“Yes, I read about them in the papers”.

As an iol report noted this morning, the European Arrest Warrant for Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams’ brother Liam was endorsed by Dublin’s High Court yesterday. RTÉ reports that at 2.10 this afternoon Liam Adams arrived at Bridewell Garda Station by appointment with his solicitor. He was arrested and escorted to the High Court where he “told the court that he did not want to go back to Northern Ireland because he believed he would not get a fair trial there.” He has been released on bail of 15,000 euros and is due to appear before a criminal court in Dublin next Wednesday. And according to the Guardian report

The Guardian has learned that Liam Adams’s legal team will argue that their client has a right to have the case against heard in the Irish Republic, where they will contend he will get a fairer trial than in Northern Ireland.

And from a later iol report

Mr Adams, with an address at Bernagh Drive, Belfast, Northern Ireland told the court he left Northern Ireland because he was afraid that due to the publicity the allegations had received he could not get a fair trial. He said he left the North after an article appeared about him in the Sunday World Newspaper.

Mr Adams also told the court that he and his family had been treated “disgracefully by the media.”

The court also heard from Remy Farrell Bl for the State that the Gardaí had strong concerns, but did not object, to Mr Adams being granted bail on grounds including the seriousness of the allegations against Mr Adams.

Giving details of arrest Detective Sergeant Jim Kirwan told the court that he arrested Mr Adams at the Bridewell Station in Dublin after meeting him by arrangement on Thursday afternoon.

Sgt Kirwan told counsel that when Mr Adams was asked if he knew about the charges contained in the warrant he said “Yes, I read about them in the papers”.

Sgt Kirwan said that he was asked by Mr Adams when the allegations against him are said to have occurred. The Gardaí replied between March 1977 and March 1983. The Garda said that Mr Adams then said “I just want to say that I am not guilty of that”.

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  • joeCanuck

    Any lawyers about?
    What gives him the right to be tried outside of the alleged offence jurisdiction? Is it a European thing or an Irish/UK arrangement?
    Are there broad or narrow grounds allowing it?
    Does the claimant, his daughter, have any say in the matter?

  • joeCanuck

    Pete,
    Do you think this story has finally lost its legs?

  • Pete Baker

    Hardly ,Joe.

    He’s back in court on Wednesday.

    As for your legal question.

    It’s an Irish/UK arrangement.

    Read the Guardian report again.

  • He can be tried wherever between the UK and here he feels comfortable. If he pleads not guilty the evidence will be out and the jury will decide. I do not believe anyone here will let a child abuser go free because he was in Sinn Fein.

    Truth is Sinn Fein have more (all?) their support in the north. LA needs to think very carefully before he opts for a trial here.

  • Alias

    The Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act only applies to those who are alleged to have commited terrorist-type offences in NI or the rest of the UK (such a Gerald Mackin), so it doesn’t allow for Adams to be prosecuted in this jurisdiction for alleged sexual offence. Also, Ireland doesn’t allow non-jury trials for sexual offences.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1976/en/act/pub/0014/index.html

  • feismother

    < >

    What about Stephen Cahoon who was tried by Jury in Dublin under the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act for murdering his girlfriend in Derry? That was last October.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1021/quigleyj.html

  • Alias

    I can think of nothing more terrifying than a child knowing she is going home to be abused.

    The ‘Act’ works for me.

  • Pete Baker

    Indeed, feismother.

    Here’s another short report on that.

    Judge Conal Gibbons told the accused that under the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act 1976, he could opt to have his trial in this jurisdiction or in Northern Ireland.

    Defence counsel Peter Nolan BL told the court that the defendant wished to have his trial in the Republic.

  • socaire

    catwoman, you’re starting to drool

  • joeCanuck

    Alias,
    It would appear that you are correct; the Schedule doesn’t include any sexual offence.
    Feismother,
    Cahoon’s offence, murder, is included in the Schedule.
    It isn’t only terrorist offences that are included in the Schedule. There are many others. See Alias’ link.

  • socaire!

    What an unexpected…!

    Liam Adams will have his day in court. Im not proud I dont care which jurisdiction.

    I am going to, and its costing me, refrain from mentioning my views on those found guilty of child abuse. Here I am, the very picture of restraint….

  • old school

    He said he expects a fairer trial in the South,and doesn´t expect a fair trial in the North due to media coverage. But didn´t most of the negative media coverage stem from Dublin publishers.
    There´s more to this than meets the eye.

  • If he pleads not guilty there will be a lot of dirty linen being washed in public. Gerry Adams must be quaking in his well heeled boots.

    I am not sure he would be wise to go for trial in the south but it is his choice.

  • joeCanuck

    Doubt it, pippakin; the only thing that G.Adams could offer would be hearsay which is not admissible. There is zip chance of him being called as a witness.

  • Eileen Calder

    Mr Liam Adams and his lawyers are sadly mistaken. There is no place in Christendom will give him a fairer trial and a more sympathetic hearing than the Belfast Crown Court at Laganside. Indeed our learned Judges are second to none when it comes to dismissing juries, calling mistrials and acquitting defendants in sexual abuse and rape cases on technicalities. The last five survivors of adult rape and the last three survivors of child sexual abuse I attended court with, saw their (alleged?) perpetrators walk free. The pain and suffering they endured was lost in the midst of legalbabble about Shippey, Galbraith and “the plums and the duff” and precedents set in Trinidad and Tobago.

    The fact that one of these defendants was a relative of a senior republican (WHO DID THE RIGHT THING IN SUPPORTING THE FEMALE MEMBERS OF HIS FAMILY) helped, rather than hindered his case as it was insinuated in the court that the whole thing was a provie plot against him.

    Excepting the fact that having to travel to Dublin may add further stress to the victim I for one would be glad to see him tried in Dublin – I have lost almost all hope for survivors getting justice in Belfast.

  • Alias

    Well then, there you have it. An act that was specifically designed for terrorist-type offences is now being used to give extraterritorial jurisdiction to non-terrorist offences.

    However, it still cannot be used to allow Mr Adams to be tried in this jurisdiction since the principle “terrorist-type offences” to which the Act applies are defined in the schedule as:

    Common law offences
    1. Murder.
    2. Manslaughter.
    3. The common law offence of arson.
    4. Kidnapping.
    5. False imprisonment.

    Other offences listed are Malicious damage, Firearms, Explosives, Robbery and burglary.

    Rape and other sexual offences is not included in the schedule of the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act (since they are not terrorist-type offences), and therefore the Act does not apply to Mr Adams.

  • Alias

    Incidentally, here is a direct link to the in the schedule of offences that are covered by the Criminal Law Jurisdiction Act 1976. As you can see, rape and other sexual offences are not included, so Mr Adams [b]cannot[/b] be tried in this jurisdiction under this Act.

  • Jimmy Sands

    It least he didn’t insist on having the case dealt with by Upper Springfield CRJ.

  • Ulick

    Maybe we should just hang them all without a trial Eileen?

  • TellMeMa

    Liam will probably get a better trial in the six counties than anywhere else. It’s the PSNI’s (or RUC’s) fault he didn’t get arrested and charged when Aine and her mother first made the allegations. And when Aine denounced him publicly, still **months** before an arrest warrant was issued, and further delays for an international arrest warrant.

    Consequently, the RUC/PSNI has enabled Liam to be involved with political parties and children’s activities for over 20 years – Involved with Catholics and/or republicans. Maybe that’s why the RUC could not be bothered with him at the time. Let themmums suffer his (allegedly) paedo presence.

    Time to have Republicans on the Police Board, I think.

  • Everyone, sorry I am late I fell asleep!

    I must not have explained very well when I said GA would be quaking in his boots at a not guilty plea.

    I should have said: if LA pleads not guilty there will be a full trial with evidence given for and against the charges. It will disclose the whole background.

    If LA pleads guilty all that happens is the charges are read out and he is sentenced.

    In all of this we have to remember he insists he is innocent and he is entitled to his trial (purrrrh)

    Joe

    Feismother? I will be looking it up momentarily!

  • TellMeMa

    Republicans on the policing board? not unless this holy mess is cleared up!

    If LA is found guilty there must be an investigation into all Brit authorities associated with this case.

    I am not sure but the investigation may have to wait until the other allegations which are still outstanding have been sorted out.

    Before anyone has a go at me, the reason I think there may be a delay is that the charges relate to the same period, the accused (so far) are part of the same group and the authorities concerned are the same Brit authorities.

  • Pete Baker

    So sorry I just noticed you were the one who called me Feismother. Checking now…

  • Peter Baker

    Ok I give up! where can I find the definition of feismother. Not in my dictionary or google or translate.

  • Pete Baker

    Sorry to drive you nuts.

    Found it. I think.

  • Pete Baker

    pippakin

    I wasn’t replying to you.

  • Pete Baker

    I said I found it!

  • feismother

    My feismothering days are far behind me but the name has stuck.

  • feismother

    As are mine. I am now acclimatising to the ‘feral’ titles Im given!

  • old school

    He could ask for the trial in the North, put on some weight, then claim to be too fat for jail.

  • old school

    Weight Watchers for him then…

  • Brian Walker

    If I could butt in.. This Act came into being after the parties to the Sunningdale conference in 1973 couldn’t agree on extradition and set up a commission that devised it. In the early years I’m pretty sure it wasn’t used. Now that the troubles are formally over it’s hard to see its justification. Yet I’m sure it will survive and become used as a basis for developing an all-Ireland common law jurisdiction area. Will we see nationalist defendants shopping around for the best tariff or otherwise opting in principle for trial in the Republic?

  • joeCanuck

    old school,

    The fat guy was sentenced to 12 months in jail this morning. Finally a “victory” of sorts for the abused.

  • joeCanuck

    BTW , now I’m confused. What is feismother?

  • TellMeMa

    @Brian Walker: Will we see nationalist defendants shopping around for the best tariff or otherwise opting in principle for trial in the Republic?

    In Liam’s case it’s probably both. For the first, the (Eire) prosecution would need to get at least some information from the RUC/PSNI and that may be difficult given the time and/or missing papers (which has happened so often within the RUC) – that could happen also if he’s tried in Belfast; for the second, well of course as a Republican it would be on principle.

  • Brian Walker

    Interrupt away! I think you are right and gradually the laws will join. I dont see the uniting of the 32 counties as happening on one day. it will be the gradual normalising and absorbtion of laws, police and parties. We will begin to see the end when F/F and F/G get off their high horses and set up shop in the north.

    JoeCanuck

    He did not get long enough.

  • joeCanuck

    TellMeMa,

    I guess you missed the many trials over the years in the Republic where certain
    “Republicans” refused to recognize the Court.

  • joeCanuck

    I agree, pippakin. That’s why I said “victory of sorts”.
    You can call me Joe.

  • old school

    What principle would that be Tellmema?.
    Doesn´t PSF tell Nationalist to support law and order in the 6 Counties??

  • Sorry Joe!

    Not really with it, nursing a drink and waiting for the heating to do its job. Imagine I actually thought it was warm an hour or so ago, losing it.

  • TellMeMa

    @JoeCanuck

    Yes I did miss those episodes, Joe.

    @old school
    I guess in Liam’s case, Liam is not obeying the PSF. Just shows how much control PSF has over Liam.

  • Paddy

    Eileen Calder: You sure are a straight shooter. Belfast is lucky to have you.

    I was going to make a comment about The Securocrats made him do it. However, even forgetting the Adams family and the criminal amoral outfit they consorted with, there is a very dark side to Ireland. It is good some people like you have the stomach for it.

  • Paddy

    Well said I completely agree.