Robinson scores a palpable, if tactical, hit with the Daily Telegraph

Interesting front page story from my old Daily Telegraph colleagues Rosa Prince and Robert Winnett who may not have accurately read the implications of their story for their paper’s favourite man in the race

Effectively they are saying that Cameron may come to rely on a party they are currently engaged in a life and death struggle with in South Antrim (erm, the day after beating his way through hell, high water and volcanic ash to a part of the country he’s only likely to win one seat in).

He may, surely. But I should rather think that the DUP will one of the very last ports of call on his list, just before talking to the dreaded Scots Nats and Plaid, presumably…

Such a ‘victory’ would almost certainly breed a decisive defeat for what’s left of UCU-NF (as they are on the ballot paper tomorrow), or the CUs (as we see them on their posters across all of Northern Ireland bar FST)… Perhaps it is a classic case of the Westminster village not getting the game in the rest of the UK…

Either way, I’d now chalk last night’s debate up as a decisive – if strictly tactical – win for Peter Robinson… Not least since it is not his voters who’ll be reading that deadening headline, but those better disposed to his political victims rivals in UCU-NF in the prosperous middle class…

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  • Framer

    This is a spoof or spinning story by journalists who don’t know their way around NI politics probably sourced maliciously by Mandy,

  • Argosjohn

    “a part of the country he’s only likely to win one seat in”

    Which country is that? Ireland or England?

    Mind you, the relaince on the DUP (Sinn Fein’s partnersa in crime as it were) shows what British political parties are made of.

  • Supporting a candidate that will slash public sector jobs is not wise. Cameron’s policies for N.I. are to say the least ‘not beneficial’.
    It’s a nice bit of ‘British Posturing’ but behind the public image is a rotten apple that will in turn effect DUP voters. Do your homework…

  • Actually they are beneficial. We need an end to the dependency culture in the UK generally but it is chronic here.

    erm, the day after beating his way through hell, high water and volcanic ash to a part of the country he’s only likely to win one seat in

    A vote of confidence in the long term goals of the CUs. He said as much in his interview with Maillie. Or is that comment more a note of disgruntlement that a leader isn’t has interested in the insane commentary passing as ‘tactics’ within the media’s own election frenzy?

  • it seems some people are incapable of a basic comprehension.

  • Neil

    A Tory insider said: “There will be no problem with signing up the unionists if that’s what it takes to get David into Downing Street. We’re sure we could do a deal.”

    Given the fact that the Telegraph has the Tory party’s ear, this statement should be worrying wee Reg. While many UCU inclined voters here might wish to pretend that they think the principles of the Tory Party will prevent them ditching Reg should Reg be unsuccessful, the majority of people know that should the 10 seats the DUP may claim be enough to make DC PM, DC will do the best thing for his party and deal.

    Especially given the fact that all the DUP want is the chequebook out. Nice straightforward deal with the excuse of funding NI extra to help the peace bed in or some such cover. But whatever is necessary for DC to get the PM job, that’s what he’ll do. His promises to a failed party in NI won’t cost him a second’s thought.

  • Mick Fealty

    Neil,

    Jeffrey was on Talkback denying this was anything to do with the DUP… Now, I cannot say for definite, but ‘Tory insider’ can mean anything you want it to mean…

    Why would an ‘inside insider’ wreck Cameron’s efforts in NI the day after in the Telegraph? However it was done, this was a nice spoiler… and one over UCU-NF to the DUP…

  • Neil

    Why would an ‘inside insider’ wreck Cameron’s efforts in NI the day after in the Telegraph?

    That’s a fair enough point/question. But it could be explained in at least a couple of ways, not least setting the scene for Dave to cut a deal with the DUP should that end up being enough to command a workeable majority and should the UUs lose everything. All highly speculative. We shall have to wait and see to find out how the cards fall.

  • private sector worker

    Most state services are monopolies with no shareholders, and excess monopoly returns can accrue only to the workforce, as above-market wages or better job protection. Also, government attitudes to public sector pay are complicated by the ‘client-voter’ problem: when over 30% of a country’s workers are working directly for the state, that’s a big share of the voting public with a strong interest in defending their own pay and prospects.
    However:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/aug/23/public-sector-inefficiency-costs

    The sheer indulgence of the hugely bloated NI Civil Service is impossible to defend. Everyone regards it as a useless joke and its employees as well paid wasters.

  • dundonald voter

    i think we could be in for a few shocks in this election. i for one am not convinced that the bel tel polls are a good pointer for these elections. i mean if they phoned were i live then the dup and the punt would be on zero points. i think the working classes in east belfast will desert robinson and then that leaves me thinking were is his vote going to come from? middle unionism has for years despised the man

  • While this particular story could well be DUP-inspired, it’s not naivete on the part of the Westminster village to expect a deal to be done. If anything it is naive to think that Northern Ireland politics will trump Westminster politics if the Tories are half a dozen seats short of a majority.

    Cameron will talk to the DUP ahead of the nationalists, and also ahead of the Lib Dems and their demands for electoral reform.

    The DUP will be first in the queue. That’s clearly what the Tories expect, what the media expect and what the DUP expect.

    UCUNF don’t really have much to complain about. There’s already one joint candidate in Fermanagh & South Tyrone after all.

    Clearly, DUP support in a hung parliament was an element in the Hatfield House agenda. Any idea that ‘normal’ politics would trump the orange card went out the window at that point.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    As we all know from painful experience being overly keen is often an indication that a relationship is heading for disaster and as Wee Reggie made it too early to the church in full Orange bridal dress with blue trim to await the groom he must have been feeling about as comfortable as an Ulster rugby player(Prod tradition) being (unfairly) subjected to the rebel song that is the Southern Irish territories National anthem.

    With news filtering through, via the headlines in British newspapers, that the groom has been indefinitely delayed as a result of an unseemly liaison with his deadliest enemy behind the bicycle shed of an East Belfast Orange Hall spare a thought for poor Wee Reggie, all dressed up to consummate his life long dream and realising to his horror that he has being jilted.

    Spare a thought too for Reg’s family and friends who have themselves been in denial as they now try comfort him sobbing uncontrollably in his finery as he flings the unwanted flowers through the door of the church.

    And as Reg reflects on what might have been perhaps he will spare a thought too for the many others who have been in his sad shoes and had to live with the humiliation of being abandoned by foreign politicians who came a calling with sweet promises and smooth words only for them to get their wicked, wicked way and then slip quietly back to England.

  • dundonald voter

    two things have struck me recently. the bbc spotlight on north belfast election when pastor madden was talking about the need for regeneration in the area. standing beside derelict house after derelict house in tigers bay, isnt the mp the protestant champion nigel dodds? what have these people achieved for the people? will they like fools go out and vote for these people while they live in slums?

  • dundonald voter

    the other was jim wilson’s question on the politics show about how working class loyalist’s / unionists have been left behind. isnt peter the punt the great champion in east belfast? sammy wilson replied about ;ack of education in these areas yet the education system is obviously failing these people in these areas. another area the dup have failed the protestant people. i believe they want the people to remain there because if they were educated they would see these people for what they are. featherer of their own wee nests.

  • Dependancy culture is so prevalent because there is nothing to build upon. Lack of jobs infrastructure etc… That’s the major issue. It’s a case of starve the farmer that can’t grow corn…
    Cutting benefits needs to happen at some stage, but decent employment needs to be the alternative that is offered.

    Otherwise they have nothing. Only a very ignorant person would not realise that!

  • Greenflag

    Neil ,

    ‘His promises to a failed party in NI won’t cost him a second’s thought.’

    Yes it will . I make at least three seconds . One to remember who they are , two to forget the entire UCUNF comedy of errors and three to ask his assistant to bring him a double Scotch malted 😉

  • Greenflag

    IWSMWDI ,

    The image of Reggie in bridal attire casting aside flowers through the door of the church is one that will forever remain embedded in the cartoonist’s history of NI . Already I can see Knoxie reaching for his weapons of satirical destruction come Friday 😉

  • Greenflag

    Dundonald voter ,

    You make some interesting points re East/North Belfast .

    ‘ I think the working classes in east belfast will desert robinson and then that leaves me thinking were is his vote going to come from? middle unionism has for years despised the man’

    All of that may be true but ‘fear ‘ of the green be it SDLP or SF will triumph over any fresh political departures . They could of course choose to vote for Naomi Long or Lo but that might be expecting too much from the working class loyalists in those areas . I still think Robinson will win comfortably enough and his performance on the leaders live debate should have been enough to see him through . Whichever way one looks at it the man has made a remarkable comeback from serious personal family issues that would have destroyed most politicians . Even more so than Gerry Adams imo.

  • Harry Jay

    Of course he scored a great tactical victory.
    Peter Robinson is in the DUP and is therefore a good man. More and more people are realising this fact and we are going to have a very good election.

  • dundonald voter

    greenflag i think robinson is in for a shock to morrow. as i said from ballybeen tullycarnet braniel newtownards road i havent heard anyone say a good thing about the man. his performance on the leaders debate last night was all that was. john simpson hit it on the head on the nolan show to day. there policies (all parties) are just alice in wonderland and all that say there is actually no substance to it. i mean devolved government has been here for 3 years and the topic of the private sector should have been in their control to actually do something and what have we had? zilch

  • dundonald voter

    wot have they done for the buzz word private sector? can anyone please tell me in the last 3 years. and we listen to these people. like i said greenflag were is robinson getting his votes? and by the way i think in tigers bay working class east belfast the orange and green card is worn out. they see these people claim 1600 beds and 500 pens and whatever else and some of them are asked to live on £50 per week. i dont think they are as stupid as they once were and will allow themselves to be taken for the ride they have before

  • dundonald voter

    as i said greenflag watch nigel dodds proclaim in the dup video for the election how well northern ireland is doing and then watch the north belfast election special on bbc were rows and rows of houses in tigers bay are in desperate need of regeneration and he is the champion mp!! by the way i was talking to a few people on the shankill road and they were telling me that when they needed housing with the executive they approached the wonderfull diane dodds and nothing was done. they went to the bold gerry and got it straight away. they said they would be votibg gerry!! so hopefully the orange card can go to hell

  • dundonald voter

    Harry Jay says:5 May 2010 at 4:25 pmOf course he scored a great tactical victory.
    Peter Robinson is in the DUP and is therefore a good man. More and more people are realising this fact and we are going to have a very good election.

    well see harry j. well see. your definition of a good man is very strange

  • Re-engaged

    … and that was another party political broadcast on behalf of the Monster Raving Looney Party!

    Welcome back DV – sorry to burst the bubble you seem to be floating down the Lagan in but the only people blogging this rubbish about a shock is the UC’s, there is little doubt SA will vote in wee Reggie (our next SoS!!) but other than reduced majorities it is hardly likely that Trevor Ringland / David Vance in EB etc etc etc… are the champions of the working classes also.

    Let’s be honest and realistic – Conservatives are going to fall probably 15-20 seats short of an overall majority with a whopping great 1 UC and possibly and Ind from FST so who likely to have the next biggest block of seats if no deal is to be done with Liberals – the DUP – now in politics it seems only reasonable that Call Me Dave will try and do some sort of deal with the DUP. However the overnight polls suggest a slight softening in Conservative support so this may mean nothing anyway

    Too many UC’s on Slugger think they still have some sort of birthright to certain seats – sorry chaps doesn’t work like that (same applies to DUP’ers and Shinners as well)

  • dundonald voter

    heres the dictionary definition of a good man morally excellent; virtuous; righteous; pious: a good man. tell me one harry j from the dup who fits this description

  • Neil

    Reckon there may have been a tinge of sarcasm in that post dv. It’s hard to make out on a message board, so I could be mistaken, but I doubt it.

  • Cynic

    Paul

    That’s nonsense. The problem of NI has been a lack of capital – its been a lack of ideas and lack of profitable businesses to invest in. The dependency culture is self induced. You waffle about infrastructure? look at the North East of England or Wales and you will see far worse.

  • dundonald voter

    Reckon there may have been a tinge of sarcasm in that post dv. It’s hard to make out on a message board, so I could be mistaken, but I doubt it neil

    if only there was room for sarcasm. but was only stating facts.

  • Cynic

    Mick

    This story is tripe. Plain and simple tripe.

  • al

    Got to love the spin trying to make Cam look like a hero defying the odds and ash to make it across the Irish Sea to defend the people of N Ireland.

    The Sun seems to think he was flown here by helicopter however Im sure thats a plane I see him disembarking on the BBC source?
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/election2010/2959623/David-Cameron-was-helicoptered-into-Northern-Ireland.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/northern_ireland/8658787.stm

  • dundonald voter

    Whichever way one looks at it the man has made a remarkable comeback from serious personal family issues that would have destroyed most politicians . by the way greenflag i think if you look at the man he looks destroyed even downbeat. i think its more to do with his lust for power and downright brass neck. he waited forty years for this position and looks like a man who is fighting with everything he has to hold on to power. but whatever way the election goes for them one things for sure there vote will be down. bel tel polls say 26% it will be less than that. they will be lucky to get 20%

  • Re-engaged

    Arlene Foster is recognised as an excellent minister in DETI – something that cannot be said for Sir Reg. It was lobbying by your arch enemy Mr Robinson and his then leader Ian Paisley that secured both the Westminister and Invest NI support for Bombardier Shorts, in fact to my knowledge the Big Man used alot of influence in Europe to ensure it passed EU regulations also for state aid. Do not recall any UC’s pushing this.

    Remember it is the Tories who intend to get rid of our RDA’s and despite what anyone says that is a backward step – reformed yes but destroyed NO. Sir Regs ministry is already cutting funding to SME’s – cannot justify supporting companies who have achieved benefits from funding before it has even had time to bed in – so much for wanting us to be an integrated part of the UK – the same funding is available to all SME’s from Lord Mandelsons department!!!

    Hope this answers your question and you will listen!

  • Greenflag

    None of the parties have an answer for the NI private sector bar the usual demands or suggestions for a lower corporation profits tax so that they can compete effectively with the republic . But there’s more to being effectively competitive than just tax rates . The issue of longer term political and social stability is there particularly for NI .

    I sense your frustration with the Assembly’s current performance re the private sector i.e zilch but their ‘financial ‘ powers are limited to an extent not generally understood by NI voters . The issue of relative deprivation in the older working class loyalist and republican areas in Belfast is one that demands solutions which as of now it seems only the public sector are capable of addressing and then only through tribally tinted glasses .

    It’s not just an NI issue -it’s an issue across the developed world as older working class communities were gutted and the people removed to make way for ‘yuppiedom’ . Now that ‘yuppiedom’ is itself under threat from this financial crisis it’ll be interesting to see how the political winds blow . But blow they will but not enough to persuade probably near 40% of the electorate tomorrow to come out and vote for the future of the country/countries ?

    PS never mind what people say they will do or won’t do in the polling booth . You’ll see on Friday what they actually did . If you get it wrong you won’t be alone . If NI seems predictable in at least 16 constituencies that’s simply down to local conditions and history . The result in Britain is the one that will shock or not shock one way or another.

  • dundonald voter

    Too many UC’s on Slugger think they still have some sort of birthright to certain seats – sorry chaps doesn’t work like that (same applies to DUP’ers and Shinners as well)

    i hope so re engaged

  • dundonald voter

    Arlene Foster is recognised as an excellent minister in DETI – something that cannot be said for Sir Reg is this the same deti that presided over the pms debacle?

  • dundonald voter

    It was lobbying by your arch enemy Mr Robinson and his then leader Ian Paisley that secured both the Westminister and Invest NI support for Bombardier Shorts is this the same shorts bombardier who are paying off by the bucket load?

  • Greenflag

    Anybody in the NI FM seat is bound to be somewhat downbeat in current circumstances regardless of family or personal issues . It’s a poisoned chalice one way or the other . The best that can be hoped for is that the ‘holder’ of the poisoned chalice doesn’t drop it and let loose the dogs of war .

    I may not agree with Peter Robinson’s ‘unionism’ but he strikes me as the only leader among all NI political leaders having the safest pair of hands for the near term future of all the people of Northern Ireland . If that sounds like an endorsement so be it .

  • dundonald voter

    by the way re engaged reg presided over deti during the boom period when northern ireland was doing very well. since the dup got it it hasnt be doing very well

  • dundonald voter

    Arlene Foster is recognised as an excellent minister in DETI – something that cannot be said for Sir Reg. It was lobbying by your arch enemy Mr Robinson and his then leader Ian Paisley that secured both the Westminister and Invest NI support for Bombardier Shorts,

    another we question re enegaged shorts profits were well down this year by the hundread millions. maybe they should have had the foresight to get investment for jobs that would have been profitable. (just a thought)

  • Neil

    reg presided over deti during the boom period when northern ireland was doing very well

    Hmmm, maybe not so much. We’ve had a bloated public sector for a long long time now. I think what may be more accurate is Reg had it while the UK was doing very well, and was quite happily wasting money right left and centre on pointless quangos. Northern Ireland hasn’t done ‘very well’ in the past four decades.

  • dundonald voter

    reg presided over deti during the boom period when northern ireland was doing very well

    Hmmm, maybe not so much. We’ve had a bloated public sector for a long long time now. I think what may be more accurate is Reg had it while the UK was doing very well, and was quite happily wasting money right left and centre on pointless quangos. Northern Ireland hasn’t done ‘very well’ in the past four decades.

    so what were saying is that reg is just as bad as arlene. something i would agree with neil

  • dundonald voter

    It was lobbying by your arch enemy Mr Robinson and his then leader Ian Paisley that secured both the Westminister and Invest NI support for Bombardier Shorts is this the same shorts bombardier who are paying off by the bucket load and by the way re enegaged a lot of the loss was redundacy payments and pensions.!!!!

  • dundonald voter

    great foresight

  • dundonald voter

    Anybody in the NI FM seat is bound to be somewhat downbeat in current circumstances regardless of family or personal issues . It’s a poisoned chalice one way or the other . The best that can be hoped for is that the ‘holder’ of the poisoned chalice doesn’t drop it and let loose the dogs of war .

    I may not agree with Peter Robinson’s ‘unionism’ but he strikes me as the only leader among all NI political leaders having the safest pair of hands for the near term future of all the people of Northern Ireland . If that sounds like an endorsement so be it .

    i understand what your saying greenflag but God help us all if we have to rely on the punt

  • dundonald voter

    The best that can be hoped for is that the ‘holder’ of the poisoned chalice doesn’t drop it and let loose the dogs of war .
    by the way greenflag thats part of the problem in this country. we are frightened to do right in case it leads to disaster again. the way i look at it is the people have no stomach to go back to the troubles. apart from a few bin lids from the disidents, but there isnt the support for it from the communities which is good. but we need to get away from this fear. we live in a democracy yet one step could lead us back to mayem. its no way to live.

  • Greenflag

    ‘its been a lack of ideas and lack of profitable businesses to invest in. ‘

    True, which begs the question as to why such inordinate faith should be placed in the private sector to somehow resolve most of society’s economic problems ? What you call the ‘dependency culture ‘ is mirrored in the private sector particularly in business relations between the very largest firms and their myriad suppliers . I’ve come across many small and medium size businesses who are dependent for 80% of their sales on the one large corporation and guess who calls the tune ?

    BTW I’m not denying a significant role for SME’s in helping to reduce what you call the dependency culture but do people really believe that the private sector can deliver particularly in the current economic situation ?

    As for those who place all faith in the private sector as against the role of government I can only state that in recent days and months we have seen how at least some of the private sector goes about it’s business .

    a) BP in the Gulf of Mexico .
    b) Massey’s Coal Mining operations in West Virginia which ‘murdered ‘ 25 employees in the pursuit of more important profit .
    c) the behaviour of Goldman Sachs employees in front of the US Senate committee.

    Make no mistake about it . The private sector -unrestricted by governmental or societal regulation will kill , plunder and ravage in pursuit of monetary gain and market advantage and this is as true of the USA as it is of China and the UK or Ireland . At the same time the private sector has proved to be the most productive ‘innovator’ across a wide range of economic activities .

    GIven the above it seems to be that both private and public sectors have to work in unison to a greater or lesser extent given the demands of the particular society . Expecting private sector corporations to behave in a socially responsible manner at the cost of profit is expecting a bridge too far .

    It’s up to individual consumers as well Government regulators to act against the Goldman Sachs , Massey’s , BP’s etc by voicing their complaints , withdrawing their custom and spending their pounds , dollars and euros elsewhere or by preferring to support companie’s and corporations which act responsibly and not just always out of greed . idealistic perhaps but it’s the only weapon individuals have . As Horse has pointed out on another thread many of the politicians are already in the pockets of the large financiers and corporations . We call this ‘democracy’ and desire to export this product to the underdeveloped world ?. Maybe we should fix it first before it comes back to haunt ?

  • Henry94

    Ken Clarke was a bit dismissive wasn’t he.

    “In the end you can always do a deal with an Ulsterman, but it’s not the way to run a modern, sophisticated society.”

  • dundonald voter

    Ken Clarke was a bit dismissive wasn’t he.

    “In the end you can always do a deal with an Ulsterman, but it’s not the way to run a modern, sophisticated society.”

    probaly telling the truth

  • alan56

    Daily Telegraph may well be able to play a role in any future negotiations between DUP and Tories?

  • Re-engaged

    PMS nothing to do with DETI – in fact the core issue there was Presbytarian Ministers causing a run on it themselves!

  • dundonald voter

    Daily Telegraph may well be able to play a role in any future negotiations between DUP and Tories?

    hopefully the voters will put paid to all this crap to-morrow.
    its very strange that the dup have run this campaign rubbishing the cu’s on their link up with the conservatives and we find that they fall behind them in the voting in 90% of their lobbys. now we hear of deals with the tories and the dup. strange world politics.

  • Re-engaged

    Bombardier have reduced temp count during a down turn in the market – unlike the UU’s who required funding from Lord Ashcroft to stay afloat.

    You can’t have it both ways DV!

  • Greenflag

    Thats the current NI I’m afraid . It’s the political cage without an exit at least in the short to medium term

    As for it being no way to live -I agree . But it’s probably the best that can be had for now . You are probably right about the people having no stomach for a rerun of the troubles . But events beyond the people’s control sometimes have a way of imposing and rending the best laid plans of mice and men into rubbish .

    As for living in a democracy ? I would ‘nt go that far in my assessment of NI’s politics . A ‘near ‘ democracy is probably more accurate . As Turgon rightly says ‘mandatory coalition ‘ is not democracy . Perhaps some day NI can progress to voluntary coalitions as in the rest of the UK (maybe post this election ) or like the Republic and the other EU countries . Somehow I don’t believe it can simply because of the very nature of the state given it’s underlying deep constitutional division . That does not mean of course that the NI State cannot continue to exist for another century in present mode -it can as long as the English piper continues to pay up the revenue shortfall – but I don’t believe such a society would be one in which I would like to see my children or grandchildren have to live in .

    But then that’s easy for me to say as I’ve always had a choice.

  • Re-engaged

    Yeah and Sir Reg was the stimulator of that – NOPE!

    Infact wee Reggie has a terrible business track record but thats for another day!

    So the NI economy is now an isolated entity, got nothing to do with the rest of our island, the UK, Europe or the world – I’m guessing you took the same Economics and Business course Gerry Adams was on!

  • Greenflag

    Ever a cheeky fellow the bould bon vivante himself . Still not a patch on Reginald Maudling’s put down of his UP sister party and indeed the entire province back in the 70’s late 60″s ?

  • Re-engaged

    Glad I’m not paying a penny for each of them I’d feel ripped off.

    Aerospace (and manufacturing in general) are profitale jobs – but again lack of knowledge or desire to accept good and positive things have happened since Davy limped of to the Conservatives and got his Lordship seems to blind your view of how things can happen

  • Re-engaged

    No worse actually DV

  • dundonald voter

    Rt. Hon Jeffrey Donaldson:

    “I have been contacted by a large number of people who are concerned that they have not received their polling cards. Many people believe that this means they are not entitled to vote. That is not the case. You do not need a Polling Card to vote in this election. All you need is a valid form of identification. These are a valid Passport, UK Driving License (with photo), Translink Senior SmartPass or an Electoral Identity Card.

    heres jeffrey telling everyone what is valid to vote. is an xtra vision card valid jeffrey?

  • Re-engaged

    Yeah – we all knew what was coming – difference between private and public sector is to survive private enterprise can’t keep recruiting, adding more layers and burying its head in the sand.

    By the way – the majority of jobs lost in Bombardier were temps / contractors – unless something has changed you don’t pay them redundancy.

    PS Quite happy to keep exposing your hypocrisy and twist on what are actually very mundane things in the public domain – but don’t let that stand in the way of your dogmas

  • dundonald voter

    That does not mean of course that the NI State cannot continue to exist for another century in present mode -it can as long as the English piper continues to pay up the revenue shortfall – but I don’t believe such a society would be one in which I would like to see my children or grandchildren have to live in .

    But then that’s easy for me to say as I’ve always had a choice.

    but we do have a choice greenflag it seems that we are frightened to exercise it it case it drags us back. some democracy

  • Re-engaged

    Ah – another classy post from the Saint from Dundonald!

  • the.digger.notes

    NORTHERN Ireland is being strangled by government-funded programmes, which actually hurt the people who deserve it – the rich.
    Paying higher taxes, having to deal with abuse from the homeless or soon to be (once the mortgage companies get fired up by a Tory win and recoup their losses) and the indiscipline of unemployed proles with their binge-drinking and over breeding, Ulster’s rich truly have it tough.
    Hope, however, comes with privatisation.
    Let’s go the whole way and privatise the ‘Big Society’ and have a zero tax policy.
    The privatisation of government-run or controlled programmes allows for competition, innovation, and for the rich to finally have an advantage (because of their superior intellect, the rich will be able through privatisation thrive much easier than the simple, child-like brain of the poor or the buffer zone that is the middle class).
    Privatisation of the following can solve everything and anything:
    CIVIL LIBERTIES
    Who decides to tell you what your rights are – land grabbing, expenses driven politicians or you?
    If you choose the individual to determine what a person can and can’t do then privatisation of civil liberties is the answer. Let corporations and by proxy the people, judge what’s best for them. Corporations already know what citizens of the ‘Big Society’ want. They tell us so through their adverts. Under these new values, everyone will be able to do everything, unless it interferes with Coca-Cola, as it has shown in Colombia where it shoots trade unionists, or selling of cell phones. Unless the market decides that your behaviour is wrong, then you can do whatever you want. If the market decides that your actions are hitting profits then you will be hunted down and eliminated.
    So, to give everyone an equal start and the same starting point, let everyone over the age of 10 carry a handgun.
    The wealthier you are the bigger gun you can buy and you can even employ an army to protect what’s yours.
    SCHOOLS
    It is well known that schools for the great unwashed in Northern Ireland do not function. Only the wealthy are passionate about their offspring wellbeing
    As we need to cage the proles offspring, we can’t have our grand avenues and shopping ‘malls’ clogged up with street urchins and the Roma, it doesn’t look good on corporation brochures, therefore basic primary education is essential and for this the adult proles (working drones) will have to pay or have their children indentured for life to the service industries. The prole kids can learn essentials such as sewing, stitching, cooking, changing plugs, serving food etc the list of chores are endless.
    Cancel secondary education altogether as the savings made on building and labour costs, refurbishment and teachers’ pay are immense. Also we do not have to worry about examination failures and the lack of qualifications. Private companies running schools for rich kids is much more sensible. The rich kids will not even have to sit the 11+. Therefore immediately solving the latest education wrangle plaguing Northern Ireland.
    Corporations needing qualified employees will have to pay and train their own. The market decides which subjects are taught.
    PRIVATISING GOVERNMENT
    Northern Ireland is currently beset by problems and one of the biggest is democratic government and how anyone can run for office. Instead of doing away with it completely, just put government in the hands of corporations. A trusted corporation can run for office, a corporation can create new legislation; a corporation can do anything it wished. If the corporation gets above itself we stop buying the corporation’s products or services. When profits decrease, the corporation will listen to us. Corporations rely on the consumers to support them and help them innovate and foster a better tomorrow – except for the poor, immigrants and ‘indigenous’ groups.
    HEALTH SERVICE
    Insurance corporations run the health and social care services. It will mean that services in health and social care consumers (previously stakeholders and prior to that the sick and injured) will only get what they can afford. A social engineering scheme on a grand scale – it’s also an effective way of culling the population – only the strong survive – so if you don’t get rich and quickly, you have to bite the bullet literally as it may be the cheapest option (note: Going one better than the Chinese method – not only will you have to pay for the bullet but add in the executioner’s time for your final bill).
    ROADS
    All roads are privately owned and toll charges apply to pay for their upkeep. Corporations also decide who can travel on their roads. Travellers will therefore be banned.
    SOCIAL SECURITY
    The rich are tired of the government trying to take their cash and having to employ accountants in order to evade and avoid paying taxes. They feel any money gathered is being given to old, sick and the work shy. These people are probably poor to begin with. Let the market decide who deserves money and who doesn’t. Let there be no retirement. Pull yourself up by you own bootstraps and stay up there until you’re dead, then you can rest all you want!
    WAR
    The next logical step from privatising government is privatising war. In many respects, it’s a stronger idea than having companies run government because privatising war leads to fewer consequences. For example, Raytheon goes to war with Iran. Raytheon hires its own army/band of mercenaries, uses it own technology and equipment, and the consumers aren’t expected to support it one iota if they don’t want to, unlike when the government forces us to pay taxes to stop the Al-Qaeda threat or whatever. If a war is unjust, vote using the pound in your pocket – if you are lucky to have one. Stop buying Raytheon products and watch a war end – this is a much better system than the current one of United Nations and NATO and all this other bureaucratic structures getting in the way of slick corporations. Let the market choose what wars to support!
    My first suggestion would be Goldman Sachs against the financial regulators. A bunch of volunteers and mercenaries can clean up the City by vaporising the regulators and then cleaning the ash off the streets.
    HUMANITY
    Overpopulation is a problem – so to paraphrase satirist Swift – we can even have home-fed babies – for the rich to add to their culinary delight!
    The future belongs to corporations – no tax, no responsibility and no accountability. A perfect future … for some.
    Simples.

  • dundonald voter

    its like this greenflag our miserable politicians are running around meeting and greeting. out on the lisburn road out in ballyclare giving gullable people the perception that they genuinely care for you. One question when was the last time they were on the streets ecept may 2005? when will we see them again? this time next year for the local elections and then may 2015. its a total joke. nortel closed last year and not one of them were on the picket line. now if it was closing at this time i can guarantee you that they would all be on it!!! they fight for their own we corners and feather their own we nests. when will we learn?

  • Greenflag

    ‘strange world politics’

    One the one hand you look for men of principle and yet when you find them you can’t help but be horrified and disappointed at their throwing of same i.e principles overboard as they grasp for the power chalice poisoned or not as the case may be .

    Anyway we need the ‘bastards’ i.e the politicians of all sides . Without them we’d have to rely on the Provo paramiltaries or the Loyalist generals to sort out the ‘province’. If I’m not mistaken the people of NI and all Ireland are not going back there anytime soon .

    Dirty business politics . But then that should not come as a surprise . Some body has to shovel the excrement . The fact that some of them may seem to get overpaid for doing so is neither here nor there . It beats paying for thousands more funerals and bombed out properties and traumatised lives .

  • dundonald voter

    Ah – another classy post from the Saint from Dundonald

    thanks for that re engaged.

  • dundonald voter

    so he never claimed near 700 pounds re engaged for videos? and if you mention it you put down the comment as trash. says more about you than it would ever about me.

  • dundonald voter

    thats why they got away with these things for years because to mention it was trash, and those who mentioned it were trash. the bottom line is they were not sorry for what they did they were sorry that they got caught. its like this would they have paid back if it hadnt have been brought to the publics attention? ill let you answer that re enegaged as i might be put down by your greater person

  • dundonald voter

    Ah – another classy post from the Saint from Dundonald
    by the way re engaged i have never said or tried to make my self a saint or quoted scripture to back up my arguments or points, or even moralised anybody. when a lot of our sainted politicians who have used their christianity to boost their clean cut image and moralised the rest of us when in reality they were as grubby as we were. does abomination ring a bell? now theres class

  • dundonald voter

    So the NI economy is now an isolated entity, got nothing to do with the rest of our island, the UK, Europe or the world – I’m guessing you took the same Economics and Business course Gerry Adams was on!

    no just pointing out that deti under dup had done well. pms debacle spring to mind

  • Greenflag

    ‘when will we learn?’

    I’m reminded of a somewhat irreverent joke told to me by a jewish friend some moons ago . I trust it’s not too irreverent . There is a moral there somewhere .

    JC the one and only came back to earth and found himself in Jerusalem in a narrow alley . As he walked along he looked down a narrow lane and there he beheld a jewish carpenter working away on a piece of furniture .

    The jewish carpenter looked up and said to JC standing in the shadows of the lane ‘Who are you’?

    ‘I am your Lord , the only Son of God and the Messiah come back to Earth to save you from your sins ‘

    ”Get away you crazy meshuggah ‘ said the carpenter .

    ‘You don’t believe me ‘? said JC

    “Come closer so I can see you ‘ said the carpenter

    As JC Came closer he found himself standing in front of the carpenter with his back to a large wooden fence . He then stretched out his arms to show the carpenter the nail holes in his hands .

    ‘Behold ‘ he said ‘the signs of my crucifixion ‘

    Quick as a flash and without pausing for breath the jewish carpenter ups with his hammer and nails and before a minute had passed he had nailed JC to the wooden fence and then stood back and said without batting an eyelid.

    ‘Jesus Christ you’ll never learn ‘

    And if JC doesn’t learn what hope for the people of ballyclare or dundonald or ballymurphy etc etc .

  • dundonald voter

    by the way re enegaged it wasnt me who said reg was good. but you made a comment that arlene foster is an excellent minister. so reg was crap when the going was good. fair enough. but this period has been the worst in living memeory so remind me how arlene is an excellent minister? the only thing i can see and the dup website is that she is good at pointing people to were you can be retrained. bit like an adult ytp scheme, with ytp wages. so what has she been excelent at re enegaged? this time i will listen

  • There is a private sector here. If many of the state sponsored schemes died away, if there was real demand for them the private sector would grow to incorporate it.

    On the other hand, if there was no need for them in the first place well…

    If the market here isn’t big enough then the obvious answer is sell elsewhere. It’s not ignorance, it’s just staring people in the face.

  • dundonald voter

    By the way – the majority of jobs lost in Bombardier were temps / contractors – unless something has changed you don’t pay them redundancy well you want to tell that to bambardier who said that is why their profits were down. and this was said, so take that one up with shorts. they made 100,000 last year down by millions the previous yeras. lost orders, lack of sales and so on and redundancies so how much for redundancies? but it was stated that this was a reason for the loss in profitsw

  • dundonald voter

    PS Quite happy to keep exposing your hypocrisy and twist on what are actually very mundane things in the public domain – but don’t let that stand in the way of your dogmas

    re enegaged your beginning to sound like a theoligian. are you one of those sainted kind by any chance?

  • The DUP already played the leak card over Hatfield – why would the Tories fall for it a 2nd time?

    Fealty is correct – ‘A Tory insider‘ indeed.

  • dundonald voter

    dogmas hyprocrisy what are you actually taking and can I have some? and by the way and im not scripture minded but you seem to want to expose my hyprocisies yet extol the virtues of the dup. seems a little strange

  • That’s clearly what the Tories expect

    Source for this? Don’t tell me, another insider

  • dundonald voter

    this is the definition of hyprocies re engaged
    a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
    2.a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.
    now is this what your trying to expose in me? or does sound like others we know?

  • dundonald voter

    re enegaged is the new caped crusader!!!

  • The Tories have the only answer (or rather, only will) that will work – cut it and force people to fend for themselves.

  • Those Goldman employees were stating the obvious – they weren’t pulling the wool over anyone’s eyes, they were dealing with clients who knew exactly what they were getting into.

    The madness of crowds – a very human trait, and independent of class or intellect.

    You can debate the merits of various business structures all you want (and I agree with you on the nature of large corporations in the ‘too big to fail sense’) but the bottom line is with entrepreneurship, which is what we’re really after in NI, is not something that will come from more public funding. It’s an attitude not a case of who to fund.

  • Pete Whitcroft

    Election fever,
    hit the town,
    find a girl,
    have some laughs,
    vote between 7am and 10pm.
    Lie down.

  • dundonald voter

    hit the town,
    find a girl,
    only with paula bradshaw!!

  • Greenflag

    Round about the couldron go:
    In the poisonous sub primes throw
    And dead children , mothers
    Under Blackstone grow
    Goldman fat sleeping got,
    Boil thou first in the charmed pot.
    Double,double toil and trouble;
    Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

    Fillet of Anglo Irish snake,
    In the cauldron boil and bake;
    Eye of Fitzpatrick and toe of frog,
    Wool of Fingleton and tongue of dog,
    Lenihan’s fork and IMF’s sting,
    Neo con leg leg and Tory wing.
    For charm of powerful trouble,
    Like a hell-broth boil and bubble.
    Double,double toil and trouble;
    Economies burn and property bubble.

    Scale of Paulson ,tooth of Wall St ,
    BP oil money ,and destroyed gulf
    Of the ravin’d salt-sea Murdoch
    Root of hemlock digg’d in the dark,
    Liver of blaspheming Goldman
    Gall of Blankenfein ; and slips of yew
    silver’d in the Merril eclipse;
    Nose of Yankee middle class
    And Greek bank burners ashes grey
    New born of birth-strangled Iceland
    Ditch-deliver’d by the IMF ,-
    Make the gruel thick and slab:
    Add thereto Celtic tiger’s chaudron,
    For ingrediants of our cauldron.
    Double,double toil and trouble
    Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

    All hail the private sector

    Double double
    Lies and trouble
    Economies burn
    And property bubble
    People die

    While Goldman Sachs and Bank of America and Citigroup and the war contractors and oil corporations do very well for themselves indeed .

    Perhaps ‘democracy’ is overrated ;(?

  • Pete Whitcroft

    The Rev Ian Parsley may condemn you to hell.

  • Greenflag

    lest I forget good one there digger . Where is Dean Swift or Mark Twain when you need them 😉 ?

  • dundonald voter

    Pete Whitcroft says:5 May 2010 at 6:55 pmThe Rev Ian Parsley may condemn you to hell.

    better him than re enegaged

  • the NI economy would be more isolated if the local political heavyweights got their idiotic demand for corporation tax powers to be changed.

    Beyond that I couldn’t tell you what any of them believe on the way forward for the economy. I don’t think they know either.

    Beyond keeping the civil service as is of course…

  • He’s bang on the money actually. The perpetual ‘deal’ thing is an embarrassment here let’s be honest.

  • Greenflag

    I think you’re exaggerating the powers of devolution . And it’s Paisley not Parsley . Parsley is a vegetable and also a young upcoming candidate for the UCUNF or is it Alliance in tomorrow’s election . Decent chap no doubt a bit shifty on the loyalty to party business but then in NI that could be a mark of political flexibility which is a much underated trait among the political class of cemented in sectarian dinosaurs.

  • Greenflag

    Election fever ,
    Find a clown
    Never a shortage
    In Belfast town

    From lamposts high
    Faces stare
    People pass under
    Not a care
    Forty percent
    Will stay in bed
    Or watch TV or blog
    Instead .

  • dundonald voter

    Dear Peter,

    I am writing to confirm my continued commitment to the block grant for Northern Ireland for the current financial year and to confirm the financial settlement for the budget of the newly established Department of Justice.

    As I have made repeatedly clear to you and the Leaders of all the political parties in the Assembly, I continue to recognize the unique problems that arose as a direct consequence of the years of The Troubles. It is essential that the recently established political recovery is not put at risk.

    As you know, I believe it is an imperative to stabilize the economic recovery in Northern Ireland. It is very clear to me from my repeated visits and from meetings with you and the Deputy First Minister, we cannot take this recovery for granted. The work undertaken by all the Assembly parties to ensure political as well as economic stability remains equally vital.

    I want to see a growing and strong private sector in Northern Ireland. However, I recognize that the legacy of the past will make this more difficult to achieve in the coming months than we may expect in other parts of the United Kingdom. This is a challenge we must all meet.

    The achievements made by you and the political leaders of Northern Ireland have been an example to us all. I remain firmly committed to doing all I can to support this momentous progress and you can count on my continued support.

    Yours Sincerely,

    Rt Hon Gordon Brown
    Leader of the Labour Party

    letter from g brown to the punt. not worth a crap because gordon is goner.

  • dundonald voter

    that was another party political broadcast on behalf of the Monster Raving Looney Party!

    Welcome back DV – sorry to burst the bubble you seem to be floating down the Lagan in but the only people blogging this rubbish about a shock is the UC’s, there is little doubt SA will vote in wee Reggie (our next SoS!!) but other than reduced majorities it is hardly likely that Trevor Ringland / David Vance in EB etc etc etc… are the champions of the working classes also.

    Let’s be honest and realistic – Conservatives are going to fall probably 15-20 seats short of an overall majority with a whopping great 1 UC and possibly and Ind from FST so who likely to have the next biggest block of seats if no deal is to be done with Liberals – the DUP – now in politics it seems only reasonable that Call Me Dave will try and do some sort of deal with the DUP. However the overnight polls suggest a slight softening in Conservative support so this may mean nothing anyway
    missed this we gem from the caped crusader re engaged. so the conservative’s are going to be 15-20 short. so they turn to the 10 dupes? (your theory not mone. i think it maybe nearer 6-7) still 5-10 short re enegaged. now let me think who do you go to after that? oh the other national parties snp and the one from wales. wot concessions will they extract? oh thats it a vote for independance!1 great. blackmailers become kingmakers become union breakers!! what the provisionals couldnt do in 40 years the punt and co wee nationalists will do in a 2 years. keep northern ireland moving peter right outta the union

  • Re-engaged

    Well if I’m the Caped Crusader with your posts tonight you must be the Joker 🙂

    Anyway happy to say I’m wrong – just checked the latest polls and your beloved party is goingto fall short of 300 and Labour are going to be up around 270 – enough for a LibLab coalition – looks like Friday morning is not going to be a good one DV

  • dundonald voter

    oh but polls can be wrong re enegaged. happy to be the joker lol can i play mine now?

  • dundonald voter

    by the way is the definition of hyprocies applied to me?

  • dundonald voter

    and im no conservative

  • dundonald voter

    but im a bit like peter the punt and sell my soul to them in the election though for vastly different reasons