian Rowan’s piece just put up on Eamonn Mallie’s website to be introduced on this subject. The ears rather close up these days at the best of times with Rowan, though it’s interesting the Belfast Telegraph refused to print it.

    I also like the idea that some are floating here that Sinn Fein and the Republican movement have stopped politicking. They’re entitled to war on opposing political cultures as long as it’s peaceful and democratic, which it is. But to deny they are intent on such a campaign is thunderously ignorant. It’s the old equivalent of their former methods: ‘We didn’t do it but we’re right to’.

    Truth is they’re as bad as the Unionists they’re riling up. Like them, they’re more interested in where a flag is rather than whether someone is in work. Cultural war is easier than socio-economic I suppose.

  • Billy Ghoti

    odd_number (profile)
    7 August 2013 at 10:42 pm

    cynic2
    Taigs having contempt for a culture that regularly espouses ‘killing all taigs’ can”t come as a surprise, surely?

    Much the same as PUL liking “Brits out” really

  • BluesJazz

    At least Belfast Media Group will benefit from a ‘good news’ story during the silly season. Whoever owns the Andersontown News will be rubbing their hands.

  • odd_number

    Brit’s out, how very 1980’s Billy.

  • SK

    Nail squarely on head as ever, Chris Donnelly.

    What’s more, the significant drop in calibre of unionist contribution to these threads demonstrates that it isn’t only nationalists who are finding this kind of carry on increasingly pathetic.

  • odd_number
    As I said earlier, deflect, deny, do nothing.
    Not a single attempt to address the issue except, perhaps, for Robbie.

  • mac tire

    Some of the comments by those who would (guardedly) support what happened show up the paucity in thinking within the Loyalist community.

    Comments which amount to “he knew it was gonna happen”, “the Sinn Féin spin machine” etc, etc are pathetic.

    These arguments amount to trying to justify what happened after the fact. If they are all so anti-Sinn Féin then why hand this type of increasingly erratic behaviour on a plate?

    Loyalism has shown itself up for what it truly is. Now, the question is: how many Unionists secretly agree/support this. If this is anti-Unionist then let it be known.

  • odd_number

    Of course Bangordub. Who knows, maybe Máirtín Ó Muilleoir knew exactly what he was doing, and the Sinners are playing Alex Ferguson mind games, but if they are, the Loyalists have been walking into many traps for a long time which underlines the point that the failure here is with political Unionism.
    I’ve long since gone past the stage of gloating that my political opponents are floundering through to genuine despair that this is still going on and even a great degree of sympathy for the poor pathetic fools who deem it ok to cause scenes like that in a park full of kids.
    Where do we go, how do we solve this? What will it take for Unionists to show some leadership and try to educate Loyalism as to the current dispensation? It really seems they will put a fleg and a march over prosperity, jobs and investment. In evolutionary terms, if you don’t adapt you die.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Republicans, as ever, are masters at PR and this was an opportunity for provocation not to be missed.

    Well, no.

    The attack has been “explained” by the DUP as a consequence of the flags issue.

    Which party raised the temperature over the adoption of a flag policy which had been adopted without trouble at unionist-controlled councils ? The DUP.

  • John Ó Néill

    I think identifying this as an absence of leadership in unionism is slightly wide of the mark. Political unionism isn’t attempting to lead, it is trying to exploit people and communities, such as those who turned out at Woodvale Park, or the flags protests etc, manufacture the sense of grievance and catalyse it into political support. This support isn’t converted into a platform to address socio-economic problems or educational disadvantage, but seemingly projects like RedSky and double-glazing (the sectarianism allegation over RedSky being a largely unstressed and revealing element of that story).
    So, decrying the absence of leadership here is being generous. Political unionism isn’t attempting to lead communities like those who were at Woodvale Park, it is taking a lead for a different constituency entirely and abusing those in Woodvale Park by deploying them as cannon fodder, as ever.

    In the end, even Edward Carson recognised this for what it was:
    I did not know, as I know now, that I was a mere puppet in a political game .. I was fighting with others whose friendship and comradeship I hope I will lose from tonight, because I do not value any friendship that is not founded upon confidence and trust. I was in earnest. What a fool I was! I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power …

  • ayeYerMa

    Despite the usual Donnellyesque attempt to distort reality, Robinson and McCausland have not been members of a terrorist organisation nor glorify such, and unlike Mayor Miller “Goebbels” the Loyalist terrorists mentioned were not voted into positions of power.

    The crunch of the matter is that patience in the wider Unionist community for the having their faces rubbed by those illegally glorifying Republican murder squads, falling short of commitments to recognise our sovereignty and attempting to rewrite history week-in-and-week-out has run out, and sending out the message that terrorist violence pays. This breach of law and agreements simply cannot continue. I don’t believe that this is some mere “dissident” opinion within Unionism but rather quite a mainstream view.

    It can only really be resolved in two ways:
    1. A large section of the Catholic community stop voting those who glorify terrorism into power.
    2. The UK government starts standing up for enforcing UK interests by enforcing UK law , stops turning a blind eye to the (already supposedly illegal) glorification of proscribed terror organisations for an out-of-date view of political expediency, and starts enforcing normal moral order once more.

    Since there seems to be quite an addiction and no moral qualm within a large section of the Catholic community for standing in support of their mass murder organisations then I believe point #2 is realistic.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Agreed John. First time I’ve heard that Carson quote. He called it pretty much right.

  • Comrade Stalin

    ayeYerMa, it’s a sign of how things are that you don’t even have the manners to address the man by his preferred name.

    I’m wondering what “enforcing normal moral order” would look like ? That sounds like something that Franco would have said. Still, neither #1 or #2 is going to happen so what about

    3. Acknowledge that unionists killed a lot of people during the troubles too, start respecting the mandate of the representatives that people vote for and stop justifying mob rule and random violence against certain elected representatives

    ?

  • Alias

    “Taigs having contempt for a culture that regularly espouses ‘killing all taigs’ can”t come as a surprise, surely?”

    It does, however, tend to undermine this paragragh:

    “…Jude Collins correctly fixes the spotlight on the unionist political leaders who, instead of leading from the front, have preferred to indulge the sectarian assumptions and fantastical notions behind the increasingly paranoid and utterly bogus loyalist grievance narrative…”

    Not that the ‘republicans’ are doing anything other than implementing the British state’s agenda of replacing Orange with Britishness, thereby granting the ‘parity of esteem’ to the British state rather than to “fellow Irishmen”.

    Alas for the Orange, the British state is in the process of ‘doing a cuckoo’ in its nest as its means of consolidating British national interests and sovereignty on the island of Ireland. The Shinners, as ever, merely do as they’re told.

  • Kevsterino

    It is the restraint of the police that stands out to me. The aggravation they put up with is astounding.

    If I were a Belfast cop, I don’t think I would deal with a crowd like that without dogs.

  • ayeYerMa

    Comrade Stalin, people being far too polite towards terrorists and those who glorify them is exactly the problem that has created the moral quagmire that we now face on a weekly basis. The time for expedient politeness and whitewashing the past out of appeasement cannot continue or work any more — we have to move on from 15 years ago — our society cannot operate with a contradictory moral code which states that present glorification of Provo terrorism is fine but that of so-called “dissidents” is not.History cannot be written talking of the glory of the Provo “struggle”.

    “enforcing normal moral order” would look like actually enforcing the law as it is now, instead of pretending that it can’t possibly apply to Sinn Fein. Glorification of proscribed terrorist groups from ALL sides, Republican and Loyalist, must be clamped down on and enforced with sentencing in court. The reason Republicans in particular need to be singled out is because the entire “process” and system has been built around their appeasement (it is not some mere “mandate” — that was already accepted by the DUP, but their terror was used as a bargaining chip to make that possible and continues to be exploited to this day) and their present unrepentant gloating of their terror and acting like they are untouchable (well not only acting, given the many actual double standards throughout the last decade and cumulating in recent police operations and refusal of secretary of state to do anything about e.g. Castlederg ) really is taking the mick. Then of course, only Republicans are placed in a position of power to be able to place their murder glorification in our faces day in and out.

    On a separate point, Sinn Fein here really acting like a bunch of hypocrites given that they have put much effort into manufacturing of no-go zones but then have the gall to complain when that is reciprocated. The only way to create true shared spaces is to enforce the law against the glorification of any proscribed (past or present) terrorist grouping.

  • Mc Slaggart

    ayeYerMa

    “Sinn Fein here really acting like a bunch of hypocrites given that they have put much effort into manufacturing of no-go zones”

    Keep digging.

    If you think sf are behind all the “no-go zones” would you agree we the people should get a UK government referendum on the issue of parading in our local towns and villages?

  • Mc Slaggart

    ayeYerMa

    “The UK government starts standing up for enforcing UK interests by enforcing UK law”

    I agree! Bring back internment! That will soon sort out those nasty loyalists. “They don’t like it up ’em!” you know.

  • runepig

    AyeYerMa

    Despite the usual Donnellyesque attempt to distort reality, Robinson and McCausland have not been members of a terrorist organisation nor glorify such

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Resistance

  • Jack2

    Only in Belfast would it be permitted to besiege the Mayor and then blame him for trying to open a park.

    Imagine New York City – Mayor Bloomberg, trapped in a building besieged by social security claimants. NYPD would be cracking skulls, right-wing (which the DUP is) media would be in meltdown over these work shy spongers.

    —Bluejazz
    “Like Ariel Sharon making a high profile visit to the ‘Temple Mount’ back in the day it was designed to provoke.”

    Woodvale park is not Temple Mount.
    Remember the PUL fly Israeli flags to show their support of Israel and its repression of a minority group.

  • FDM

    ayeYerMa 8 August 2013 at 2:03 am

    “the Loyalist terrorists mentioned were not voted into positions of power.”

    Time without number we see unionist politicians hand in glove with loyalist terrorism. Want to see the pictures?

    “patience in the wider Unionist community…has run out”
    “The time for expedient politeness…cannot continue…any more”

    You do not need to threaten us with violence we can see the violence has already started. A bit stupid to threaten a man you are beating with a beating when you are beating him.

    “It can only really be resolved .. [when, sic] Catholic community stop voting [for those people they want to vote for]”
    “Republicans are placed in a position of power”

    Democracy doesn’t work. We need to return to wizard in the sky anointed empresses…
    Republicans believe in a government of the people, for the people, by the people. If you don’t like democracy or the republican governance concept then there is no hope for you. It is the only game in town for the foreseeable.

    “starts enforcing normal moral order once more.”

    Please, please, please can we return to 1922 where the croppies knew their place. I agree with CS, this comment wouldn’t be out of place in a speech given in a beer hall in Munich in the same year.

    “Realistic”.

    I find it hard to believe, given what you write, that you actually know what that word means.

  • runepig

    Woodvale park is not Temple Mount.
    Remember the PUL fly Israeli flags to show their support of Israel and its repression of a minority group.

    I didn’t think their motives were quite so sinister to be fair – I just assumed the Israeli flags were there to antagonise people in nationalist areas who flew Palestinian flags in solidarity. Because, you know, that’s a perfectly acceptable use of a national fleg so it is.

  • Droch_Bhuachaill

    I see two things happening as a result of this. Either Ó Muilleoir will be frightened from doing any further such duties in certain areas of Belfast, which I doubt after reading his apparent commitment to normalisation quoted here on another thread. More likely, he will continue carrying out his official duties, and hopefully these scenes will become the exception rather than the norm. Looking at the footage, I doubt if most of the attackers would have the physical capacity or energy to carry out such strenuous activity on a regular basis…

  • Mick Fealty

    Without exaggerating too much or even directly comparing circumstances, on the ground realities, does anyone else feel theyve heard this conversation before, like back in the 90s?

  • FDM

    @Mick

    “does anyone else feel theyve heard this conversation before”

    Whose rhetoric is the same? If you compared the the actions and words of the two camps, who has moved?

  • Mc Slaggart

    “Without exaggerating too much or even directly comparing circumstances, on the ground realities, does anyone else feel theyve heard this conversation before, like back in the 90s?”

    Mick

    This is very different. One could glibly quote Marx 1 but it does not apply as the RUC 2 are gone.

    SF/sdlp stood by the PSNI during the flag protests even though they got a lot of flack from their voters for doing so (even some Unionists voters in Tyrone).

    The PSNI reputation will be made or broken after this current bunch of “on the ground realities” is over.

    1
    History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.
    Karl Marx
    Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/history_repeats_itself.html#ItxRsdqsqmGx8hq3.99

    2
    In December 1997, London’s The Independent newspaper published a leaked internal RUC document which reported that a third of all Catholic RUC officers had suffered religious discrimination and/or harassment from Protestant fellow officers.

    Wikipedia

  • MonkDeWallyDeHonk

    AyeYerMa

    Do me a favour. The links between Unionist politicians and so called “Loyalist” terrorists have been well documented. Basically what your post boils down to is a wish to go back to what you would regard as “the good old days” i.e the B Specials, gerrymandering and when the “taigs” knew their place.

    Well, I’m delighted to tell you that those days are long gone and they are never coming back.

    It really amuses me that people like you look at the Census figures and come out with the Catholic Unionist “Unicorn” crap (as if you have ANY insight into the Catholic community).

    There are good intelligent Unionist folk who post on here and realise that they need to court the Catholic vote to preserve the Union and espouse sensible views.

    People like you and the OO are a gift to Irish Republicanism You fantasise about being as British as Finchley and that there is massive support for the likes of you and your ilk on the “mainland”. Simply laughable – by all means keep dreaming.

    The so called “leadership” of political Unionism ( and you) are a classic example of Einsteins theory of insanity – keep repeating the same actions and expect a different result. The only way you will preserve the Union in the medium/long term is to keep Catholics ( or a fair percentage on board) – in the current financial climate that’s not so hard but it will not last forever.

    As long as you and the OO (and the likes of McCausland, Campbell etc) keep on espousing your laughable views and repeating the the moronic behaviour, the more the minuscule support for the Union beyond NI will diminish and the more you will drive the Catholic vote away.

    Keep up the good work!

  • runepig

    Some good points there. I don’t think the union will be ended by an Irish border poll – it will be ended by Scotland dissolving it in 2014, and the Tory/UKIP support in England offloading a drain on its reduced tax income. I’d agree that NI unionists massively overestimate support in the rest of the UK – all the Better Together blustering is an attempt to secure a full trough for Westminster snouts – not to support the OO swanning around Catholic areas of Belfadt. With the exception of an Orange rump in the West of Scotland and maybe a few ageing Thatcherites, mainland Britain cringes at NI Loyalism. Do you think BoJo being beaten up in Finchley would be accepted by any English politicians?

  • Greenflag

    @ Kevsterino ,

    ‘It is the restraint of the police that stands out to me. The aggravation they put up with is astounding.’

    Of course -Put it down to 40 plus years of experience .Of course there was a time when the B Specials and some UDR /RUC would have actively assisted the loyalist mob in it’s attempt to physically assault or kill ‘O’Muilleoir for just being a civilian Taig .Let’s not forget that .

    We forget that ‘unionism’ and it’s offshoot ‘loyalism ‘ have always relied on the three pillars of Britishness , Orangeism/Protestantism , and Supremacy to maintain political and economic control of Northern Ireland .

    And while even the people of Woodvale have a right to their ‘British identity , and their Protestantism , the ‘supremacy ‘ bit is no longer an option or acceptable not if they are to have a future on this island .

    In the space of a couple of weeks we have had the Ruth Patterson mouth off and now an assault on the Lord Mayor. .What could possibly come next to benefit the onward march of SF in NI and indeed in the Republic . For these ‘events ‘ no longer go unnoticed and are videoed and kept for future political campaigns .

    Someone above made a tongue in cheek suggestion that these people should be encouraged to go to Bongo Bongo land a location recently mentioned by a UKIP politician .

    The sad fact is that these folks are already in a Bongo Bongo land of their own in Belfast located between eardrum and eardrum in the mindset of a people who still have to catch up on the 20th century ;(

    Shame on those Belfast region unionist politicians who have closed their ears and congrats to the PSNI who probably prevented the Lord Mayor from being killed which would of course have set off another round or decade of sectarian killings in NI.

    Its a sad fact and one which you hear in Ireland , England and around the world that when others see these loyalists in viral mode or some Orangemen provocatively marching in circles beating drums outside an RC Church -you will hear comments such as ‘I never understood why the Provisonal IRA came into existence or lasted so long and ended up via Sinn Fein in the governance of Northern Ireland ‘

    Indeed -karma happens .And the loyalist dogma ran away with it’s karma a century ago and it isn’t coming back .

  • Greenflag

    @ Mick ,

    ‘does anyone else feel theyve heard this conversation before, like back in the 90s?’

    I did’nt hear it in the 1890’s but I’sure the ancestral voices were there -It was there in the 1990’s and it will most likely be there in the 2090’s .I would hazard a guess that there will always be scope and opportunity for that kind of ‘conversation ‘ for as long as the Northern Ireland state continues in existence and will probably rumble on for a few decades after it goes out of existence .

    It’s the way of the world ( the Northern Ireland world that is ).

    Wish it would end of course and be replaced by something much more constructive and productive but then I’ve never believed in miracles even if they (inexplicable as yet events ) sometimes happen .

  • Barnshee

    Its normally considered polite not to go where you are not wanted —-OO, SF etc take note

  • Greenflag

    ‘Its normally considered polite not to go where you are not wanted ‘

    This is true . Alas the OO never bothered about ‘politeness’ until they were forced to by the British Government . The OO is a private religious institution whereas SF is a democratically elected constitutional political party which represents all the people even those who don’t vote for them .

    Comparing apples to oranges is not what the phsical assault on the Lord Mayor is about .

    It’s just the usual intimidation , sectarian bigotry and visceral anti all things Irish hatred that keeps these loyalist loons making idiots of themselves and by default and inference the wider unionist community .

    These idiots are the best political propaganda that SF could ever wish for and once more it provides further credence to Am Ghobsmachts list of 10 🙁

  • BluesJazz

    I ‘m trying to find a slugger thread on the sectarian assault on Nigel Farage outside a Scottish pub, which made the national news, unlike this damp squib incident.

    Greenflag, this stuff doesn’t even register on the mainland media radar anymore. Care to guess what David Cameron thought (or rather didn’t) about it?

  • Kevsterino

    @Greenflag, I think if they made an event of ‘Controlling Gobshite Crowds’ at the Police games, PSNI would walk away with first prize.

  • Barnshee

    ” The OO is a private religious institution whereas SF is a democratically elected constitutional political party which represents all the people even those who don’t vote for them .”

    Irrelevant — repeats

    Its normally considered polite not to go where you are not wanted —-OO, SF etc take note.

    I hardly think SF “represenst” the prods. Either Millar is pig stupid or was looking for the photo opportunity— take yer pick.

    (If they feel strongly about it ye olde boycott should suffice)

  • RepublicanStones

    Those advocating that the Lord Mayor should have stayed away, do you really think that’s a healthy precedent to be advocating?

    Its the fact that we’re not just talking about a Shinner here, that’s actually secondary to real issue which is that the first citizen of this city, the guy who will represent us internationally for the next year, was met with violence by an unwelcoming mob.

    Where is the leadership within unionism/loyalism? What kind of leadership is it to pen a letter advising the city’s first citizen to stay out of an area of his own city because he’s not welcome? Surely real leadership would have attempted to ensure the Mayor wasn’t met with violence.

  • BluesJazz (profile)
    Picking up where we left off,
    “this stuff doesn’t even register on the mainland media radar anymore”
    Has it dawned on you why yet?

  • Clanky

    The politics of fear once again.

    The DUP wants the unionist population to believe that they are under attack and that only the DUP can save them from a headlong rush into a united Ireland and compulsary baptism into the catholic church.

    As it is and was and ever shall be, until the unionist population wake up to the fact that the DUP et al are playing them for fools.

    Keep them scared of the taigs and keep them voting DUP and if any of them start thinking about a shared future then give them some scaremongering about the Alliance Party and the fleg.

    NI politicians (and not just on the unionist side) need to man up and start offering true leadership rather than pandering to the neanderthals in order to cling to whatever bit of power they can.

  • BluesJazz

    Bangordub

    NI is a tiny percentage of the UK population, and that percentage is getting smaller. The UK has huge challenges ahead involving debt and immigration/multiculturalism. I doubt the parades/flag issues even come up at all in London which is now an ‘English’ city in name only.
    NI, like Gibraltar and the Falklands, are miniscule problems that don’t compare with the social and economic wind of change blowing through England.

    That’s why Nigel Farage is important and Martin O Miller (cue google translate for gaelic) is not in the slightest.

    The RoI could never afford us, and, as on another thread, our youngest and brightest are leaving.
    We’re totally reliant on the Westminster government.

    And everyone knows this. Why not just admit we’re spongers. And that includes the entire population here.

  • BluesJazz

    “the guy who will represent us internationally for the next year,”

    Actually RS that’s the job of William Hague. Though I’m sure he delegates to Ms Villiers as appropriate.

  • goalsboyce

    Its normally considered polite not to go where you are not wanted —-OO, SF etc take note.>>>>>

    Sinn Fein SDLP voters beware!

    You’re no longer welcome in areas which vote unionist!

    You have just been issued with an exclusion order!

    GTF out of our parks, leisure centres, shops and don’t even think about driving on our roads!

    Do not provoke us or else!

    You have been warned!

    PS The famines over why don’t you go home?

  • Greenflag

    ‘I hardly think SF “represenst” the prods. ‘

    The Lord Mayor represents the City of Belfast (including the Prods ) . Queenie represents all of the people of the UK (including NI ) and although they might not be too keen on the fact that includes anti monarchical republicans .

    The ‘intelligent ‘ course of action for the Woodvale knuckle draggers to do would have been to boycott the ceremony . But I guess that would be expecting a level of political sophistication unheard of among that community 🙁

  • Kevsterino

    I was thinking that too, Greenflag. Or a silent protest. They could have kept their dignity.

  • Barnshee

    The ‘intelligent ‘ course of action for the Woodvale knuckle draggers to do would have been to boycott the ceremony

    Indeed– the picture of Marty (II) standing pulling his chain alone in the rain would speak volumes

  • runepig

    BluesJazz

    I ‘m trying to find a slugger thread on the sectarian assault on Nigel Farage outside a Scottish pub, which made the national news, unlike this damp squib incident.

    In what way was an impromptu protest against a neo-liberal ultra-capitalist xenophobic right-wing politician launching an election campaign 120 miles away from the constituency by students and socialists a ‘sectarian assault’?

    And how is a physical attack on a man because of his religion anything otherwise? Nevermind the mayor of the biggest city in NI being attacked by anyone being a ‘damp squib’.

    *facepalm*

  • BluesJazz,
    To be honest I’m sick of the whole nobody can afford us stuff.
    Are you proud of that? Do you know why it is the case?

  • BluesJazz

    Bangordub
    Look up Harold Wilson’s ‘spongers’ speech about us in 1974.
    That’s what we are.

    Captain O’Neill and Brian Faulkner tried to move us away from junkiedom, but Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness had other ideas. Both are responsible, in slightly separate ways for our present Cargo Cult ‘economy’.

    And I’m not proud of it, but boy do our present politicians lick it up like cats and cream. A wee pretendy ‘government’ (think Trumpton) reliant on the handout. Which has significantly increased over the last decade. I would like George Osborne to cut it by 50% this coming year, and shut it off completely by 2015. Let’s see how things work out. Agreed?

  • BluesJazz

    Bangordub:
    “The people on this side of the water – British parents – have seen their sons vilified and spat upon and murdered. British taxpayers have seen the taxes they have poured out, almost without regard to cost – over £300 million a year this year with the cost of the Army operation on top of that – going into Northern Ireland. They see property destroyed by evil violence and are asked to pick up the bill for rebuilding it. Yet people who benefit from all this now viciously defy Westminster, purporting to act as though they were an elected government; people who spend their lives sponging on Westminster and British democracy and then systematically assault democratic methods. Who do these people think they are?”

    £300 million in 1974, now over £8billion per annum.
    Not including the army peacekeeper operation.
    Maybe a bit of respect to the hand that feeds us? And to the army that held the line?

  • I see that the new DUP Finance Minister has said that the Mayor should be able to go anywhere in the City without being troubled (paraphrasing). That’s good.
    But when did Sammy Wilson get dumped from the executive, and why? I thought that he was considered the most able Minister on the DUP team.

  • FDM

    Mister_Joe 9 August 2013 at 8:39 am

    “But when did Sammy Wilson get dumped from the executive, and why?”
    ————————————

    Is he going to open a chain of Emperor’s New Clothes shops?

    Cue music from Little House on the Prairie and pictures of people skipping through a field of long grass…

  • Comrade Stalin

    Mick, we have indeed heard it before, many times over. Unionists do not vote for paramilitaries, therefore the conflict consisted of only one side. (who exactly do the UVF and UDA vote for ?)

    Kevsterino, Sammy is the most able DUP politician by a long shot and arguably one of NI’s most able executive ministers. His rotation out of the Finance post appears to be part of a DUP objective to get younger MLAs involved in the executive; there is also a double jobbing angle (Sammy is, by a landslide, both an MP and MLA in East Antrim).

    My suspicion is that Sammy isn’t too happy about this arrangement and would much prefer to have continued as Finance Minister to the end of the term. But, in public at least, he is showing loyalty to Robinson.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sorry – last comment was directed to Joe, not Kevsterino. You Americans all look the same anyway 🙂

  • FDM

    Comrade Stalin 9 August 2013 at 9:36 am

    “Sammy is the most able DUP politician by a long shot”

    ————————————-

    That really is a massive indictment of the quality of the unionist starting 11.

    If Sammy is the “talent” the cupboard is bare.

    In Sammy’s own words in relation to men who starved themselves to death for what they believed in.

    “The babies were in cages, wrapped in blankets. They wouldn’t eat their dinner either – and you want to see what they did with the nappies.

    Can you imagine, Ah wee Seamus’ dad would’ve been proud of him, 15 months, he’s mastered a dirty protest already.”

    How clever are you Sammy? This is the talent?

    If I were given the opportunity to debate with any frontline unionist politician it would take me a matter of minutes to absolutely destroy them.

    Their arguments hold less water than the cupped hands of a child.

  • RepublicanStones

    BluesJazz thanks for that, I had no idea it was the job of British Foreign Minister to represent just Belfast. Why isn’t he called “Minister for Belfast’ then?

    BTW, I’m asking this rhetorically as I don’t really want to take a second shower this morning, cheers.

  • runepig

    Isn’t Sammy Wilson the minister who banned ads enouraging energy conservation because he’s a creationist and therefore doesn’t believe in climate change, or any of that blasphemous science claptrap? Says a lot about the DUP when the likes of Sammy is a star player.

  • tacapall

    Martin O millionaire like the injured nine officers will be laughing all the way to the bank, every drop of financial blood counts when it comes to making this part of Ireland as financially draining as possible on the British government, all thanks to the loyalist knuckle dragger parasites who have since this state was formed regarded the British taxpayer as their sugar daddy. They are a godsend to republicans, just like the Baltic exchange, Canary Wharf bombings brought the British establishment to the negotiating table with the IRA. Loyalism and unionism through its own actions and very financially draining culture, will eventually force the British government to re-negotiate its relationship with the Irish people over their heads, there’s no such thing as an unlimited purse. Keep up the good work lads and make sure you keep costing the British as much money as possible to keep its presence in Ireland

  • Kevsterino

    Comrade, unless I’m mistake (perish the thought), our Joe is Canadian, not American, unless you’re saying American as in North American. I’m trying to picture what an American looks like because even in the mysterious interior, we’ve got all kinds of people around here. ;o)

  • Barnshee

    “Martin O millionaire like the injured nine officers will be laughing all the way to the bank, every drop of financial blood counts when it comes to making this part of Ireland as financially draining as possible on the British government,”

    The Brits have already caught them on -Marty Sammy and Peter went to London for more money were politely told to fuck off. The budget is set –money wasted on parades and protests will reduce the balance available for Health Education etc.
    The budget is set to reduce year on year until revenue and costs balance –the brain dead in Stormont are in charge of the money “things can only get better” LOL

  • PeterBrown

    The Lord Mayor had the right to be there to open a council funded facility and should not have been assaulted but if he claims to represent everyone will he be at the Cenotaph this year?

  • tacapall

    Peter why would he have to be at the cenotaph to represent everyone ? Lots of Irishmen died at the somme and in WW2 the majority of them were not Orangemen or protestant, where is the law or unwritten agreement that says he has to respect those Irishmen by attending a exclusively British, Unionist, Loyalist hijacking of the memories of those brave men, especially when the world now knows how treacherous and devious the loyal sons of ulster really where and are to their King or Queen and country.

    Barnshee yes I can just see all the money being wasted on policing costs and clean up costs of 3500 plus orange parades, clean up costs of loyalist bonfires, injuries to police and property due to unionist loyalist violence, court costs bringing unionist controlled councils into line with equality commission rulings etc etc etc and you honestly believe, hospitals, social security, housing associations, policing will all do without so as that status quo can stay the same. Delusion is the child of ignorance my friend and many strokes overthrow the tallest oaks. If your honest you will see that the same type of people that financed the plantation of Ulster and who conspired and financed thon foreign army you supposedly supported to overthrow your king and country at the Battle of the Boyne are the same people who will ultimately close that not unlimited purse on the ungrateful fingers of unionism/loyalism.

  • Greenflag

    For those who don’t know the difference

    A Canadian is an unarmed American with health insurance and a financial sector not dominated by gambling casinos and who carries in his wallet banknotes adorned with pictures of Queenie .

    Great people the Canadians apart from that Queenie bit 😉

  • Kevsterino

    Yeah, Green, the Canadians aren’t as bad as they say, ;o)

    I have a brother in Edmonton who has lived there 50 years and it hasn’t turned him into a Communist yet. He still says ‘about’ and not ‘aboot’. I have a couple of his guns in my cabinet.

    Canada is wonderful in the summer, lousy in winter (I don’t ski). Fishing is great. Women are rowdy.

  • PeterBrown

    tacapall

    Because he has to represent everyone – the Remembrance Day Service remembers all those people you referred to not just Orangemen (nice attempt to sidestep this one on his behalf though) – if Gavin can go to FaP then he can go to the cenotaph (or can he – we will see)

  • tacapall

    Peter I would not support any commemorating or glorifying of anyone who would take a human life because of a dispute over trade routes and access to resources like oil and such, the real reasons for almost all wars. When I see the Grand Master laying a wreath on that same cenotaph on behalf of all the solders of Ireland who died in past battles like the those brave Irishmen during the 1916 rising, who the Queen of England, yer woman you swear loyalty to, honored then I will see your honest.

  • PeterBrown

    If he doesn’t he’s a hypocrite just like those who refuse to condemn those who assaulted him – he can’t be their mayor only part of the time and when it suits him, and the same was true for other mayors from all sides. if you won’t do the job then don’t take it (like being an MP ;-p)

  • Barnshee

    “Barnshee yes I can just see all the money being wasted on policing costs and clean up costs of 3500 plus orange parades, clean up costs of loyalist bonfires, injuries to police and property due to unionist loyalist violence, court costs bringing unionist controlled councils into line with equality commission rulings etc etc etc and you honestly believe, hospitals, social security, housing associations, policing will all do without so as that status quo can stay the same.”

    Once again I make the mistake of assuming that people know what they are talking about

    Note

    1 The money from London is a fixed amount
    2 Marty Peter and co tried to get more and were refused.
    3 The more that is wasted on the lunacy of parading/protesting the less their is for other activities.

    Its called simple arithmetc