“If the party was serious about fairness and equality…”

In today’s Irish News Brian Feeney addresses the Fair Employment Tribunal’s finding that, as Northern Ireland Regional Development Minister, Sinn Féin’s Conor Murphy, MP, MLA, discriminated against a candidate for the post of chairman of NI Water on religious grounds. 

That he had appointed Sean Hogan to the post “because he was not from a Protestant background and because he was known to the Minister and his ministerial colleagues”. 

That he had added three factors to the job specification criteria “to secure the appointment of Sean Hogan”, in breach of the code of practice for ministerial appointments.

And that during his time in office “there was a significant disparity” between the success rates of Protestant and Catholic applicants and “that a Catholic applicant was at least twice as likely to be appointed than a Protestant applicant”.

From the Fair Employment Tribunal’s findings [1.93mb PDF file]

“Furthermore, figures released in relation to 2010/2011 show that of 57 Protestant applications for public appointment, three were appointed.  In the same period nine out of 31 Catholic applicants were appointed.”

And,

“Statistics for other Government Departments show a ratio at or close to 1:1.  The Tribunal is satisfied that there was a material bias against the appointment of candidates from a Protestant background within DRD.”

From the Irish News op-ed

This is unforgiveable, shameful stuff worthy of the record of any unionist ministry pre-1972.  Murphy invoked the support of Felicity Huston who audited the appointment only for her to cut the feet from under him saying that not all the papers had been made available to her.  The tribunal also pointed out that she had asked for the code of practice to be amended once she caught a whiff of what was emanating from Murphy’s department.

Not able to produce a single fact to support his ‘refutation’, Murphy then had the cheek to ask the DRD to appeal.  Only someone secure in the knowledge it won’t cost him a penny would ask for an appeal.  On what grounds?  He doesn’t say.  We’re told Murphy’s behaviour will cost you well over a quarter of a million in compensation and costs.  He walks away scot-free, careless of the damage he has inflicted on any notion of fairness and equality unionists might receive from nationalists in power.

And from Sinn Féin not a word of condemnation.  In fact Gerry Adams supports Murphy despite the slam-dunk evidence against him.  If the party was serious about fairness and equality this odious episode is a prime case where it should make an example of Murphy.  He should be forced to apologise for bringing his office and department into disrepute.  Silence from Sinn Féin in the face of the irrefutable facts, irrefutable in its proper sense, means it condones discrimination against Protestants.

Ultimately he should be kicked out of his Newry and armagh seat.  We all know what will happen of course.  Instead of demonstrating its complete disapproval, Sinn Féin will nominate him in 2015 and he’ll be re-elected with a bigger majority.  Maybe he thinks in time that it will all blow over.  It won’t.

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  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    ‘Ultimately he should be kicked out of his Newry and armagh seat. We all know what will happen of course. Instead of demonstrating its complete disapproval, Sinn Féin will nominate him in 2015 and he’ll be re-elected with a bigger majority. Maybe he thinks in time that it will all blow over. It won’t.’

    interesting – what does that mean?

  • Brid Rodgers

    A strange way to reach out to unionists. Stranger still the silence of the DUP on the issue. Looks like keeping the show on the road at all costs. Same case in housing for North Belfast. DUP minister blocks housing development on Girdwood site to prevent building of much needed houses for nationalist community in Ardoyne with Sinn Fein support. A sad state of affairs for those of us who marched for civil rights and equality. Dia ar sabhail!

  • Angry Planner

    This is particularly embarrassing for Sinn Fein, the next time the Party raises an issue over discrimination, all the other organisation has to say is “Conor Murphy,” and SF won’t be able to refute (there’s that word again!) them.

  • Brid Rodgers is right…..Girdwood, Discrimination and Id add Drumcree School in Portadown (in John O’Dowds own constituency) as another example of Sinn Féin losing touch, getting too arrogant or just their luck running out with a vengeance.
    Its curious how Sinn Féin and DUP facilitate each other while playing to their own galleries.
    Take for example the Mayoralty in Strabane, Omagh and Craigavon.
    In the first two DUP take the chairs but act the hard men in refusing to shake hands with SF…..which gives the impression they are tough on Sinn Féin.
    Oddly Sinn Féin is actually facilitated by DUP not allowing a SF mayor in Craigavon. It allows SF to play the martyr.
    Recently Mark Durkan or Alasdair McDonnell claimed the DUP and SF are working for a one party state with a green and orange wing.
    Thus they connive to actually make each other stronger.
    On this and other platforms I have written that there is an underestimated floating nationalist voter. And to some extent Brian Feeney is more pan-nationalist than any commentator. He reads the nationalist mind very well and his recent writings on SF and his TV appearances have a certain resonance with nationalists who think SF have over-reached themselves.
    Brian Feeney is certainly a voice SDLP should be listening to….rather than (say) Davey Adams, Rev Norman Hamiliton and Duncan Morrow (Conference 2010).

  • I doubt this will come as much of a surprise to anyone with an interest in appointments in large swathes of the community sector.

  • Mister_Joe

    IF“..
    I doubt that anyone in SF is willing to talk or speak out about the emperor’s nakedness. The leadership have always seemed to be ruthless in suppressing dissent, among other things.

  • antamadan

    Agree with Brian Feeney (always liked him) and Bríd Rogers (An tusa atá ánn dar fhíora?) (always liker her); and disappointed with Conor Murphy (who had impressed me). I wonder is the mindset ‘positive discrimination to rectify historic injustice’. I suppose it was brought into the US for that reason (which I understand completely) and the PSNI (which I think was essential, and might have to be brought back)’ ; but it can’t be tolerated as a back-door wink-wink policy. Shocking!

  • Pete Baker

    Garibaldy

    That’s as maybe.

    But it’s a different ball-game when it comes to Northern Ireland Executive Minister’s appointments.

  • ryan

    “Ultimately he should be kicked out of his Newry and armagh seat. We all know what will happen of course. Instead of demonstrating its complete disapproval, Sinn Féin will nominate him in 2015 and he’ll be re-elected with a bigger majority”.
    I’d have to agree with this because Conor Murphys key vote is from his locals in South Armagh and they are unlikely to change their opinion… because this has been a relatively small story/issue.

  • gendjinn

    Conor Murphy’s sectarian hiring practices are unacceptable. Sinn Fein should unreservedly condemn this behaviour and should the findings of the tribunal be substantiated he should be stood down.

    After 90 years I am ecstatic to see unionists coming around to the perspective that discriminating against someone based on their religion is unacceptable. I know it’s a recent development for them.

  • Mister_Joe

    Doublethink has always been with us. Thomas Jefferson wrote a few treatises condemning slavery while he continued to “own” almost 200 of them.

  • Mick Fealty

    How would you like to see the report ‘substantiated’ gendjinn?

  • Lionel Hutz

    On a side-note, it’s been heartening that the Irish News has devoted two main editorials to the issue in the last two days. It has been under-reported. I hope the readers remember it.

    It is sickening that this has happened. Conor Murphy should be made an example of. But he is away to Westminster (except he isn’t). This is the last big story on Conor Murphy before h. Hibernate for a few years so maybe voters in my constituency will remember this come election time.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Before he hibernates*

  • ayeYerMa

    “Worthy of the record of any Unionist ministry pre-1972”.

    Looks like Brian needs to look up a few statistics:
    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/discrimination/gudgin99.htm

  • Mister_Joe

    Excellent question, Mick. Another example of doublethink?
    Dr. Lennon complained that he was discriminated against. His complaint was substantiated by the Fair Employment Tribunal. And now the finding has to be substantiated? Ridiculous. I never heard any complaints about the Fair Employment Tribunal when they found for “Catholics”.

  • Pete,

    It’s the same ball game on a larger scale, especially if it’s publicly-funded. Just that this gets more scrutiny.

  • Mick Fealty

    Gari,

    Just a reminder of the judgement:

    “figures released in relation to 2010/2011 show that of 57 Protestant applications for public appointment, three were appointed. In the same period nine out of 31 Catholic applicants were appointed.”

  • Mister_Joe

    Mick,

    Surely those figures would justify a wider investigation. One swallow does not a summer make but….

  • Mick Fealty

    Gari,

    Your comparison is uncharacteristically misleading since the rest of the departments at Stormont have the ratio which is generally one for one.

  • DoctorWho

    A wonderful vaguely disguised piece of `whataboutery´ from Brid Rodgers.

  • Mick Fealty

    It would be if she was evading some form of nationalist culpability. Davy Adams notes in the IT that the DUP were not the only ones giving Conor a bye ball on this…

  • Alias

    One justification proffered for power-sharing as an alternative to majority rule is that Protestants as the political majority cannot be trusted not to discriminate against Catholics while in political office. Now we have parity of contempt in that Catholics cannot be trusted not to discriminate against Protestants while in political office either. What is now proven, at any rate, is that it is the Catholics that cannot be trusted not to discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation.

    If you look at the figures for the last year that the Catholic minister held office, you’ll note that the success rate for Protestants was 5.26% whereas the success rate for Catholics was almost 6 times higher at 29%. The internal mechanisms that should have prevented sectarian abuse of political office failed to prevent it. Instead, it was an external tribunal which detected it.

    Clearly then there needs to be an overhaul of the system to more closely monitor for state sectarianism. It’s just as well there isn’t any principle of collective responsibility or the entire Executive should resign…

  • aquifer

    Republicanism needs equality and the rule of law.

    Who are these people?

  • lamhdearg2

    I am not sure what Davy Adams has to say on the matter, but Conor will have no need to hibernate, he was on the bbcni talkback show yesterday, needless to say the bbcni team ,did not think to question him on this.

  • Mick,

    I wasn’t trying to be misleading nor was I particularly suggesting that we would find similar judgements against other ministers. Just that there is a pattern elsewhere which means this judgement isn’t such a shock as it might be.

  • Mick Fealty

    Have a look at Davy Adams piece…

  • Thanks for that Mick. Extremely interesting piece indeed. Some valid points about the way this has been ignored. Between this and the financial thing down below, this could have been a very bad few weeks for PSF, but has been the opposite.

  • son of sam

    In any normal democracy,such a ruling would be expected to damage a politicians career.But then,we’re not exactly living in a normal democracy.It is interesting to note the dogs who haven’t barked.The D U P’s silence speaks volumes.Commentators such as Jude Collins and Jim Gibney who would not hesitate to pronounce if the shoe was on the other foot,have been noticeably silent.This is the party whose mantra all along has been “equality”.Ed Moloney’s take in a recent Broken Elbow post is instructive. A particular sentence sums up his position–“By this stage the media should have realised that it’s ok to tell the truth now,that it’s ‘ time to treat sources who have been caught out lying,misleading or hood winking time and time again with an appropriate level of mistrust and skepticism ” Brian Feeney has hit the nail on the head.Will all this harm Sinn Fein?Hardly,as the compliant media look studiously the other way at “When Martin met Lizzie”

  • lamhdearg2

    A roll of shame for the silent?.

  • PaulT

    Brid, John Dallat accused Murphy of being ‘passive’ in appointments, and merely accepting recommendations, this was in the PAC committee meeting in 2010, it was discussed in letters between the dept and the commissioner, the dept clarifying that Murphy felt he had a role in ensuring the right person was picked.

    http://www.publicappointmentsni.org/news/drd-foi.htm

    submitting unranked candidates to the minister is mentioned in an audit back in 2008, strangely it wasn’t an issue then.

    Although the same audit highlighted the lack of feedback to unsuccessful candidates and outlined the dangers

    Of course NIW is not the only body under the DRD, a quick peek at any set of employment figures will let you slice and dice the numbers to produce the results you want. Which is what Lennon did.

  • Reader

    PaulT: Of course NIW is not the only body under the DRD, a quick peek at any set of employment figures will let you slice and dice the numbers to produce the results you want. Which is what Lennon did.
    I put the numbers 3,54,9,22 into a chi square calculation and got a significance value of .0032 – only one in 300 slice’n’dice samples will produce that sort of output. Are there any other figures in the Civil service that represent as much reason for suspicion? Especially when combined with the multiple irregularities in the appointment process!

  • gendjinn

    Mick,

    perhaps “substantiated” isn’t the right word. One is right to retain to a degree of skepticism of any British state group finding fault with Nationalists or Republicans given the long documented history of error, bias and political manipulation.

    The statistics do support discrimination but determining that it was sectarian rather than jobs for the boys has not been conclusively determined. Neither is acceptable but the latter is less offensive than the former and all parties are guilty of it.

    There is another caveat, if the ministers appointments altered the ratio of Protestants to Catholics from 9:1 to 4:1 then the minister is simply addressing an historical sectarian hiring bias.

    While Unionist whinging about sectarian hiring practices is risible, Sinn Fein should not permit such behaviour from its elected representatives.

  • Reader

    gendjinn: While Unionist whinging about sectarian hiring practices is risible…
    Why? Because we are all guilty, whereas, apart from one bad apple, all nationalists are innocent?

  • PeterBrown

    if the ministers appointments altered the ratio of Protestants to Catholics from 9:1 to 4:1 then the minister is simply addressing an historical sectarian hiring bias

    So as the it didn’t happen and it wasn’t Conor himself defences are disproved we’ll fall back on the it wasn’t discrimintrion it was affirmative action without the statutory basis of PSNI recruittment or the involvement of the Equality Commissionwhich is OK because unionists all did it 40 years ago. This is a pretty big packet of straws you’re working your way through clutching at each one individually but let’s dispose of this one by referring you to the Gudgin report linked to on the other thread and the fact that it was just jbs for the boys – so long as the boys were catholics!

  • Reader

    gendjinn: The statistics do support discrimination but determining that it was sectarian rather than jobs for the boys has not been conclusively determined. Neither is acceptable but the latter is less offensive than the former and all parties are guilty of it.
    Given that we tend to go to different schools, live on different streets, and even play different sports, that smokescreen is just as applicable to Shankill Road Motors (made up name – I hope!) as it is to Northern Ireland Water. So it’s just as well it isn’t credited as a defence, isn’t it?

  • Alias

    “The statistics do support discrimination but determining that it was sectarian rather than jobs for the boys has not been conclusively determined.”

    And “the boys” just happened to be Catholic…

    Still, I guess it’s okay if the Shinners’ discriminate against the most qualified citizens and in favour of whomever is in their grubby little Murphia.

  • gendjinn

    Reader,

    Why? Because we are all guilty, whereas, apart from one bad apple, all nationalists are innocent?

    Interesting leap there, do you feel guilty?

    It is risible because the bulk, but not all, of Unionists on this site only see or complain about sectarian hiring practices in the PSNI and now here. It’s as if nothing of this sort ever happened in Northern Ireland prior to the GFA!

    Some consistency and admission of past transgressions by the state would easily address the problem.

    I like your strawman though.

  • gendjinn

    Alias,

    yes, that’s precisely what I said. Thank you for interpreting my words so the correct subversive meaning was clarified for condemnation.

    *rolls eyes*

  • gendjinn

    PeterBrown,

    you should read my first comment on this thread and then realise that my second was a response to Mick’s question about “substantiation”.

    My statement is quite clear in meaning and intent that these possibilities need to be eliminated and if they are there is no defense or excuse for Murphy’s actions.

    Or you could just leap straight to the misinterpretations…

  • PeterBrown

    Gendjinn

    Have a read at this and then if you think it is still justified start the whataboutery….

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/discrimination/gudgin99.htm

  • Pigeon Toes

    “This particular appointment was audited by the appointments commissioner who found that it was properly adhered to,” Mr Murphy said.

    In an interview for the BBC’s Sunday Politics to be broadcast on Sunday 1 July, Mr McGuinness questioned the tribunal’s findings.

    “There is not a sectarian bone in Conor Murphy’s body,” he said.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-18658300
    “Conor Murphy is part of our leadership. Naturally it is disappointing that such a verdict was reached by the tribunal.

    “What this calls into question, in this particular case, is whether or not a minister has a right to make a ministerial appointment or are ministerial appointments going to be dictated by a body which, effectively, is not part of the government?”

    Aye God Forbid the electorate would expect absolute fairness…..

  • Pigeon Toes

    “What this calls into question, in this particular case, is whether or not a minister has a right to make a ministerial appointment or are ministerial appointments going to be dictated by a body which, effectively, is not part of the government?

    Hmm wonder which particular recipient is the brunt of such contempt?

  • gendjinn

    PeterBrown,

    you still haven’t actually read what I’ve written.

    I’m not sure what the point of reading your link but it’s thesis is seriously invalidated by it’s fallacious selection of statistics like “Catholics comprised 26.1% of households, but occupied 30.7% of local authority households”. The correct basis for analysis would be families in poverty not households. At that time multiple generations of catholic families were in a single household.

    Despite the fantasies of the document you link to discrimination in public & private employment is well documented – Bushmills distillery and the NI civil service stats incontrovertibly prove it.

    And you have demonstrated the point I was making about Unionist complaints in this area being risible.

  • Reader

    gendjinn: Interesting leap there, do you feel guilty?
    Nope, that’s why I was annoyed at your suggestion that unionists shouldn’t speak out about discrimination.
    gendjinn: It is risible because the bulk, but not all, of Unionists on this site only see or complain about sectarian hiring practices in the PSNI and now here. It’s as if nothing of this sort ever happened in Northern Ireland prior to the GFA!
    Complaining about current hiring practices is surely more topical than complaining about past practices. You will surely do so yourself, given the opportunity. I expect you would enjoy it, too.
    Gendjinn: Some consistency and admission of past transgressions by the state would easily address the problem.
    The state set up the Fair Employment Tribunal, which seems to fit the bill. And various PM’s have made a few apologies in the past. Right now though, it’s a SF minister who is struggling with both consistency and with admitting a transgression. If you can think of any other Executive minister or Cabinet minister who has a FET ruling against them, name them.

  • PeterBrown

    Well documented – but yet not linked to (unlike mine). I’m tempted to type something about substantiating your claims but I suspect that the irony would be lost on you again….here there is a proven case of discrimination and yet you continue to hark back to historical mopery when I have linked to an article which debunks this myth. Do you do irony at all?

  • seamus60

    “Conor Murphy is part of our leadership. Naturally it is disappointing that such a verdict was reached by the tribunal.

    “What this calls into question, in this particular case, is whether or not a minister has a right to make a ministerial appointment or are ministerial appointments going to be dictated by a body which, effectively, is not part of the government?”

    So who all does Martin believe should be exempt from scrutiny by such bodies. Surely as pointed out he can`t move the goal posts to suit his and his partys agenda.Not to mention his gov allies antics. Imagine the outcry had Matt Baggot have come out with the same. After all are police officers any differant from the complaintant, non elected and paid for out of the tax payers pocket.
    Recently he has taken to attacking the Freedom of information act. Surely something he was going to make great ground from. His party have recently taken to falling way short in defending the integrity of the Housing executives practice of priority housing for the most needy regardless of creed. Now this being put down as though they are above all. Maybe when seeing Martins reaction to this blatant act and follow up, on exposure,people will believe whats happening within the communities. Discrimination is rife against Catholics in Catholic areas, not for their religion but their party affilliation.
    If only grounds existed for complaints of this manner Martin and his party would have something real to complain about.

  • seamus60

    Sorry,That should have read ” lack of party affilliation”.

  • Lionel Hutz

    Martin McGuinness has more or less admitted it with his reference to Ministerial Appointments. Why not have a friend of DUP in charge of the health trusts while we are at it? Sinn Fein cronyism. If only we had an interviewer capable of taking them to task on it.

  • Comrade Stalin

    “What this calls into question, in this particular case, is whether or not a minister has a right to make a ministerial appointment or are ministerial appointments going to be dictated by a body which, effectively, is not part of the government?”

    Good Lord. Did McGuinness actually say that ?

    Did nobody explain to him the role of the courts ? Does he really think ministers are above the law ?

    Recently he has taken to attacking the Freedom of information act.

    I remember Paisley doing that too, back in the day he went into a rant in the assembly about the cost of servicing queries from “silly journalists” or somesuch.

    This is what happens when we elect a bunch of politicians whose principles do not encompass a firm grounding in the role of accountability in a democracy.

  • “If only we had an interviewer capable of taking them to task on it.”

    Lionel, in light of the comments made in the tribunal report there may be issues to be dealt with in relation to both the Ministerial Code as well as, more generally, the relationships embracing ministers, special political advisors and senior civil servants – not forgetting those bodies given a watchdog role to act in the public interest.

  • sonofstrongbow

    McGuinness plays on the stereotype beloved of Irish Republicans that sectarianism is the ‘Protestant Desease’. In much the same way that Republicans “can’t be criminals” they also ‘don’t have a sectarian bone in their bodies’.

    As to Murphy’s behaviour in the Lennon case- meh. Irish Republican murder gangs were focused on the targeting and murder of Protestants, especially so in areas where they were particularly vulnerable, discriminating against them in employment is small beer in comparison.

    What should be of concern to all, although I suspect many in one community may pass it by on the other side of the street, is what McGuinness thinks about governance.

    Dismissing oversight as, at best, an inconvenience to government and calling for government ministers to be left alone to get on with things as they see fit portrays Sinn Fein’s fascistic tendencies.

    What else can be expected from an organisation that puts its own “honour” before ‘truth recovery’ as at Saville, and where ‘army’ directives trump the individual consciences of party members?

    Sinn Fein simply don’t do democracy and these little slips of the sheep’s clothing give a lie to the more honeyed words the Connolly House PR machine spins out.

    Even at this late stage the DUP, and local MSM, should start to question just exactly what it is they’ve climbed into bed with.

  • Lionel Hutz

    It beggars belief. The interview was appalling on this point. Effectively “I won’t go into any details but Murphy did nothing wrong. What mandate does a Tribunal have to say otherwise”. Next to Newton Emerson’s editorial in the IN the other day, I wouldn’t be surprised if Sinn Fein try to do away with the Tribunals for their cheek

  • “start to question just exactly what it is they’ve climbed into bed with.”

    sos, the choice may have been between the present arrangements and London and Dublin collectively leaning towards the SF interest. Not a great choice if you think about it; quality governance wasn’t on offer.

  • Mister_Joe

    Maybe I shouldn’t go back but this reminds me of an argument here a couple of years past. A commentator took fierce exception to someone being called a murderer after being convicted and the conviction being held up on appeal. The commenter said that just because the courts had found the person guilty, they could not be described as a murderer because sometimes there were faulty convictions.

  • PaulT

    In 2008/2009 almost twice as many Protestants were appointed to public bodies than Catholics – 49% and 31%.

    http://www.ofmdfmni.gov.uk/microsoft_word_-_of1_10_0152180__public_bodies___annual_report_-_pdf.pdf

  • PeterBrown

    Paul T

    Only in the Nirvana of a 32 county socialist republic will what is I presume the statistic from the bottom of table 4G on page 19 of 49% v 31% be nearly double – its actually closer to 1.5 times which is almost exactly in proportion with the population, unlike the statistics which we have details for on 2009/2010 where there appears to be almost 50-50 recruitment and in the top jobs of £10k plus more go to Catholics than Protestants which is the opposite of the population – thanks for linking to something that completely undermines your case!

  • lamhdearg2

    Thats some bad math paul.

  • sonofstrongbow

    Given that creative accounting is something of a Sinn Fein forte perhaps there is a math teacher blogger on Slugger who can give us the definitive answer 😉

  • Mister_Joe

    ..math teacher blogger on Slugger..

    Chris, I believe. But the answer is closer to 1.5 than 2, much closer. And 1.5 does not equal 2, even for very large values of 1.5.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Dismissing oversight as, at best, an inconvenience to government and calling for government ministers to be left alone to get on with things as they see fit portrays Sinn Fein’s fascistic tendencies.

    Lads, it’s early days yet for unionists to start dishing out lectures on the rights or wrongs of sectarianism and employment discrimination. I rather suspect there are people in the DUP who are none too happy about the oversight of the courts, especially when you look at – for example – the number of occasions where DUP MPs have invoked parliamentary privilege to name names that would almost certainly get them sued if they were repeated in public.

  • seamus60

    Martin has serious problems to address in the consistancy department as when it comes to issues such as Mandates he`s like a fiddlers elbow.Not that long ago he felt at ease denying them as legitimate. At the same time high lighting results from such sources as the fair employment commission etc when suiting his agenda. Now strangely he questions their authority due to having no mandate ???? Does every body now operating require a mandate ?. When and how did the queen get hers ?.

  • PeterBrown

    Lads as I have pointed out more interesting than 08/09 which is only there for comparison and which was a year which broadly reflected the eligible population – look at the lines above for 09/10 and see how the MOPEs did – presumably all appointed on merit (or perhaps not according to the courts). Maybe Lennon is only the tip of a very large iceberg? Times for a Civil Rights movement I think….

  • sonofstrongbow

    It is an interesting premise to move forward on that no comment should be made on malpractice just in case the future reveals further offences.

    What a silence would reign in the world should we all wait on tenterhooks awaiting to the end of days with our mouths stopped fearful that we would speak before the final sin is manifested.

  • PeterBrown

    Wow – introduce a few incontrovertable facts and the nay sayers and apologists disappear faster than nationalists in a Bel Tel poll during a Euro crisis

  • Comrade Stalin

    Peter, well that might be true if there was a coherent argument to be heard.

  • PeterBrown

    CS

    Not sure which coherent argument you are talking / being sarcastic about….