To the objective, impartial observer, disturbing questions about collusive and corrupt behaviour are raised

The families of the Miami Show Band members gave their reaction to the HET’s report today on the killing of three members in 1975.

In a detailed statement, the survivors of the attack report that the HET concluded:

‘To the objective, impartial observer, disturbing questions about collusive and corrupt behaviour are raised. The HET review has found no means to assuage or rebut these concerns and that is a deeply troubling matter.’

This is in specific reference to evidence relating to Robin Jackson, as they outline in the statement:

The most alarming HET finding concerns the involvement of Robin Jackson, aka “The Jackal”, a notorious UVF member. Jackson was arrested at an early stage in the enquiry, but was released without charge. The HET review found disturbing evidence that Jackson was tipped-off in May 1976 that his fingerprints had been found on a silencer attached to the Luger pistol used in the Miami murders. Jackson claimed that two RUC officers, one a Detective Superintendent, had advised him, in Jackson’s words: ‘to clear as there was a wee job up the country that he would be done for’.

Again, though, with the reference to “collusive and corrupt behaviour” the emphasis in the conclusions is on this elusive determination of collusion, a non-specific crime, rather than the very specific activities of a Detective Superintendent which *presumably* are now being considered by the DPP. But then again, who would want to create a narrative that has the state, and it’s agents involved in murder?

Indeed, how could anyone wish for that?

, , , , ,

  • galloglaigh

    Decimus

    No holes in my narative mucker- that from the one whose narative comes from library books read as a teenager 🙂

  • I hope people don’t stop reading books when they reach 20 ;-). I still get about a third of mine on loan from the library.

  • Decimus

    No holes in my narative mucker- that from the one whose narative comes from library books read as a teenager

    A Chieftan Tank could be driven through your narrative mo chara. It is based entirely on a combination of bedwetting hysteria and republican propaganda.

  • You guys are setting yourselves up for yellow cards. Mick detests man playing.

  • Decimus

    Joe,

    I am attacking the narrative and not the man.

  • Munsterview

    Harry : “…Nowhere did I say that the entire security apparatus of the Northern Ireland state, including all of the UDR and all of the RUC and all of British intelligence was involved in terrorism, that would be an absurd and preposterous claim…..”

    Really ?

    You can chide ‘sonof….’ for being either incapable or unwilling to join up the dots and face the reality of what occurred, but he is far from being the only one. There may be some excuse for ignorance on matters of Insurgency and Counter Insurgency and all what that entails in the pre-internet days, but not now when anyone with a net connection can have access to information that in previous conflicts, was only available to Establishment ‘Insiders’.

    From very early days when General Frank Kitson took a direct ‘hands on’ in the Northern Conflict, every step of the Counter Insurgency from the broad sweep to the fine detail was orchestrated and choreographed by State Forces. The lines of responsibility ran all the way to the British Government Cabinet table as they did for ultimate responsibility for the deeds done in attempting to suppress the Liberation Forces in every ex-Colonial Country conflict.

    As in all wars there were incidents and events that occurred outside of the planned matrix, but these were few and far between, it is all about controol and an ‘out-of-controol’ or rouge unit is as much of a risk to it’s ‘own side’ as it is to the enemy and consequently is not tolerated for long.

    The surgical SAS strikes the brutal brute force of the Paras and the bloody terrorizing tactics of Groups like the Shankill Butchers were all part of the same planned matrix. The Miami Show band Massacre was not an isolated ‘one off’, that bomb was supposed to have gone off in a different time and place where when it did, the British CO’IN propaganda would have swung into action.

    There have been repeated calls in Slugger to have the whole Insurgency and Counter-Insurgency examined, yet can any one delineate one of the dozens of British Post-Colonial, Liberation Conflict / ‘British Policing Operation’ ( as they were always termed) where there was such an examination took place ?

    It did not happen post the Irish War Of Independence in relation to the Burning Of Cork, The British State assassination of the various Democratically Elected Lord Mayors etc nor will it happen post this conflict.

  • Harry Flashman

    Munster, one thing of which I am fully aware is that British Intelligence is one of the most ruthless and dangerous organisations in the world and have been for at least two hundred years, even despite the UK’s decline they still remain a very effective and indeed sinister organisation. Not without reason do the Iranians still claim that Britain, the “Old Fox”, is as dangerous if not occasionally more so than the young pups in the CIA and Mossad.

    I am fully aware, anyone who has studied Northern Ireland’s recent history will be aware, that British Intelligence engaged in some seriously devious and indeed criminal activities during the Troubles.

    It is my believe that in the mid-Seventies, particularly 1974, British Intelligence like most other major intelligence agencies around the world had gone rogue. We will never fully learn what went on in Europe, Latin America and Asia in those years following the Oil Crisis and before the rise of Reagan and Thatcher when western intelligence agencies convinced themselves that Armageddon was coming and they needed to act fast to knock off their enemies.

    Horrible things were done, Italy saw the murder of Aldo Moro and the Milan station bombing, the strange supermarket massacres in Belgium, the whole Gladio business, Wilson’s fall from office, Whitlam’s defenestration in Australia, do I even understand half of it? No, not even 0.01% of it, but sufficient to know that dangerous men, with sinister motives were manipulating local situations and local issues to flex their muscles, get in training and basically have a lot of sick fun.

    Furthermore I believe that within the “right” there was a sub-plot of a turf war between, the western European, quasi-fascist mindset determined on a united Christian Democrat style Europe and the Anglo-Saxon pro-Americans, this was particularly fought in the UK where the Anglo-Saxons won with the installation of Maggie, although the other side successfully killed her protege Airey Neave before he could do them much damage.

    Northern Ireland was a very small part of this, Republicans believe that British Intelligence were engaged in a war specifically against them, a typically parochial approach. The Brits didn’t care who they were murdering or manipulating, it was only practice for them when they made the move on the “mainland” when the long-awaited “balloon went up” as was commonly believed was only a matter of time in Britain in the 1970’s.

    The Intelligence services manipulated various terrorist organizations here, backing one group then wiping them out as necessary, of that there can be no doubt. However to conclude from that that the entire thirty years of the Troubles was one big puppet show by British Intelligence is nonsense. There were a great deal of people doing stuff outside the scope of the Intelligence services and not everyone was susceptible to them. Most of all, however, we simply weren’t that important to them.

    Northern Ireland was a playground for dangerous men, it was a useful training exercise for young guns needing to be blooded. Enoch Powell always warned about the “High Contracting Parties” operating in Ulster. But like I say we really weren’t that interesting compared to Angola or Pnomh Pen.

    Who doubts that Sir Robert Nairac GCMG, a decent old cove recently retired from Her Majesty’s Foreign & Commonwealth Office after interesting service in Jakarta, Buenos Aires and Belgrade would have jolly interesting tales to tell of his youth over the port and stilton at the Master’s table in some pleasant Cambridge Senior Common Room to which he had quietly slipped away? No doubt the tale of his pretending to be an IRA man in a provo bar in South Armagh would raise a few chuckles and eyebrows but he’s a fine fellow nonetheless.

    ‘One of Us’ as Mrs T used to say.

  • Barnshee

    “The surgical SAS strikes the brutal brute force of the Paras and the bloody terrorizing tactics of Groups like the Shankill Butchers were all part of the same planned matrix”

    Soldiers are not policemen A soldier is trained to fight The British army( originally welcomed with cups of tea on Falls) enjoyed a short “honeymoon” while the separated the protagonists and allow the IRA to reform behind the barriers..

    The army was then attacked Soldiers were totally unsuitable to internal policing and they behaved er like soldiers and the rest is history.

    The shortest experience of government indicates total incompetence in all they do .The total balls ups of NHS and Taxation to name but two are typical and thats just National Governments ,before we move to the fuck up that is the local Assembly. The idea that the government could create a ” planned matrix” is risable

    In my experience they sat about like headless chickens and responded rather than planned.

  • Munsterview

    Barnshee

  • Munsterview

    Barnshee : ‘…The idea that the government could create a ” planned matrix” is risable….’

    By sixty-nine the British Army and in particular the ‘Kitson Types’ had been in continual conflict with liberation struggles from the end of the Second WW to the intervention in Derry and elswhere in the North.

    Their response in the North was not a one off, it was a continuation of their other Liberation supression activities in all the other Ex-Colonial countries and an aplication of the lessons learned.

  • galloglaigh

    Munsterview

    You’re wasting your time. These people only see republicans as terrorists. The great British army, and their Crown forces never did anything. All that happened here, and post WWII is all Communist and republican propaganda. They will all go to heaven, and we will rot in hell!

  • galloglaigh

    When I start typing, the text box below shows I have a black spot?

  • John Ó Néill

    Galloglaigh – it says that for everyone, unless Mick has got sick of all of us.

  • galloglaigh

    Cheers John

  • Munsterview

    John : could be, could be!

  • Munsterview

    gallo…. : ‘You’re wasting your time. These people only see republicans as terrorists. The great British army, and their Crown forces never did anything….’

    Two audiences here, those who who you accurately describe with closed minds, but they are no longer the majority, even if they are the most vociferous and vindictivly Anti-Republican here on slugger.

    I always had a life apart from The Movement, several in fact. In history conferences and cultural events I have met many up there and across the water who ten years ago, or even five years back would have the mentality you describe, but in recent years they are keen to find out the real history of these Islands and they are prepared to look outside the ‘Planter Narrative’ of history.

    Then there are also those who I make common cause with who take an NWO view and see the bigger patterns here not only in the recent conflict in the North but through the broad sweep of history. I have met some Unionists that have been absolutely amazed and even horrified when listening to my exchanges with ex-British Army service me and former Intels when we discuss the reality of what happened up there.

    If the Fianna Failed / Roman Catholic Church distorted myth narrative of history prevailed in the South up to the fairly recent past, those of Unionist background can hardly be blamed for having a unassailable views regarding the foundation of the Northern State, given how these were propagated across all aspects of Unionist culture from cradle to grave. This was so distorted that Southern C. of I. were in horror of it and were even more vehemently opposed to, say Drumcree, than they were to the IRA.

    While the events of the past conflict may be too immediate to engage in openly in arenas such as Slugger as any ‘of their side’ openly doing so would immediately be subject to a barrage ‘Lundy abuse’ from the self appointed ‘Orange Thought Police’ Then there are the Old Securicats that are still fighting yesterday’s battles rather than to-morrows future.

    One of my daughters is working in Scotland and has been lucky enough to have found a fine Scottish lad for a partner who happens to be a Presbyterian and his views would have little in common with the narrow constricted Northern sectarian views given here of people who also believe themselves to be Presbyterian. Things are moving, people are listening and if not I would not merit the regular focussed attention and attempted ridicule that I do from the same predictable sources.

    These sources reflect one strident minority, but here in Slugger unfortunately, dominant view. but in my experience going back to the late James Simmons and his circle or Davie Hammond and his in the seventies when I had a much higher political political profile, I can say that there is another Protestant ethos out there that is well worth engaging with and we in Republican Ireland have as much to learn from them and that ethos as they have from us.

    The dreams and hopes of ‘The Bold United Men’ and indeed all the fine women also such as Betsy Grey are far from lost and their unity and common purpose is not beyond recovery. The Unionist Narrative in the North is now as discredited as the Fianna Failed/ RC church one in the South. Across the water as I find each time I go back there whether it is Nationalism in Scotland or an increasing politising and political awareness of ‘English England’, ‘Times are indeed a changing’

    Appreciation, exchange of views, dialogue and understanding can facilitate that change and if it did not, I and other Republicans who have stuck with Slugger, would not be subjected to the attempted discrediting reaction we provoke from the usual suspects.

  • Alan N/Ards

    Munsterview

    What is the reality of “what happened up there”? Do you believe that the slaughter of innocent people in the pursuit of a UI was justified? Do you believe that Betsy Grey would have been as proud of the provisional republican movement as you are? I really don’t believe that anyone, regardless of their religious or political backgroud, can be proud of what has happened on this island over the last 100 years.

    I’m someone who worships regulary in a Presbyterian church and I have never heard an anti catholic or nationalist sermon being preached from the pulpit. Are you saying, that because the vast majority of presbyterians do not believe in the republican dream of a UI, then they must be bigoted?

    If the unionist narrative is discredited, then surely the killing machine of the provos, has dicredited the republican narrative also.

    Now that the provo’s religious and politically sectarian war is over, do you believe that there is a non sectarian republican movement (in the mould of Tone, McCracken and Grey) out there, that can entice unionist’s into voting for a UI?

  • sonofstrongbow

    Irish Republicans, and their fellow travellers in the Lunatic Conspiracy Club, are best left to type out long, long, long missives mining the Kitson mother load or whatever.

    They lost their ‘war’ and are now deluding themselves that they are winning the ‘peace’. They will never admit, especially to themselves, that they were compromised at an early stage and had to compromise in the end for something very, very far short of their stated goals.

    The ‘things are moving’ or the ‘world is changing’ narratives are the latest manifestations of straws being grabbed at to help salve their age-old bitterness in defeat. Defeats that have, in their own world, lasted 800 years.

    I sometimes wonder who they are mostly trying to convince. The useful fools? No, they are easily fed from the hand. The casual political or conflict tourist? Again no, they do not need so detailed tales a simple “Wind That Shakes The Barley” will stir the ‘appropriate’ reaction.

    I conclude it is themselves (alone) they address. Their own psychosis requires a constant drip feed of self-medicated twaddle; the all encompassing tentacles of perfidious John Bull, the cowering croppie forced to become a hedgerow assassin, amongst others, are mustered in an attempt to make this latest in a long line of squalid sectarian murder campaigns something more than it was.

    As the end of 2011 approaches I, as a unionist, look around and find myself mostly content. Sure I have to put up with some less than wholesome characters playing at politicians along with some odious hangers-on gorging at the public trough. The MOPE chorus is babbling on with whatever is the cause de jour this week, but all in all things could have turned out much, much worse.

    Of course the icing on my cake is visiting Slugger where I can get an inkling of the angst of the ‘Movement’s’ detritus as they keen their heartfelt laments for their lost love Chuckee Orla.

    Next year Orla, perhaps next year …………….

  • between the bridges

    MV.
    The great British army,
    closed minds, vindictivly Anti-Republican
    ‘Planter Narrative’
    Northern State, Drumcree,
    ‘Orange Thought Police’
    Northern sectarian views
    usual suspects.
    I Totally agree with you, it’s just a pity more republicans where not as open minded and progressive as your goodself.

  • Munsterview

    Alan : ‘Are you saying, that because the vast majority of presbyterians do not believe in the republican dream of a UI, then they must be bigoted? ‘

    Alan, quick answer, absolutely not.

    In my youth there were still thousands of people born in the Island of Ireland who did no agree with a Republican form of Government and once the turmoil of the twenties had passed, they got on with life, ignored The Free State as much as possible and still regarded the King or Queen and their British birth as their true identity.

    Most Southern towns for example had British Legion halls or meeting rooms, yet by in large there was a live and let live attitude between local IRA and Ex-WWI combatants. Indeed both the IRA veterans and themselves got on very well on a personal basis because both had shared a soldiers life, been under fire, seen comrades die and knew the horrors and regrets of war first hand.

    Through cultural activities in England, I frequently meet Irish born and first generation Irish over there who have ‘gone native’. Several branches of my cousins are in this category, some are leading medical people, others business people, all can trace their ancestry back to IRB and Fenian stock who were ‘Out’ in 1867, yet to-day this aspect of their families past is as embarrassing to them as is the fact to some of Southern Unionist background in Fine Gael who have ex-RIC or senior British army in their family tree.

    I hold Nationality to be a matter not alone of both birth but also of choice and apart from preferred political systems or religious beliefs. Ultimately I subscribe to our Celtic Breton Cousins folk saying, ‘ It is not where a man was born is important, it is where he stands and fights that counts’

    Some of my cousins did fight and the remains of those young officers now lie in the fields of France. They were Irish, regarded themselves as nothing other than Irish, yet they fought on England’s side. Their father an MP and only one of five serving MP’s to go to the trenches railed in the Commons right through the War, that Ireland held over 10,000 English men of military age hanging around Irish Seaside resorts and evading call up.

    Who served Britain better these Irishmen who were fully committed to Home Rule, or these English wasters, most ‘well got’ with independent means who hung around the Irish Seaside resorts enjoying the good life while their other British contemporaries were suffering and dying.?

    Sectarianism or Nationalism can be very complex or very simple matters. Hopefully by the time we get to the other side of the WW1 commemorations, we will also have got beneath the gloss and peeled away the many layers of complexities that motivated those born on the Island of Ireland to serve in the British Army. to give us a better understanding of these things.

  • Munsterview

    Between : there are two main, conflicting and often contradicting historical narratives on this Island arising from the two main post Norman Invasion peoples in Ireland.

    The oppressors account and justifications will always be different from the narrative of the oppressed. The polemics regarding Slavery from the descendants of the Slave Owners and The Slaves in the Southern States have two radically different and conflicting perspectives. Over a century and a half ago some even fought a war for the right to keep slaves.

    Some would still justify that but history has passed it’s own verdict. Likewise with Post-Colonial Liberations, when these conflicts were underway there was a successive parade of British Prime Ministers and other Cabinet Ministers at the dispatch box in the Commons and also in the Lords ready to uphold Britain’s right to hold on to these occupied and annexed territories. What contemporary British Statesman would now dare to stand at that same box and say ‘we should have stayed in Rhodesia’ or ‘we should have held Kenya’?

    This summer I met hundreds of students from these Post Colonial countries in a certain UK University during a conference weekend. In the late 19th, century this particular university specialized in producing Colonial Administrators, now in the early 21th, the University speciality is Post Colonial studies to examine the wrongs of those same Colonial Administrators.

    Nothing to do with morality or a change of heart….. just a change of economic circumstances. In the late 19th, century the money was to be made from providing Colonial Administrators, in the early 21th, the money is to be made from educating critics and opponents of the same Colonial Administration.

    That is and always the bottom line with British Colonial Policy….. their god was the god of Commerce not Christianity and nothing have changed there!

    To state this is but to accept the reality of the situation.

    Some from Unionist background such as the late James Simmons and Davie Hammond already referred to and people from the ‘other side’ such as myself are prepared to explore and objectively discuss these things to explore each others viewpoints, try to find common ground and learn from each other.

    Others unfortunately make a fetish of seizing on contradictions and magnifying differences to increase rather than remove misunderstandings. Who was it said that the Devil can cite scripture to suit his own purpose ?

    Speaking of which, given the way this debate is heading, it cannot be too many more posts before the usual spoilers move in to send everyone back to their respective corners and yet another debate will run into sands!

  • Mike the First

    Munsterview

    “Likewise with Post-Colonial Liberations, when these conflicts were underway there was a successive parade of British Prime Ministers and other Cabinet Ministers at the dispatch box in the Commons and also in the Lords ready to uphold Britain’s right to hold on to these occupied and annexed territories. What contemporary British Statesman would now dare to stand at that same box and say ‘we should have stayed in Rhodesia’ or ‘we should have held Kenya’”

    Obviously concepts like democracy, self-determination and the principle of consent mean nothing to you.

  • Mike the First

    Also, for someone who clings to the Provisional republican fairytale version of the Troubles to talk about any “discredited narrative” is rather hilarious.

    Could you clarify (concisely) what exactly you are saying about Northern Irish Presbyterians?

  • Munsterview

    Mike : ‘ Could you clarify (concisely) what exactly you are saying about Northern Irish Presbyterians?’

    No, not really!

    I think that my points are clear enough for anyone attempting to get an genuine understanding of general Republican and Northern Nationalist perspective or ethos.

    I am bringing a New Year resolution forward, I will only respond to serious productive exchanges in future. That will make life easier for me and keep Mick’s itchy fingers off the off the ever-ready packs of cards.

    In fact I would appeal to other Nationalist Republican posters to do likewise and we may get a more focussed, quality debate here. As for ‘Provisional Republican Fairy tale’ almost 50% of the voting electorate have accepted that reality and voted in many instance for Elected Representatives who were part of the Armed Struggle.

    Perhaps when and if you can get your head around that reality, then you will be able to accord your perceived political opponents the respect their electoral mandate is due, if not the elected individuals themselves and their supporters.

  • Barnshee

    “Nothing to do with morality or a change of heart….. just a change of economic circumstances”

    Irish unity in thr north died with the republics economic collapse The death of the euro will bury it

    The change in “economic circumstances” for the Gerrys Martin et al with substantial kudos and perks (not to mention a salary they could never earn legit) sure did help
    ” get an genuine understanding of general Republican and Northern Nationalist perspective or ethos.

  • sonofstrongbow

    Barnshee,

    You are partly correct in that the death of the ‘Celtic Tiger’ (now a rug on the IMF boardroom’s floor) brought into sharp focus the nature of the ‘Ireland’ touting for unity. In essence a failed state in hoc to foreign bankers and homegrown ‘gombeenism’ didlee-deeing from a green mono-cultural past to a green mono-cultural future.

    As for Sinn Fein it has nothing to offer other than sloganeering.

    Any prospect of a developing healthy relationship between the two major political and cultural traditions on the island of Ireland died on the first day the Provos started killing fellow Irish people whilst claiming to be targeting a mythical ‘British Presence’, defined as some sort of regime imposed from outside rather than the reality of their British neighbours in the next street or townland.

  • Mike the First

    Munsterview

    “No, not really!

    I think that my points are clear enough for anyone attempting to get an genuine understanding of general Republican and Northern Nationalist perspective or ethos.”

    Clear? No, your posts on hear are anything but clear. They’re rambling, laced with dubious anecdotes, often pointless in long part, often wildly illogical, filled with iffy “facts” and propagandist waffle, along with a seriously one-dimensional (lack of) understanding of Northern Ireland. Since you mention it.

    Oh, and often insinuations which you can’t/won’t back up – which brings us back to the question of what you’re saying about Northern Irish Presbyterians.

    Oh well, if you had engaged with this particular poster you might have heard about the Northern Irish experience of mixed marriage, and more on Betsy Grey…never mind though!

    “As for ‘Provisional Republican Fairy tale’ almost 50% of the voting electorate have accepted that reality and voted in many instance for Elected Representatives who were part of the Armed Struggle.”

    There you go again with the iffy “facts”. In this case, your pretend “almost 50%” (presumably referring to the SF vote) was in reality 26%, going by this year’s Assembly election.

    Firstly, voting Sinn Féin does not represent buying in to the Provo agitprop version of Troubles history.

    Secondly, I guess going by your logic that means a whopping 74% of the people of Northern Ireland continue to reject said Provo fairy tales – oh dear.

    Thirdly, as usual your fuzzy “logic” is showing – you demand on the basis of SF’s 26% (“almost 50%”…!) of the vote, a recognition of what you call “that reality” – the Provo agitprop tale. Meanwhile, you state that “The Unionist Narrative in the North is now…discredited” – even though Unionist candidates genuinely did win “almost 50%” (40%) of the vote in the last Assembly election.

  • Mike the First

    …not including my vote though – I voted Alliance…

  • Alias

    “Clear? No, your posts on hear are anything but clear. They’re rambling, laced with dubious anecdotes, often pointless in long part, often wildly illogical, filled with iffy “facts” and propagandist waffle, along with a seriously one-dimensional (lack of) understanding of Northern Ireland. Since you mention it.”

    As Homer Simpson said, “It’s funny ’cause its true.”

  • between the bridges

    @MV

    ”Between : there are two main, conflicting and often contradicting historical narratives on this Island arising from the two main post Norman Invasion peoples in Ireland.
    The oppressors, the oppressed.
    Post-Colonial Liberations,
    Post Colonial countries, in producing Colonial Administrators, Post Colonial studies Colonial Administrators.
    Colonial Administrators, Colonial Administration.
    British Colonial Policy,
    Some from Unionist background,
    Others unfortunately make a fetish of seizing on contradictions and magnifying differences to increase rather than remove misunderstandings. ”

    Indeed.

  • Munsterview

    MV 20 Dec@3AM “…Speaking of which, given the way this debate is heading, it cannot be too many more posts before the usual spoilers move in to send everyone back to their respective corners and yet another debate will run into sands!…..”

  • Munsterview

    Mike : ‘….Thirdly, as usual your fuzzy “logic” is showing – you demand on the basis of SF’s 26% (“almost 50%”…!) of the vote, a recognition of what you call “that reality” – the Provo agitprop tale…..’

    MV: what I actually wrote in the post you paraphrased ‘…In fact I would appeal to other Nationalist Republican posters to do likewise and we may get a more focussed, quality debate here. As for ‘Provisional Republican Fairy tale’ almost 50% of the voting electorate have accepted that reality and voted in many instance for Elected Representatives who were part of the Armed Struggle…..’

    ‘… As for ‘Provisional Republican Fairy tale’ almost 50% of the voting electorate have accepted that reality and voted in many instance for Elected Representatives who were part of the Armed Struggle…..’

    My claim that almost 50% of the electorate accepted the reality of the armed struggle, i.e. why the Provos embarked on an Armed Struggle stands. I did not say that almost 50% of the electorate supported Sinn Fein……… I said that in many instances the electorate voted for people who were part of the Armed Struggle. That distinction is apparently beyond your limited grasp.

    On the one hand I am castigated for going into too much detail and explanations, yet as this clearly shows if there is an incorrect way to take up, distort and magnify any apparent generalization it will be done by certain parties.

    Another nasty, childlike trait I notice in this regard, this tendency seems to be exercised in the main by those of Unionist political orientation, but thankfully not all, just the usual culprits who are intent in sidetracking and mischief making whenever the debate seems to delinate common ground or give reasonable clarification of issues under discussion.