‘the history of British justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

I’m remiss in not giving more coverage of Gerry McGeough and his farcical non-trial, but Mick Hall picks up the story just after McGeough’s legal team release details of Royal Pardons being given to former IRA members (I assume SF endorsing).

for some reason the previous blog here ‘Whatever happened to Gerry McGeough’ won’t link – apologies

  • ranger1640

    How long before there’s a full blown republican feud.

  • Pete Baker

    “for some reason the previous blog here ‘Whatever happened to Gerry McGeough’ won’t link – apologies”

    That’s because you have used the wrong link, Mark.

    Try this one.

  • Mark McGregor

    Pete, you are a star and I am a luddite. Thanks.

  • wee buns

    Pardons have to be requested. Just saying.

  • Mr Crowley

    Some on the runs are more equal than others in the beardland of equals. One can only hope that Gerry and Vincey will succeed in having this farce of a trial thrown out.

  • Ulick

    I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of the ‘pardon’ the Tele got wind off. The article says that he is “pardoned and remitted from a sentence of imprisonment imposed on him“, and presumably that refers to the sentence he got for ambushing the SAS ambush.

    However there is nothing about any outstanding charges i.e. breaking out of the Crum two days previously. This would probably lead us to believe that there would still be evidence to bring a charge if the will was there.

    Which brings us to McGeough. Why prosecute one and not the other especially when there is no obvious evidence against Gerry McGeough? Who makes these decisions, the PPS or the NIO?

  • Ulick

    Pardons have to be requested. Just saying.

    Good point wee buns. Do you think McGeough didn’t request one and the others did?

  • old school

    The pardons were probably requested en bloc,by PSF in negotiations.
    Everybody on message got a pardon, those not on message didn’t get one. Simples.

  • wee buns

    No. I am suggesting that it is unprincipled and furthermore heartbreaking, that an Irish Republican has requested, a royal pardon.

  • Ulick

    Sorry old school, that’s too trite an explanation. I know for a fact some of the OTRs who are not ‘on message’ as you call it are back again nonetheless.

    Surely SF would only be able to put a request in for a ‘pardon’ if an individual asked them to do so and if that is what is happening then they must be acting for those not ‘on message’ as well.

  • Ulick

    I am suggesting that it is unprincipled and furthermore heartbreaking, that an Irish Republican has requested, a royal pardon.

    Maybe they didn’t know they were requesting a ‘royal pardon’. Besides prisoners have always been released after periods of conflict, why should an Irish republican give a **** how the Brits want to dress it up for their own people.

  • wee buns

    Of course they must have known ‘cos you have to fill in a big fat form saying so. Don’t make me laugh. McAlisky was right: this is about the humiliation of Repuplicans. I am sorry for them.

  • old school

    Then why was John Brady reimprisoned to complete his sentence from the early 90s after negotiations?
    Why was the British exclusion order against Liam Campbell not lifted after negotiations?
    Why was Gerry Mc Geogh arrested on polling day?

  • Ulick

    Of course they must have known ‘cos you have to fill in a big fat form saying so.

    Maybe not if old school is correct.

  • Ulick

    I may be wrong old school but I don’t think Campbell and Brady were OTRs.

  • old school

    Why was PIRA removed from the U.S list of “foregn terror organisations” and a charity for Republican Prisoners added.
    Why did Adams get a U.S visa yet Bernadette Mc Aliskey refused.
    How many PIRA members were interned with membership in the Special Criminal Court since 1998? Dozens of Republicans were locked up with the flimsiest of evidence. Some with no evidence.
    Only last week we read that scores of Provisionals were taken off the U.S no fly list
    A whole scheme of secret deals took place in recent years, to enhance the GFA and stifle Republican opposition to it.

  • old school

    Campbell and Brady weren’t OTRS. correct.

    However,they certainly didn’t benefit from the parity of esteem we were all promised either.

  • wee buns

    Alright. In that case maybe they should have told by who ever was filling in the big fat forms. Or has SF become a Bureaucracy so soon. In any case, if they had done nothing wrong, in the eyes of the movement, why did they not stand their ground on principle? No. Sorry, it is heartbreaking because it is out of control. Those pardons will never be framed & put on the wall in Irish homes.

  • Drumlins Rock

    So Mark tell me were Gerry and Vinny involved in the shooting of Sammy Brush or not? if they were and it is proven in a court of law, then they should serve their time, unless an exceptional case can be made that would allow sentances to be reduced.

  • Ulick

    old school you are forgetting that there are still many ‘on message’ OTRs who aren’t home yet. McGeough says 54 have been cleared for return so by my reckoning there must be at least two or three times that number still waiting. That would indicate SF don’t have the ‘God button’ you seem to be suggesting they have.

  • old school

    Now you’re being deliberately evasive.
    Many OTRs have settled with families outside the 6 counties and don’t have plans to return, nothing to do with the issues I raised.
    Deal with them.

  • Cynic2

    A feud takes two sides and PIRA have totally disarmed and disbanded – havent they? Or did NIO tell porkies about that too? I am shocked at the very idea.

  • Cynic2

    Mark

    ‘the history of British justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

    I know. What is the country coming to when you cant anymore just kidnap a mother of ten, torture and murder her then bury her body on a beach.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    ‘the history of British justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

    ‘the history of Unionist justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

    ‘the history of Irish justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

    ‘the history of Irish Republican Army justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

    ‘the history of Catholic Church justice in Ireland is a disgrace’

    etc…etc….

    Perhaps the most ever corrupt little island of squabbling peasants on the edge of Europe!

  • Shannon_Republican

    A feud would be counter productive for any Republican organization, it would be used in the media and twisted to portray criminal/gangland mentality.

    Feuding has occurred in the past I would hope Republicans have learned that its a pointless exercise as it puts the lives of Volunteers, Structures and equipment at risk

  • Munsterview

    Gerry McGeough’s case is appropriate to raise for Easter week and remind us all what it was like for the majority of Republicans on this Island of Ireland. When we are told how well the Good Friday Agreement is working by G.A and how much things have changed, then G Mc’s case is proof positive that it most definitely have not for some.

    Why ?

    Nor is this just confined to North of the Border, there are a few in the South too where State harassment and set up have continued and as with G.Mc, no one in S.F. Southern circles seems to give a damm either including Martin Ferris who at one stage after his release had enough Road Traffic Act summons to wallpaper a room!

    It is not as if the Leadership North and South do not know just what is involved in these cases, it should be incumbent on the Leadership to have it stopped, not the victims.

  • joeCanuck

    Shannon Republican,

    What the hell do you mean by “puts the lives of Volunteers, Structures and equipment at risk”. I thought all of those had gone away. Are you saying that ain’t so in your part of the country?

  • Shannon_Republican

    Joe,

    Not suggesting that at all.

    I was just responding to a comment that refereed to republican feuds

    What I am saying is that there are armed Republican Organizations still in existence

    If those organizations were to involve them selves in a feud with another armed organization from their own side that it would be counter productive as has been seen in previous years

    My comment does not refer to any organization that has removed their armed capability

  • joeCanuck

    Fair enough for clearing that up, Shannon Republican.

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    “Fair enough for clearing that up, Shannon Republican.”

    yeah, coz by the sounds of what “Shannon_Republican” said I had formed the wrong oppinion of him.

    I had thought he was one of those brave “hard man” Ra head types with guns under his bed with the porno mags. Wearing a balaclave in Summertime too and thinking that Padraig Pearse was a good religious fundamentalist Catholic man despite the fact that Pearse was neurotic and may have masterbated alot as well.

  • Reader

    Shannon_Republican: If those organizations were to involve them selves in a feud with another armed organization from their own side that it would be counter productive as has been seen in previous years
    But in the absence of anything like a workable plan, armed dissident groups these days are bound to be composed of a core of Purity of Essence types surrounded by adrenalin junkies and worse. Under the circumstances, feuds between the groups are only to be expected.

  • joeCanuck

    Thanks so much, Gragoir, for ruining any thoughts of breakfast for me with your imagery of that unpleasant nutcase. And, to add insult to injury, I managed to get a black pudding yesterday for the first time since Christmas. Bah; tomorrow.

  • Munsterview

    *******************************************
    Posted by Gragoir O Fraincln on Apr 04, 2010 @ 09:37 AM

    ‘……..Perhaps the most ever corrupt little island of squabbling peasants on the edge of Europe!……’

    Pity and catchy, just the sort of thing Geraldis Cambrindis could have written and indeed did to justify his Norman Paymasters naked, greedy land grab and slaughter of the Native Irish after the 1146 AD invasion.

    Thomas Cahill’s book ‘ How the Irish Saved Civilization ‘ dealing with Ireland’s contribution to the rebuild of Europe in the Dark Ages may have gilded the lily and be a bit O.T.T. but it is far nearer to Truth and Fact than the Invader’s constant negative spin.

    One has only to look at the positions attained and respect accorded to Native Irish Exiles and their descendants and the contributions they made to their adoptive countries to appreciate what irish character and genius could achieve it allowed to prosper untrammeled to so do. Even an outline knowledge of European post modern history disproves the glib quote and shows how erroneous the quoted statement is.

    Later in the New World this was again to be seen in the building of the greatest Republic the the world has known, from the actions of General O’Sullivan that steeled George Washington when the latter was despairing in Valley Forge through to the likes of General ‘Fighting Tom’ Sweeney that saved Grants Command and the encamped Union Army at Shiloh by throwing his lines across the Confederate vanguard and telling his Command that they were there to die! However, enough said on this!

    At present in the Twenty-Six counties we are living in a financially wrecked state but here too for anybody that’s joined up the dots and made out a flow chart one thing quickly emerges, the most of the corruption that devastated have arisen and is contained inside the same circles of intellectual incest that involved only from three to five hundred people who almost exclusively interfaced through a cohesive family, financial, political and administrative and Senior Church alliance.

    As to getting a handle and a definite starting point in Institutional Corruption in Ireland, I suggest that a good starting point is the Creation of the plethora of corrupt Union Peers that were created to provide an artificial majority in the Irish House Of Lords to vote the Act Of Union, that was thoroughly rejected to then, through. That is a definite starting point for administrative corruption in Ireland that has been with us since !

  • Drumlins Rock

    munster, interesting abridged history of the world there, if only it was as simple…

  • mcclafferty

    Munsterview,

    BRAVO, well said and dead-on!

  • mcclafferty

    The article by Mick Hall in Organized Rage is an excellent piece on Gerry McGeough. Kudos to Mick and thank you.

  • Reader

    Munsterview: That is a definite starting point for administrative corruption in Ireland that has been with us since !
    What is the line of descent from those peers to Fianna Fail? Were all of the steps on the way also corrupt?

  • Alias

    Even if FF were a bunch of saintly geniuses, the outcome of expansionist monetarist policies would have been the same: a rapid expansion of borrowing, followed by bubbles and bust. So there is no point in blaming local hacks for policies and practices that they no sovereign control over.

    The reason folks are encouraged by the europhile media and the political establishment to blame those who had no control and ignore those who did is simply because the sovereignty has been given away and so even if folks were to recognise that macroeconomic and monetary policies along with financial regulation determine outcomes then they would be unable to influence those factors to avoid a repetition of them or to hold the guilty parties to account. In others words, as the sovereignty has been deleted from democracy, all debate about these policies must be deleted to since such debate serves no purpose as it can no longer influence the outcome. Indeed, it is actually illegal under the Maastricht Treaty for this State to give an advice whatsoever to the EU’s ECB about what macroeconomic and monetary policies might be helpful to the Irish economy or what macroeconomic and monetary policies might be destructive to it, and nor does it have any sovereign power to regulate how much banks should be able to lend or what terms they should be able to lend it.

    Before this sovereignty was given away, Ireland’s external debt stood at a mere 11 billion punts. Within a decade of giving this sovereignty away, Ireland’s external debt had risen to an astonishing 1.67 trillion euros. If it looks like borrowing was out of control then it is because borrowing was out of control by design. Ireland has no sovereign power to regulate the amount of money that banks can borrow within the eurosystem.

    Property is a commodity, and like all commodities, its value is subject to market forces. One of the most important ways to stimulate consumer demand is to increase the supply of money and to reduce he policy rate at which money is made available. In other words, if you lower the cost of borrowing money then people will borrow more of it. Bubbles are then created when too much money chases too few investment opportunities. This demand was stimulated within the Irish economy by those EU agencies that hold the sovereignty over the applicable policies.

    These bubbles were created in every sector of the Irish economy where property is just one such sector (and accounts for a small amount of the 1.67 trillion borrowed since joining the eurosystem). The government could no nothing to contract this demand, and indeed, it has a constitutionally binding obligation to support the policies of those to whom it has given the applicable sovereignty to. That means that if the macroeconomic and monetary policies are expansionist then the government must tailor is fiscal and political policies to support the borrowing spree, encouraging it rather than discouraging it.

    So, although we are fed bullshit such as the government not increasing stamp duty as a counterbalance to the disastrous expansionist policies of the ECB, this is easily exposed as europhile apologist bullshit by pointing out (a) that it is illegal (unconstitutional) for the government say that the expansionist policies of the ECB would be disastrous and therefore needed this counterbalancing, and (b) that the stamp duty would not have acted as a counterbalance anyway unless it was set at 100% of whatever profit would be made on the eventual resale of the property rather than set as a percentage of what the property is bought for. Stamp duty of circa 50k offers no deterrence to profit-seeking in a bubble economy when the profit is circa 500k.

    Developers and bankers merely supply market demand. Those who create the demand via the macroeconomic and monetary policies are the prime movers in the economy.

  • Munsterview

    Reader

    Starting with the Act Of Union bought and paid for New Peers, these were creatures titles were by words for contempt and even among the pro integration Peers the term Union Peer remained one of derision and contempt for generations. The exercise did institutionalized corruption in the Irish Body Politic and produced a situation where it was tolerated there after.

    I will join up the dots to current circumstances some other time.

    For now sufficient to say that had reasonable credit and credit terms been available to Irish developers as in any other country instead of our two main banks just catering for a privileged keyed in elites, then the need for Anglo/Irish bank would not have existed, or the need for the Main Banks to enter into a spending war that became a squandering war.

    Things like the sell out of Irish Gas for a song to Shell go back to other corruption like the, The Bantry Oil Terminal, The Irish Sweep scandal, Irish Shipping, etc, and toleration of this by the Fianna Failure go back to the same toleration of Dev and co hijacking the Irish Press, publicly collected funds into a private family thrust.

    The rest of the corruption around the foundation of the State can likewise be traced back to the Irish Party, that prior to 1916 had become a by word for corruption. As far back as 1906 one honorable M.P. Daniel Desmond Sheehan had the principles to resign his seat on the corruption issue and challenge the Party party to run a candidate against him. They did not have the guts to do so and he was returned to his seat unopposed.

    Fact of history are just that, facts, they cannot be denied.

  • Mrazik

    Aye, Munster, coz ye wuz there, like.

  • Alias

    “For now sufficient to say that had reasonable credit and credit terms been available to Irish developers as in any other country instead of our two main banks just catering for a privileged keyed in elites, then the need for Anglo/Irish bank would not have existed, or the need for the Main Banks to enter into a spending war that became a squandering war.”

    In reality, 59% of all borrowing by Irish clients by-passes all financial institutions within the State, with clients being able to borrow from any bank within the eurosystem.

    If the Irish banks do not fulfil the demand for money created by the applicable macroeconomic and monetary policies then other lenders are available within the eurosystem to fulfil that demand.

    Ergo, the exclusionary practices that you wrongly accuse AIB and BoI of engaging in (as if these institutions do not have massive debts to property developers from the golden circle) would not have prevented the excluded clients from borrowing within the eurosystem even if Anglo Irish Bank did not meet that demand.

    While the europhiles cry out for the national government to regulate the supply of money (not even possible when consumers can borrow from any bank in the EU thereby easily circumventing any such regulation), it is the all-important demand for money that cannot be regulated in any way whatsoever by the non-sovereign national government and so said europhiles simply ignore the all-important demand-side of the equation.

    The europhile media, of course, blame the national government for the disastrous expansionist monetarist policies, banking regulation, and macroeconomic policies of the EU as this shifts the blame and wrongly encourages people to believe that they are better served by transferring more sovereignty to the EU away from national government, while the europhile government blames the market suppliers such as banks and developers as its means of shifting the blame from the EU, and of, course, from itself.

    The unwittingly public doesn’t know what to think or who to believe but is easily led to growl at fashionable hate figures anyway rather than focus on its role in giving its sovereignty away via the applicable referendum and in its willingness to be stimulated as frenzied consumers by the EU’s cheap credit bonanza just as long as there was a house sale profit in it for them or money available for that nice 4 wheel drive…

  • Munsterview

    Posted by Mrazik on Apr 04, 2010 @ 10:29 PM

    So back to the usual, can’t bring down the message so start on the messenger!

    Play the ball and not the man! And as the game stands so far its 26 definite for our side with six disputed, and the game far from over! Now if we only had a level playing field……

  • Munsterview

    Allas,

    Not crying off but three newspapers still to read. In the words of Mc Arthur……..

  • Alias

    No problem. It was a tangent anyway, so apologies to Mark.

  • mcclafferty

    Mr. Crowley #5,
    The problem here is if the Diplock court does not throw this case out and Gerry is found guilty, based on whatever reason they decide to convict him on, whether factual or fabricated, he could possibly get a 20 year sentence, serve two years, and then be put on “probation” for the remainder of 18 years…thus allowing the RUC/PSNI to pick Gerry up at any time, for any reason, and then they could make him serve out the remainder of the sentence. What is disturbing here, besides the ridiculous trial, is the fact Gerry McGeough would never be allowed to run again as a candidate on any ticket going forward. In my opinion, that is exactly why this British kangaroo court is pursuing this sham of a case. They want Gerry McGeough wiped off the map to ensure he cannot run for a political position every again.
    Adams is the only game in town representing the Irish nationalist/republican community. However, if Gerry McGeough was to win an election, he could possily pose a threat to Adams/McGuinness and that is precisely what SF and the Crown do not want. Gerry is an extremely well educated and charismatic person, not to mention he is a true Irish nationalist/republican who never compromised his republican principles or denied and apologized for being in the IRA. I find it extremely bizarre that Gerry was arrested on a 29 year old charge AFTER he ran as an Independent on an anti-PSNI platform. Who wanted him out of the way more? Adams or the Crown? Regardless of the amount of votes Gerry got in the 2007 election, which was his first time every to run, – he was, and still is, a very prominent Irish republican who definitely has the credentials and potential to eventually win a seat in the southeast Tyrone area as an Irish Republican Independent. Regardless of what people think of Gerry’s religious affiliations, he is a die-hard Irish republican who paid his dues, as others, and believes in pushing forward, in a peaceful manner, for nothing less then a united Ireland. He has never and will never bend-over for the British government or their servants. That’s what this trial is all about! Eliminate his chances of ever running in any election again and by putting him and his family through 3 years of this farce, they are hoping to intimidate any other Irish republican who speaks out against the RUC/PSNI, Adams and Company and continued British rule!

  • wee buns

    This vendetta must not be allowed to result in McGeough being scalped. It indeed has the looks of a test case & he must be especially careful to take care of his health now, as this will not be over fast. One of the comments on Mick’s blog says that Gerry has a ‘good team’, which I hope is true for that is critical. Never mind if they are not ex comrades, solidarity is the key. No mention of his legal team; I hope they are worth their salt. Why is the Law Society not involved in this case? Also I see I am out of touch; perhaps someone would be so kind as to explain when Diplock was renintroduced!?!
    Sorry as I am for his troubles, it is vastly encouraging to see McGeough holding the principle.

  • mcclafferty

    weebuns

    Thank you for your sincere concern for Gerry. As Mick said…Gerry has a good team and they are no strangers to this type of case or the Diplock courts. Unfortunatey, the Diplock court system never went away. The British government in June 2009 “unexpectedly” extended the legislation allowing for Diplock Courts for another two years. The Diplock system was supposed to have ended for good by July 2009. Some observers see this as a blatant move to ensure that Gerry McGeough is “tried” under this notorious emergency legislation.

  • mcclafferty

    wee buns,
    Go to freegerry.com and this will give you a complete update on Gerry’s case/trial from the day he was arrested in 2007.

  • wee buns

    Mc Cl
    I thought it was gone in ’07 or thereabouts. This not only is news to me, but alters my opinions on the proirities of what should constitute ‘direct action’ currently. Meaning a campaign that targets diplock & supports an individual case like Gerry’s, surely holds more weight than eg anti-psni protest. Expensive battleground, with legal fees. But one that must be undertaken. The agenda is clear from the p.o.v of the establishment & they will be in no rush to resolve it, thereby wearing down the opponent. I will be writing to both governments on this issue. And also if there is a contact available for campaign/fundraising for Gerry’s case please throw it up here too.

  • wee buns

    Thanks.

  • Reader

    mcclafferty: if…possibly…could…would…In my opinion…However, if Gerry McGeough was to win an election…possibly
    Quite some theory you have there!

  • Seosamh913

    Reader

    Let us hope that he does not as McGeough’s politics are dangerously far right; it’s essentially catholic Paisleyism.

    I do think the trial was/is a nonsense and that Mr McGeough should be free to go rather than being regarded as a special case. The persecution complexes of some of these non-mainstream republicans are insufferable enough already.

  • Munsterview

    ‘………… I will be writing to both governments on this issue. And also if there is a contact available for campaign/fundraising for Gerry’s case please throw it up here too…….!.

    Posted by wee buns on Apr 05, 2010 @ 03:30 AM

    Yesterday I spoke with a mother whose son was sexually abused and used as a child prostitute by a I.R.S.P. man who also a police informer in Ireland and G.B. Despite hand delivering a letter to Minister for justice Ahern’s Constituency office and into the hands of his office sec. she is waiting since the mid-January for a reply!

    I have been raising this matter on these postings for months on an almost weekly basis. These postings are read by all keyed in to current politics in the party back-rooms. Not one person from The President down to Fianna Failure, Fine Gael, Labor of Sinn Fein in the South have been in contact through these postings to find out details!

    Meanwhile Senior Fianna Failure Ministers like Michael Martin, Foreign Affairs and Dermot Ahern in Justice have gone record with issuing ‘Strong Statements’ about Clerical C.S.A. while ignoring a herd of abuse elephants roaming around Leinster House ministerial corridors, including this police informer one, that have not been dealt with!

    As to your letter wee buns, you will have Ahern quaking in his boots………… with laughter that is!

  • mcclafferty

    Reader,
    “Quite some theory”
    I believe NOTHING is impossible Reader. However,for Gerry’s sake, I hope he never runs for any seat in any election because my honest opinion, when it comes to politicians, is from a quote by an unknown source…”The most difficult choice a politician must ever make is whether to be a hypocrite or a liar.” And I have found Gerry to be neither!