Queen’s visit: Affirmation of Irish independence (and Constitution)…

I’ve a piece in today’s Guardian on the visit of the Queen to Dublin, which began yesterday. At the heart of the matter, I argue that yes, it is historic, and yes it may be cathartic.

But I also that by and large, despite some deft handling and framing of the event by Belfast born President, Mary McAleese, this visit is very much for the benefit of the Irish people of the 26 counties, rather than those of us living in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Here’s the last two paragraphs:

…this is not to be a joyful occasion, there is little enough cause for that in the country at this time. But instead it will be both a formal and a respectful one. In her visit to Dublin’s Garden of Remembrance today she paid homage to the violent origins of the Irish state’s earlier struggles to win its independence from her grandfather, George V. At the Islandbridge Memorial to those thousands of Irishmen who died in the service of the British army, the nation may take a moment to reflect on its long and complex ties both with the other island, and that disembodied northern part of itself still represented by this visiting head of state.

More important, I suspect, it will be about the Republic putting on a stately show of sovereignty at a time when many citizens are struggling to retain their belief in its hard-won independence.

We should not underestimate the power of ceremony, not least the ‘gunna scréach’ of Irish cannon launched in honour of a British Head of State… The Irish President has had her day in the sun, and the Constitution one of its few, if only fleetingly, powerful moments in the public gaze of its people.

And for the record, RTE’s report on the visit to An Gairdín Cuimhneacháin:

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  • granni trixie

    Nothing against the Royals but they are usually of little interest to me. I was moved however by the act of the visit for a reason other than those mentioned above:it demonstrates that the Queen and other Royals are prepared to try to “be friends” even though as is sometimes forgotten,the Troubles impacted personally on the Royal family like people in other walks of life – death the great leveller. In this sense the Queens visit contributes to reconciliation and healing.

  • Mick,

    I enjoyed reading your article. You said “The Irish President has had her day in the sun”. Is it just one day though?

    I would just like to pay a tribute to the President.

    When she came to office, she said that the theme of her Presidency was “building bridges.” She certainly achieved that yesterday but she has also been doing it “in spadeloads” throughout her presidency, albeit quietly and with great dignity. She, in particular, is to be credited with the very recent repossession by Irish people of the memory of their war dead during World War I. If that had not happened, you probably would not have seen Margaret Ritchie wearing a poppy a few months ago.

    She may well yet be remembered as a great Irish President.

  • I have no time for royalty but I was impressed by yesterdays ceremonial it showed a rare and very impressive side of Ireland. One of my neighbours said ‘we don’t have the stately homes that the British have’. I disagree with that we do have the stately homes and castles but we don’t make enough of that side of Ireland, almost as though we have been taught to think they are not ours. As if if its not a white washed cottage with no facilities its not Irish!

    The other thing is I think GT is right I don’t care for royalty and I definitely didn’t care for Mountbatten but the queen and her family did, they lost him and others and members of their family were wounded. So there may be genuine fellow feeling for the victims.

  • Drumlins Rock

    The day the Republic grew up. Reading all this you think it is all new, but many times before the Queen has paid tribute to those who have wrestled independence from her ancestors Empire, most of them gained it long after Ireland, within Her Majesty’s own reign.
    It was Ireland (under Dev’s leadership mainly) who decided to create a phony war, and clung onto past grievances long after other countries have moved on. Manufacturing false differences and purges of “foreign influence” when in fact Ireland had as much claim on these things as England.
    I remember visiting Turkey a few years ago, and being told don’t get your passport stamped if you can help it as Greece and Turkey still don’t get on, they too maintained a phony war, but are the exception, despite many other countries having far greater grievances against each other, most English people would be shocked to know such resentment exists in Ireland still, but would shrug their shoulders and say get on with it, maybe after this visit the Irish Nation will.
    To finish, on Saturday night I had some friends over, and Eurovision was on, included in the group was three North Americans, it was fun explaining the political voting, where countries generally vote for their neighbours, when the UK voted they therefore correctly guessed they would give Ireland 12 points, as normally happens, when Ireland came to vote they therefore presumed the favoured would be returned, it wasn’t, as normally happens. Having listened to a selection they understood the quality of the song was irrelevant, and were therefore shocked when I explained Ireland still has a petty grudge against Britain.
    Hopefully in light of the visit next year in Azerbijan the war will be over and the full 12 comes to the UK.

  • Neil

    Having listened to a selection they understood the quality of the song was irrelevant, and were therefore shocked when I explained Ireland still has a petty grudge against Britain.

    You should have indulged your love of history and mentioned how they did last year and the year before. Just so they know that it’s not just Ireland who ‘holds a grudge’ but the rest of Europe as well.

    I would argue the point on the rest of your post but your view of history is as jaded by your background as mine is so there’s not much point.

  • Mick Fealty

    [Tap, tap] Constitution boys and girls, constitution!

  • Drumlins Rock

    Mick the only time you hear of the Irish Constitution is when they have yet another referendum to change it, to be really cruel this week could be the Zenith of the Republic’s international status, putting the flag on the sandcastle even thought the tide turned long ago and is lapping at the foundations.

  • DR,

    “despite many other countries having far greater grievances against each other, most English people would be shocked to know such resentment exists in Ireland still, but would shrug their shoulders and say get on with it, maybe after this visit the Irish Nation will”

    ..just as they were very shocked when the news rolled out, after the war, that the Germans had executed about 6 million innocent Jews.

    Some would argue that the retention of Northern Ireland made it very difficult for Ireland to “move on” as many would have liked it. Some would also say that sectarianism is the unseen destructive force as it is between Greece and Turkey.

    Moreover, you can not say that there are no other places in the World where no grudge is held against the British after their involvement in a country.

    Zimbabwe may be too young a country to be a proper example but Arab states still hold a grudge against Britain and other European States because of the crusades. Nor is Britain without its own so – called petty grudges. Why was the Emperor of Japan not represented at the Royal Wedding?

    Let us just be thankful that yesterday, at least, we were at a happy place.

  • The Irish constitution has more holes than the proverbial colander. If people concentrated on that they would have to wonder how so many politicians etc have managed to fleece the country of so much with, in spite of long and expensive investigations, not a charge against them.

    Surely this is not the time for that. I think the one thing the Brits have is that no matter how bad things are there is their foundation, shown in their case by their royalty. In our case its shown by the Presidency and so far on this occasion the Presidency is presenting Ireland with pride, compassion and friendship, and even with pomp and ceremony to match the Brits!

    .

  • Sorry, I forgot the at the end of the quotation marks in my last comment. Would you mind fixing that Mick

  • AGlassOfHine

    Irish Independence……………now dependant on Europe.

    Indeed,this * sovereign state* invites The Sovereign. Good times,and good to see. Maybe now dear old Ireland can throw off the self made shackles of eternal victim and drag itself into the Twenty-First Century ? ( with a lot of help )

    Two neighbours shaking hands over the back fence………….just a matter of keeping the naughty children in order now. 😉

  • “[Tap, tap] Constitution boys and girls, constitution!”

    Mick, you make no mention of the Constitution in your Guardian article. What point are you trying to make?

  • qwerty12345

    Hey Drumlins,

    isnt it funny how people like you have the gall to talk about nations “growing up” when you spend your summers still marching around the 17th century.

    Mote and beam, or didnt you go to sunday school?

    As for your petty Eurovision talk, uh I think the reason that Ireland’s shame got 12 points from the UK is more to do with X factor and teenage girls.

  • Alias

    It’s probably ‘catharic’ for Ms McAleese and ilk who fret and fuss about such matters. Being politically impotent, she has to work the symbolism as a means of exheeding her limited constitutional remit. Sadly, for all the effort and expense, it is symbolic of nothing beyond the mundanely obvious.

    The more interesting aspect is how conspicuously underwhelmed the Irish are by Ms Windsor’s visit. That is a bound to be a major disappointment to those proffering a ‘shared future’ with Britishness, and so the visit will probably prove counterproductive to their agenda in the long run – that is, if anyone remembers it three months from now.

    Perhaps they will find some “growing up” and “maturity” by pondering the apparent reality that the Irish are not irridendist and don’t actually long for reunion with the ‘motherland’ contrary to their deluded campaign.

  • Nunoftheabove

    I enjoyed the “Mick Fealty – is that the author or the caption?” comment in The Guardian comments after MF’s piece 🙂

  • qwerty12345

    Nice to see Her Majesty honoring fallen Irish Republicans, and If I may admit it, nice to see the uneasiness of the unionist bile merchants 🙂

  • Neil

    The more interesting aspect is how conspicuously underwhelmed the Irish are by Ms Windsor’s visit. That is a bound to be a major disappointment to those proffering a ‘shared future’ with Britishness, and so the visit will probably prove counterproductive to their agenda in the long run – that is, if anyone remembers it three months from now.

    Nice dose of realism there. Given that by and large no one can get within a mile of the queen, and that they’ve sealed the manholes and taped up the post boxes, all the talk of ‘look how far we’ve come’ seems somewhat premature. If she’d visited in 1979 the security operation would have been very similar I’d wager.

  • Nunoftheabove

    …but if you insist on keeping it constitutional, how about firming up some of Article 45’s provisions in order to give them full court cognisability, hmmmm ?

    “The State shall strive to promote the welfare of the whole people by securing and protecting as effectively as it may a social order in which justice and charity shall inform all the institutions of the national life”
    .
    2. The State shall, in particular, direct its policy towards securing:

    i. That the citizens (all of whom, men and women equally, have the right to an adequate means of livelihood) may through their occupations find the means of making reasonable provision for their domestic needs.

    ii. That the ownership and control of the material resources of the community may be so distributed amongst private individuals and the various classes as best to subserve the common good.

    iii. That, especially, the operation of free competition shall not be allowed so to develop as to result in the concentration of the ownership or control of essential commodities in a few individuals to the common detriment.

    iv. That in what pertains to the control of credit the constant and predominant aim shall be the welfare of the people as a whole.

    v. That there may be established on the land in economic security as many families as in the circumstances shall be practicable.

    3. 1° The State shall favour and, where necessary, supplement private initiative in industry and commerce.

    2° The State shall endeavour to secure that private enterprise shall be so conducted as to ensure reasonable efficiency in the production and distribution

    If they did that and lost all of the demeaning, servile Almighty God silliness from it then there might be the makings of a document worth debating. And at least a genuine republic not quite as embarrassed to consider itself so as it appears to now be.

  • Alias

    Neil, there are plenty of places to get close. No one is bothering.

  • Alias

    Of course, if I’m wrong, you can post pics of the disappointed masses being turned back – and the special buses laid on or extra train tickets sold to bring the excited hordes to the city. I suspect there are none.

  • Nunoftheabove

    Again, this is where the voice of the press and the thoughts of the commonsense majority of the public are at variance. Let’s even suppose that most people in the free state are neutral-to-positive about the visit (after all, we don’t appear to have strong evidence that this isn’t the case…not yet, anyway).

    What on earth, could anybody tell me, would incline them towards going out onto the street and perhaps travelling some distance to demonstrate such feelings ? What is/was there to see ? What would be the purpose ? There’s not much to see, nothing interesting to hear, nothing much to be said, just….nothing much of anything other than a lot of this silly exaggerated press projection into a thoroughly nondescript event. If Jacob Zuma turned up tomorrow would they expect throngs of enthusiastic citizens to spontaneously spill out onto the public highways waving their arms around, cheering and hollering excitedly as he was driven at speed up the street waving ?

    Get real people

  • sdelaneys

    Now that the old queen has visited Guinness’s the following may or may not be appropriate to the occasion.

    The fall by Fergus Allen.

    The Garden of Eden (described in the bible)
    Was Guinness’s brewery (mentioned by Joyce),
    Where innocent Adam and Eve were created
    And dwelt from necessity rather than choice;

    For nothing existed but Guinness’s brewery,
    Guinness’s brewery occupied all,
    Guinness’s brewery everywhere, anywhere-
    Woe that expulsion succeeded the fall!

    The ignorant pair were encouraged in drinking
    Whatever they fancied whenever they could,
    Except for the porter or stout which embodied
    Delectable knowledge of Evil and Good.

    In Guinness’s brewery, innocent, happy,
    They tended the silos and coppers and vats,
    They polished the engines and coopered the barrels
    And even made pets of the brewery rats.

    One morning when Adam was brooding and brewing
    It happened that Eve had gone off on her own,
    When a serpent like ivy slid up to her softly
    And murmured seductively, Are we alone?

    O Eve, said the serpent, I beg you to sample
    A bottle of Guinness’s excellent stout,
    Whose nutritive qualities no one can question
    And stimulant properties no one can doubt.

    It’s tonic, enlivening, strengthening, heartening,
    Loaded with vitamins, straight from the wood,
    And further enriched with the not undesirable
    Lucrative knowledge of Evil and Good.

    So Eve was persuaded and Adam was tempted,
    They fell and they drank and continued to drink,
    (Their singing and dancing and shouting and prancing
    Prevented the serpent from sleeping a wink.)

    Alas, when the couple had finished a barrel
    And swallowed the final informative drops,
    They looked at each other and knew they were naked
    And covered their intimate bodies with hops.

    The anger and rage of the Lord were appalling,
    He wrathfully cursed them for taking to drink
    He hounded them out of the Brewery, followed
    By beetles (magenta) and elephants (pink).

    The crapulous couple emerged to discover
    A universe full of diseases and crimes,
    Where porter could only be purchases for money
    In specified places at specified times.

    And now in this world of confusion and error
    Our only salvation and hope is to try
    To threaten and bargain our way into heaven
    By drinking the heavenly Brewery dry.

    .

  • Alias

    “Now that the old queen has visited Guinness’s the following may or may not be appropriate to the occasion.”

    Well, if she is giving out apologies, she might want to give one out for anti-catholic sectarianism at Guinness. Being an old protestant ascendency business, it refused to employ catholics in managerial positions until the 50s – decades after independence. Catholics were confined to menial manual labour jobs only. Gay Byrne’s brother was the first catholic to make it into an office job at Guinness (as a runner boy) and that was only because five of his uncles fought in the British army. And perhaps Ms Aleese might apologise on behalf of the Irish state for its servile attitude to protestant ascendency businesses post-independence, wherein it allowed them to continue to discrinimate against catholics, independence nothwithstanding.

  • AGlassOfHine

    Nice to see Her Majesty honoring fallen Irish Republicans, and If I may admit it, nice to see the uneasiness of the unionist bile merchants

    qwerty

    It would have been nice to see these brave men the heroes who fought in BOTH World Wars honoured by the Irish State,instead of decades of dishonour !!
    That it took the presence of Her Majesty,to shine light on their sacrifice,is to Ireland’s eternal shame !!

    I wouldn’t even lower myself to make comment on your last sentence………………other than to say,it is clear where the *bile* emanates from !!

  • CW

    The most disappoiting thing about the visit is that Phil the Greek hasn’t made any embarrassing gaffes yet. Still, he’s got another day or two..

  • sdelaneys

    CW,
    I just hope he didn’t leave anything in the Vats in Guinness’s.

  • qwerty12345

    Aglassofhine, in the post previous to your latest there are 8 put downs of Ireland in 6 sentences. I think its clear who has the problem. You sir are a troll and its to this sites shame that people like you who really have no interest in positive engagement arent on a much tighter leash. Your ability to form sentences does little to cover your contempt for the majority of people on this island.

    Save your lecture on Irish war service. My great grandfather was killed at Suvla Bay, Gallipoli. His son fought at the somme and was in the merchant navy throughout ww2. And after all that he still struggled to find work and housing because of his religion.

  • foyle observer

    I don’t see what the big deal is at all.

    The Queen of England visits Ireland regulary. She was here in October of last year wasn’t she?

    With regards to her laying a wreath at the Garden of Rememberance for those who fought for Ireland’s independance from Britain, can we expect her to honour and respect those who died for independance, post partition?

    I won’t hold my breath but i don’t see any difference whatsoever.

  • qwerty12345 “Nice to see Her Majesty honouring fallen Irish Republicans, and If I may admit it, nice to see the uneasiness of the unionist bile merchants”

    I’m not uneasy. She also honoured the men of the 36th Ulster division [Prod and Cath] both. Lovely to see the Union Flag and the Republics Tricolour flown together down south.

    It’s a visit of reconciliation and is designed to seal a better relationship between Britain and the Republic. I’m all for it. The UK are the Republics biggest trading partner, we helped them out with several billion a few months ago and they have no territorial claim on Northern Ireland. Nice to see the Shinners squirm – they’re just not sure which way to turn really – Marty couldn’t make it eh? Pity, I remember someone talking about shared futures and respecting different cultures, ah well.

    Tribute [from a Unionist] to President McAleese. I was one of those Unionists who viewed her with suspicion – she delivered far beyond my expectations. Tribute also to HM The Queen for going the extra mile at all levels on this visit.

    75% of the good people of the South welcomed the visit. The Erringle folk threw bicycles and Sinn Fein let off black balloons – fairly embarrassing to the majority of people in the South I would imagine.

    Neil,
    “Given that by and large no one can get within a mile of the queen, and that they’ve sealed the manholes and taped up the post boxes, all the talk of ‘look how far we’ve come’ seems somewhat premature. If she’d visited in 1979 the security operation would have been very similar I’d wager”

    Firstly welcome back:) Think the difference between now and 79′ is that the vast majority of people of the Republic welcome HM Queen Elizabeth’s visit today – wouldn’t have been the case in 79. Perhaps the other difference in 1979 SF/IRA [haven’t said that for a while] would have tried to blow her up probably like they did Lord Mountbatten. Today they release balloons…nuff said.

  • John Ó Néill

    In some ways, I think this whole episode is a bit of an anachronism – hence the muted public response in the south (Dublin has been dead for the last couple of days).

    An obvious gap in the optics of the peace process was a visit from a British monarch to the Republic. Presumably the narrative cocoon that FF had spun around itself couldn’t accomodate such a thing on their watch (oh, the irony), so it seems this could only really have come about with the window of opportunity of a FG government and the urgency of dusk descending on the McAleese presidency.

    As with Cameron’s significantly belated apology for Bloody Sunday – both the Tories and FG appear more comfortable in their political skins on certain types of thin ice, than either Labour (in the UK) or FF.

    The invitation to the UDA brigadiers (we are all presuming that it is at Martin McAleese’s behest) likewise looks like a lost thought from 10-15 years ago. I’m not even referring to the clash with the anniversary of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings or the failure of London to meaningfully engage with the recent inquiry. If engaging with the UDA was really a short-hand for drawing out leaders (and leadership) from those loyalists who live in hugely deprived communities – this strategy has surely long failed (particularly if the metrics in those communities are jobs, quality of life, civic engagement measured as electoral registrations etc).The only good that might come of this is in marking the end of that process and the emergence of some new thinking on the subject.

    If you want to watch the coverage with a different viewpoint (and look at if it works) – a heavy, heavy subtext to a lot of this, particularly the timing, is also in the tourism figures (remarkably, history may have less to do with all of this than most commentators would like). The weakening of sterling against the euro and general economic environment has depresssed visitor numbers, year on year, for a couple of years now. Since the UK provides a large proportion of visitors, the poor exchange rate has disproportionately hit tourism numbers. The real return that the Irish government see in this isn’t in political or historical capital, it is in good quality coverage that will act as an extended tourism promo. A bounce in visitor numbers will provide an immediate capital injection into the economy in the Republic. More than their place in history, the government would surely swap that for some visible improvements in the general economic position.

    Next week, the Republic gets a further bit of tourism advertorial when Obama visits. The real value of these may only be known when we see Failte Ireland’s statistical returns for this quarter.

  • I quite like the idea of the British National Anthem being played on the visit of the British monarch to Ireland. And flags flying and all that.
    I look forward to hearing the Irish national anthem being played in Belfast and flags flying when President McAleese makes one of her regular appearances up north.
    Who could possibly object?
    (of course I do know what a State visit is) 😉

  • Greenflag

    ‘the Republic gets a further bit of tourism advertorial when Obama visits’

    Indeed . Had the British government had it’s way in Kenya in the 1950’s – Mr Barach Obama (Jr) the President probably would not have been born . Here’s part of an interview with ancient crooner Harry Belafonte by Amy Goodman which

    Amy Goodman :

    In the film, Sing Your Song, you talk about bringing many Kenyan students to the United States, funding them to come to the United States, being a part of that. And one of those people was President Obama’s father, Barack Obama.

    HARRY BELAFONTE: Yes. The first airlift, there were 81 students, and the British government fought us tenaciously. They tried to stop the plane. They tried to say we were violating international law and rules. They protested vigorously, especially since Jackie Robinson was my partner in this mischief. They got very upset. And our first airlift of 81 students landed. There were several planes after that. In our second contingent came this young man by the name of Barack Obama. And his name wasn’t “Senior” then, because Junior hadn’t been born. But Barack Obama, Sr., or Barack Obama, came. He was a student, did his time of study, as did all the other Africans. And the contract with them was really an understanding that we will find housing, we will protect you in every way economically, we’ll get your visas validated, you do your term of study. But you’re obliged at that point to then go back to Africa and help in the development of your own countries

    Here’s the full article http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/16/sing_your_song_harry_belafonte_on

  • Neil

    Firstly welcome back:)

    Thanks bud

    Think the difference between now and 79′ is that the vast majority of people of the Republic welcome HM Queen Elizabeth’s visit today – wouldn’t have been the case in 79.

    I don’t know if we can say that the majority of people welcome her. A vocal group definitely don’t, a large number couldn’t care less and some people are caught up in the moment. However the lack of people waving, crowds etc, might suggest she’s not that welcome. I’ll judge it next week compared to the President of the USA’s reception.

    Perhaps the other difference in 1979 SF/IRA [haven’t said that for a while] would have tried to blow her up probably like they did Lord Mountbatten. Today they release balloons…nuff said.

    Oh no doubt. I would imagine that if the dissers saw their chance they’d be in there like swimwear. Am just of the opinion that the security operation mounted against the dissidents currently would have been much the same as one mounted against the Provos.

    Viewed against the claim that we’ve totally changed/come so far etc. it would appear that the same situation is much in evidence, i.e. people would still like to kill her, to the degree that the manholes are sealed, the post boxes taped up and a ring of steel erected around her to prevent the great unhosed getting too close.

  • qwerty12345

    VH: “I’m not uneasy”

    Well I wasnt in any way suggesting that all unionists are bile merchants, but some certainly are. I had big reservations about the trip, still do, but the ceremonies yesterday and today are nothing but good. I cant understand the mentality of those who sit back and watch this and can only find in it reason to attack the Republic. Such people are bigots.

    VH: “Lovely to see the Union Flag and the Republics Tricolour flown together down south”

    Indeed. Now how about the same being done in the North?

    You see the crux of our problem on this island is the notion that a state is a nation. We have a variety of national identities going on and all should be equal and respected regardless of the optical illusion that is the “border”. You can be a Briton from Drum in Monaghan and an Irishman from Ballymena. lets respect each others flags they represent people not states.

    So lets have the tricolour side by side with the union jack in the north. They are already equal. The exercise would only underline this fact.

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    It was reported that the Royal wedding attracted 1.3 million viewers in the Republic. I seem to remember Diana’s funeral having a profound effect in Dublin. How come so few can be arsed to turn out for the Queen’s visit?

  • Well in fairness the city is deliberately deserted for “security”. I would not read too much into viewing figures for the “royal wedding”. As Ive said before Republics have a fascination with royalty.
    Besides watching a wedding hardly constitutes approval. Im sure we have all been to weddings like that ….never mind watching them on TV.
    And the viewing figures for 9/11 were high but are not an indication of approval.

  • odoc87

    While the royals usually leave a bad taste in my mouth i think it’s been a diplomatic sucess. Hopefully we can get to a position where people don’t associate the monarchy as anti Irish or disrespectful towards the valid nationhood of the republic. Then again prince Philip will be attending so I’m expecting a gaffe of some description. The national question can be more effectively answered through the normalisation of relations.

  • JR

    I think her itinerary has made the differance. The trip to croker and the garden of rememberance has broke alot of ice.

  • Greenflag

    Wow My first yellow cards and two together ? Now can somebody explain how I have ‘earned ‘them ‘ ? A mystery to me .

  • Neil – I was going to make the same point as Fitz regarding lack of spectators and the tie in with security. In terms of the popularity of her visit with the people of the South.

    75% welcome the Queens visit
    http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/features/2011/05/12/will-ireland-be-won-over-by-the-queen/

    Seems like the Republic have gotten over the ‘Mrs Windsor’ thing – pity some people up here aren’t so grown up:)

  • GavBelfast

    Perhaps the South in general – and SDLP types in NI – also realise that, if genuine unity is to happen, affection and respect, or at the very least civility, towards the Head of State (and related institutions) of about a million (give or take) of their would-be citizens is pretty-much a pre-requisite?

    When will the penny drop?

  • joeCanuck

    Greenflag,

    I got three recently. Mick has become quite strict and it may be that you were seriously off topic with your 3.17. Just a guess. I contritely e-mailed mick and he explained my transgressions.

  • gréagóir o frainclín

    What another superb day of the royal visit to Ireland. Elizabeth Regina appears to be enjoying every minute of it too and she has shown immense interest in all aspects of the royal tour. I have never seen her smile so much before.

    What a great show too from all involved. From the arrival at Casement aerodrome to the ceremonies at the Aras, The Garden of Rememberance, the Memorial Garden, the convivial chat of Trinity College, Guinness Brewery, Croke Park and the grandeur of Dublin Castle has produced countless iconic images for posterity.

  • “Wow My first yellow cards and two together ?”

    Go to your profile and check your earlier posts. I think you’ll find that the yellow sticker is on all of them.

  • Greenflag

    JC ,

    Thanks for the hint re the yellow carding – and being ‘off topic ‘ Could be .

    Nevin ,

    The ‘yellow’ sticker is on my profile which seems daft but not on any other posts other than the two mentioned .On the ‘offensive ‘ or off topic or whatever is fair enough .

    But now I see I get a third yellow card for asking why I got the first two ?