“Our society has a tragic history of violence.”

Mark asked “Why?” Kieran Doherty, aged 31, was reportedly bound, stripped and shot on the outskirts of Londonderry on Wednesday. Because they can would seem to be the simple answer. After all, that’s all the reasoning others previously required. And they can all still, apparently, “look back on their IRA involvement with pride.” The BBC has some additional background

In November 2009 Mr Doherty gave an interview to the Derry Journal newspaper in which he claimed he had been approached by the security service MI5 while trying to set up a cigarette manufacturing company. According to the paper, he was repeatedly turned down for a licence by Revenue and Customs and was then approached by an MI5 agent. “I think the whole thing is a set up in order to try and recruit informers,” he told the newspaper. In January this year, Mr Doherty again contacted the same newspaper after the PSNI searched his home. The search came after 500,000 euros worth of cannabis was found in a house in County Donegal. Mr Doherty told the newspaper that he had no involvement with the drugs and that the house belonged to a Republican prisoner whom he had met in Portlaoise prison. It is understood that Mr Doherty was jailed on a robbery charge.

On UTV Live the Sunday Tribune’s Northern Editor, Suzanne Breen, stated that she had met Kieran Doherty in 2003 when he was “O/C Real IRA prisoners” in Portlaoise Prison and that it was her understanding that he had remained an “active republican” on his release. Suzanne Breen also identified the “Republican prisoner” who owned the house in Donegal as Seamus McGreevy – who recently committed suicide while fighting extradition to Lithuania on attempted arms smuggling charges as the result of a sting operation involving MI5, the garda, and Lithuanian police.

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  • I owe you my thanks Mr Baker, compiling this was proving a gargantuan task for me. Im glad you did it.

    So he appears to have been a RIRA member and he may have been involved with drugs, since when has that been an excuse to murder people and leave them naked.

    It was a depraved and sadistic act. I hope the police find the murderers and they rot in jail, contemplating the error of their ways.

  • Mark McGregor

    Top links Pete. First time I go – *clap*

  • Pete Baker

    Thanks.

    They did request a post…

  • West Sider

    And they can all still, apparently, “look back on their IRA involvement with pride.”

    Good point – and at least in this instance they didn’t booby-trap the body.

    It’s time Adams and McGuinness told us that the long war was the wrong war. It’s time they told us that what they ordered and orchestrated was as wrong as British miitary policy throughout the conflict.

    I can see that happening in the next 5 years and it is crucial that it does.

  • West Sider

    Should add, even if Adams and McGuinness did this, it would have little effect on the current dissies as they seem to have a more personalised rationale which sees them fighting Sinn Fein rather than the British.

    Ergo, loads of Irish casualties.

  • sdelaneys

    “Good point – and at least in this instance they didn’t booby-trap the body.” West Sider

    If you are suggesting that bodies were routinely boooby trapped in the past a few links would be useful.

  • Pete Baker Mark McGregor

    And you see how successful it has been! This is one of my favourite sites. It is honest and any bias is known in advance, not hidden behind a web of words.

    It needs to maintain its integrity at all times, well done boys you rose to the challenge!

  • granni trixie

    Westsider: you said it better than I every could.

  • granni trixie

    Oops…ofcourse should have read ‘ever could’

  • joeCanuck

    Murder is murder, plain and simple.

  • West Sider,

    It’s time they told us that what they ordered and orchestrated was … wrong

    You’ll be waiting a long time for that. Did Fianna Fáil ever admit that the Civil War was wrong?

  • aquifer

    Somebody has informed. Shoot somebody.

    Going on past form, the safest people in these outfits are probably the informers.

  • Marcionite

    the usual weasal words of condemnation from unionists and nationalists above. Sure you’re sharing power with people who support these actions. And please spare me the “SF has renounced violence and supports the police”

    no. They have GIVEN UP VIOLENCE for TACTICAL reasons. They have NEVER RENOUNCED VIOLENCE for if they have really turned against violence, SF would condemn past murders of RUC and condemn the murder of the many many victims who were also found shot lying in ditches

    if you are to disagree with me, fine but plead be decent and logical enough to dissect and critique at least the paragraph above this one and the subtle but chasm-like difference between giving up violence and renouncing violence

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    Marc I asked you this the other day without response — if SF publicly renounced violence and admitted that their armed struggle was wrong, would you A. believe them and B. be happy to share power with them?

  • Rory Carr

    Question B. is superfluous, Gerry. Marcionite will have to lump power-sharing with Sinn Féin whether he likes it or not. Now all the poor man has to do in order to find peace in his heart is to search for “the serenity to accept the things [he] cannot change”.

  • Greenflag

    andrew gallagher

    ‘Did Fianna Fáil ever admit that the Civil War was wrong?’

    No . The people in the Free State did by voting for the Cosgrave Government and peace . After a decade in the political wilderness FF were elected to government in 1932. They were clever enough to get the message. In the years following 1922 Dev moved further to the ‘right’ until he found himself stuck between the political extremes of the Blueshirts (Irish fascists ) and the IRA (Irish cryto communists). Dev emerged post WW2 with the Blueshirts routed and disbanded in disgrace and the IRA politically irrelevant.

    FF could do with a ‘political maestro’ of Dev’s ilk today to deal with the economic crisis but then ‘economics’ was not Dev’s forte and we live in different times with different expectations from our ‘leaders’ sorry ‘shepherds’ 😉

  • Greenflag

    marcionite,

    ‘the usual weasal words of condemnation from unionists and nationalists above. ‘

    They are NOT weasel words . Unionists and Nationalists and Republicans and their political representatives condemned this senseless murder unequivocally , as have Unionist and SDLP representatives.

    ‘And please spare me the “SF has renounced violence and supports the police”

    I believe they have . Martin McGuiness DFM has appealed to the people in the area to give every help and assistance to the PSNI in their investigation of the crime.

    Perhaps Marcionite you forget that when wars /conflicts are over they are over. Some in NI both among the ‘dissidents’ and TUV ultras would rather not believe that . The people of NI have voted, like it or not for peace and the GFA .

    Sooner or later the so called ‘Real IRA’ will get the message but probably not before half of them have been shot by either the security forces or each other and the other half have been jailed for decades .

  • Greenflag,

    That was a rhetorical question. And you’re a decade out with the disbandment of the Blueshirts – that happened in 1933, a mere year after their formation.

  • Spotty Muldoon

    What disturbs me about this case is that Mr Doherty’s grandfather, Vinny Coyle, was cited as a Civil Rights man back in the ’60s. How could the grandson, therefore, be a dissident? Answer, because the IRA in all its guises has hijacked every non-violent attempt ever made to draw attention to civic injustice. I, for one, would be out on the street protesting about every injustice. Until I see the curly bap of McGuinness or one of his henchmen out protesting too. At which point I go home.

  • Marcionite

    Gerry lvs Castro and Greenflag

    Yes, I would but it would depend on the manner it was said and I am not being churlish. I believe Tomas McGiolla, a man who is actually a hero of mine believe it or not, someone who turned their back on violence for moral reasons and became vehemently anti sectarian. This was a man who was in the old IRA but I take my hat of to him, God rest his soul.

    I also give credit to Delores Price and Brendan Hughes for their recent statements and acts of contrition. We must make room for rehabilitation and forgiveness yes but unfortunately, the SF leadership remind me of the men Orwell warns us off in ‘Coming Up for Air’, where he describes the rising fascists as men who think in slogans and talk in bullets.

    If SF showed contrition and stated that the IRA campaign was wrong and malignant, then it would help easing the sores. I am not totally devoid of giving people a second wind but what sticks in my craw is being governed by people who show no contrition whatsoever and what is worse, still venerate those who did commit awful atrocities.

    I really honestly in my heart of hearts, do not think I am being unreasonable.

    I have mentioned in other recent postings of mine, that the Bilderburg group have their shadowy paws on the strings of the puppets in Stormont so to be honest, we’re not governed by those we think we’re governed by but if we’re going to have puppets, I’d rather have decent puppets.

    http://www.bilderberg.org/

  • old school

    The whole thing about the drugs being found in a leading Republicans rented house stinks to the highs, and points to a psy ops operation by State forces to blacken the RIRA.
    I´ll be watching the trials of those charged ith scrutiny.
    Sinn Fein also launched a whispering campaign against Kieran Doherty almost immediately after the drugs find. They tried to spin this to make the RIRA look like criminal drug dealers, and implicated Doherty personally. It was obvious, the RIRA, to hammer home their anti drugs credentials, were going to take action.
    For Sinn Fein to play the innocent now is sickening and opportunistic as usual.

  • old school

    This whole sadistic mess is sickening and disgusting. It is not obvious to me how any amount of ‘gossip’ can lead to the murder of a man. As for leaving him naked, well, there is only one explanation for that.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    GF: “Perhaps Marcionite you forget that when wars /conflicts are over they are over. Some in NI both among the ‘dissidents’ and TUV ultras would rather not believe that . The people of NI have voted, like it or not for peace and the GFA .”

    As they say, the song may be over, but the melody lingers on. For that matter, there is little practical difference as to “the war” and “the peace” to those who were and are still being targeted by the terrorists and extremists — most notably the disses, but the rest of the alphabet soup mobs as well.

    GF: “Sooner or later the so called ‘Real IRA’ will get the message but probably not before half of them have been shot by either the security forces or each other and the other half have been jailed for decades . ”

    With SF and the rest of the usual suspects piously mouthing the old formulae as to the nature of the police, et al and ad nauseum, no doubt.

    OS: “The whole thing about the drugs being found in a leading Republicans rented house stinks to the highs, and points to a psy ops operation by State forces to blacken the RIRA.”

    Time to loosen the tin-foil hats… besides, the RIRA (along with the rest of the dead-enders) is already darker than Dracula’s under-shorts. If this were really an effort at black propaganda, surely the intrepid minions of the state would have at least planted a drug that would make the ground-hogs stand up an’ notice, like a kilo or two of china white — it’s been a bit, but a half million euros worth of weed is probably still just a bit bulky. If’n the state’s underhand is as all powerful and as brilliant as y’all suggest, surely an amount they could move in, say, a work-man’s took bag would be the preferred planted evidence, rather than a bale or three of cannabis…

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    Old School: ‘a psy ops operation by State forces to blacken the RIRA.’

    This would be hilarious were it not so sickening. Newsflash old school — the RIRA slaughtered 29 entirely innocent people in Omagh barely a decade ago. How exactly can anyone blacken their name more than they have done themselves? And in what sort of parallel universe can selling joints be considered worse than wholesale murder? Get a grip.

  • old school

    MI5 have previous with these kind of tactics.
    As far back as the early seventies with the Littlejohn brothers being one example.
    If they can misinform the public, that Republican militants are drug dealing gangsters, it´s easier for them to criminalise and isolate them.
    Why else do you think, with so many empty houses in the Republic, this criminal gang decided to use the house of one of the former founders of the RIRA. Knowing full well it would be under surveillance and prone to raids??
    Poor Seamus Mc Greevy, who owned the house and was aghast at what happened took his own life, such was the effect.
    Republicans are 100% against the drugs trade. In Derry alone they´ve shot close to 20 in the last year. They´ve also killed 2 in the last month, including one of their own.
    The State knows this is a hot potato for Republicans, and are doing their damndest to instill false information and black propaganda to the media, by using criminal agents and provocateurs.

  • Gerry Lvs castro

    ”If they can misinform the public, that Republican militants are drug dealing gangsters, it´s easier for them to criminalise and isolate them.”

    old school will you listen to yourself? Drug dealing gangsters exist in every western society and are best dealt with by the judicial system. However sadistic, homicidal gangsters intent on random slaughter do not exist in every society and need to be weeded out and imprisoned for a very long time.

    A well-worn paramilitary tactic is to portray your organisation as a protector of the community by beating/shooting supposed drug dealers, petty criminals and people branded ‘anti-social.’ What exactly could be more anti-social than murdering fellow Irishmen, women and children in cold blood and not even having the balls to own up for it?

    You boast that the RIRA and their ilk have shot 20+ supposed drug dealers in a year. If the grubby little organisation you’re defending had one ounce of humanity it would ‘encourage’ the perpetrators of the Omagh atrocity to hand themselves in, then disband and spend the remainder of their miserable lives doing charity work.

    You just don’t get it old school — this sort of pathetic but dangerous nonsense achieved precisely FA squared for the provos over 30 years — all the RIRA etc have to look forward to is more bodies on roadsides, long prison terms and a footnote in history marked failure.

  • Dread Cthulhu

    OS: “If they can misinform the public, that Republican militants are drug dealing gangsters, it´s easier for them to criminalise and isolate them.”

    Sure… as if the bombing, the shooting, the possession of illegal arms, etc., weren’t enough for that…

    OS: “Poor Seamus Mc Greevy, who owned the house and was aghast at what happened took his own life, such was the effect.”

    An equally valid alternate hypothesis is that Seamus McGreevy, having been caught dealing dope, opted suicide rather than go down with both the state and his compatriots pursuing him.

    OS: “Republicans are 100% against the drugs trade.”

    Not entirely true, given Republican ties with certain South American groups. At best, they object to it being on their turf… an’ t’is the cynic in me that thinks that enough “protection money” would water down even that level of objection to little more than dyspepsia…

  • Paddy

    Good post. Pity it is tarnished by all the nutcases rambling off on their own tangents. I wonder will the RIRA ever take stock. I liked Cuchulainn at school but the last man standing don’t make sense. Joining RIRA would be akin to signing one’s death warrant.

    Nice to know they have shot 20 people in Derry. That’s considerably more than the number of Brits they bagged.

    As regards drugs: who buys them anyway?

    I would much follow Portsmouth FC than RIRA. Less of a circus.

  • Rory Carr

    Republicans are 100% against the drugs trade. we are told by Old School, Republicans in this context meaning the “Real” IRA (presumably to differentiate them from the Virtual IRA which are only accessible via your X-Box).

    “Oh God!” is my immediate reaction, “I better be quick and redeem my Christmas gift vouchers from Boots before the bombing campaign starts.”

    Why else do you think, with so many empty houses in the Republic, this criminal gang decided to use the house of one of the former founders of the RIRA. Knowing full well it would be under surveillance and prone to raids?? – Old School also asks us (I enjoy this kind of quizzy thing. It’s good fun and passes the time nicely).

    Well, I answer, there could be two reasons:

    1. McGreevey was in cahoots with the criminal gang and insisted on holding the stash under his control.

    2. The criminal gang were stupid or frightened enough to agree to leave it in McGreevy’s house.

    Now I don’t know if my reasons are the true ones but they are certainly as plausible as Old School’s alternative state conspiracy theory and explain rather better a motive for his subsequent suicide since it would be relatively easy to beat a fit-up in court, nor would such a fit-up put him out-of-sorts with his RIRA associates, rather it would enhance his status as a poltical martyr, nor would he be in any danger from any criminal gang if it was merely a fit-up since there would be no criminal gang (other than the Gardaí if indeed he was being fitted-up), so no pressure to top himself.

    However, if he was really caught in possesion of such a large store of cannabis and he was in cahoots with a criminal gang and if some of his comrades might get shirty either from a sense of Puritanical zeal or dismay at loss of profits then the pressure to take a swift exit from it all is easily understood.

    I’m afraid I’m shaving with Occam’s Razor on this one, Old School – McGreevy looks bang to rights on the prima facie evidence and you’ll have to come up with a stronger defence if you wish to convince us otherwise.

    I must say though that I always feel a deep pang of compassion for any poor soul who is driven to take their own life, whatever the reason, whatever crimes may have been theirs, whatever differences I may have had with them, and I find it quite impossible not to breathe a silent prayer that perhaps somewhere they might now find peace.

  • old school

    Rory, it´s easy to slander a dead man unable to defend himself. You have not put forward any argument to counter my belief.
    Garda and media reports have stated that it is believed Mc Greevy was an innocent party in this scam. The man was fighting extradition for arms smuggling until his death. He was under 24 hour surveillance, and under bail conditions.You´ll see from the original post that even the Lithuanian charges were as a result of a “sting operation”, i.e a set up. Seamus has denied ever being in Lithuania in his life. He was to be framed and put away to protect British interests. He was an experienced operator with up to 40 years experience. Do you really think he would keep a cannabis factory in property under his name?
    Agent provocateurs or criminals with keys to his property, who may well have been paid agents certainly would have.
    Republicans are damned if they do and damned if they don´t.
    if they dont tackle drugs they are accused of being involved. If they do tackle drugs they are accused of being fascists.

  • joeCanuck

    If they do tackle drugs they are accused of being fascists.

    They don’t have to do that to be accused of being Fascists; they clearly are. They, and previous incarnations of the Nation’s protectors, claim to be socialists; unfortunately. their socialism is of the National Socialist variety.

  • Rory Carr

    If, as you say, Old School that “Garda and media reports have stated that it is believed Mc Greevy was an innocent party in this scam.” then I accept that he was not involved but that still begs the question as to how the cannabis came to be found on his property which you claim was under constant Garda surveillance.

    If the Garda are attesting to his non-involvement it seems highly unlikely that they planted the drugs.

    What remains now is for us to be informed by the RIRA as to what reasons they have to offer for the murder of Ciaran Doherty. Surely they are not suggesting that he planted such a large quantity of cannabis in McGreevy’s house unknown to him and then informed the Garda?

    It is a bit unreasonable to be steeped in conspiracy, secrecy, illegal drugs kidnap, torture and murder and then start screaming that it is not fair and that you have all been misunderstood or misrepresented by a hostile press.

    One simple fact of life is apparent to most good citizens and it is this:

    “Nice guys do not abduct, torture and murder their neighbours, even if those neighbours sell pot or play their music too loud.”

  • I am sick and tired of people making excuses for sadistic murderers.

    It did not matter whether the victim was involved with drugs, the police or the Taliban.

    Someone needed a victim, needed an example of his power and authority. This person, clearly into S&M needed no other excuse than the victims gang was smaller than his.

    Blame the Brits, particularly the English if that makes you feel better, but we have a sadistic murderer on the loose and if the police dont catch him he will become a serial killer.

  • skinbop

    old school – clearly you are either deluded, misguided or working for mi5 – which is it?