Red C: Doherty to take Donegal South West at a canter

A Red C poll to be published tomorrow will show Sinn Fein’s Pearse Doherty sitting on 40%  of the 1st preference votes in the Donegal South West constituency, some 21% ahead of the second placed Fianna Fail candidate.

Perhaps just as interestingly, the Sinn Fein candidate would appear to be strongly positioned to pick up second preference votes, with some 19% of those polled stating they’d transfer directly to him following their first choice candidates.

Whilst this is just an opinion poll, it does seem to confirm the consensual view that Sinn Fein is on course to make a significant advance in the Dail, claiming its first byelection triumph and sending a likely future leadership contender to the Dail.

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  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Figures like those means there may be a possibility of 2nd seat in the General Election – if the IMF-EU-Junta havent declared such uneconomic and unproductive behaviour illegal.

  • redhugh78

    How did Pete Baker miss this scoop?

    As always opinion polls are not to be trusted but even taking off the margin of error Doherty must be a cert.

    This will have a knock on effect in NE Donegal in the soon to be General election as well as in an amount of other constituencies for SF.
    If FF’s support is at 19% in their heartland then it doesn’t bode well for them in other constituencies.
    Kenny will be under serious pressure if thats all fg can muster.

  • GoldenFleece

    If SF don’t win this there is something completey wrong with them down south – although that wouldn’t be hard. But I expect a SF gain.

  • USA

    Indeed Red Hugh, given Baker’s obsession with SF it’s a shock he should miss this SF news.
    But then again his obvious anti SF agenda prohibits him from reasoned and even handed discussion.

  • Mick Fealty

    Boys, there is a story to comment on here. One more attack on Mr Baker from either one of you and there is a Yellow in it for you. USA, you in particular should know better!!

  • Alias

    They’ll pick up a lot of seats in the general election, mainly as a result of voters rejecting the parties that they see as being responsible for Ireland’s economic collapse. Still, even if a growing constituency of Irish voters now recognise they voted for gombeens and got what they voted for, they haven’t learned any core lessons about demanding high quality people and seem prepared to inject a party of touts, thickoes and thugs into the mix as some sort of voodoo solution. Go figure…

    I was talking to my wife’s uncle over the weekend, the chairman of a Fianna Fail Cumman, who told me that he intends to vote for Fine Gael at the next election. I asked him when he resigned from his beloved party, assuming he had, and he told me he was still working hard for the party. After that, I didn’t bother asking him why he thought Fine Gael would be any better.

    The Irish voter is an irrational animal…

  • Alias

    “One more attack on Mr Baker from either one of you and there is a Yellow in it for you,”

    And long overdue for some of them!

  • Mick Fealty

    Padraig MacLochlainn would top the DNE poll easily if these figures play out in a Spring election.

    Given the way the government is being embarrassed day by day, I am not surprised.

    It seems SF will be the weapon of choice to give the govt that kicking I mentioned earlier:

    http://sluggerotoole.com/?p=36659

  • Wilde Rover

    Alias,

    “I was talking to my wife’s uncle over the weekend, the chairman of a Fianna Fail Cumman, who told me that he intends to vote for Fine Gael at the next election. I asked him when he resigned from his beloved party, assuming he had, and he told me he was still working hard for the party. After that, I didn’t bother asking him why he thought Fine Gael would be any better.

    The Irish voter is an irrational animal…”

    I believe there may be method in his madness.

    It sounds like tactical voting: vote FG in the election and prepare for De Party to go into opposition, where the FF rump will fling feces at the new government for five years of austerity before they imagine they will sweep into power on a wave of anti-government feeling just in time to host the big show in 2016.

    Maybe not so irrational at all.

  • Alias

    There is no method at all. Like many of his generation, the party is part of his way of life, comprising his culture, social milieu, and his father’s way of life. It’s like a faith, really. You lose your faith long before you leave the convent.

    There isn’t a FF man of any integrity who will tell you with any sincerity that his party deserves to be re-elected. He can’t lie to his family, and I suspect that it breaks his heart to have lost his faith in his party or to vote for a blueshirt but he just hasn’t left the convent yet. I just think that he should resign rather than continue to organise prayer meetings, but I’m really not that bothered by it. Suffice to say that if he feels that way then FF will all to lower than their core vote…

    I regret that Declan Ganley didn’t set up an Irish political party rather than squander his momentum on the self-contradicting notion of a pan-EU eurosceptic party because if ever there was any opportunity to wipe out the old civil war parties and the gombeens who came to power via that network then it is surely now. We have a parliament full of utter morons. Indeed, even Edmund Honohan, Master of the Irish High Court, recently accused the Irish Parliament of failing in their duty to the nation to assert the primacy of Irish law over new EU laws and of delegating their own parliamentary duty of scrutinising EU law to civil servants who simply rubber-stamped EU law. But did any of the europhile Irish media report this? No, not one.

    Incidentally, and for what it’s worth, he also told me that the old age pension would be cut by exactly 9 euros in the next budget. So if you’re poor old granny is worried, then she shouldn’t be unduly worried…

  • alanmaskey

    Voting for “a party of touts, thickoes and thugs” will not be “voodoo solution” thesheep think or hope it will be. Mr Baker may well be pondering the pending result but the markets will not take long. It will be one further sign that Ireland cannot be trusted. Bond spreads will rise again.
    The only short term hope is, perversely, Fianna Fail with a slash and burn budget and the abilility to argue Ireland’s caser to her IMF, EU and British masters.
    The time for protest votes, especially voting for a totally tainted party such as PSF is not now.
    Longer term, Ireland probably has to hand over the reins to the IMF etc so they can do the major amputations needed.

  • Sean Og

    Never read too much into bye election results. A general election is a very different animal.

    The electorate often go for an independent or minority party canidate when they want to kick the Govt – eg Catherine Murphy, Maureen O’Sullivan, Healy, Democratic Left.

    SF should still pick up 2 seats in Donegal at the next General Election but I doubt the bye election result will be repeated and will have little impact outside Donegal.

  • Cynic

    This is worrying, SFs Mad Dog policies will consign the Republic to economic oblivion

  • J Kelly

    and please tell me what the FF, PD and Green mad dog economic policies have done..

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Cynic,

    Fear not – that is the thing about democracy – the madder your politics the less likley you are to get in.

    For example, very few people share SF or Alias’s negative views on Europe and unlike Alias SF will change theirs presuming, contrary to Alias predictions that we are not all doomed and that we are not expelled because of the fecking awful behaviour of Feckless Fail/Gael and their ilk.

  • John Ó Néill

    I thought this was economic oblivion? I must be in the wrong *Republic*….

  • propaganda

    Great minds eh? My Comment on Swotting the SF challenge in Donegal SW and beyond on 9 November 2010 at 2:30 pm
    Pearse Doherty from that performance would win the
    by-election by a landslide. In my opinion SF could use that momentum to run 2 candidates in Donegal SW in a general election. 2 SF and 1 FG the end result.
    Though judging it would be Mc.Ginley again for FG.

    Too much cheese, Fianna Fáilers having nightmares.

  • Nordie Northsider

    Good news for SF indeed but I’d suggest better news for Labour. Frank McBrearty, an appalling candidate by any criteria, is on 14% in a constituency where Labour have struggled to register at all. A supplementary question shows that Eamonn Gilmore is by far the most popular choice for Taoiseach. We’ve been here before, but this time it looks like Labour will finally make it’s breakthrough west of the Shannon.

    The real losers in this are Fine Gael. We’re in the last days of Enda’s leadership.

  • “give the govt that kicking”

    Mick, do the good people of Donegal deserve further punishment? Aren’t things bad enough without throwing them to the PRM wolves?

  • will SF now be campaigning for another partition in Ireland – this time divvying up the Republic to allow them to form a government in a new Northern Southern Ireland executive?

  • Pod

    So Pete Baker can make repeated allegations, some of them overtly misleading, about various Sinn Féin figures and stories relating to that party but God forbid anyone should take time to highlight the increasingly obessive nature of PB’s posts for fear of getting a ‘yellow’ card……………..?

    Slugger and it’s apparent agenda is becoming curiouser and curiouser……………

  • “very few people share SF or Alias’s negative views on Europe”

    Sammy, the Irish voters had to be hassled twice in recent years to come up with the ‘right’ vote in EU referenda whereas there are only a handful of SF TDs.

  • drumlins rock

    Nordie, think you probably have it there, yes SF will pick up alot of the the protest vote in the North of the South (you know what i mean!) but elsewhere it is looking like it will go to Labour.
    Was gonig to say the poll probably down plays the FF vote, as the voters are probly more rural and harder to gage, however the increasingly bad news since the poll probably cuts that out.

  • alanmaskey

    Eamonn DeValeera famously said if he wanted to know what the Iirsh thought, all he had to do was look into his soul. PSF feel they the same.

    Instead of welcoming Mr Baker’s interest and doing some long overdue introspection about their sins of omission and comission, all they can do is rail against him. Which, admittedly, is an improvement on putting his type in a body bag.

    If Donegal insists on going down the road to anarchy, investment funds should be suitably reallocated accordingly.

  • Munsterview

    Mick,

    you threaten to ‘yellow card’ some posters for their comments on Pete Baker, Alias expressed his agreement with you, yet he himself then go on to describe Sinn Fein candidates among other things as…

    “…….and seem prepared to inject a party of touts, thickoes and thugs into the mix as some sort of voodoo solution……..”

    Alias consistently not alone scrapes the bottom of the barrel for insult and denigration regarding Sinn Fein personnel, he grubs under the barrel itself, yet apparently without warning or sanction for his insults.

    You want to attract more Republican posters and bloggers here, yet Northern Republicans I speak to cite Turgon, Maskey and Alias in particular as a reason why they cannot be arsed in participating in this site.

    This is of course is a major part of the reason for the insults and a major object of the excercise, they and others of like ilk do not want a Shinner on this site other than Dissident Sinn Fein sources prepared to take issue with Mainstream Republicans. They only want the kind that FitzJames H described ( rather unkindly ) as the ‘lunatic fringe of Republicanism’ some weeks ago.!

    As someone who was subjected to censorship in my political, artistic and every other life for over a quarter of a century, I am reluctant to request curtailment of the comments of any poster, indeed I have said consistently that I prefer to see sectarianism openly posted where the extent of it can be acknowledged rather than deleted and hidden by strict application of political correctness.

    When I came on this site I expected no quarter and I gave none, yet I could not use terms such as …….’ party of touts, thickoes and thugs’ to describe Unionist party supporters, as all hell would break loose, yet this is consistent fare for ‘Alias and Maskey’ et al when describing Republicans.

    Maskey is now unmasked and his anti-republican rant is seen for the non objective, blind, irrational, obsession that it is by any reasonable person.

    However Alias it seems is free to continue his anti Sinn Fein, personalized bile without hinderance or sanction. yet some weeks ago when he got what could have been taken as sectarian remark from me, Maskey attempted to get an ‘anti-semitic’ tag up and running against me.

    Naturally the hundreds of comments that Alias used against Catholics and their political representatives prior to this that could have been regarded as sectarian by Catholics were ignored. The ‘Croppy Lie Down’ do not just apply North of the Border.

    If we do have a new playing pitch with a greater availability with yellow and red cards etc, perhaps you could spell out what the rules of fair comment and civilized debate are ?

    Thanks also for getting the pre-view back !

  • Mick Fealty

    MV,

    I’m going to post on this this evening. Yellow Cards are now actually things, not a conversational piece.

    I intend to sharpen up on the practice. We also now have a ‘flag as offensive’. button as well whch should make finding the miscreants and dealing out the appropriate punishment.

    Long overdue, I know.

  • propaganda

    ‘If Donegal insists on going down the road to anarchy, investment funds should be suitably reallocated accordingly.’

    Well that would be the first time for Donegal to get what it needs.

  • alanmaskey

    Pramerica Systems should go for a start. Maybe Letterkenny Tech could be closed down. Donegal Regional Airport should also be closed. No more external funding for water or sewage. Remove troop garrisons and replace them with Rangers to control PSF related crime.
    The business parks in Letterkenny and Donegal should also go. Killybegs has also been treated with kid gloves regarding fishing.
    Maybe those opening salvoes would get it through their thick heads. Certainly those living in more level headed constituencies would appreciate the side benefits were the savings to be reinvested in more deserving places.

  • propaganda

    Well this poll certainly put the cat among the pigeons judging by some disparaging remarks on here.

  • percy

    Mick,
    most snipes at peteb are just grumbling, you rarely hear the kind of degrading language “alias” freely uses against sf voters.

  • redhugh78

    Attack? any chance of showing me where I attacked Pete Baker, Mick?

    Double standards on Slugger again. as long as your posts are sticking the boot into SF, either personally or generallly then Happy Days, fair game, knock yourself out.
    It’s pathetic.

    Dare to question Baker’s conveyor belt like obsession(which incidentally I believe is being fed to him) with denegrating SF and it’s Mick to the rescue with a yellow card.
    Why don’t you just admit it Mick, you harbour the same hatred for Republicans as all the other dredgers on Slugger.

  • An Phoblacht Abu

    yes god forbid the people in a democracy vote for the person they want to represent them.

    Mr Maskey you are possibly one of the most tedious Troll’s i have ever encountered online.

  • Greenflag

    SF will win this one for many diverse reasons . When one looks at the mainstream parties FF, FG , Irish Labour is there any amongst them who can face the electorate.

    When ‘democracies ‘ fail because of economic reasons there is always a struggle between extreme right and left . Ireland has experienced what the ‘right’ have achieved this past decade as they carved out the country with the banks being allowed to run riot , lie , steal and pillage their way to fortunes 🙁

    Why would’nt the people of Donegal SW vote SF whether as a protest vote or to send a signal to to those who take Ireland’s political stability for granted . If I were in Donegal I’d probably vote Independents first and then give SF my only party preference . And I’m not an SF supporter .

    Whether Doherty’s election will bring in two SF in this constituency in the spring election is another story . But FF know a sharp kick in the goolies is on the way and they deserve it .

    FG still need a new leader if they are to win in the Spring . But they are now running around like headless chickens with the Ringer in Mayo going apeshit and now the normally composed Alan Shatter being ordered out of the Dail for contempt or some such .

  • Greenflag

    SF will win this one for many diverse reasons . When one looks at the mainstream parties FF, FG , Irish Labour is there any amongst them who can face the electorate.

    When ‘democracies ‘ fail because of economic reasons there is always a struggle between extreme right and left . Ireland has experienced what the ‘right’ have achieved this past decade as they carved out the country with the banks being allowed to run riot , lie , steal and pillage their way to fortunes 🙁

    Why would’nt the people of Donegal SW vote SF whether as a protest vote or to send a signal to to those who take Ireland’s political stability for granted . If I were in Donegal I’d probably vote Independents first and then give SF my only party preference . And I’m not an SF supporter .

    Whether Doherty’s election will bring in two SF in this constituency in the spring election is another story . But FF know a sharp kick in the goolies is on the way and they deserve it .

    FG still need a new leader if they are to win in the Spring . But they are now running around like headless chickens with the Ringer in Mayo going ape and now the normally composed Alan Shatter being ordered out of the Dail for contempt or some such . FG will be the real losers in this by election . The desperation coming through some of the FG TD’s is partly due to knowing that with Enda nice fellow that he is they stand to snatch another defeat from what should be a victory in the spring.

  • Munsterview

    “……Connolly Socialist. Democrat……. Maskey unmasked (profile)

    Maybe Letterkenny Tech could be closed down. Donegal Regional Airport should also be closed. No more external funding for water or sewage.

    Connolly Socialist ? Democrat ?

    Not even in a parallel universe !

  • Munsterview

    “……Connolly Socialist. Democrat……. Maskey unmasked (profile)

    Maybe Letterkenny Tech could be closed down. Donegal Regional Airport should also be closed. No more external funding for water or sewage etc.

    Connolly Socialist ? Democrat ?

    Not even in a parallel universe !

  • fitzjameshorse1745

    On the figures…..and I dont trust opinion polls…….the story is not just SFs rise but FFs demise.
    Effectively SF dont have to do anything at all…….the sight of Lenihan sleepwalking thru Brussels……and even decent guys like Pat Carey (as opposed to the useless) embarrassment is enough.
    Nobody in the right minds could vote Fianna Fáil now.
    The irony is that the loss of sovreignty was caused by FF (the Republican Party).
    But surely the FF vote is vulnerable on three fronts.
    it is
    “conservative” vulnerable to FG
    “state” vulnerable to Labour
    “republican” vulnerable to SF
    so votes can drain away in all directions.
    Clearly in Donegal, it is draining mostly to SF. On these figures, SF is almost certain to pick up a seat……a result based not solely on protest but of republican conviction there. The protest element wont be totally sustained in a General Election when people will make more considered choices.
    Yet there will certainly be some SF gains although possibly disproportionately in border counties. But he most likely outcome would be a FG-Labour coalition not reliant on any FF rump and certainly not on SF……but clearly the next election is not one that any party is anxious to win.

    The curious thing about Prime Time tonight was Pat Rabbitte telling Pat Carey that FF had handed a straight-jacket to the next government…..an open admission that the next government wont actually be ruling.

  • USA

    Dissapointing Mick.

  • Reader

    fitzjameshorse1745: On the figures…..and I dont trust opinion polls…….the story is not just SFs rise but FFs demise.
    Until the 4 year plan is released, and the political parties respond to it in their manifestos for the spring election, all of this is moot. This might be the first election when a large number of voters think very carefully indeed before casting their vote.
    That doesn’t mean that the best liar won’t win, of course.

  • joeCanuck

    It’s not too uncommon for commenters to take their eyes off the ball and to kick a player on the shins.
    But this thread is authored by Chris and yet the badmouthing is about Pete.
    He is accused of being obsessed but this is one of those cases of the pot calling the kettle black.

  • What makes you think ” voters… think before casting their vote”?
    [Keep it to the politics of the thing – mods]
    Voters in France and elsewhere have flip flopped from Comnmunist to extreme right wing. Voting PSF is a vote for the extreme right wing. It signifies people do not think.

    Ireland’s Year Zero – the advance of PSF – will simply prove that democracy is too important to be left to voters. Voting for a party steeped in the blood of the PIRA’s victims and led by shady characters with no work record or achievements shows not the ability to think but the ability to jump from the frying pan into the anarchic fire.

    FF and FG both have some skilled politicians and supporters. PSF have neither. Their forte was the bullet in the head and the lonely Louth burial spot. If people hand the reins of power over to such authorarian psychotics, God help them. No one else should.

  • Munsterview

    “….. the advance of PSF – will simply prove that democracy is too important to be left to voters……” Alen Maskey (unmasked) and now posting as alanmaskey !

    Maskey in his profile claims to being a ‘Democrat’ yet in this post he / she claims that democracy is …..’ too important to be left to voters’

    May I respectfully point out to Alan Maskey (unmasked) alanmaskey or whatever that this statement is not compatible with democratic principles. It is however in complete accordance with the tenets of Fascism as a political creed.

    It is also the personal creed of the Bully Boy, Tyrant and State Political Police such as those in Burma who ignored the peoples democratic wishes and kept the lawfully elected Head of State under house arrest for their political masters !

  • Munsterview

    For any who may be interested, this is the Rabbit rounds on Carey outburst, curtsey of Irish Central.

    p://www.irishcentral.com/news/Have-you-no-shame-the-political-attack-that-has-gripped-a-nation–SEE-VIDEO-109181844.html

    Enjoy !

  • John Ó Néill

    Sorry – MV – great theatre, but why did Labour choke on ending pairing or avoid any of the other tactics that could have forced the by-elections or other attempts to force FF to call an election? They’ve been happy to let FF take the lead and not provided effective opposition. The best that can be said is that they haven’t been as bad as ‘Inda’ and FG.

  • “It is also the personal creed of the Bully Boy, Tyrant and State Political Police such as those in Burma who ignored the peoples democratic wishes and kept the lawfully elected Head of State under house arrest for their political masters !”

    Most democracts call “Burma” by its proper name of Myanmar. Myanmar is run by an army council, just like PSF. They also disappear people.
    Munster Monster seems to know little of the tenets of fascism. Guess there are talkers and doers.

  • Munsterview

    John O

    Politics is politics ! I would imagine that tactically and strategically, the longer Labor can wait for an election, the more Fianna Failure will have collapsed as a party and the more alienated ff supporters will be.

    There is also the fact that the hapless Enda has yet some more foot shooting to do plus also after Donegall, he is going to look even more lackluster than usual.

    Touch of the early Church Father who prayed to be ‘ chaste but not yet’ about Labor and power. Who can blame them for that ?

    Everything is now going their way the longer they can avoid taking power, the stronger they will be when taking power.

    That is politics

  • Jean Meslier

    “…FF and FG both have some skilled politicians and supporters. PSF have neither…”

    And your evidence for these skilled politicians is…?

    “…God help them. No one else should…”

    And again please alan, your evidencefor the god chap is…?

  • John Ó Néill

    Don’t know how far this will be borne out beyond Donegal SW, but apparently a lot of people who are being surveyed/interviewed are as irritated with Labour as they are with FF (and the Greens) and FG for a perceived failure of politics and politicians. Labour are doing well as the least objectionable of a ‘bad lot’. Oddly, since the other parties have always insisted SF should be kept at arms length it means that SF is able present to itself as an alternative. Whether that will develope into an electoral breakthrough (maybe 12+ seats), is difficult to measure yet.
    That mood is partly why Labour and FG don’t want an election at the moment – the result looks a lot more unpredictable than the polls suggest (thanks to the bizarre patchwork of 3, 4 and 5 seater constituencies).

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    John,

    I dont see where these potential extra seats (12+) are going to come from – Limerick or Waterford are not suddenly going to return SF TDs.

    I suspect they wont get over the 10 mark and will get about 8 – which is still a reasonable result.

    I heard the boy Aonghus (?) on RTE last night and he was pretty appalling – that perhaps would not matter if SF were mopping up disgruntled working class Dublin voters – but I dont they are.

    Still looking forward to Grizzly in the Dail – place will be packed for his maiden speech.

  • John Ó Néill

    I don’t know. I think accepting 8 as a good result under the circumstances etc shouldn’t be considered good enough (that would probably be the current 4, plus 2 in the Donegals and 2 more in Dublin). I suggested 12+ based on the local election results and possible seats that should be targeted and won in the current mood. If that isn’t achieved then there needs to be the biggest shake up since the 1980s. SF needs to take itself seriously in the Republic if it wants the electorate to take it seriously.
    The political mood hasn’t been as volatile in a long time. I thought that Donegal SW would go to a candidate getting about 30% and rolling up 2nd preferences behind him. I still don’t believe Doherty will hit 40% or FF will dip below 25% or so. I suppose this time next week, we will know.

  • wee buns

    FF and FG: both candidates would have been better suited to a career as jockeys given their shrill platitudes and slight physical statures. NOT that size matters, except when it comes to talking sh-te: they excel themselves.

    Utter contempt is the best understatement I can produce for how FF have bolloxed our affairs.
    Mary Hanaford (Minister of Finance) had the audacity to turn up at our doors.
    The phrase ‘I would not piss on you if you were on fire’ was perhaps the clincher.

    While I agree with FJH’s comment that ‘republicans are vulnerable’ to the SF vote, as are those who wish to voice protest with FF/FG, it has been also noted that there exists a great deal of voter ambivalence; indeed many who would have always voted with gusto feel hopeless, ambivalent.

    SF is also appealing to clear ‘nationalist’ (as opposed to republican please) vulnerability.
    People feel their national interests are being ignored, and maybe it is no bad thing that SF plays a role in shaking up the diabolical impotence of central center FF/FG.

    Myself: vote is with independent Pringle; socialist & republican of integrity.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    John,

    “8 Not good enough”.

    That depends on the configuration of parties after the next election – how many did the Greens have?

    SF need to be able to position themselves as ‘acceptable’ to the Plain People of the South who have somewhat differnet views on the insurgency than Nationlaists in the North. They also need to ditch any crypto-Marxism-Anti-European-jibber-jabber – becuase the Plain People of Ireland dont want a crypto-Marxism-Anti-European about the place.

    I presume SF realise this and have reigned in the rhetoric – but they will have to brief the boy Aongus O whatis his name a bit better before letting him loose on the airwaves.

    If they tidy up their act and build slowly but surely then perhaps the numerical cards might fall the right way.

    I think anything else is simply wishful thinking.

  • Jean Meslier

    Yes wee buns. Fair enough post, but you cannot ignore Doherty is a good candidate who walked the walk whilst the rest talked the talk. This has not gone unnoticed by the dis-enfranchised people of Donegal SW. FF’s attempt to create a 2nd class citizen status in this constituency was the final act of contempt.

    Your 2nd preference decision will be important wee buns.
    Let the cry be :
    “What Donegal Began!”

    Pearse to be elected on the 5th count

  • Greenflag

    ‘will simply prove that democracy is too important to be left to voters.’

    If you take your head out of your rear end for a moment or two and look around the world you will see that ‘democracy’ is also too important to be left to the banks and their ‘paid for ‘ political representatives who made the laws to suit the interests of the international bond financiers .

    Once upon a time banks were looked upon as institutions which could be trusted .

    Now they rate somewhere on the ethics league table below prostitutes and barely ahead of the ‘paid for’ politicians 🙁

    Financial oligarchy is what rules the world . The elected parliaments are merely showpieces to give lie to the pretence that we live in democracies . Perhaps some of those those who don’t bother to vote know that already .

  • Greenflag

    wee buns ,

    If you are going to troll try and get the important facts right . As of now Brian Lenehan is the Minister of Finance . Who is this Mary Hanaford person or were ye just imaginin her and the way she might look at ye ;)?

  • Munsterview

    Agreed John

    Labour also has another big problem in Donegall….. their candidate !

    Bellowing like a cornered bull can command attention but once attention is focussed, it is quickly obvious that there is little there bar the bellowing.

    The late Billy Flynn PI did quite a lot for that candidate and his family when they were victimized by the Gardai and the State. Albeit he was paid for his services but the pressure that Billy was put under led to a breakdown in his physical health and left him mentally exhausted.

    Not one of that family attended Billy Flynn’s funeral. So much for gratitude !

    The labour candidate and his family also organized a Nationwide meeting in Donegall where hundreds who had problems with the administration of Justice in The Southern State, travelled to, despite the remote location. All at that meeting were promised that an organization would be founded there to peruse justice for all.

    The Family got their compensation from the State but the victims of State injustice are still waiting for the ‘Nationwide organization against State injustice’……. and waiting they will be !

    People are not fools, the Donegall people in particular are a canny lot and come voting count Eamonn Gilmore will find that while he had a ‘Big Name’ beast, he also had a poor candidate that could not deliver the goods, not because he was not known, but because he was too well known.

  • Greenflag: Do you support the democratic wishes of the people of Gaza?
    If you are a PSF Adams supporter, you must know his American mates have a history of negating the democratic mandate,
    And, of cruser, Hitler was democratically elected, just like Louth Mouth,
    Bank shares were up in trading yesterday. Stop reading conspiracy crap.
    What ethic league do you refer to? Your own? Gerry Louth Mouth Adams?
    You are mixing up what you think are facts with snippests of nonsense you picked up from the conspiracy sites. We have already have a Provo troll filling that niche.

    Wee buns: It seems Provos are obsessed with their bowel movements. You might have got a kick coming across as a juvenile prick to Mary Hanafin but people like you are generally not wanted in polite society. Mary Hanafin’s portfolio does more for Donegal people and all other Irish speakers and natives than jumped up Provo sheep will ever do.
    The fact that you are boasting about using your foul mouth to a nice, middle class woman says a lot about you, none of it particularly flattering.

  • Munsterview

    “…… I still don’t believe Doherty will hit 40% or FF will dip below 25% or so. I suppose this time next week, we will know……”

    That too John would be my personal gut instinct !

    There are three big variables, first how Fainna Failure hardcore will vote, as one of our people put it to me last weekend, “…. the Cope do not want the dope…”, FF will bring out all the voters, staying home is not an option, hundreds or thousands of spoiled votes are not an option either, so who will these people tactically vote for ?

    Fine Gael was still in disarray last weekend, the non core FG voters are going to vote but who for ? Could they do the unthinkable and vote for SF as a one off personal protest vote ? We often forget that there is a strong Nationalistic streak in Fine Gael and they may just go for it, given what we have just been through.

    Outside of the mainstream parties, the Independents are going to be first eliminated, their votes are mainly protest votes, so where will these votes transfer to?

    to get back to your figures, yes you are there or there abouts but factor in the variables and you could see FF go under 20% and SF even go over 45 % even edge close to the 50% if not over. It certainly would not surprise me if SF did.

  • wee buns

    Excuse my mistake you are absolutely correct of course.

  • wee buns

    Just as we were the only county to vote ‘no’ to Lisbon, Donegal will set the trend, perhaps not for all island SF domination, but certainly the voice of dissent, in this instance via Doherty. I completely agree, if he’s voted in, then he has rightly earned his seat.

  • Nunoftheabove

    “mixing up what you think are facts with snippests of nonsense you picked up from the conspiracy sites”. Can’t think who that reminds me of……

    So just to be clear on Gaza Alan, you’re a wholehearted supporter of Hamas and as such are a fully signed up believer in the the protocols of the elders of Zion, are you ?

  • cappagh

    as bad as fianna fail are, sinn fein are worse

  • Nunoftheabove: Now that you have fortified yourself with congratulating those who urinate on dead nuns’ graves, I see you are butting in here now. What is that about fools asking more questions than wise men can answer. Never mind. Let me indulge your tiny mind once more.
    1. Democracy. Demos, the will of the people, quite a separate idea from republic, res publica, public affairs.
    2. I was attacked by some of “your” fellow Provo trolls, Greenflag in particular (the intellectual wing of the knuckledusters perhaps) by using the well known phrase that democracy is too important to be left to the people. Hamas were democratically elected. So too were many other groups (the 1953 28 Mordad coup d’état in Iran being one of many important such cases) done by the USA, which Gerry Adams supports. Geddit. Gerry Louth Mouth Adams’ American friends such as Peter King have so much of a problem with democracy and freedom that they slaughter its proponents.
    3. Conspiracy site references: My earlier comment made it plain I was drawing Greenflag’s attention to his use of such sources. There is another serial commenter who has the hint of conspiratorial references in almost everyone of his comments. He is an anti Semite and an Adams gang fan.
    4. Donegal: Should D9onegal be allowed go the way of Gaza/Weimar. Discuss. Actually, Nunoftheabove, don’t until you know something.

  • John Ó Néill

    MV, I’m still a bit suspicious that SF can triumph here, at all (until the declaration). The FF/Green government (and its pliant opposition of FG/Labour) bankrupted the 26 counties by handing over effective sovereignty for the dubious bauble of receiving EU bank loans (to be paid back by Irish taxpayers to commercial lenders whose loans were not underwritten by the EU anyway).
    I still wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of the Sunday papers suddenly discovered some detail of the ‘troubles’ that was kind of, well, maybe horrendously bad PR for SF (because, until now, no-one has ever, ever discovered a relationship between SF and the IRA).
    The FF/Green coalition (and their ‘consensus for cuts’ cheerleaders in FG and Labour) appear to have saddled evey person in the state (newborn, school child, parents of newborn and/or school child,. pensioner etc) with as much as 22,000 euros per person to be paid off over four years or so. This is a debt run up by internatioanl financiers who failed to measure or cost in the risk in loans to Irish banks but whose commercial debts are being passed on to taxpayers by the EU and UK to the Republic and being callled a bailout (loan sharks usually use different terminology). The biggest disgrace (given the bad PR) is that this isn’t even a bailout – it’s a consolidated loan for up to 100 billion euro which will include debts, many of them German, that shouldn’t have been passed on to the taxpayer (for instance non-serviced loans that were not properly tested by the same international financiers – why should anyone else be liable for these?). What should have prompted Cowen’s immediate resignation was that the state will now pass on the losses on commercial loans to UK clients with no write down.

    So, basically, lend commercially – you’re not going to lose…
    Say after me: ‘We Serve Neither King Nor Kaiser…”

  • Nunoftheabove

    In terms of butting in – yes I’m afraid it’s an affliction of mine – challenging ignorant, discourteous, bullshitting, racist, sectarian, homophobic toerags, that is. Get used to it or, ideally, butt out. Permanently.

    So, just to be clear on this and then we can have done with it, you DO wholeheartedly support the totalitarian, racist suicide death cult of the entirely reactionary Hamas and subscribe to the protocols of the elders of Zion, hmmm ? I’ve given you one opportunity to confirm your position on this and you’ve dodged it.

    As far as I’m concerned, the people of Gaza and elsewhere should enjoy the democratic right to vote for whoever they like. That entitles Hamas to absoslutely nothing in terms of any entitlement to international support given the dangerous evil sinister filthy garbage that informs their position.

  • Nunoftheabove Spoken like a real fascist. And not even a consistent one. Good luck with rhetoric 101. If oyu can clean your mouth, you might pass.

  • Nunoftheabove

    Fine, so having refused two clear and specific opportunities to deny it, we have now estabished that alan maskey is a clear supporter of the Hamas and, as such, s/he is a believer in and supporter of the protocols of the elders of Zion.

    In short, a profound supporter of racist, sexist, homophobic, messianic imperialist suicidal death cult totalitarians. Well at least that’s all now nice and clear.

  • Munsterview

    Nunof…….

    Is it not crystal clear to you and others, as indeed it should have been long before now that other than an anti- Sinn Fein and Republican diatribe, this particular poster do not have a constituent position on anything ?

    Despite the occasional coherent posts and attempts at humor ( as in the goat in Stormount), after reading the posts as a whole for a period the penny finally drops, the poser poster is actually politically illiterate !

    This conclusion would go a long way to explain the mass of contradictions, as the Carpenter’s Son said in his last last ordeal, ‘Lord forgive them for they know not what they do. All you can do is as I and others have done, decline to rise to his baiting or coat trailing and let him wither on the vine.

    Free speech and expression on this site and on the net generally has a price and toleration of rants such as Alan Maskey ( unmasked) alanmaskey are part of it. Once in the Supreme Court an applicant appearing in person was rather abusive and had to be silenced and told to come back another day when he was more composed.

    When he had gone Mr Justice Flarthey remarked ” The poor old devil may have a case alright but he is only able to define himself in terms of what he is against ” This poster cannot even coherently do that !

  • Greenflag

    As someone whose profile (Alan Maskey) states he is a Connolly Socialist but whose comments have all the consistency and content of a demented ultra con right wing nut job – I suggest Mr Maskey that you address your ‘identity’ problems to those who are medically qualified to help you .

    I for one will no longer be replying to any of your disjointed crap and I would advise others if they value their sanity to do likewise . In several years of posting on Slugger and we’ve had a few truly bizarre eejits in that time – I have never actually said to any poster to please refrain from answering any of my posts . So don’t waste your time . I’ll not be answering them.

    As for ‘conspiracy sites ‘ I suggest that anyone who can reconcile being a Connolly Socialist and can make the kind of comments you make on this board is the product of multifarious conspiracy boards many of whom are wired to the moon or even beyond the galactic edge .:(

  • Greenflag

    that’s all now nice and clear.

    Not quite there is the matter of him being an eh ‘Connolly Socialist ‘ 🙂

    How Mick has’nt yellow carded the troll is beyond me 🙁

  • Jean Meslier

    Prostitutes ie sex workers have been around a long time. In fact thousands of years before bankers. And pound for pound (Should that be euro?-ouch) they deliver a better service than those leeches.

  • Nunoftheabove

    To be fair the bankers have been keeping the prostitution sector afloat for generations, along with the clergy. No tax is ever paid of course.

    I should also say that bankers are, by reputation, ahem, very tiny depositors….

  • MunsterMonster, Greenflag, Nunoftheabove: Which of the three monkeys to take first?
    1. Nothing about the topic at hand in any of your three posts.
    2. Nunoftheabove’s post is as befuddled as his mind.There is nothing “racist, sexist, homophobic, messianic imperialist” or “pro suicidal death cult totalitarians” in any of my comments. Leave the lying to
    3. MunsterMonster. And the silly personal anecdotes. And the Americanisms. I was particularly intrigued by his talk of the Irish “Labor Party” in one or more of his rambling posts but there you go.
    4. Green/False flag: Have you a point to make? Please do not attack my secular beliefs in the same way Nunoftheabove attacks my religious beliefs. James Connolly received Holy Communion before he got the lead belly treatment and the 1916 GPO garrison spent their time saying the Rosary (as Pearse and Plunkett discussed poetry).
    5. PIRA and PSF do not believe in free speech. This is most obvious here in the attacks on Peter Baker (I laugh off personal attacks on me by riff raff who cannot argue or even point to facts but must instead broadcast their own psychoses) and in MunsterMonster claims that he was censored (poor victim).
    ::::::::::::::::
    So, PSF might win in Donegal but they will never have credibility in either the moral or financial senses. Hopefully, they wil peak and wane.
    Ireland is essentially a conservative country (FF+FG + rural Labour + traditional SF). The PDs have gone, the Greens will most likely disappear and hopefully, for Ireland, PSF wil go next.
    Wee Buns: As you live therre, wahtever happened to Seamus Rodgers the Stick and his “organisation?”.
    Let’s get back on topic and away from the Provo trolls

  • Munsterview

    I just see this on Irish Central, I have not seen the ‘Sundays’ yet so I do not know if the story was carried or not.

    Fianna Failure cannot agree to such a proposed bill, they would have to throw too many of their top people and financial backers to the wolves !

    Have the Greens finally seen the writing on the wall ? Could this be their ‘get out of jail card’, an issue in which they could leave Government looking good ? The game just got very interesting indeed !

    Article…..

    Green party senator Dan Boyle

    Dan Boyle, a Green Party senator in Ireland, is planning on introducing a bill next week for an Iceland-style law on “financial treason.”

    “Among the many reasons why there has been no action taken against known individuals working in Irish financial institutions – whose greed and recklessness have brought us to where we are – is that properly defined legislation seems to be lacking in defining this kind of white collar crime and fraud,” said Boyle.

    “I believe that there should be an offence of financial treason, carrying a mandatory sentence and huge fines, that would be applicable to defined individuals working in financial institutions licensed by the Irish State.

    “There would be convictions on foot of any decision made knowingly by such individuals that result in reputational damage for the country, an unacceptable economic cost, or a loss of economic sovereignty,” he said.

    “While much public anger has a political focus, and much of this is justified, the inability to bring to justice those whose self-interest and greed so undermined our national wellbeing, is something that must end – and end soon.”

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    MV,

    ““Among the many reasons why there has been no action taken against known individuals working in Irish financial institutions – whose greed and recklessness have brought us to where we are – is that properly defined legislation seems to be lacking in defining this kind of white collar crime and fraud,” said Boyle.”

    I wonder would he be so keen if the words and in political office were inserted after the words “Irish financial institutions”.

  • Munsterview

    Got it on one !

  • Nunoftheabove

    alanmaskey

    When you say “let’s get back on topic” what you actually mean is:

    “let’s needlessly change the subject yet again because I’m unable and afraid to debate properly as I:

    (i) am stupid;

    (ii) hate losing (despite a lifetime of practice) and am currently taking a real serious shellackin’; and

    (ii) have ADD as well as NPD”.

    That’s your fourth failure to deny that you’re a believer in the protocols of the elders of zion and a strong supporter of the verminous Hamas.

    Connolly socialism’s not quite what it used to be then, I see.

    Biiiiiiggggg George Galloway fan, I’m guessing LOL.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    MV,

    I have another historical question for you – did you get anywhere with the previous one with an estimate of non combatants killed by the Black and Tans?.

    Any ideas who escaped with Frank Aiken from Dundalk Barracks in 1922?

  • Munsterview

    Nun…..

    Excellent series of articles some years back in Nexus magazine on Hamas and how they were set up, it do not appear to be in the free download section, but for anyone seriously interested, it is a worthwhile read.

    Since some readers here and one of the lunatic soup varity in particular, continually refer to the ‘pedia’ as a source, this doccument that I have given an abstract of, is available as a free down load and is a sobering read with regard to the reliability of the W pedia. I know the autor, Philip C. for the past ten years, I have taken part in some conferences with him and he is a serious researcher and well extablished International author.

    http://www.nexusmagazine.com/

    Article abstract………….

    Faking it

    It was in early 2007 that the WikiWorld was rocked when one of its most prolific contributors and editors,”believed” by the site to be a professor of religion with advanced degrees in
    theology and canon law, was exposed as being nothing more than a community college drop-out.

    The person at the centre of this controversy was “Essjay”—which begged the question as to why anyone in a position of authority should want or need to hide behind a pseudonym.

    In truth, Essjay was Ryan Jordan, a 24- year-old from Kentucky with no advanced degrees, who used texts such as Catholicism for D u m m i e s to help him correct articles on the penitential rite and transubstantiation.

    Indeed, the problem began at the very beginning of Essjay’s career, when no one vetted his credentials and when his claim to be a tenured professor of religion at a private university was
    accepted.

    He contributed to an estimated 20,000 Wikipedia entries, making up one per cent of the 1,675,000 articles that Wikipedia listed as being online.

  • Munsterview

    Short answer to both is no !

    I will note your queries for my next visit to the Uni library. However ‘pesky’ will probably be unable to resist the oppertunity to demonstrate his little learning, so you may have the information a little sooner than that.

    Been busy with a few projects these past months and I just about manage to keep up with my International Academic contacts. Some of my interests are also in what is sometimes referred to as ‘Hidden History’ and some of these trails can be quite time consuming as I have to pull my weight with Irish enquiries. As yet today I have not still caught up with the Newspapers.

    One of the more intriguing aspects of the Black and Tan period of lawlessness was the rape numbers. It was only to be expected that there should be significant incidents of rape given some of the background of some of the Tans and their regular drunken state. Most of the old local historians I knew had an account or two from their own regions but while they discussed these, the accounts never made it into print.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    MV,

    Ta.

    Always struck me as suprising that no numbers quoted.

  • Greenflag

    Senator Boyle is halfway there . But mandatory sentencing needs to be extended beyond the white collar financial criminals of the banking class but alto to the political class elected , retired or out of office and the civil service mandarins and indeed any citizen who has aided or abetted these anti social bastards.

    A mandatory death sentence and or life imprisonment no parole /probation ( let the convicted choose a lifetime of hard labour as well as state confiscation of all assets or they can choose the hemlock .

  • http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/1122/donegal.html

    Voting has begun. This by election has been held, at a time of grave natinal crisis, because the constitutional rights of a member of PSF have been violated. PSF supported PIRA, who vilated the constitutional rights of members of the gardai by murdering them and the constitutional rights of Protestant politicians like Senator Fox by murdering them and the constitutional rights of others by killing, torturing, disapparing, kidnapping them.
    Senator Doherty is a sensitive man.

    Greenflag: I have a long and ubsy day ahead of me but I am sure pothers would love to see you try to straighten your 21/11, 8.46pm post. You want turkeys to vote for Christmas and the wider turkey community to endorse it. Without your betters to look after your welfare, a chara, you would be really stuffed turkey.
    I am looking forward with pleasure to the mother of all budget cuts. The words of The Terminator, Arnie, about driving your enemy before you and hearing the lamentation of their women come to mind.

  • propaganda

    Perhaps you should have put your candidacy forward…
    Only to see it rejected at the polls.
    To correct you the constitutional rights of the Free State were violated by FF/IMF. It took SF to uphold those rights.

    It a strange thing you on this site and democracy, you troll down a thread if you don’t like the subject and troll if you don’t like the potential electoral result.

    Roll on the 25th and another victory for Pearse Doherty.

  • Munsterview

    Here is some comment on the Greens statement curtesy of Irish Centeral site.

    Green Party Leader, John Gormley, speaking at a party conference

    Read more: There will be massive changes after this historic Irish election will take place

    The Green Party has announced the a General Election needs to be held in Ireland in the second half of January 2011. The Green Party was the minority party in the Fianna Fail led coalition government.

    Just minutes before Green Party leader, John Gormley, made the announcement this morning he informed Prime Minister Brian Cowen. He also said that he had expressed the Green Party’s disappointment in the Government’s recent decisions.

    The Fianna Fail-led government has been deeply criticized for its handling of the financial crisis, arguing right up to the last minute that it was not negotiating an IMF bailout when in fact subsequent events showed they were

    A statement released by the Greens said that the party had always said it would only continue in government as long as it would benefit the people. However it said the uncertainty in recent weeks had had a destabilizing effect.

    The party outlined three things that needed to be done: to produce a credible four-year plan, deliver a Budget for 2011 and secure funding support from the EU and IMF.

    Speaking at a Green Party press conference, Gormley said that the people of Ireland feel misled and betrayed. The Party said it has now reached the point where Irish people need political certainty and therefore need a General Election.

    Gormley explained that the decision had been made on Saturday night after a series of meetings.

    He said that he realised that last three weeks had been traumatic for the Irish people and that in the last week there had been real difficulties in terms of communications. He said the answers the Green Party were being given were not clear enough.

    Gormley made the Prime Minister aware of the Party’s decision at 11.30, only minutes before the press conference.

    A spokesperson for Prime Minister Brian Cowen said the Government remains focused on the Budget and the four-year plan

  • Munsterview
  • billy

    lol

    I see the Slugger obsession with SF continues apace.

    And, yet, despite the almost non-stop debate about SF’s activities, this blog just keeps getting it wrong.

    Look at the last Westminster elections…if you’d followed Slugger you would have predicted a SF collapse. Such was the bile spewed forth here by the same politically, irrelevant no-,marks for months in advance.

    In the end, of course, the Shinners did quite nicely, as predicted ON THE GROUND…you know, that place out there where real people exist?

    So much for the ‘blogosphere’!

    The same will happen in Jan’s elections in’t south. Yeah, the Slugger saddos sniggered at Adams’ analysis of the economy – which has proven to be correct…

    and now they’re backtracking as SF will capitalise on the mishandling of the southern pennies.

    Much as you should never trust a fart, never rely on a blog for your political info.

  • Munsterview

    When the events of 1969 exploded in the Northern part of this Island leading to the Low Intensity War of the following decades, it was already a quarter of a century from the end of the Second World War.

    France,Holland, Denmark, France England etc came together with their previous enemies, Germany the main instigator of WW2 and Italy to form the core of the EEC.

    All of the European Allied countries had suffered, some dreadfully under German occupation and Bombings and the Allies once the tide of war turned, equally wrought devastation on Germany. Political correctness have made discussion of the treatment of German prisoners of war taboo, but with the honorable exception of the UK run prison camps, prisoners were appalling treated post war and tens of thousands suffered death from starvation, illness and ill-treatment.

    By 1969 the EEC project was well under way and former enemies with this horrific history between them were co-operating to build a new and better Europe with a ‘no more war’ pledge at the core of it.

    How far would this project have got if all the English EEC MPE’s continued to berate the Germans and Italians with their war crimes? As portrayed in the ‘Boys From Brazil’ and the Odessa file, Old SS networks continued and see nothing wrong with Hitler and his policies aside from the fact that he did not win!

    Likewise on the English and Allied side they were those who were outrage at the rapid political rehabilitation of Germany and to a lesser extent, Italy.

    These negative, embittered ‘Opposnics’ former SS soldiers, Camp Guards, Gestapo, Police and other State functionaries without whom the daily application of Fascism would not have been possible, did not change their views or where possible, obstruction, they just eventually lost influence and age killed them off.

    Within a decade of the end of the war people of goodwill were building a New Europe from the ruins of the old. Within two they had made those objectives a concrete reality. That is why then and now I personally support the EU project for all its faults and lack of democracy that Alias correctly and necessarly, continue to highlight.

    It is now over forty years since the 1969 outbreak. Senator Billy Fox was killed in unfortunate circumstances in a localizes, bungled and unsanctioned event at the start of the Troubles.

    I know that the following weekend in at least one Southern City A leading member of Sinn Fein, microphone in hand in a number of occasions over the afternoon during a Sinn Fein Demonstration, publicly disassociated the local Movement from the killing and espressed sympathy with the families concerned. I also know that there was general outrage within all sections of the Republican Movement regarding the killing.

    I was traveling to work with a Veteran Republican the morning the killing was announced on the radio. He pulled in to a lay by hopping mad and swearing. “Another fucking job Arthur Guinness was in charge of by the looks of things” was his verdict. Legal considerations precent further comment on that matter.

    It is now over twice as long after Senator Billy Fox’s killing as when European MPE, some of them former service men that had experienced battlefield conditions put their differences aside to build a new and peaceful Europe. There is also people of goodwill in the North and on this Island on all sides who want to build a New Politics within a New All Island and inter Island framework the same as progressive Europeans have done in the EU.

    This will be no small undertaking or produce immediate results. Just like our European Politicians in the EU slowly building trust and goodwill, it will be slowly and systematical also in Stormount.

    We are not the only divided area in Europe, to give but one example, I know and love the Langdouc area in Southern France, they hate Northern France and what was done to the peoples of their region in the First Crusades where human blood in one city street came up to war horses knees after the whole city was but to the sword in the name of Christianity.

    For me as for many senior Republicans the Politics of a New Ireland and the frameworks for Governance are more important than a date for a United Ireland per se. Republicans who committed to the Peace Process have kept their word, the guns have stayed silent and the political process have been worked in as much as it can be worked in the present circumstances.

    In this I agree with Churchill dictum that Jaw Jaw is better than War, War any day.

    If we accept that old hatreds and war wounds had to be laid aside by the old Allied and Axis powers, to build a New Europe, when is the same thing going to happen here to build a New Ireland ?

    Turgon has a view on Republicans, it do not include political or any other accommodation or any of the things needed to build a new civic society!

    Oh yes, his views are carefully put and well articulated in fine, most times even elegant English. Enoch Powell was also a fine writer, I have his works on my library and regularly read him, like Churchill and Edmund Burke for his command of the English Language.

    However like Powell, just because Turgon can pen an elegant line, do not mean that his divisive, excluding politics is any more palatable for it, or have a future. This is also something that thankfully Northern Protestant Voters in mass realized ! That result was noted by Republicans such as myself and gave heart and promise for a new future !

    Now to Alan Maskey(unmasked) and since re-posting as alanmaskey. Quite simply this pseudo poster’s bile per se in not worth wasting comment on !

    However I ask all sincere sluggerites to carefully note this, whatever of the deliberate misspellings, odd outrageous comment etc, and other ‘tricks of the trade’ to disguise where he is really coming from, he is a skilled anti-Republican, anti-Nationalist polemic propaganda weaver, who only appear crude and crass as camouflage. Like his kind in the Continent that I referred to, his hate for Republicans and Left Wingers will probably go with him to his grave!

    Individuals who have done the State some service, especially if they had a little authority, can sometimes loose the run of themselves and think they are the State. This is especially so were once the State has dispensed with their services, they do not have a life aside from caring on old quarrels from the days in State service, when such activity gave them some status and significance.

    There are two views as to how the politics in this island will be, one is for an all inclusive framework and the other advocated by Turgon and Maskey et al for Republican exclusion. Which is more likely to bring stability and productive politics ?

    The next time Turgon rattles the bones of one of the ‘disappeared’ or Maskey brings up matters such as the killing of Senator of Billy Fox, please bear in mind their motivation.

    Just as Europeans had to move on from the events of WW2 to build a new Europe, so we must move on from the events of the past Low Intensity War to build a new future and new politics on this Island.

    One more relevant item in regard to my personal attitude to Northern events that arose in the course of the Low Intensity War, and my silence on this topic.

    In general, I do not commented on the ‘Disappeared’ or other such matters that happened within the Northern Command Area of the Irish Republican Army during the Low Intensity War . Since the ceasefire and the engagement in constitutional politics by Republicans, I leave comment and explanation on these sensitive, fraught matters to Sinn Fein Northern Parliamentary representatives.

    Reasonable readers and posters will appreciate my position on this and why it has to be so. However much I am baited for my silence on these subjects by the usual suspects, that is and will remain my position.