#RuthPatterson: “Forgive me for restating what I’ve said so many times before…”

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When all around are losing the head, the one and only Ian Knox in today’s Irish News…

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  • streetlegal

    It is to be hoped that they will throw the book at he – a five year stretch at Her Majesty’s pleasure?

  • I believe the maximum in N.I. and Scotland for a summary conviction under the anti-terror legislation is 6 months. So if they just haul her before a magistrate in the morning, that would be it.

  • Kevsterino

    Joe, pardon my ignorance, but how long do the coppers have before they bring her up before a judge?

  • wild turkey

    well, well, well

    in response to this ‘unfortunate’ incident, the DUPers will probably get their banjos out. this is standard procedure. let us call it cross community dialogue.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myhnAZFR1po&feature=related

    but with respect to the depiction of Ruth by Mr Knox, her hair is perfect

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x19ajb_warren-zevon-werewolves-of-london_music

  • Kev,

    From the UK government site:

    2. How long you can be held in custody

    The police can hold you for up to 24 hours before they have to charge you with a crime or release you.

    They can apply to hold you for up to 36 or 96 hours if you’re suspected of a serious crime, eg murder.

    If you’re arrested under the Terrorism Act, you can be held without charge for up to 14 days.

    There was a big debate in the UK a while back about the Terrorism Act. The Government wanted to be able to hold people without charge under it for up to 90 days. It was defeated, in the House of Lords, I think.

  • Zig70

    How could she be so stupid. My kids are better drilled in the consequences of online posts.

  • Master McGrath

    Talk about snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory – this woman has major talents demonstrated here for the DUP but where could they really use them to move things forward in any real sense.
    A real time shift to the old unrestrained ‘Protestant Telegraph’ days and politically if this woman had another brain cell she could talk to fish.
    Sectarianism, it hasn’t gone away you know………………..

  • Zig70

    At the heart of this is the fact that people are willing to elect really useless stupid politicians while Northern Ireland struggles. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23534877 What would it take for people to elect politicians on their ability to make logical decisions. How much of a caricature do we have to be? Maybe LAD have shown the way as to what level you have to take the piss before people smell it.

  • Comrade Stalin

    It would really shock me if they charged her. I think this is just the police being seen to be taking the thing seriously

  • Alias

    Exactly.

    It would also highlight a disposition toward political policing if the PSNI enforced Part 1(2) of Chapter 11 of the Terrorism Act 2006 in the case of a Loyalist sympathiser but failed to enforce Part 1(3) in the case of Provo sympathisers.

    “(3) For the purposes of this section, the statements that are likely to be understood by members of the public as indirectly encouraging the commission or preparation of acts of terrorism or Convention offences include every statement which — (a) glorifies the commission or preparation (whether in the past, in the future or generally) of such acts or offences; and (b) is a statement from which those members of the public could reasonably be expected to infer that what is being glorified is being glorified as conduct that should be emulated by them in existing circumstances.”

    The proposed Shinner parade glorifying sectarian murderers is a clear violation of Part 1(3).

    So while the police may be foolish enough to arrest her while failing to arrest the Shinners for the same offence it is unlikely that the prosecution service would be as foolhardy.

  • FDM

    They have charged Our Wee Ruth.

    Desgrasse.

  • Zig70

    Right, fun over. The courts is not the place to try stupidity.

  • märsta

    Hi again Alias

    This is the third and last time I ask: Please post up links to peaceful loyalist “fleg” protestors being set upon by Police Attack Dogs.

  • It is not so much stupidity as a long term pattern of viciousness. Ask Ruth’s neighbour Clare Bailey about how Ruth bad mouths young people in her area.

  • FDM

    I think revealing that you have deeply held sectarian beliefs is certainly stupid.

    However if a Nazi revealed to me that he/she held National Socialist beliefs I wouldn’t be criticising him for being stupid.

    I would be disgusted at his condoning of genocide, mass rape, theft etc… in the name of Nazism.

    So its OK for Ruth and the rest in the DUP and their support to be bigoted cretins as long as they don’t tell anyone about it?

  • Yes, FDM. According to DC, it’s ok to lie and perjure yourself about it.

  • BluesJazz

    “However if a Nazi revealed to me that he/she held National Socialist beliefs I wouldn’t be criticising him for being stupid.”

    FDM., if a ‘Nazi’ revealed to you that they held Liberal Democrat beliefs would you criticize them for being stupid?

    Just wondering like…

  • Tir Chonaill Gael

    In 2004, Patterson asked loyalist paramilitaries for an explanation after they intimidated a Protestant women from her women given that she was “not an ethnic minority community or a Catholic”.

  • Jack2

    Tir Chonaill Gael (profile)
    3 August 2013 at 1:23 am

    In 2004, Patterson asked loyalist paramilitaries for an explanation after they intimidated a Protestant women from her women given that she was “not an ethnic minority community or a Catholic”.

    : Ouch.

    Is that a real quote?

  • Boglover

    Got to know Ruth Patterson a bit in 2004 when she was High Sheriff of Belfast (seems strange now!) and her views have certainly become more extreme and strident. Makes me wonder about the point made in another thread about her mental health.

    Of course “All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer” (Robert Owen), but the question of her mental state might be a way out of the mess for the DUP. Just sayin’….

  • Comrade Stalin

    Boglover,

    Not really. Back when Ruth was High Sheriff, she was hosting a do and declined to invite Sinn Féin but happily invited PUP and UDP/Independent loyalists, claiming she was unaware of their connections to paramilitarism.

  • Mc Slaggart

    Alias

    “The proposed Shinner parade glorifying sectarian murderers is a clear violation of Part 1(3).”

    From a Republican perspective they want to “honour their dead”1. Unionism of all shades inability to deal with this issue with any sense of decorum is quite shocking.

    1
    Mr McGuinness acknowledged the plan had become “an issue” and that sensitivity was needed.

    “I think the decision made by republicans in Co Tyrone to effectively divert the parade away from the cenotaph and those areas that might be considered to be contentious is a sensible decision,” he said.

    “The big difficulty about all of this, this isn’t something that just applies to republicans and how we deal with the past, it applies to nearly all of us within society and raises up for public debate the issues of how we deal with the past and whether or not people have a right to commemorate those people who have lost their lives.

    “Of course right across society in the course of recent years we have seen people on all sides of the debate, albeit from a different perspective and different narrative, honour their dead. And that’s what it comes down to I think. We all need to be very conscious that people do have the right to commemorate but it’s very important that people commemorate in a way that’s not offensive to others.”

    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/first-minister-condemns-castlederg-parade-plan-1-5339345

  • Comrade Sttalin[7.44] Must have been a bit of a downer for ruth that only about thirty stood outside the police station where she’s been held. With every hour that passes since this story broke, Robinson’s total failure opf leadership is glaringly exposed. Can he seriously take the DUP into an election with the Maze row unsettled? I think Stormont might struggle to get to 20216 at this rate of attrition on DUP fortunes since december last.

  • 2016 obviously. Fat fingers.

  • michael-mcivor

    Robinson reign will end soon enough-but whos next for Sinn Fein to chop- headbutter Dodds or one of the X UUP
    kids in the DUP-who is next to partner and lose to Martin-

  • Fleggy McFleggerson

    The thing with this vile hateful post is, Roofy baby has secured her seat for many many years to come!

  • michael-mcivor

    Fleggy-

    If Ruth even gets a small stretch she has to wait for 5 years before she can stand for election again-what age is she again-

  • Fleggy McFleggerson[1.06]She may well have secured her seat indefinitely but it’s unlikely to benefit the DUP whose links to loyalist voters is now tenuous without Ruth. Peter daren’t move on her. The clue in the DUP annoucement about the internal investigation, that she won’t be punished, is ‘the phrase ‘take into account her ‘apology’ is so she’s got no worries about even suspension. Nelson got away with not even a wrist slap over Red Sky.

  • Fleggy McFleggerson[1.06]She may well have secured her seat indefinitely but it’s unlikely to benefit the DUP whose links to loyalist voters is now tenuous without Ruth. Peter daren’t move on her. The clue in the DUP annoucement about the internal investigation, that she won’t be punished, is the phrase ‘take into account her ‘apology’ so she’s got no worries about even suspension. Nelson got away with not even a wrist slap over Red Sky.

  • Well DUP….and Sinn Fein are looking more stupid with each passing day.
    Their fate is wrapped up each other.
    And the tactic of whipping up their core to maximise their vote every Election and then be seen ostentatiously co-operating for Obama, Police Games, Jubilee Visits cant go on forever.
    Sooner or later somebody will go too far.
    Id welcome it.

  • Barnshee

    Opt for trial by Jury
    They will never get a conviction

  • Comrade Stalin

    It’s very hard to predict the future in terms of the DUP. Not sure that the Ruth controversy will damage them significantly; they’ll hold onto most of their core vote just fine. Ruth isn’t the only fruitcake councillor they’ve got.

    But their stated longer term objective of trying to woo Catholics who would vote for the union in a referendum is looking lost.

  • Kevsterino

    At this point I believe Ms. Patterson can count on the dissident republican vote. She’s the best thing they have going.

  • FDM

    I think the DUP are stuffed.

    Not just saying that because it is convenient. I am saying that because the evidence I am presented with leads me to that conclusion.

    1. They have lost touch with grass roots people [“the masses”] and are seen as an elite form of overlord” class.
    2. They entered into government with Sinn Fein and it is something that many from the PUL community just can’t stomach. It is poison to them. It is one of the central causes of the chronic decline of the UUP. Once that Rubicon was crossed… It is wrong but neither the UUP nor the DUP explained to the masses that this was 2013 and “we don’t have the numbers any more”.
    3. Related to point one they have become synonymous with big salaries, double jobbing, questionable expenses, questionable morals [in a bible bashing party forsooth], nepotism [family members in jobs, jobs for the boys], religious chicanery [creationism issues] in an increasingly secular society. Doesn’t even matter if have of that is imagined or true. It has stuck in the minds of the voters.
    4. An increasingly King Lear-esque performance as leader by Peter Robinson who post the scandals around expenses/Lock Keepers/5pounddriveways etc… just limps from fumbled disaster to disaster. When is the last time he did anything resolute? Peter has already muted this year about exiting stage left.
    5. A more fractured DUP I can’t remember having seen. You can see that on certain issues individuals have been told to stay off the airways. It seems to me the “disappearance” of a few front of shop senior DUP elected representatives OFF the political radar can only lead me to believe that there are SIGNIFICANT problems surrounding them. Which in turn could bring down an already staggering beast.
    6. The outreach policy to Catholics was still-born. I think the only person in the party who wanted [even to talk about it] it was Peter. The DUP clone Rory McIlroy project is dead.
    7. The census, which I think is the central flame of the street turmoil we are going through at the minute. The writing is on the wall and SF are waiting in the wings to come through the middle with biggest return of seats in the assembly. The day that happens I think you can write the obituary for Unionism in a Northern Ireland context.
    8. The Unionist Forum underlined hopefully, even for the very, very stupid, that “Unionist Unity” is as illusory as a mirage. Even if you could reach the palm trees, there just isn’t enough water to sustain life.

    My prediction will be controversial. I am predicting not a complete electoral collapse but a serious bloody nose for the DUP at the next significant electoral outing. TUV will make up some ground on this. After the bloody nose I expect Peter to walk. He will believe that he has done what he can. Lets face it the prognosis for an improvement of the unionist cause isn’t good.

    After Peters departure I can see the DUP splitting like a chocolate orange [if you will pardon the pun].

    In terms of Ruth, they will hold on to her if they can to retain her link to the “masses”. I think that can only alienate the middle ground people who might sometimes vote for the DUP. They wouldn’t regard themselves as bigots so why vote for one?

    Feel free to tell me where I may be astray.

  • Occasional Commentator

    ” I am predicting not a complete electoral collapse but a serious bloody nose for the DUP at the next significant electoral outing. TUV will make up some ground on this.”

    Discussions within the chambers of Stormont would at least be a bit more ‘colourful’ if the likes of David Vance were successful at the polling booths! 😉

  • Neil

    Vance? Successful? *Shudder*

  • Neil

    OC!

    Vance? Successful? *Shudder*

  • Kevsterino

    FDM, how will the DUP maintain a link to the masses by clinging to Ruth when their complaint regarding her arrest includes a bit about her posts being stupid and obnoxious?

    Does that not reflect badly on the masses who look at Sinn Fein and Republicans with the same visceral hatred?

  • streetlegal

    Peter Robinson would have been happy to see the back of this woman. But she has the backing of the Belfast sectarian wing of the DUP – led by Nigel Dodds and Nelson McCausland.

    If she does end up in Maghaberry, perhaps she could share a cell with McCausland – that would at least save some taxpayers money.

  • FDM

    Kevsterino 4 August 2013 at 4:24 pm

    FDM, how will the DUP maintain a link to the masses by clinging to Ruth when their complaint regarding her arrest includes a bit about her posts being stupid and obnoxious?

    Does that not reflect badly on the masses who look at Sinn Fein and Republicans with the same visceral hatred?

    ————————–

    I think you make very valid scoring points.

    I think if you picked it apart none of it makes any sense.

    One of the gals/guys of a non CNR persuasion on one of the other threads was very incisive. He said Ruth signed off her rant by saying “NS” – NO SURRENDER.

    When contacted by her party she immediately issued an abject and full apology.

    If those were her deep seated beliefs then she really didn’t show the stiff-upper-lip-Dunkirk-Tommy-Atkins spirit when she buckled in less than 60 minutes of pressure from her party.

    That being said we had some of the masses, “a million of them” as LAD reported, outside the police station and obviously offering her their full support. Now work that out?

    Ruth is ONLY a councillor. Yet she clearly forsook her deeply held beliefs to hang on to that and whatever she gets from being a councillor.

    I take no credit for that incisive comment, one of the other posters picked it. Makes no sense to me how or why they should support someone who in less than an hour ran up the white flag to save her skin?

    One of the other posters also made a comment as to her stability at the present time. To me she looked like a rabbit in the headlights leaving the cop shop.

    Iris looked content in her beliefs right up to the point where she had to seek psychiatric assistance and has never been seen since. Is this another real or manufactured meltdown [delete as per your point of view]?

  • I go along with a lot of what FDM says.
    If we contrast the two Fests…Orange and effectively Green this week.
    We have an Feile AND Police Games and there is a certain smugness about Sinn Fein.
    They are of course shameless but am I right in thinking that part of the Police Games thing was a service of remembrance for those Police killed in the line of duty.
    Isnt it all ironic to the point of insanity.
    It is of course Zero Sum. When one side is down …the other is up and not only that but taking an undue delight in the problems of the other side.
    A lot can happen between now and 2016 but yes the DUP have peaked and SF levelled out.
    A tactic for UUP, NI21 and SDLP might be to sabotage the entire Farce by boycotting the 2016 Elections. It would of course require Trust as well as Discipline.
    But just what is the level of voter participation required (35%?) before the whole thing looks extremely dodgy.
    This cant last.

  • Gopher

    Boycotting the 2016 elections because your parties are ineffective is the stupidest tactic I have ever heard and I’m sure NI 21 will take nothing to do with such nonsense since they propose opposition. Boycotting would be like adopting something from the SF or DUP playbook and would achieve nothing. I think you mean the UUP and SDLP cant last the rate they are losing voters.

  • There is already a significant boycott of Elections. The extent to which this makes the Assembly illegitimate is not something with which I have agreed.
    But there is a likelihood that the 2016 Assembly Election will have an even lower turnout.
    There IS a point at which it becomes untenable….if people really do believe that it is a farce, its an option they should consider. If the point of principle that they are contributing to a farce is a bigger point than holding on to a salary….then of course they must weigh that option up.

    It s a matter for more than political parties….a matter I would argue for Orange Order, trade unions, NGOs, journalists, lobbyists.
    and therein lies the problem…there is a cottage industry centred on Stormont and its not just 108 people who can…often falsely…be accused of having their snouts in the trough.

  • Neil

    Replace the word “Republicans” with the word “Unionists” and Ireland would be just as at peace. But fair play for expressing pretty much exactly the sentiments Ruth got arrested for expressing.

  • Submariner

    Feel free to tell me where I may be astray.

    FDM I agree with most of what you say, but don’t underestimate the DUPers ability to appeal to the base instincts of the PUL community come election time. They will wheel out the bigots in the party like Campbell McCausland McCrea and Dodds to squeal blue murder that if the PUL community don’t vote for them then the Taigs will have the first minister position and Gerry Kelly will be justice minister etcetera. As sectarian bigotry is endemic within the PUL community as a whole and has reached epidemic proportions in the Loyalist working class the peepul will vote exactly how they are told.

  • Fork Handles brings up an interesting “I Am Spartacus” type moment.
    If a lot of people…loyalists and free speech activists said exactly the same thing, would they ALL be arrested and charged?

  • michael-mcivor

    ForkHandles-

    ” wouldn’t Ireland be so at peace if we could get rid of the republicans? “-

    Nope-but anyway who would even try to get rid of all the Republicans-there is no orange police force now-the last of the brit army will be leaving and you would not get of your arse to even make an attempt to remove them-

  • SK

    “wouldn’t most people be happy to see the republicans killed off if was possible? ”

    “wouldn’t Ireland be so at peace if we could get rid of the republicans?”

    ____

    People like you are to be laughed at.

  • FDM

    ForkHandles 4 August 2013 at 10:07 pm

    I didn’t bother to read the actual comments, so i’m just picking up on what I think was said. but wouldn’t most people be happy to see the republicans killed off if was possible? no one wants them here in NI and definitely no one wants them in ROI. so wouldn’t that be a just reward for all their murders and so on? wouldn’t Ireland be so at peace if we could get rid of the republicans?

    ————————

    I think if I took the entirety of the time I had spent in slugger into full view, I think I would actually say that this must be one of the most ugly comments I have seen on slugger. The comments I think the man himself has to forward to the authorities who deal with such things.

    “but wouldn’t most people be happy to see the republicans killed off if was possible?”

    “no one wants them here in NI”

    Ermmm well no actually. That to me reads like incitement to murder and cleansing.

    Dealing in generalities Republicans believe in the republican form of government . Government of the people, for the people, by the people. Not some [no matter how benign] goddess anointed by the wizard in the sky.

    Forkhandles probably over-stepped the mark there by about 100 hours community service.

  • DC

    It was Sunday 11th August, a beautiful sunny afternoon, in the border town of Castlederg – hundreds of militant irish republicans were marching through the border town of Castlederg…

    Now children over to you to complete the rest.

  • michael-mcivor

    DC-

    Thousands of Republicans marched through Monaghan today in a Sinn Fein march remembering the Hunger-Strikers-all was peaceful has it should be next sunday in Castlederg-

  • Neil

    … A nationalist parade had it’s annual outing, and though always attended by SF on this year it had been latched onto by same to demonstrate for Richard Hass that nationalists could compromise, have a peaceful parade in a majority nationalist area but Unionists who riot when faced with restrictions and who previously touted the inalienable right to parade (through majority nationalist areas often) dispose of that inalienable right when the paraders are, ya know, Fenians. Unionism, like a plum, obliges SF by calling for the parade to be banned, demonstrating both their inherent double standards and their ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

  • Gopher

    I think you will find that the unionist electorate are quite discerning just ask Peter or Robert McCartney and the TUV, they vote with their conscience or simply dont vote. I don’t think one could call Lady Hermon or Long a bigot on second thoughts given the mono cognitive mindset on here I’m not so sure.

    @ FJH at the time of the agreement the UUP and SDLP had the world (six counties) at their feet all they had to do was present a unified front and they would be the government still. They lost their bottle they and they lost their votes. Stormont is a farce and when SF get the 30 seats needed for the unilateral petition of concern you will see cold war politics taken to a new level with the DUP and SF enjoying the political equivalent of MAD. Will the UUP SDLP and Alliance be able to compromise then? Nope they are too stupid too scared and too bigoted!

  • Submariner[10.23] Problem with that theory is the fleg protesters don’t care what goes on at Stormont and call for it’s, and while many will allow themselves to be used for the umpteenthelection by the DUP, a sizeable chunk will give up voting altogether. Peter is worried enough at this prospect which is clear from his repeated cowardice in the face of Patterson’s multiple offences. Senior DUP figures resnt how she gets away with stuff that others in her party have been punished for. Robinson’s political career is now visibly withering away and at his own hand.

  • paulG

    Although, or maybe because, I consider myself a Republican, I think it’s more important that we have freedom of speech, than the opportunity to lock up bigoted, rabble rousing, old bats like Ruth. (Though clearly her comments are completely incompatible with her party’s policy of sharing power with those she wants to see murdered – and she should of course, be expelled ) .

    Then I read ‘Forkhandles’ suggestion for ethnic cleansing ….

  • Read some of ForkHandles’ previous posts. It’s fun.

  • FDM[9.56] I suspect your point 7 about the census trumps the others as key to the future for unionism. It only remains for |Peter to stand up at party conference as Prince Hamlet and explain why he is such a ditherer, but leave out the line about conscience making cowards of them all as nobody in DUP has a conscience.