Don’t denude Stormont of unionist monuments. Let’s have nationalist ones too. What might they be?

 

Odd that the table on which the  Union was signed and a portrait of the Queen by a local artist have been quietly removed from Stormont, according to Jim Allister, a hawk eyed stirrer of eminence.

These  items are  surely less controversial than the bronzes of Carson and Craig and the old boy’s grave outside the south entrance. Will someone wage a useless battle to have the statues removed and dig the old boy and his wife up? There’s little doubt that for the building alone, Craig deserves to be memorialised, as the definitive account makes clear by Alan Greer in Irish Historical Studies May 1999( No 123 (£) “Sir James Craig and the Construction of Parliament Buildings at Stormont”

 There was a ‘band of politicians and civil servants virulently critical of the government of Northern Ireland and suspicious that Ulster Unionists would enjoy the benefits of local autonomy at the expense of the British taxpayer’.16 Sir Frederick Banbury, for example, the Conservative M.P. for the City of London, had ‘great regard for the Ulster Party and for the City of Belfast, but I thought that they were going to have their own Parliament, and were going to deal with their own affairs. Why should I put my hand into my nearly depleted pocket in order to provide premises for my hon. Friends in Ulster?’

Although the formal decision was one for Whitehall, Craig was almost single-handedly responsible for the acquisition of the Stormont estate. Indeed, he was so keen to purchase the site that he arranged a personal loan of £3,000 from his bank to use as a deposit.

This is not a sectarian point, really not.  It’s just that’s it’s better to add symbols to public spaces rather then remove them, to go for “ as well as.. rather than instead of..” and avoid the old zero sum game like the plague.

Can we learn lessons from elsewhere?  Outside Westminster are two dubious monuments , to Richard the Lion Heart and Oliver Cromwell . Richard didn’t give a fig for England other than  to bleed it dry to fund his obsessive crusading. And among his many ruthless acts, Cromwell closed Parliament down. But both were heroes in the Victorian pageant of English history.  and so they were memorialised. Perhaps we can we get to that point in closer than 300 hundred years?

But seriously, who or what can/should be commemorated at Stormont  that nationalists would welcome without  winding unionists up enough for them to  impose their undoubted veto? So far we have the big picture of Assembly members. Should we follow the precedent of  the MPs’  offices block, Portcullis House at Westminster and regularly commission portraits of distinguished members? ( ok that begs a big question).  Art work by  MLAs  is no stranger to the Stormont  so what about more artwork of some of  them on permanent display?

To capture generations of nationalist neglect, perhaps a montage of the whole first generation SDLP which included keen parliamentarians like Fitt, Currie and Paddy Devlin.( Hume despite his undoubted eminence was never keen on Stormont). Older figures like Wee Joe Devlin, Edddie McAteer and Cahir Healey?  And in the end can we really leave out the DFM and senior friends? Or should we go for something incomprehensible and abstract?

Do we need another artistic panel headed up by that keen connoissseur  Eamonn Mallie ?

Any thoughts that might actually be accepted?   The one approach that should not happen is to sneak stuff away without letting on. Evasiveness of that kind implies a guilty conscience.

 

 

 

 

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  • Drumlins Rock

    Was up up recently at Stormont, noted that there were loads of picture rails in the great Hall without any pictures, but you can see Mallon and Paisley stare down from the gallery above, two excellent pictures, as is the assembly one.

    Certainly including more nationalists will be needed over time, hopefully evolving naturally, possibly a start would be to commission two works of art representing the centenaries coming up, boths should be complimentary and agreed of course.

  • How about we start with Daniel O’Connell MP? Not a local of course, but then neither was Carson.

  • Alanbrooke

    Joe Devlin, Gerry Fitt, John Hume.

  • iluvni

    How about they demonstrate that its worth keeping the expensive place open first..

  • Harry Flashman

    Fitt and Joe and Paddy Devlin would be obvious candidates.

    Wasn’t De Valera elected to a constituency in the north? What about Bulmer Hobson, wasn’t he from Belfast? Joseph Bigger too.

    Roger Casement’s da came from Belfast.

    Plenty of material for Northern Nationalists I would have thought.

  • The Paisley portrait is pretty good.
    Clearly Wolfe Tone, Henry Joy McCracken should figure if we are to honour people prior to 1922.

    But as the idea is presumably to deal with the legacy of a Protestant Parliament fora Protestant People then obviously the people who fought the good fight within the building (Healy, McAteer) should balance the procedings.

    Im not a big fan of monuments erected while people still live but surely nobel laureates are deserving of honour within the building.

    And as Carson/Craig did the groundwork for the “old” Stormont, then Bobby Sands should have a degree of honour for his contribution to the new one.
    Whatever his immediate family think of the legacy is irrelevant. Carson didnt think much of his legacy either.

  • FJH,

    Sands might be a little too recent and raw still. Perhaps the next generation will be able to consider his legacy dispassionately.

    I agree that living people should not have monuments, particularly living politicians. But I might be persuaded to make an exception for some joint commemoration of Trimble and Hume. The famous onstage handshake would be a good example (so long as Bono is left out of it). A moment of genuine joy for everyone involved. http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/peace-winners/gfx/1998.jpg

  • Indeed.
    But while not “denuding” Stormont of unionist icons, it would be improper for unionists to “denude” nationalists of their icons.
    Certainly within the nationalist benches at present at Stormont…..there would probably be acceptance of Sands as their “totem”. And it would be bizarre if unionists could veto it but they did get worked up about Easter lilies.

    There is of course another monument at Stormont. The Vesconiallis (sp) statue of Reconciliation.

  • Dec

    Harry

    As Andrew states, why do the proposees have to be Northern?

  • I stand by O’Connell as the most deserving. If it wasn’t for him, not a single catholic nationalist would have a legislative seat, in Stormont or anywhere else. Although controversial at the time, his achievement is now universally accepted. I fail to see how anyone could reasonably object.

    FJH,

    Certainly there are people in Stormont who revere Sands, but Sands is a party-political figure. If we are to choose a nationalist hero, surely one who can represent all nationalists would be preferable?

    And where did I say unionists should have a veto?

  • Harry Flashman

    “As Andrew states, why do the proposees have to be Northern?”

    No real reason other than we’re discussing monuments in the north, O’Connell et al are already more than catered for in Dublin.

  • If the process of choosing a nationalist is to have any value, it should probably reflect the “here and now”.
    The best judges of a nationalist icon are probably nationalists and the larger number of nationalists in the Assembly would probably choose Bobby Sands over O’Connell.
    If a choice is to be made, I dont think that the choice should be made “for” nationallists…that somehow distant figure who frankly most people in Norn Iron would not have heard…..draws a kind of sting……Daniel O’Connell as the acceptable face of nationalism so to speak.

    The choice of Bobby Sands would obviously give some unionists a stroke but I dont think their opinions matter. If I have misrepresented you as thinking that unionists have a veto…then Im happy to put the record straight and note that you agree with me they should have no input.

    I am not at all sure that nationalists need or want a statue in the Stormont Building. There was too much fuss over Easter lily display a few years back.
    Stormont WAS IS…….and should always be a cold house for nationalists.
    The object of the exercise for nationalists/republicans is to bring it down.
    Whether that can be done with some nationalist portrais and statues is a reasonable point. But just as reasonable to say that nationalists should not get too comfortable in their surroundings.

  • FJH,

    I neither believe that unionists should have a veto (no group should have a veto), nor that their opinions are of no consequence. Saying that only nationalists are allowed to pick nationalist heroes is yet another example of sharing out. My side, your side. My statue, your statue. That’s the sort of false equivalence and tokenism that strangles us. Yes, some of the unionist “heroes” commemorated are divisive figures. Erecting more divisive monuments for “balance” is not the solution. One should always hold oneself to a higher standard than ones enemies, not revel in causing offence.

    O’Connell is commemorated in Dublin, but he was an all-Ireland figure. His legacy is just as relevant north of the border. And if nobody north of the border has heard of him, then it is a disgrace that should be rectified. What better way than a public monument?

  • andnowwhat

    Mary Ann Mc Cracken.

    She should be the first. The finest example of a human being ever to grace our isle, never mind Belfast

  • TwilightoftheProds

    Oooh I like the idea of mary anne mccracken. Maybe her brother too?

    FJH is entirely right about the choice of nationalist icons- its for nationalists to decide what they are proud of and want to see represented.

    and that might be nothing. Symbols are there to legitimise an institution as well as challenge the status quo. They can even serve to close down thought.

    Bobby Sands might drive unionists to apoplexy….but figuratively planting him in the grounds of a partitionist devolved assembly within the UK would probably cause Republicans to self combust.

  • Well the “my share, your share” was already an important part of the thread.
    We cannot denude the unionist icons….there was no nationalist input.
    Therefore it follows that nationalist icons should be chosen without reference to unionists.
    We are perhaps strangled as much by a faux “compromise” of splitting the difference. The sort of nonsense that dictates the 12th July is ok but 17th March must have Irish symbols removed to be acceptable.

  • BluesJazz

    I remember Seamus Mallon saying a statue of the greyhound ‘Master McGrath’ would be fitting, but unsure if he was being sarcy.

    However, Irish nationalists would probably approve of a staue of ‘Arkle’. He was Irish and unlike the others mentioned, actually won something.

  • andnowwhat

    Actually Twilight, I think the best message would be thanks but no thanks.

    Just leave the muscle flexing to the insecure and the paranoid

  • FJH,

    What, we’re not allowed shamrocks, harps and leprechauns on Paddy’s day now? Or do you mean Republican symbols?

  • Mr Gallagher,
    I think you know exactly what I mean.
    The National Flag of Ireland is a symbol of Ireland.
    It seems that in the “new” Belfast of Titanic & Cathedral Quarters, every flag is acceptabe (quite properly except of course the Irish flag…….even on Irelands National Day.

    The position of the Overclass has been to regulate acceptable forms of Irishness for Irish people.
    As Ive said…..IF…….the symbols of unionism at Stormont are to be respected and kept, then it follows that the same should be the case for symbols of nationalis/republicanism.
    Id be surprised if anyone would seek to limit those symbols.

  • Alias

    A nationalist is by definition someone who promotes the principle of sovereign nations, so only British nationalists would want be be ‘honoured’ by Stormont. Irish nationalists would understand that Stormont is a regional parliment for a sovereign British nation and exists in opposition to the former national rights (now formally repudiated) of non-sovereign Irish nation within that British jurisdiction.

    What is proposed is that figures who represent the non-sovereign Irish nation, duly devoid of national rights, should take their place as British citizens within the British state. Perhaps Gerry Adams or John Hume would be most fitting, but certainly no Irish nationalist would mistake the insult for an honour.

  • Certainly when I enter Stormont as a MLA……and why not indeed…….my position as an Irish nationalist will be that Id prefer to call in the bulldozers than arrange for Mr Laurence Llewelyn Bowen to decorate the place.

  • It has crossed my mind that if nationalists were really canny, they would erect a statue to HJ McCracken, followed by Parnell, Sam Maguire and Erskine Childers. And make sure each one’s religious denomination was mentioned on the plaque.

  • Zig70

    Oisin McConville or Marty Clark.

  • ForkHandles

    If ‘nationalist’ means people who are opposed to the state of Northern Ireland. Then it doesn’t really make sense to honour them in a primary way within the state establishment such as the regional assembly buildings. It doesn’t make sense for the state, and also is dishonest about their actual beliefs. But I think as we are now post conflict and all that nonsense, it would be entirely appropriate to honour people from the now ROI who have played major roles in the history of Ireland. We are after all one of 2 Irish states, one of course being a separate Irish country outside the UK. While it is completely daft of people like Fhorse to suggest that IRA people like Bobby Sands be somehow honoured by the state that he hated and wanted destroyed. There is certainly the argument that Irish political figures that are honoured in the ROI could be honoured in NI / Stormont also. Obviously not in a prominent position as they would be anti the actual state itself. But perhaps within the stormont buildings. But any honouring by picture or statue of ROI figures in NI should be reciprocated in the south by an equal picture mounting or statue of a figure related to the setting up of the NI state. We are after all talking about balance. This is balance between the 2 states in Ireland, not between the 2 current views in NI. People from Ireland’s history that played roles in the 2 states should be honoured by both states.
    I wonder what the chuckies think about statues and pictures in Dublin that honour the NI state and its founding figures? If they won’t accept this, then why should NI people accept anything to do with ROI/Nationalist figures? Are there already pictures/statues in ROI that could be reflected in NI?

  • Drumlins Rock

    To balance out Lord Craigavon’s tomb just outside the East doors maybe Marty could book a spot just across from the West doors.

    Then at Carson statue there are 5 points of ground between each road in front, let each executive party commission a statue for there, finally to include all the named above you could included them in a version of the Bayeux tapestry.

  • ForkHandles,

    So if Stormont wants to erect a statue to O’Connell, Dublin must erect a statue to Carson? That’s effectively giving Dublin a veto on statues. To pursue “balance” in such miserly detail is a thinly veiled excuse for inaction.

    We cannot know what O’Connell’s position on partition would be, though I’m sure many would hazard a guess. But since he predates partition, neither Irish jurisdiction should have a monopoly on his memory. Have we as a people benefited from his achievements? If so, we should honour him on his own merit.

    But if we are limiting ourselves to Northerners, then McCracken it is.

  • HeinzGuderian

    A statue commemorating ‘the disappeared’,would be appropriate,rather than the hungry striker.
    But I fear irish republicans don’t want to dwell too much upon that.

  • USA

    Henry Joy McCracken
    Henry Munro

    Mary Ann McCracken
    Richard Frazer McKinstry
    James Hope
    William Drennan
    Samuel Neilson
    William McCabe
    Non Ulstermen
    Wolfe Tone
    Thomas Russell
    Lord Edward Fitzgerald
    Different Era
    James Larkin

  • USA

    Yeah Heinz,
    That’s what I would expect from you. Speaking of which, how’s that Rangers thing working out for you?

    🙂

  • JH

    Mary Ann/ HJ McCracken
    John Hume
    William Drennan
    James Hope 🙂
    Wolfe Tone

    And we’re living in history making times, so why not
    Martin McGuinness
    Ivan Cooper?

  • Banjaxed

    Forkhandles above (tip hat for the inspiration!) set me thinking that a certain TUV member might possibly recommend two vast and trunkless legs of stone in Mourne marble with the inscription:
    ‘Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!’
    But then again, that would be too-oo-oo cynical, would it not?

  • Alanbrooke

    JH

    you left off Mary MacAleese – local girl makes it to the top spot.

  • john

    I vote for Darron Gibson for the simple reason the BT for the first day in a year are not running a story on the IFA/FAI farce and hundreds of people will have nowhere to rant.
    On a serious note there are any number to choose from but personally feel it should be for someone who came from these parts like HJ McCracken or his sister Mary ann, Drennan, Neilson amongst many others. Cooper and Hume are very deserving but I dont want to sound morbid its usually an honour saved for the dead.
    Any statue should be done tastefully and respectfully and I cant think of a finer example

    http://www.hellomagazine.com/celebrities-news-in-pics/04-04-2011/8/celebrities/

  • Chris Donnelly

    Brian Walker
    How our vocabularies betray our prejudices….

    You suggest nationalists avoid ‘winding up’ unionists and proffer the idea of us selecting former SDLP electoral figures, presumably on the grounds that such individuals are the least upsetting to unionists. What arrogance!

    This is- yet again- one of those situations which will in time compel unionists to finally realise the significance of the shared and equal society which we have agreed upon through the various Agreements and shared political institutions.

    Stormont should be but one location for the ‘even-ing’ up of politically and culturally important symbols and statues. What of Derry city centre, Belfast City Hall and the many other provincial towns?

    As for the idea that Bobby Sands was too recent, consider the UDR momument in the centre of Lisburn recently erected- there goes that argument….

    Personally, I think something commemorating ’98 at Stormont- as well as 1916- would be most fitting. Perhaps the ’98 monument could face Cavehill given that location’s significance to the United Irishmen; whilst a 1916 memorial could prominently display those of the leaders who spent time residing in Belfast.

  • Chris Donnelly

    Two more ideas spring to mind:

    A united Irish memorial in the centre of the demographically balanced (but certainly not symbolically balanced) town of Antrim, to remember the Battle of Antrim;

    A statue to Roger Casement in Ballymena.

  • Brian Walker

    forkhandles “it would be entirely appropriate to honour people from the now ROI who have played major roles in the history of Ireland..” and vice versa?

    Are nationalists opposed to the newly defined NI State per se? Is it the same as NI in the Union?

    Chris Donnelly, Oh damn! Did I really betray my prejudices? So nationalists have never tried to wind up unionists have they? Would it help if I added vice versa? No I suppose not. Who’s betraying their prejudices again? Lighten up! Glad to see you playing the game anyhow.

  • Chris Donnelly

    I’m sure there’s been plenty of winding up all round, but cautioning nationalists against suggesting names of people unionists might not like, and then actually going to the bother of nominating SDLP figures, is taking things to a new level.

    And I do hope we can agree that Stormont should be but the first place for the ‘levelling’ of the field, with Derry and other places to follow? After all, it remains quite the remarkable feat of tolerance for Derry’s overwhelmingly nationalist population to accept the essentially British/ unionist character of its town.

    Would that Ballymena, Lisburn et al could follow suit and reciprocate….

  • Scáth Shéamais

    Why not just go with one of Carson’s nationalist counterparts, like Arthur Griffith or Michael Collins? Carson was a totem for the Northern state, as Griffith and Collins were to the Southern state.

    Putting a republican like Bobby Sands up there, as much as some people might enjoy using it to annoy the unionists, seems like it would be more of a slight against everything Sands himself stood for. A kind of monument to the failure of republicanism thus far.

  • Chris,

    The only SDLP person I mentioned was Hume, and that was only because of the Nobel prize. If that is currently too party-political then fair enough, we can wait. Like I said, I’m not generally a fan of memorialising the living.

    Pre-1969 Nationalist Party figures would be the most obvious choice to set against Carson and Craig. Joe Devlin comes to mind, but I wouldn’t think he’d be at the top of the list. Pre-partition figures have more than one function – they are a reminder that history in this part of the world did not have a huge gap between 1690 and 1921, and also that political divisions during that period were rather more fluid than they are today.

    And yes, of course this should just be the beginning of a process.

  • SS,

    I think you’re falling into the same trap as ForkHandles above. Is it about balance between North and South, or is it about balance between Catholic and Protestant within the North? The two cannot be completely separated, of course. But considering that it’s symbolism at Stormont we’re tackling in this thread, I would think emphasis should be on the latter.

  • ayeYerMa

    lol @ Chris complaining about the “essentially British/ unionist character” of Londonderry. It’s a plantation city built where there was essentially nothing there before – the town wouldn’t exist in the first place if not for its plantation history.

  • DoppiaVu

    I’d suggest a huge diptych picturing Alex Salmond and Jimmy Sands.

    Jimmy as an example of the nihilistic, self-destructive and self-defeating path followed by republicanism during the troubles

    Alex as an example of how to get one over on the Brits without actually destroying people’s lives

  • Chris Donnelly

    lol @ Chris complaining about the “essentially British/ unionist character” of Londonderry. It’s a plantation city built where there was essentially nothing there before – the town wouldn’t exist in the first place if not for its plantation history.

    Ayeyerma
    I dare say some poor native souls had to be dispensed with in order to claim the land.

    In any case, that’s hardly relevant. The city should be reflective of its traditions, and Derry city centre fails on that charge due to unionism’s dominant place in Irish history.

    Ironically, nationalists have not sought to redress that imbalance to date, though there was an opportunity recently with the naming of the new bridge in the city (of course, one bridge straddling the Foyle is already named for a unionist.)

    Unionists- like Allister- wanting greater British/ unionist symbolism must reflect on how they have failed to reciprocate and find means of redressing the imbalance if they want to be taken seriously when raising such issues as the Act of Union table or portraits of members of the British Royal family.

  • Scáth Shéamais

    Andrew, if we are talking about a monument to complement Carson (as the primary unionist symbol at Stormont) then it should be kept in mind that he was a Southern unionist.

  • SS,

    I already pointed that out. 😉

  • Harry Flashman

    “After all, it remains quite the remarkable feat of tolerance for Derry’s overwhelmingly nationalist population to accept the essentially British/ unionist character of its town.”

    Balderdash!

    As I said in the Fleadh thread;

    “As for culture and sport, well Derry City has always had heaps of both but unfortunately not of the sort that Comhaltas would approve of. Derry was a garrison town, in mentality it still remains that way.

    We love football (soccer to the non-believers), rugby, cricket is very popular, the music you hear in the Derry Air is British pop music and for the middle brows operettas at St Columb’s Hall. Sure, Mary McLaughlin had a brilliant Irish dancing school but that was just an excuse for the wee girls to dress up for the Easter Feis, in which most of the other music contests were of a decidedly non-Gaelic nature.

    Look at the names in Derry, those that aren’t from Donegal, Gallagher, Hegarty, Sweeney etc came off the boat or out of Ebrington Barracks, Thornton, Winston, Whyte, Guthrie (names from my classroom off the top of my head). Mr Hume always won our vote and even dear old Martina judging by her surname must have had an ancestor who sailed up the Foyle.

    No, Comhaltas is right, Derry City is a city of UK culture, stick the Fleadh in Desertdawson or Castlefelt or wherever, it might be more appreciated there.”

    Derry City has a nationalist, with a small “n”, majority, but the people of Derry know what their history is and have no difficulties with it. Only bigots in Belfast could get worked up about it.

  • JH

    Harry
    “Look at the names in Derry, those that aren’t from Donegal, Gallagher, Hegarty, Sweeney etc came off the boat or out of Ebrington Barracks, Thornton, Winston, Whyte, Guthrie ”

    This made me LOL. “If you don’t count the natives practically everyone is a planter!”

    Seriously. What century is this?

  • Harry Flashman

    Er, no, the Derry names I listed were all from my Catholic school, they weren’t “planters” but Derry Catholics, nationalists for the most part, who did not as Chris ludicrously suggested perceive some sort of cultural imbalance in the city’s culture but in fact totally embraced the multifaceted and diverse history and culture of the city.

  • Dec

    ‘Derry Catholics, nationalists for the most part…but in fact totally embraced the multifaceted and diverse history and culture of the city.’

    You essentially implied they rejected Irish culture, unless dressing up was involved, and were all the better for it.

  • JH

    Didn’t you just describe them as “off the boat” or out of the barracks?

    Why would their name affect their attitude to British culture in the city?

  • Chris Donnelly

    Harry F
    Nationalists and republicans are to be commended for embracing the diverse history of their city in Derry, and should not seek to eradicate expressions of British or unionist culture.

    But that doesn’t detract from the fact that nationalists/ republicans would like to see their cultural and political identity similarly recognised in town centres elsewhere.

    To suggest a fondness for soccer or ‘British’ pop music equates to a garrison mentality is absurd.

  • Harry Flashman

    JH and Dec you’re getting a wee bit hung up on a somewhat tongue and cheek post I wrote for the fleadh thread, maybe slightly out of context here but I wanted to show that despite having a politically nationalist majority, Derry was not an especially culturally nationalist town.

    Chris there’s nothing to “commend”, the culture of Derry is the culture of Derry, Derry people relate to it as the city’s ethos, we don’t parse and analyze it and say “this belongs to unionist Derry’s culture and this is part of nationalist Derry”.

    I take your point that other towns in the North should do the same.

  • HeinzGuderian

    us……if you didn’t like my suggestion,just say so lad.

    Not sure what Scottish Football has to do with this particular topic ? But if you think,that being a Unionist,I therefore show allegiance to ANY Scottish Football Team,you are very much mistaken !!

    😉

  • Being as we are supposed to be into centenaries, it might be a timely reminder that the current decade includes the Divis Street Riots when the National Flag was removed from the electoral offices of Billy McMillan by the police from Hastings Street.
    An early influence on me as I was at school in the vicinity.
    That all worked out well.
    And I have often thought that it was an overlooked aspect of our history.
    Something commemorating that at Stormont would be nice.

  • BluesJazz

    The greatest Irish male has his 50th anniversary in 2 years time of winning Irelands greatest sporting event.
    Surely a statue would be in order for nationalism to cherish.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arkle

  • between the bridges

    What might they be? a picture of an Armalite and a ballot box?

  • PaulT

    Why not save money and just add a hurl to Carsons outstretched hand maybe put a sliothar in his other

  • Drumlins Rock

    “as we are supposed to be into centenaries…. I was at school in the vicinity”

    Knew you were getting on a bit FJH, but didn’t think you were jsut that old!

  • Another day closer to “bus pass”
    Ah I meant we should not overlook the fact that within the centenaries there are several “50ths” in the next ten year….not to mention 75th anniversary of WW2 starting.
    And Id also say we are totally ovelooking Womens Suffrage (raised I believe by a woman politician at a seminar earlier this week) .
    Wont score party points by mentioning which one….;)

  • ‘…..just add a hurl to Carson’s outstretched hand….’

    PaulT. How long do you think it would get staying there before a DUP mob would arrive to take it down. Remember 1964, flag in SF office.

  • PaulT

    ‘…..just add a hurl to Carson’s outstretched hand….’

    “PaulT. How long do you think it would get staying there before a DUP mob would arrive to take it down. Remember 1964, flag in SF office.”

    Madraj55, Carson was fond of hurling and he disliked the OO, an outlook on life which matches that of many nationalists, so I don’t see why its necessary to erect a nationalist friendly statue when the prime statue in NI can be easily and honestly adapted, possibly adding a cheap brass plate with some of his quotes, maybe

    “What a fool I was! I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland”

    Job done really

  • PaulT It wasn’t me who suggested the placing of the hurl. I was reacting to it. I must have quoted your user by mistake.

  • PaulT

    sorry madraj55, think its me causing confusion, I suggested adding the hurl, guess I didn’t really address your comment regarding the DUP mob, what can I say, it was ever thus, is there a nationalist emblem said mob wouldn’t show up to for the sake of mopery, at least with my suggestion they would be tearing down one of their own ‘iconic’ figures

  • HeinzGuderian

    …..that would be the dup mob who murdered Dennis Donaldson ? Or the dup mob who murdered Robert McCartney ? Or perhaps it was the dup mob who dragged jean McConville away to her torture,and death ?

    A statue in remembrance to ‘the disappeared’,as already mentioned,is the only memorial nationalists/republicans need !!

  • …the only memorial nationalists/republicans need …

    Heinz,
    If you mean all members of those two classes, then your comment is offensive.

  • HeinzGuderian

    What ? Your offeneded Joe……….all the way from Canada ?

    😉

  • No, Heinz. I’m not a member of either of the groupings you named.