“Gerry Adams and his organisation are now fully absorbed into the apparatus of British rule in Ireland…”

The BBC reports that Northern Ireland Secretary of State, Owen Paterson, has rejected a Sunday Times report that talks were being sought with “dissident republicans” through intermediaries despite opposition from the Irish government. 

Meanwhile, Sinn Féin president, Gerry Adams, has said it’s “not a stunt” to seek talks with “the political groups linked to some armed republican faction”.  Or with “criminal gangs whom [they] consider has links with MI5″?  

His former speech-writer Jonathan Powell apparently agrees.  Although those Adams is reportedly seeking talks with disagree on the subject that might, or might not, be under discussion.

And others are more scathing in their criticism

[Des Dalton from Republican Sinn Fein] said Sinn Fein was now “absorbed into the apparatus of British rule”.

“Unfortunately Gerry Adams chose at that point not to listen to that advice and chose to embark on the road which was forecast where it would end up is where they are today,” Mr Dalton said.

“Gerry Adams and his organisation are now fully absorbed into the apparatus of British rule in Ireland and we feel we have absolutely nothing to say to them on that basis.”

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  • Steve

    I don’t expect you to go anywhere, anymore than I expect all the Irish people living in my neighbourhood here in England to leave. The difference, of course, is that the Irish here are not claiming sovereignty over this part of England, nor are they partitioning England into a Six County Northern England statelet split from the rest of the country. Hope that helps.

  • slappymcgroundout

  • PaddyReilly

    In English as she was spoke among Northern Ireland Catholics in my time, the word ‘Brits’ signified members of the occupying British Army. So if you are indeed a ‘Brit’, the answer is go where your regiment posts you: Afghanistan is I believe a popular destination. Fortunately, there are very few Brits left in Northern Ireland. I don’t suppose they were sorry to leave, either.

    There are however certain locals who use their religion and their remote ancestry to argue that they are not from where they come from, but are, in some magical way, actually from a neighbouring island. These we call Prods or Huns. Here the requirement is not to absent yourself, but merely to readjust your mindset, and adapt to a new world in which genealogy and ancestral hubris are confined to the appropriate cultural organisations and do not obtrude on politics and debates on the governance of society.

  • slappymcgroundout

    Ahh, once again the Irish getting the history wrong. First, you didn’t fight British regular units, but Canadian volunteer militia units. Second, we didn’t order you back. You tried to rush back to the US when regular British Army units were nearing the vicinity. Third, you were arrested by the US, via the gunboat Michigan, in US waters, before you could land back in the US. Fourth, you never had our support for your lame and pathetic invasion attempt. Fifth, it wasn’t long after your lame and pathetic invasion attempt that the Confederation of Canada was formed. Glad to see that you Fenians inspired Her Majesty’s subjects to form a nation, though not the nation you had hoped.

  • sammymehaffey

    Paddy
    What a wonderful post!
    And where did you and your like come fom?
    It seems we all came from Africa – the only part of the world not iced over.

  • Dr. Jo

    “ancestral hubris ” ?

  • Skintown Lad

    So you don’t want me to go anywhere, Steve. A relief to hear it, but if that’s really the case why do Nationalists talk of their aspirations that the ‘Brits’ ‘leave’?

    I’ll tell you why, it’s because in the Nationalist psyche unionists in NI do not really count as the ‘Brits’. The ‘Brits’ are the robocops without names or families, the marauding force that arrived around lunchtime on Thursday and will hopefully ‘go back to where they came from’ soon. The unionists, meanwhile, are considered little pretendy brits, confused sorts who have got their sense of identity all wrong. Either that or they are just conveniently ignored. This fits better with the kind of idealist simplification of the ‘problem’ that you have neatly exemplified for us with your reply. Much easier to present the situation of being one of ‘foreigners’ occupying a sovereign land, thereby condensing 600 years of constitutional and demographic change into the course of last week, than to consider that the British people have been in Ireland for hundreds of years and established sovereignty by all and any measure of international law.

    So next time a Nationalist talks so flippantly about when the Brits are going to leave, have a think about whose aspirations and identity are not given ‘parity of esteem’. Gerry Adams is hardly a friend to unionists but at least he appears to understand this fairly basic point.

  • Skintown Lad

    Excellent, thanks Paddy. Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, Exhibit A.

  • Alan Maskey

    Steve: What general part of England do you live in? I was in Kilburn, Cricklewood and Camden just a few weeks ago and I was there much earlier too. There were over 1 million people born in Ireland living in England then. The areas mentioned above are now all Muslims, Jamaicans whatever. The Irish have moved on, integrated, gone home whatever.

    Meanwhile, the Loyalists in and around Belfast (they are, as recent elections show, a minority in most of the Occupied Six Counties) harp on about how they democratically exterminated the locals. Of course, they cannot sleep easy as they think that as they sowed, so also shall they reap.

    Johnny: words form your post that sound Loyalist. Now maybe you are a Loyalist or a PSFer being trnasformed by the Peace Process, I know not. Words: …the political and practical reality that Ireland will not be united until the majority of NI want it. …be dealt with by the security forces and Sinn Fein are going to have to accept that ..

    Skintown: Visit Serbian Orthodox church. You wil like the statues of generals. (no disrespect to the short changed Serbs)

    Reply

  • sammymehaffey

    Alan
    have you never heard of a catholic loyalist/unionist. You should get out of the ghetto more and please stop confusing religion with politics. It is an insult to everyone to asume that one’s religion means they have to have a particular political agenda or allegiance.

  • PaddyReilly

    What happened in the GFA was that some Republicans buckled and adopted the British position.

    Old School, I think you have to view things from the Southern point of view. NI may be an undemocratic gerrymander, but to try to absorb it into the Republic while it still has a Unionist majority would cause endless problems.

    At present we have 8 DUP MPs, 1 Lady Sylvia, 1 Alliance, 3 SDLP, and 5 SF. That is a workable Unionist majority. However, all that is needed now is for the DUP to lose one seat and SF or the SDLP to gain one (and Unionists have lost a seat at every General Election in the last 3 decades):-

    Year/Unionist seats/Total seats

    1983 15/17
    1987 14/17
    1992 13/17
    1996 13/18
    2001 11/18
    2005 10/18
    2010 9 /18

    The next result will be a workable Nationalist majority. When that happens, negotiation for reunification may commence in earnest. The point is, when it is apparent that there is no longer a Unionist majority even in the gerrymandered area, significant sections of the Unionist population will bow to the will of the majority.

    Thus a little patience will pay off.

  • lamhdearg

    2010 9/18 8 dup 1 lady sylvia 1 N long = 10 The people of east belfast did not elect a irish nationlist, wind your neck in.

  • Munsterview

    One of the reasons I am reluctant to to do any of these things in other than broad sweeps is there is always a nit picker out there more interested in a misplaced letter or word than the spirit of a posting. At the end I qualified what I posted.

    Joe C wanted information, what I gave him was in accordance with the facts as I know them and as somebody whose extended family was steeped in IRB activity during that period including my own Great Grandfather, I just may have a few different insights to Government spin.

    Just as ‘Wee Sammy’ and ‘Greg the mouth’ cannot resist a poke a poke at Sinn Fein in the assembly, irrespective of however it looks for the public optic or adds grist to the dissident mill, so also in Slugger the same mentality is constantly paraded.

    I was requested for information, I gave it and I also suggested links where the poster and other readers could look the subject for themselves and I was not in control of what their searches threw up.

    This instinctive ‘put the boot into anything to do with the teuges’ including past history can be understood when it comes from the usual knuckle draggers with poverty of expression.

    I would like to know what your reasons are, aside from sharing the same mentality of course and giving bigotery a more sophisticated and coherent expression!

  • lamhdearg

    utv news at six claims dissidents have tried to kill three people with under car bombs this week, One of them was a cathloic the other two it seems have no religion.

  • PaddyReilly

    They didn’t elect a Unionist either. Naomi Long is a nice lady- Funny though, there is talk of forming a pan-Unionist front to see her off.

    And John East Belfast toured his eponymous constituency warning Methodist ministers’ wives that Alliance are unsound on the Union.

    They are: agnostic I would call it. For as long as there is a Unionist majority they are content with the Union. But in the event of there not being a Unionist majority, they will be content with the alternative. They will not be manning any barricades to thwart the wish of the majority. So my count is 9 Unionist 8 Nat 1 other.

    Lady Sylvia’s position is somewhat similar, and I think those of her constituents who voted for her are the same.

  • lamhdearg

    paddy your right, naomi is a nice lady, As for her not being a unionist small u maybe but a small u is not an n.

  • PaddyReilly

    No and I didn’t say it was. Alliance, in its whole philosophy, lies outside the Nationalist/Unionist paradigm. It isn’t small n and it isn’t small u either.

  • joeCanuck

    I’d like some of what you’re smoking; a wee bit of delusion can help to pass a rainy afternoon.

  • Munsterview

    JoeC
    1) You but confirm the point that I have been constantly making here in these postings that what we had in the North was a classical Low Intensity Warfare situation.

    2) The response of the movement was always political as well as military, in the pre hunger strike build up of the republican movement the military side had prominence. Post Hunger strikes gains were made that demonstrated the new opportunity for effectiveness of politics and hence a resource commitment that had not previously existed ( only so much to go around)

    3) Once the political process started to show positive results there was a trade off with the ‘military side’ in that a successful operation in purely military terms could also be a public relations disaster in political terms if they were civilian casualties with the resulting negative press propaganda.

    Aside from the bedrock Republicans it was always about ‘hearts and minds’ with outreach to the wider Nationalist community, Southern Ireland and the Irish Abroad if ghettoization of Sinn Fein was to end.

    4) By a process of natural progression the IRA general military campaign was tapering off as, first off, full capacity use was no longer needed to achieve objectives and second, some of these operations were for the reasons given, could have a negative effect.

    5) MI6 Military Intelligence and MI5 politicos had ceased singing from the same hymn sheet long before the ceasefire, no military commander be they IRA or British want to see their men die needless; MI6 and British Military GHQ did not want men dying just for optics once a possible political settlement was on the cards.

    It must be remembered much ot the work behind the scenes and the ‘unofficial contacts’ were never acknowledged. ( I had one such meeting with a leading DUP figure who knew exactly who I was, and my opinion of him did not interfere with a very focused, civilized, business like exchange )

    6) The IRA could have continued to prosecute their campaign indefinitely, the capacity of that campaign was restricted my the movement leadership proportional to the the political advance until maintaining the organization became an encumbrance and net drain in resources that could be more productively used in the political sphere. Millitary capacity, to put it in simplistic terms, then became an expendable bargining chip.

    7) I have no hesitation in openly admitting the success of MI5 / 6 penetration and control of the IRA’s own security division. There are questions there for the then Leadership that need to be answered and explanations owed to the movement and supporters as a whole. There is a collective Responsibility in this regard and it is one matter that ‘has not gone away you know’!

    There is also the question for those in political control of the security services….. when was this control achieved and how lives were lost while Brit Intel forces played ‘the hall of mirrors game’ and what operations were directed by proxy?

    8) As the Canary Wharf demonstrated, right up to the end the IRA were prepared to use military force where that force could be productively used, a lesson not lost on the Brits either, hence serious engagement in the peace process and the establishing of Institutions.

    9) Any lingering illusions that the IRA or Irish Republicans had about the sincerity of British intentions of ‘getting out’ went out the window in the early seventies when the British Civil Authority could not enforce posession orders for houses they had granted to catholics forced out of their homes.

    Once the pig overturned the first lorryload of furniture, that was the relization that we were in not for years but decades….. and so it proved.

    After discussions with veterans at that period I personally made decisions about a career, business and family as I knew that that all these would have to be fitted in around decades of movement activity. I was not the only one either.

    External perspectives may be different, this is an insider view and may count for something depending on reader objectivity!

  • qwerty12345

    “the British people have been in Ireland for hundreds of years and established sovereignty by all and any measure of international law”

    This actually made me laugh out loud. First off the concept of International law is rather modern but if it were applied to Britains historical involvement in Ireland then uh you wouldnt have a leg to stand on.

    Im thinking of the bit in the geneva convention where it says you cant occupy anothers land and bring in your own settlers.

    Anyhoo.

    I find unionists very hard to understand, and id genuinely like to understand them. I think from your post you see yourself as British rather than as an Irishman who believes in a political union with Britain. Correct me if Im wrong.

    The Brits out thing as far as I know never meant more than the British Army.

  • Alan Maskey

    So many points:

    Munsterview: At the time of Operation Harvest guys like Brendan O’Boyle and Joe Christle did not take orders from IRA big wigs partly because they regarded those big wigs as the wankers that they were. Joe Christle was one of hte most talented post Civil war Republicans ever. O’Boyle ended up on his own and dying by his own bomb: shades of RIRA/CIRA logistically. Christle is one of many bright sparks who stopped wasting their time. Sean Garland was also a good operator, especially in Operation Harvest. Is he in the USA yet? Boyscout operations will drive off these type of people; CIRA is probably a good example and McKevitt found you can be a good QM but a lousy C/S.

    People drone on about Omagh all the time. But Omagh was one of a series of “spectaculars”. And, after Omagh, many of the logistical back up walked away so no more Omaghs.

    Paddy Reilly: Though Adams has played his cards well, a nationalist majority of seats will mean nothing as Unionists/Protestants are not democrats. They will bully until they get what they want just as they did after 1920, beating up elected officiials and threatneing others at the point of a gun.
    And most Protestants are Unionists and we all know Crown Catholics so forget that red herring.

    Though PSF have wankers a plenty, they are not the plaything of the Brits and it is silly to say so. They are mostly Ulster based (including Louth) and figure there is more than one way to skin a cat. They have come a very long way since they had to have their Ard Fheis in Ballyfermot, complements of the Communist Party.

    Northerners vote for them because they reckon they are best suited to handle the Unionist anti democrats.

  • PaddyReilly

    Though Adams has played his cards well, a nationalist majority of seats will mean nothing as Unionists/Protestants are not democrats. They will bully until they get what they want just as they did after 1920, beating up elected officials and threatening others at the point of a gun.

    There is something to be said for this point of view, but I was criticised a while back for failing to register that there is a spectrum of Unionist opinion, which differs considerably in its attitudes, and I think this applies more to you.

    Some Protestants and some (more) Unionists are not democrats: the whole spirit of Unionism is reactionary and anti-democratic; but equally there Unionists aplenty and even more Protestants who are prepared to throw in the towel and go with the will of a Nationalist majority, if and when there is a Nationalist majority.

    The trouble is that forums like this attract the more voluble kind of Unionist, and you could be forgiven for thinking that they are all of this type: they are not.

    The victory of Alliance in Belfast and Lady S in North Down is, imho, a sign that this new willingness to compromise is afoot.

  • Munsterview

    You are entitled to to your opinion on Joe Christle and his followers but there is a difference in semanticity and objective history.

    It is one thing to exchange opinions in a forum such as this, it is quite another to sit around a table in a properly conducted seminar taking apart ‘Operation Harvest’ and the reasons for it’s failure. In these exercises people like Joe and Costello have all their faults and mistakes laid bare as well as the glamor aspect.

    For a republican such places may be interesting but they are not often very edifying or reflect too much credit on the ‘stars’ concerned.

    People like Gerry McCarthaigh, Dublin GHQ & Cork, Moss Twoomey, Jack Hartnett and O’Buachalla, McCabe and such like who had been through 40’s internment and the rebuild of the movement afterwards were all sound long service men. Your abusive dismissive terms are sadly misplaced and undeserved.

    As late as 49 any credibility the IRA had was because of its reputation, on a structural or operational basis it was mainly a paper organization, the early fifties were not much better and yet by fifty six they were in a position to mount a liberation war ? In a pigs ear they were !

    The IRA needed another year, possibly two or more to have been properly prepared : Joe and his offshoot jumped the gun and forced the IRA hand. Joe may deserve some recognition for the 56 campaign starting when it did, but equally he and his lone ranger types by their actions bear no small part of the blame for the failure of operational harvest.

    Mavericks that temporary strut the stage and stand in the limelight can appear larger than life, this last campaign has thrown up more than a few, yet other than generating dozens of newspaper headlines and soubriquets that became part of pop culture for a passing period what was their real contribution to the Republican struggle ?

    I do not question Joe’s sincerity, his leadership qualities or his many other abilities. However he is now just a footnote in the history of a failed campaign. His personality ensured the first and contributed towards the second……and the rest is history!

    Contextualized and shorn of the glamor aspect, Joe’s contribution to the 56 campaign can be seen for exactly what it is and history will not be kind to him, be that undeserving or otherwise!

  • Alan Maskey

    John Turnley is no longer with us so he cannot express an opinion. Uniionist Protestants have a laagar mentality; they think the world is against them (maybe they are right). Their historical relfex has been to circle the wagons and marginalise or kill Protestant dissidents.

    After PSF did so well in the 6 co elections, Unioniat posters hewre blabbed on about the need for unity, to stop the Nationaist hordes winning. I guess either that unity will be achieved or thye will further disintegrate.

    Though PSF goes from strength to strength in the 6 cos, I reckon they might eventually end up splititng the way SFWP did when the new gneration wants to leave Adams and the other aging “democractic centralists” behind.

    Either way. PSF is not the plaything of the Brits, though the Brits undoubtedly have a huge influence and PSF are not Tamil Tigers or Shining Path; (are any more members going bird spotting in Colombia or is that also finished?)

  • Alan Maskey

    History was kind to Joe Christle. He was a major trade union acitivist and Ras Tailteann activist, a superb organiser. Gerry MacCarthaigh was a Cork batchelor, whose neighbours did not even miss him when he was interned; the type of guy the Movement (I thought Adams consigned that word to histiory’s trashbin) shake down for financial gain.

    If anyone who knows Republicanism had to pick their 1950s team, Christle would certainly be on it and the others would not even warm up the subs’ bench. Fact. And your opinion, or your grannies who fought in 1798 or the old codgers you have your learned meetings with do not matter. In fact, you sound like a loyal RSF member as they love raking up all these also rans.

    Which brings me back on track. The theolgical bent of Iirsh Repiublicanism makes it shed thinking people; it has no intellegencia and that makes it almost unique in mainstream Irish politics. (I exclude the Uniionist parties) .

    Adams has run away with the cream of the crop just like Dev did before him. Then there are those, like Sean McBride and Christle who “fall by the wayside”. Adams has done well to keep the cream of the crop and to keep building. Whether PSF will “win” I do not know. But they have a plan and it seems to be going well for them. Getting the real string pullers to help them will not be easy for democratic centralists.

    And as regards today’s asymmetric warfare, give me a break. That cannot happen in a small island. The sea is too small and there are not enough fish.

    Yes the dissidents seem to be getting a run right now but it is so small and petty as to be irrelevant.

    Let’s see if PSF get fully house trained. It will depend on the next generation after Adams and whether Adams and his mates can actually relinquish power.

  • Alan Maskey

    I don’t want to personalise this but theologically pure Republicanism has been bleeding gifted leadrs/people like Christle since at least 1922. And it cannot win without a large stock of those people. Adams has retiained enough and, say what we like about him, he is a leader. People praise McGuinness so much he has to be suspect.

    And Ruane and othrs are suspect because they seem to be incompetent. Their biggest crime and that of Mary Lou and other no hopers is they are there because Adams wants lackeys. Narcissists usally do.

  • Munsterview

    Contextualization and objectivity.

    I dealt with Joes record only in relation to his republican activities. His social standing, his accomplishments in other areas of life aside from the specifics under discussion, his fine sportsmanship, his trade union activities were not within my orbit.

    There is no question that most mavericks have that indefinable ‘it’ factor and Joe by all accounts had it in spades, I am not in any detracting from his overall personality. Indeed had he channelled his undoubted abilities and energies into private enterprise and personal financial success he could have been right up there with Tony O’Riely and others.

    In this regard the late Redmond O’Sullivan of kerry once made a telling observation about a succesfull business man who had quite a bit of activity under his belt from an earlier stage of his life…….. ” The same brains that are need to rob a bank are the ones that can fill the safes of one too”!

  • Symbol

    Your straight line is deceptive when you look at the detail.

    2010 Unionist 50.6% Nationalist 42.0% Alliance 6.3% Others 1.1%
    2005 Unionist 51.4% Nationalist 41.8% Alliance 3.9% Others 2.9%
    2001 Unionist 51.8% Nationalist 42.7% Alliance 3.6% Others 1.9%
    1997 Unionist 49.3% Nationalist 40.2% Alliance 8.0% Others 2.5%
    1992 Unionist 50.4% Nationalist 33.5% Alliance 8.7% Others 7.4%
    1987 Unionist 54.2% Nationalist 32.5% Alliance 10.0% Others 3.3%
    1983 Unionist 57.1% Nationalist 31.3% Alliance 8.0% Others 3.6%

  • Munsterview

    Alan

    I kept the point about ‘personality politics’ separate as it is too important to be lost in a long posting as it do go the nub of the substance of politics.

    Mary Lou is a good example : Sinn Fein is the only party political party I know where women are knocked in the press for looking good. We have another fine example here in Munster, a bright lass with brains to burn and a raft of academic acredidations to prove it. However the length of her skirt ( either too long or too short…… she can never seem to get it just right for the press) has gathered as many head lines as her political statements.

    This person has had elected office experience and performed competently yet in all her public functions yet the dam hemline will get the headlines every time. This also is part of Mary Lou’s problem……. attractive women who are associated with republicanism cannot be there just for politics so the press are always trying for another angle.

    Since Sinn Fein are game for any sort of knocking especially from the Independent press group in particular, this snide, sexism has gone unchallenged for so long it has taken hold. It is one thing to see this from the usual suspects, it is quite another to see it from an apparently political literate source that should know better!

    Men are not the only victims. Jackie Healy Rae personified Fianna Fail in Kerry. As a back-room man he had forgotten more than a dozed HQ guys could ever learn. However the suits in Dublin needed a suit in Kerry for ‘image’ and Jackie did not fit their profile.

    This was the main cause of the infamous FF Kerry split, other things like the ODonoghues protecting their patch played a part but in the main a fashion statement was preferable to Jackie irrespective of political nonuse and experience.

    The very same commentators who decry the lack of substance in Irish politics North and South are part of the same people who brought a lot of this about with their concentration on ‘Image’ over substance!

  • PaddyReilly

    Unionist posters have blabbed on about the need for unity, to stop the Nationalist hordes winning

    They tend to come out with these antiquated ideas which worked in the past but are useless now. Unionist unity cannot help at all in two of the elections, Euro and Assembly, because these use transferable voting, and if the Lib Dems manage to get Alternative Voting through for Westminster, it will be irrelevant there also.

  • Alan Maskey

    Martin Ferris, a leader, cannot string two words together. His daughter is a story only because she has no dress sense. That is normal.
    Healy Rae would be described as a bog man. Or a cute hoor who gets big contracting jobs from Kerry Co Council. He is part of waht is wrong with Ireland and FF.
    I watched Bradley and others speak about the Glenane gang at Stormont. One of the PSF speakers was a truly awful speaker; O’Dowd was good. But they all take orders from Beardy. And who does Beardy take his orders from?

    PSF are probably making the right choice. Poc fadas at Stormont, gombeen men in Kerry. Big fund raisers in New York.

  • Munsterview

    Alan,

    Your objectivity is in question !

    Ferris was O”C of prisoners twice in Portlaois and one of the best prisoner commanders there, he won and held the respect of all he dealt with. He was also one of those chosen to sell the peace process in the States and the small few that did that were not carelessly picked.

    Far from not being able to string two words together, Ferris may not be an orator but he can give as fine and passionate unscripted speech as another average republican speaker. He more than held his own in any clashes in Kerry Co Council.

    Ferris has not shone in the Dail admittedly…….but that is not his fault. There is a back-room where as much as possible of what is said in the Dail is scripted and prepared, including ( God help us, the jokes). While I agree with a certain amount of coherence, this current system in nothing other than micro management of the most stymying kind.

    Issues cannot be independently raised, they must be mediated through this section and it is increasingly like New Labor, on message, on cue and F*** all to say other than the sound bite for the six o’clock news!

    As for Ms T. I already made the point about dress and press. That young lady moved easily in Washington society while she worked in that place and there was nothing wrong with either her dress sense or her manner, in fact because of who she was she had big shoes to fill….and did impressing all she came in contact with.

    Healy Rae….. off topic. What I referred to was Jackie Healy Rae’s people skills in his own patch, even his people skills generally. Jackie is an old showman from the swinging sixties, unbelievable as that may sound and this species were not renowned as shrinking violets…… or conservative attitudes in the back of the van when it came to female fans! His party organizational skills were also legendary.

    His politics are another matter, I agree with you on that, they in the main are symptomatic of the worst of Fianna Fail greed. On the year his son was elected to office, both Jackie and son took Southern Health Board council seats….and the expenses that were perks of the job. Two in the same remote village leaving other areas of the county without a rep! I never advocated support for his politics, I but drew attention to his political skills.

    I have grave reservations about some of the ways PSF operates: but credit where credit is due… ‘an poc fada’ was a good PR stunt. It was the silly season, there was nothing much happening and SF managed to milk a month news headlined out of belt of a hurley. Even the Kilkenny manager could not manage that at the start of the season!

    Just wait until next year when SF unveil the fact that Big Ian won four medals for the under thirteen, dancing in the solo jig and hornpipe section in the Derry and Armagh feishs of 1943. Boy will they get some headlines when himself and Flatley do a turn on the stage set up in front of Carson the Hurlers statue! If they can keep the fact that Gerry is taking flute playing lessons to accompany them under wraps until then they may just pull it off again!

  • JJ malloy

    MV

    They could not be defeated in the sense that it would continue to take human and material resources to ensure the increasing minimization of their campaign-that is certainly true. The amount of money spent on the counter terror campaign, along with the other money sent to the open sore that was NI during the troubles, was certainly not insignificant.

    But by any objective measure, they were defeated. They have given up their arms, and the 6 counties are still ‘occupied’. Ireland is not united. How many times did we hear Adams, Morrison, P O’neil, etc say that there would be no ceasefire until the Brits left? That they would never put down their weapons until a 32 county republic was a reality? Too many times to count, but that is exactly what has happened.

    True, it was not an unconditional surrender. The boys were let out of jail (along with the loyalist scum). The police force was reformed. I’m not sure that couldn’t have been accomplished earlier….like 1972???

    I don’t have much time at present to continue, but one has to wonder what Bobby Sands would think of his pal Brownie sitting in Stormont, administering British rule in a $5,000 dollar suit with a big smile.

  • lamhdearg

    The last comments on this post where irish nats at each others throats.

  • Munsterview

    Gnat !

  • Alan Maskey

    Lamhie: If you fea Sinn Fein, and/or are interested in its progress/regress, then you should be interested in the fact that they have inarticulate yobos representing them. Jack Crowe makes even Ferris soubd articulate. They have been massive under performers in Leinster house. House trained perhaps as they are in Washington where there main supporters include ar mongers like Peter King.
    Ferris should have stuck to the fishing and the football, where he might have ben something. North Kerry alsop has Jimmy Deenihan, captain of the greatest football team evr. Before him, N Kerry had no Fine Gael TD. He got enough votes for two quotas. Now they have the Shergar murderer. So much for Kerry politics. Still at least Lowry is in Tipp.

  • Alan Maskey

    Sorry for the typos. Not good at multi tasking. I wonder what people would think if RIRA did a John Corcoran/Shergar on these Leinster House muppets. Would the Provos revet to form (if the arthritis let them)?

  • Munsterview

    Nice one Alan!

    I will leave you and Lamhd slag this one out between you as this the level best suited to your level and mindset !

  • Munsterview

    Goodness knows I am no fan of the hapless Kenny but at times one has to feel for him! As if he did not have enough to contend with, it seems from the foregoing posting that the ‘Sergar murderer’ it seems is now lurking within Fine Gael ranks. Will it ever end for the poor man !

  • JJ malloy

    Operational Harvest had Zero chance of success, whether or not Christie jumped the gun by a year or so. Their tactics were 30 years behind, for starters.

  • Alan Maskey

    http://www.herald.ie/opinion/conor-lenihan-twomeys-grasp-on-history-as-weak-as-his-knowledge-of-my-brothers-condition-2296040.html

    This post has a Fianna Fail TD uncoupling FF the Republican Party from the Republican side in the Civil War. Will PSF now please do the same and say that the Troubles had nothing to do with them and that many were not even born then. Certainly, the hands of Mary Lou are clean as are the well manicured fingers of Gerry Adams. This uncoupling is an important part of house training 101 for lapdogs.

    I wonder will Martin Ferris enter a horse for the Shergar Cup. Great service to Ireland that.

  • Munsterview

    “……..I wonder will Martin Ferris enter a horse for the Shergar Cup. Great service to Ireland that….”

    Second or third time this baited hook has been dropped in the water without any bites, not even a nibble !

    Softly….softly aint going to catche any monkey here……..especially one with a long tooth and a grey tatch however if you spell out what is causing an itch in your underpants……….. and it is interesting enough, somebody just may come out to play !