GAA lacks sincerity…

The GAA and its members/ proponents (not always the same thing) on a regular basis continue to supply the air waves (and internet waves of course) with endless claims and assertions of how inclusive it is, with particular emphasis on how welcome the Unionist community is within the ranks. Recent events have however reinvigorated the Unionist assessment that the claims are simply a clever cloak. Put bluntly Unionism simply believes much of the murky truth is hidden by maximising ‘spin’ and semantics for the benefit of the media (and more importantly grant awarding bodies).

The factual reality’s to back this belief up are undisputable. It would be a very disingenuous Pomeroy GAA member for example who would currently seriously expect anyone to believe that his Unionist neighbours are welcome in the aforementioned ‘ranks’, and shouldn’t have any concerns about membership.

It has also been suggested recently that Unionists ‘exclude’ themselves from membership. Well another ‘factual reality’ is that you cannot be a member of the GAA and be a Unionist. Existing as a Unionist would simply not be adhering to the Associations ‘ethos‘.

The organisation is NOT simply a sporting one, never has been and never will be. GAA President stated it quite succinctly in his speech at the recent visit of the Queen. The GAA is not about Sport. Sport is only an element. The GAA embodies the:-

mood of the nation, culturally, socially and politically.

The thing is it is a 32 County mood. A mood where Ireland does not control ‘all the national territory’. A mood centred on solely native ‘pastimes’, ‘language’, ‘music’ and ‘dance’. A political mood where Ireland must ‘govern her own affairs’.

Well you know what, the GAA and its members are totally allowed to believe and practise what they want within the limits of the law. No problem. However if there was more sincerity and truth, and less hypocrisy in its ranks maybe there would be a lot less ambivalence towards it by Northern Irelands majority community.

Update: Shane O’Neill’s GAA Camlough to host’ terror fest’ this weekend

  • keano10

    Calm down lads – time for a joke:

    “Following his wonder goal, hundreds of Northern Ireland fans have asked Paddy McCourt for their bullets back, preferably signed…”.

    You gotta laugh… 🙂

  • Nunoftheabove

    BTB

    I very much doubt there’s much missing from your knowledge of self-gratification babes. Unlikely there’s much missing from your hoop either by the looks of it, apart from logic, that is.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Oneill

    Reading back through my earlier post, I realise I was careless. You have (correctly) called me on my earlier statement that nothing should be done about the things that alienate you, as a unionist, from the GAA. That’s what I said, but wasn’t what I meant to say.
    What I meant to say was that I would be strongly against Croke Park claiming to itself the authority it would require in order to stamp out this kind of thing. When it comes to the GAA, I am a committed anarchist; there are, and always have been, little Stalins in the higher echelons of the association, and those of us at club level must always be vigilant in guarding against their centralising tendencies.
    However, I completely agree with the idea that there should be a clear line from Congress, the GAA’s highest and most democratic authority, that events likely to undermine the GAA’s outreach efforts, should not take place on association property. While Croke Park can’t actually stop these things going ahead, it could certainly help make it understood that these things just aren’t cool.
    It will be on a club-by-club basis that change happens. If there was a proposal to host, say, a hunger strike memorial in my club, I would make my opposition very clear to the club committee, as would the vast majority of members, notwithstanding the strong republican convictions of many. Why? Because we take our club very seriously, and won’t allow it to be used as a vehicle by anyone – even a political party or movement widely supported by club members.
    I daresay my club is typical, and clubs that allow political events, are not. There are more than 2,000 clubs in Ireland, of which more than a quarter are in NI. Out of that lot, perhaps half a dozen have been linked with the kind of events that implacable critics like BtB so frequently cite. So there aren’t that many battles to be won. Decent, open-minded, constructive criticism from people of goodwill like yourself and Skinner, are hugely important in bringing about the kind of evolutionary changes you suggest.

    Thank you both, Oneill and Skinner, for your superb contributions to this thread. I hope you will accept my claim that the GAA is dominated from top to bottom by people who are, like you, people of goodwill.

  • between the bridges

    Billy…fair play decent comment. Basically what your saying is don’t let the highly publicized actions of a few detract from the many. nice logic… now get back to me when you practice what you preach…

    Nun it’s the strategy not the tactics that counts…

  • Nunoftheabove

    BTB

    Doesn’t make much difference when your strategy is, as we doctors say, complete bollocks.

  • I daresay my club is typical, and clubs that allow political events, are not. There are more than 2,000 clubs in Ireland, of which more than a quarter are in NI. Out of that lot, perhaps half a dozen have been linked with the kind of events that implacable critics like BtB so frequently cite.

    Billy Pilgrim

    Yes, I realise that and even if they remain, I actually don’t think it will stop a major breakthrough being made one of these days by players from a unionist background into one of the county teams (by sheer demographics probably Down or Antrim).

    I wouldn’t want to over-emphasise a change in attitudes (which are anyway never reflected on Slugger!) but I do see county shirts in the most unexpected places nowadays and the most unexpected people admitting they watch the county games.

    At least some of the present younger generation are probably the first to see their fathers content to watch their county (admittedly still on the telly) and as they get older they will be putting pressure on them to take them to a local club either to play or watch. Next thing will be a role model emerging, then who knows?!

  • between the bridges

    Nun…as usual you bring nunthing but petty vindictiveness to the debate, why bother? hang your head in shame and then proceed with the self gratification…

  • ranger1640

    Pitty the GAA do not have these as their Aims, but this foreign sport as the GAA describe it. Have clearly set out a full set of criteria.

    The ECB is fully committed to the principles of equality of opportunity and aims to ensure that no individual receives less favourable treatment on the grounds of age, gender, disability, race, ethnic origin, nationality, colour, parental or marital status, pregnancy, religious belief, class or social background, sexual preference or political belief. This includes job applicants, employees, participants, volunteers and spectators.

    The ECB will ensure that there will be open access to all those who wish to participate in all aspects of cricket and that they are treated fairly.

    The ECB specifically supports initiatives by other organisations within cricket which recognise the principles of equality of opportunity and treatment such as the International Cricket Council Anti-Racism Policy and the Professional Cricketers Association’s Racism Awareness Campaign.

  • Turgon

    Fundamentally Billy Pilgrim’s explanation is that most GAA members and clubs are jolly decent, non sectarian chaps and organisations who would like to reach out to their unionist neighbours but that a small minority of people spoil these attempts.

    There may be a grain of truth in this especially in the RoI and maybe certain parts of Northern Ireland. The problem seems to be that this decent majority (if it exists) seems either too ineffectual or too cowardly or too something to prevent assorted terrorist worship events. This is the GAA’s problem. They cannot really expect unionists to regard them as non sectarian and open whilst they have this problem and singularly fail to tackle it.

    Clearly this can be turned round on the unionist community and fingers can be pointed at bands etc. However, there is a grave problem for Billy Pilgrim claiming that the GAA are really trying to reach out and yet simultaneously for him to denounce unionist organisations. After all this is the same Billy Pilgrim who described the RUC as Nazis.

    Now if a unionist described the GAA as a Nazi organisation (I certainly do not) then the likes of Billy Pilgrim would denounce them and probably refuse to debate the issue. Yet having said exactly that about the RUC Billy Pilgrim then expects people to give him and the GAA the benefit of the doubt and accept his and their bone fides.

  • JR

    Most GAA members and clubs are jolly decent, non sectarian chaps and organisations who are ambivalent to their unionist neighbours.

    I think that hits the nail on the head for me.

  • Charminator

    Turgon, the GAA is not a paramilitary police force that was discredited and eventually disbanded by its own government and is not investigated on an annual basis regarding collusion.

    A wee bit of proportion here.

    Other aspects of what you say, however, I can recognise. Yes, there may be isolated clubs where this happens. But do you, for example, give equal proportion in your analysis to what the GAA is actually trying to do to improve cross-community relations, such as the Cúchulainn Cup, something endorsed by the Uachtarán, Ulster Council and all County Boards in the North??

    http://www.uniteagainsthate.org.uk/uncategorized/ulster-gaa-unite-against-hate-cuchulainn-cup/

    I said before that I would be surprised if any major sporting organisation in the North had not had members who had been implicated (and impacted… GAA members have been murdered for their sporting affiliations too, remember) in the Troubles. They were emotionally-charged times, the numbers of people involved alone would even suggest this.

    I’m all for shining a light on where the GAA can improve and granted, isolated clubs – on the rare occasions these things happen – should be hauled before the Ulster Council and asked to account for them. But where is the equal coverage of the positive work of the GAA in promoting cross-community harmony, as other Unionists, such as Trevor Ringland have recognised.

  • Turgon

    JR,
    I agree. The point is in many ways I feel the GAA should stop trying to reach out to unionists in the context of the GAA. I am sure individual members have friendships with prods (well I know they do: I have a number of friends who have been or are involved in the GAA).

    The point is that to continue their outreach and be acceptable to many unionists the GAA will have to ditch many of the values they see to hold dear. I would much prefer that they just did their own thing and allowed me to do mine. I would prefer they did not claim to be representing me when they play for their county nor ask me to show and interest. If they are behaving in a non violent and decent fashion I am entirely happy. I just wish they would stop pretending that most / all unionists save mad bigots are actually GAA fans: few in actual fact are.

    I would prefer they did not name grounds after murderers or celebrate dead terrorists but if tehy want to I am not especially bothered. I do not want, however, to be somehow expected to pretend that when this happens it is not happening, se no evil and take part in the pretence that this is anything other than a tribal nationalist organisation; an Irish gaelic cultural and sporting organisation which is institutionally nationalist in its outlook and is not especially interested in changing to accomodate unionists.

    I think this is a case where a degree of benign Apartheid is reasonable using Apartheid in a technical fashion to denote separateness. Maybe better would be to see it as a honest and genuninely equal version of “Separate but equal.”

  • BloodThunder

    I don’t think anybody would ever suggest that every person involved in the GAA is in it purely for political gratification. Plenty of GAA adherents are in it for the love of the sport and the social enjoyment this brings. However, there is a not insignificant element in Northern Ireland in particular who are, at best, passive, and at worst, active supporters of the GAA’s role in commemorating terrorists. The GAA cannot be taking seriously by democratic society until it sheds its links with violent politics.

  • ranger1640

    Here is an interesting wee snip-it, will our sports minister Carol Cullen be taking action???

    “Suspected associations between GAA members and republicans are also said to have deepened mistrust.[65][66] Two incidents of hunger strike commemorations on GAA grounds drew criticism from unionists, even though these events were not officially approved by the GAA.[67][68][69][70] In response to one such incident, the Northern Ireland Assembly passed a motion calling on the Minister of Culture, Arts and Leisure to ensure that no sports club that facilitates a commemoration or glorification of terrorism receives financial support through his Department, either directly or indirectly”.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaelic_Athletic_Association#The_parish_rule

  • JR

    Well Turgon, we agree at last. However I don’t know where you got the impression that the GAA are reaching out to Unionists. I think any posative changes with regard to distancing themselves from politics have come from within.

  • between the bridges

    charm…progress indeed ‘The Cúchulainn Teams are made-up of fourth year boys and girls who do not currently play gaelic games’…. four years in six teams take part in a competition named after a gealic warrior famous for his battle rage…

  • Turgon

    JR,
    I am sure that any agreement between us is as loathsome to you as it is to me. As such I will not admit to it provided you agree not to do so either.

    Oh no that would involve another topic of agreement between us.

  • Charminator

    Thanks Between the Bridges.

    “charm…progress indeed ‘The Cúchulainn Teams are made-up of fourth year boys and girls who do not currently play gaelic games’…. four years in six teams take part in a competition named after a gealic warrior famous for his battle rage…”

    It’s not a numbers-game for the GAA, I’m sure. It’s about meaningful engagement and trying, as best as possible, to ensure a welcoming environment exists for those Unionists who may choose to play our Games.

    As for the naming of the event, I think you appreciate it was because of Cúchulainn’s identity.

    But I think your answer actually sums it up: you’re likely not the sort to be “reached out” to by the GAA and let’s let matters lie there.

    As for others, the positive comments of Trevor Ringland, John McCallister, and others is always welcomed. The Queen’s visit too: surely your own Sovereign (whom you’re supposed to be “loyal” to) wouldn’t visit the headquarters of an association “linked to violent politics”, as I think BloodThunder called it.

  • Charminator

    On a related point, if the Queen – the Head of the British Armed Forces and to whom they profess their loyalty, the same military that obviously suffered most at the hands of the PIRA and others, can visit Croke Park and inquisitively enquire about the game of hurling, it’s a strange, strange world when “her subjects” here (those claiming to profess loyalty to her too) claim that she was, in fact, only visiting the headquarters of some sort of terrorist-endorsing association.

    Such an insult to throw at HM and her Government for advising her on it. Ridiculous really. And I’m sure forward-looking Unionists, like Trevor Ringland, would acknowledge this too.

  • BloodThunder

    On a related point, if the Queen – the Head of the British Armed Forces and to whom they profess their loyalty, the same military that obviously suffered most at the hands of the PIRA and others, can visit Croke Park and inquisitively enquire about the game of hurling, it’s a strange, strange world when “her subjects” here (those claiming to profess loyalty to her too) claim that she was, in fact, only visiting the headquarters of some sort of terrorist-endorsing association.

    Such an insult to throw at HM and her Government for advising her on it. Ridiculous really. And I’m sure forward-looking Unionists, like Trevor Ringland, would acknowledge this too.’

    The fact that GAA officials from Northern Ireland refused to take up the invitation to Croke Park for the Queen’s visit proves our point. The GAA up here is a different kettle of fish to that down south.

  • Charminator

    BloodThunder:

    “The fact that GAA officials from Northern Ireland refused to take up the invitation to Croke Park for the Queen’s visit proves our point. The GAA up here is a different kettle of fish to that down south.”

    Broad over-generalisation. And, you should also check your sources. At least one county from the North did officially attend, and at least two others had “informal” representation there as well. In fact, Gaels who have a look at coverage should be able to spot some of the personalities.

    Consistently, the Cúchulainn Cup, has been endorsed by the Uachtarán, Ulster Council and all County Boards in the North.

    http://www.uniteagainsthate.org.uk/uncategorized/ulster-gaa-unite-against-hate-cuchulainn-cup/

    Iar-Uachtarán, Jack Boothman, is a practising member of the Church of Ireland. Rightly, his faith has never got in the way of his commitment to the GAA or the GAA’s massive appreciation of him.

    Ireland’s full of contradictions and complexities and always has been. I’m not suggesting the GAA’s perfect: it certainly isn’t. But unwarranted comparisons to the RUC have no place in a reasonable dialogue about this.

    As I’ve said before, I suspect ALL major sporting organisations in the North had members implicated in the Troubles, given the emotionally-charged environment of the time and the sheer numbers involved. But I don’t think sitting spouting waffle about being “linked to violence politics” at the same time that even HM visited the Association’s headquarters is reasonable, balanced, or true.

  • Paulk

    I’m new to slugger, but felt the need to comment on this subject, in my opinion the GAA was set up as a vehicle to promote an independent Irish sports and culture (be it music, dancing, or the irish language), there is no need to apologise for this or defend it – it is its raison d’etre.
    These type of events don’t do anything to reach out to the unionist community (and i condemn it) but whether you choose to believe it or not these events happen in a minority of clubs. A unionist can play in 99% of any of the clubs in RoI or NI and nothing will ever happen to them because of their political beliefs but they should realise they are playing a sport for an association designed to promote an Irish culture/ethos.

  • BloodThunder

    It’s not about individuals being linked with things they shouldn’t have been – sadly that is always going to the case in a conflict ridden territory like Northern Ireland. The fact of the matter is that the GAA appear to be hosting events that celebrate terrorists. Nobody is beating themselves up over the fact that there may be former Provos, current dissidents amongst GAA enthusiasts. The question people are asking is why the organisation continues to turn a blind eye to events that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

  • Charminator

    Thanks BloodThunder.

    And what I’m saying is that some folk won’t fact-check things properly and hence will say no Northern counties were represented at the Queen’s visit: when, in actual fact, they were.

    Some will completely and utterly ignore the moves the GAA have made – as an organisation from the top down – to promote cross-community relations below.

    http://www.uniteagainsthate.org.uk/uncategorized/ulster-gaa-unite-against-hate-cuchulainn-cup/

    And, instead of focusing on the actual “mind” of the GAA, the individuals who administer and run the Association will instead focus on isolated, which even across the North, are irregular and rare.

    In fact, there are other instances where the GAA HAVE actually blocked their premises hosting political events. Will the Ulster Council take a look at this? Likely. Will it matter to some Unionists who have absolutely no interest in the GAA anyway, have no more hope of joining it than they do attending Croke Park to watch our Games, and instead are more focused on “hunting” for the next nonsense headline about the Association. No, it won’t matter a jot.

  • RepublicanStones

    Im from Pomeroy. I think its wrong of Na Pluinceidí to host this event. I have no problem saying so.

    I also understand why Seamus volunteered. I have no problem saying so.

  • west-east

    Charminator
    As I’ve said before, I suspect ALL major sporting organisations in the North had members implicated in the Troubles, given the emotionally-charged environment of the time and the sheer numbers involved. But I don’t think sitting spouting waffle about being “linked to violence politics” at the same time that even HM visited the Association’s headquarters is reasonable, balanced, or true.

    Ironic statement you could use this defence in many an argument across Northern Ireland

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Turgon

    I claim to speak for no-one but myself.

    You are a nasty piece of work, Turgon.

    That is no-one’s opinion but my own.

  • Turgon

    Billy Pilgrim,
    I could regard that as man playing but from the likes of you I am more inclined to wear it as a badge of honour. I would much rather that than you lauding my contributions as “superb”.

    It seems that neither between the bridges nor I would make it to your list of ‘approved unionist commentators’ as noted above by between the bridges.

  • augustiner hell

    Repstones
    Saying you understand why he volunteered implies you understand the consequences of volunteering, one of which was pulling the trigger on unstable, inaccurate, home made mortars in the vicinity of a school.
    Having read a number of your posts on slugger I actually doubt you would view such an action in the cold light of day with much understanding.
    More understandable is that you are simply defending a local man known to you.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Turgon

    I wish to avoid all further interaction with you. Please desist from addressing me, or my posts.

  • Turgon

    Billy Pilgrim,
    If you wish to avoid your own interaction with me then you can easily achieve this by the simple device of not responding. Unfortunately you are unable to prevent me from noting and responding to your comments. If that is what you mean by avoiding interaction I am afraid that is not going to happen.

    I suspect there are a number of posters both republican and loyalist who do not particularly like me commenting on or analysing their comments. That is not the way things work on slugger.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Of course I cannot prevent you. I simply ask that you respect my wishes. Any person fit for human society would do so. A person who would not is called a stalker.

  • Turgon

    Sorry nothing doing on that score. Indeed I am not fit for human society: I am a unionist.

  • son of sam

    In the midst of all this what-about-ery,I never see reference to a neighbouring club of Pomeroy Plunketts ie Beragh Red Knights.Around the time of the murder of Const Ronan Kerr they exemplified all that is best in G A A clubs.In terms of integrity and leadership, they have always shown the way refusing to be colonized by the disciplesof Sinn Fein and ploughing a straight path.

  • babyface finlayson

    I don’t post here very often, but should I do so I most certainly do not want anyone of any persuasion to reply to my posts. If I thought that people might reply to my posts I would be very upset…I’ m stood standing here..upset I am.

  • PeterBrown

    “I am making notes, Turgon, and your name will go on the list; and when we win the war you will be brought to account.”

    Only Dad’s Army was supposed to be comedy – not just comical

  • RepublicanStones

    Augustiner Troll, I appreciate your sentiment but disagree with your inference. Growing up in that area and therefore experiencing British security forces, I’ll say it again, I understand why Seamus volunteered.

  • Turgon

    So Billy Pilgrim thinks that someone arguing with him on the internet is comparable to that person being a mass murderer. That is a pretty impressive example of lack of perspective. It is also one of the most impressive bits of man playing I have seen.

  • RepublicanStones

    Can i apologize to Augustiner Hell. I was using my iphone with cracked screen and I don’t know how, but ‘Hell’ appeared to look like ‘Troll’. I was not using it as ad hominem. Sorry.

  • Billy Pilgrim

    Turgon

    The obsessiveness is unhealthy. It also shows a startling lack of manners, as well as basic social skills. Why do you keep bringing up a thread from several years ago? And why do you keep lying about the substance of that thread?

  • lamhdearg

    “gealic warrior famous for his battle rage” Cuchulain was Cruthin.

  • Charminator

    East West:

    You commented that my statement:
    “As I’ve said before, I suspect ALL major sporting organisations in the North had members implicated in the Troubles, given the emotionally-charged environment of the time and the sheer numbers involved. But I don’t think sitting spouting waffle about being “linked to violence politics” at the same time that even HM visited the Association’s headquarters is reasonable, balanced, or true.”

    is an….

    “Ironic statement you could use this defence in many an argument across Northern Ireland.”

    Yes, it good be used as an argument for many associations, no one ever said a defence though. It’s an appeal to look forward, rather than trawling back. Now, of course, if on the other hand we want to have a Truth and Reconciliation Commission with wide-ranging powers to probe and investigate all manner of developments during the Troubles, then fine – let’s probe the GAA as much as anyone else. In the meantime, as I suggested earlier, comparing the GAA to the RUC – a paramilitary police force which was disbanded due to its impartiality and the recognition of its own Govt that it could not be rebranded – is neither reasonable, balanced, or true.

  • Charminator

    Lamhdearg says:

    “gealic warrior famous for his battle rage” Cuchulain was Cruthin.

    Yes, but a common Ulster identity – like your red hand. Surely that effort by the GAA can be recognised simply for what it is – to find something that may be common in both cultures and traditions – rather than meeting such genuine efforts with some sort of puerile notion that the name was chosen due to its battle rage.

  • between the bridges

    Charm… i think lamhderg was correcting my orginal post, (and I thank him for the history lesson!) re the naming of the event as this is an ‘outreach’, prehaps the something along the lines of ‘ulster community cup’ would have been better? Is the Ulster final promoted under a Gaelic title? or is that another puerile notion of mine…

  • Charminator

    Between the Bridges:

    I suspect the GAA, like a great many others – and seemingly also reflected in Loyalist murals – believed that Cúchulainn was a figure in Ulster folklore, common to both identities.

    http://www.virtualbelfastmuraltour.com/cuchulainn-loyalist-mural.htm

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/ethomsen/5466178063/

    Perhaps you might explain to me why Loyalist murals feel comfortable using this name, but it isn’t acceptable to what I would have considered more moderate elements of Unionist opinion?

  • between the bridges

    Charminator… I am somewhat unqualified to reply, never having painted a mural, nor completely sure of what your definition is of ‘moderate elements of Unionist opinion’?
    however my (somewhat labored by now) puerile point was why bother with a gealic title for an ‘outreach’ program? Particularly if (you haven’t confirmed?) the major event/s are promoted by english language title/s? ulster final, championship, all ireland?

  • Charminator

    Thanks Between the Bridges.

    My reply really was rather simple: Cúchulainn seems to have gained an appreciable acceptance in both communities as a mythic figure, as demonstrated by the mural.

    I would respectfully suggest that whatever else about painting murals or moderate Unionist opinions, if a depiction of Cúchulainn is acceptable on the Shankhill Road, it is not unreasonable of the GAA to believe that he was precisely the sort of figure who transcends the community divide and would be an appropriate icon for such an “outreach” programme.

    If Cúchulainn’s Irish name is a problem, or somehow inconsistent with promoting an “outreach” programme to individuals of a similar community background to those who painted the Loyalist Cúchulainn mural, then I think we’re simply just operating at different levels of logic here.

    I fail to see how a young Loyalist lad could object to the name Cúchulainn when precisely the same name is painted on a mural on the Shankhill Road. I think that if the GAA were hoping to engage in a sincere effort of promoting outreach with Unionist/Loyalist communities, then a mythic Ulster figure who gained sufficient acceptability to feature on a mural on the Shankhill Road is also acceptable enough to be associated with such outreach.

    Now, if Unionists and Loyalists cannot agree on who is too Irish or who has a Gaelic name and shouldn’t be associated with Unionist/Loyalist culture etc, that’s a separate matter. The GAA cannot be whipped for its genuine outreach efforts because some Unionists disagree with some Loyalists’ characterisation of Cúchulainn as an Ulster folk hero, merely because of the Gaelic nature of his name.

  • JR

    BTB,
    Would hound of Ulster have been any better. Or maybe ‘tha dag o tha nurth’

  • Eddie (Eamonn) Mac Bhloscaidh

    Sorry to be pedantic but of course Cú Chuilinn does translate as ‘Hound of Ulster’. That is a myth.

  • Eddie (Eamonn) Mac Bhloscaidh

    Meant Cú Chulainn – whoops

  • between the bridges

    charminator, all very well and good, if everyone has the historical knowledge, how many do? to take your example of a ‘young loyalist lad’ could it be possible that he would see the major events promoted on TV etc in english and then wonder why the ‘outreach’ designed (primarily?) to attract him carries a gealic title?
    of course my first thought for an outreach to a ‘young republican lad’ would be to think of a catchy ulster-scots title…

  • between the bridges

    JR…indeed

  • Charminator

    Thanks Between the Bridges.

    You comment that it’s “all very well and good if everyone has the historical knowledge, how many do?”

    I hope you’re not expecting the GAA to engage in history lessons and promote an educational vocation, as well as sports!

    But like I’ve said, if Unionists and Loyalists cannot seem to agree on who is too Irish or who has a Gaelic name and shouldn’t be associated with Unionist/Loyalist culture etc, that’s certainly not a matter for the GAA to involve itself in.

    If Cúchulainn’s Irish name is a problem, or somehow inconsistent with promoting an “outreach” programme to individuals of a similar community background to those who painted the Loyalist Cúchulainn mural, then I think we’re operating at different levels of logic here.

    The idea that it’s ok for Cúchulainn to appear on a Loyalist mural, but not for the GAA to use him as a figure for cross-community programmes because he’s “too Gaelic” seems a little hard to believe. Now I don’t know what the people on the Shankhill Road think, but if Cúchulainn’s name is so objectionable, then I really cannot understand why such a Loyalist community would include him on a mural in the first place.

  • between the bridges

    Charm… re hashing your reply still doesn’t answer my question…

    as for ‘if Unionists and Loyalists cannot seem to agree on who is too Irish or who has a Gaelic name’,

    well excuse me! If the GAA cannot seem to agree on which competitions to name in english, gealic, or after ira men…

  • Mark McGregor

    btb,

    All GAA competitions are named bilingually. Though I’ve only heard of the Ulster Football Championship cup (not the competition) refered to as the Anglo-Celt cup.

  • Eddie (Eamonn) Mac Bhloscaidh

    emmm…

    Cumann Luthchleas GAEL / GAELIC athletic association.

  • Charminator

    Between the Bridges:

    Apologies if you feel it’s rehashing any reply, but I’m sure you don’t need my assistance to check on the internet this information. As has been commented elsewhere GAA competitions tend to be as often referred to by the relevant cup, as the competition itself.

    But I really don’t see the relevance to explaining Cúchulainn. The point remains that if he was good enough for a mural on the Shankhill Road and similarly a statue in the GPO, then frankly he’s one of very few mythical figures that all of Ulster can claim as part of their heritage. This – I suspect – was why the GAA affiliated the competition with him. Plain and simple.

    And if you – or others – feel that Cúchulainn is some sort of Gaelicized hero whom no one else can (or should with appropriate history instructions) take anything to do with, then I suggest you explain that to the relevant portion of the Unionist/Loyalist community.

    Frankly, I think you have a rather weak case: complaining about naming a cup after an individual who appears on a mural in the Shankhill Road on the basis that his name is objectionable – when that very community in question, the sort the GAA would like to at least “try” and make sincere efforts to reach out to – seem to have no problem whatsoever with the name.

  • Charminator

    Mark McGregor:

    Quite right re competitions named in both languages – like everything in the GAA, though I would suggest a predominance of Irish perhaps in the vocab (like Ard Stiúrthóir – far more often referred to in Irish, rather than English translation).

    Re the Anglo-Celt – isn’t that because it was initially sponsored by the Cavan weekly of the same name? Bit like the Irish Press Cup for the All-Ireland Minor Hurlers, even though of course the Irish Press is (like much else) a part of history.

  • Mark McGregor

    Charminator,

    What is the name on the USHC cup?

    Many would say Antrim! 😉

    (Forgive me that one, we don’t win often apart from that)

  • Charminator

    I have to confess I didn’t know, but I see it’s the Liam Harvey Cup. Leinster I did and Munster’s not exactly challenging to remember (Munster Hurling Cup), but there you go…

    But re Antrim, they’ll be hunting for the O’Keeffe Cup these days (with being in Leinster now sure.). 🙂 It seems there’s only so many provincial titles you can clock up before Congress give the system a good shake!

  • Mick Fealty

    Kevin,

    When you are finished, have a read of the rules at the bottom of the site. Keep the nasty racialist stereotypes to the necessary minimum. If you have aproblem with Q, or Dundalk, or Dundalk IT for accepting non Republican students, then take it somewhere else!!

  • augustiner hell

    Repstones,
    no problem, apology accepted. Was away, sorry for taken so long to reply. I grew up less than 10 mile from you (70’s teen), so suffered the same vcps and checks as you did probably. Some soldiers were less than friendly but on the whole nothing ever happened that warranted killing anyone. Your experience may be different, it would interest me to hear what it was they did to you.