“then Stormont remains a mini-model of the old cold war doctrine of ‘mutually assured destruction’.”

BBC NI political editor Mark Devenport picks up on the “outstanding politician” Peter Robinson’s reference to “a clever device” to ensure full compliance on today’s “deal”. From Mark’s BBC report

Such a swift resort to pressure politics belies some of the high flown rhetoric on display at the launch of the Hillsborough Agreement. If this saga started with Martin McGuinness threatening the so called “nuclear option” then Stormont remains a mini-model of the old cold war doctrine of “mutually assured destruction”. No wonder one DUP source resorted to an old Ronald Reagan quote “Trust But Verify” to describe the spirit of this deal.

Although it didn’t necessarily start there

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  • FitzjamesHorse

    Mr Baker,
    A “clever device” or a “transparent device”?
    British politicians do “insincerity” brazenly but I think most people hearing what Brown said would have immediately realised that their “insincerity” radar was in full working order.
    Id suggest that Brown was building up Robbo for the benefit of his DUP critics. And perhaps sending out a signal that whatever the outcome of any findings against any individual member of Robbos inner circle…Brown was making a distinction.
    Of course this is the same Gordon Brown who posed alongside President Kharzai (sp) of Afghanistan last week. All friends together in public. Not so friendly in private conversation.

    If Brown or his successor could ditch Kharzai..they would.
    I daresay he would ditch Robinson as easily.

  • Ah, for heaven’s sake!

    Despite the international ego-massage, we’re dealing with the second fifteen here.

    If my bathroom scales are telling the truth (electronically), then, too, my backside is “outstanding”.

    This has been an on-going road-crash. If two Prime Ministers/Taoiseachs didn’t need the Staurday headlines, this would be a side-column item.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Indeed the only times that politicians are this effusive is when they are eulogising a relatively unknown backbencher in the House of Commons before a writ for a bye-election is moved.

    Not to be taken seriously.

  • Pete Baker

    Fitzy

    “British politicians do “insincerity” brazenly but I think most people hearing what Brown said would have immediately realised that their “insincerity” radar was in full working order.
    Id suggest that Brown was building up Robbo for the benefit of his DUP critics”

    Is that a reference to Shaun Woodward’s “outstanding politician” comment?

    Because he also applied it to Nigel Dodds, and to Martin McGuinness, and to Gerry Adams.

  • Pete Baker

    Ah, “Not to be taken seriously.”

    Indeed.

  • ardmaj55

    FJH you have perfectly punctured the hole in Baker’s argument. This is a sterling example of Robbo’s inability to get out of the bog. he is totally incapable of rising above the cynicism genetically hardwired into the DUP mindset since 1971.
    Robbo ascribes the same ‘siege mentality’ attitude he nurtures, to everybody he has to deal with. I almost wish that it was SDLP he was now dealing with, so his scerotic and politically retarded political would be exposed for all to see, but in that case, Robbo would then take the opportunity to endorse that, to shelter him from the accusation he knows would be accurate in his case.

  • FitzjamesHorse

    ardmaj55
    To be frank it was not a difficult thing to do. His “argument” had a lot of holes in it already.

  • Alias

    Hardly. Pete pointed out the Titanic-size gape in your augment, i.e. that publically praising Mr Robinson’s chief rival for the leadership of the DUP on terms as equally lavish as he praised the leader is not a tactic that is designed to consolidate the position of the leader at the expense of his rival. Therefore the evidence does not support your interpretation of it.

    I think that only a fool would now bet on the State taking any further action against Mr Robinson in regard to the allegations from its broadcasting service that he breached the Ministerial Code. It is also highly unlikely that any other related inquiry will return a verdict regarding Mr Robinson’s character that contradicts the verdict delivered by both the SoS and the prime minister.

    Agreement made under duress is not agreement at all.

  • Banjaxed

    It doesn’t matter. Robbo’s on his last legs. He may get the ermine for doing the deal but those whom the gods wish to destroy, the Unionists of Ulster first get a British Prime Minister to back the patsy to the hilt.

    As the poet Omar Khayyám once nearly said,
    ‘They’re bigger aginners
    Than the feckin Shinners’

  • FitzjamesHorse

    Indeed Banjaxed……its like a Premiership manager getting a vote of confidence from the Board of Directors.

  • lamhdearg

    i think pete/robbo, martin have done well all thing condsidered,but as for the rest of us, my job is not too secured .

  • Rory Carr

    “Agreement made under duress is not agreement at all.”

    That will be good news for the Algonquin Native Americans who can now anticipate the return of Manhattan while the Sioux retake Dakota and the Cheyenne and Kiowa are handed back Texas (but I expect the Mexicans might have something to say about that).

    I won’t mention the Treaty of Limerick.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I think that only a fool would now bet on the State taking any further action against Mr Robinson in regard to the allegations from its broadcasting service that he breached the Ministerial Code.

    You really need to drop this stupid black helicopter stuff. The allegations came from Selwyn Black and Kirk McCambley. The story did not arise out of sniffing around by reporters or by MI5; instead, Selwyn volunteered to blow the whistle.

    I don’t think anybody seriously believed that Robinson would be censured to any significant extent for the action that he took, namely quietly repaying the inappropriate donations when he heard about them.

  • ardmaj55

    FJH I’ve been following the debate over on the Talkback MB [as a former member] and the two SDLP supporters, MERIT and RED, are arguing that the ‘clever device’ robbo has inserted before the vote on P&J means SF has conceded the abolition of the Parades Commision, but I read it as a setting up of a preliminary working group to look into the ways a new structure can be put in place [and into law in SEPTEMBER. It will replace the PC in name only because the residents group will have an effective veto on anything weaker than PC being put in place. The PC will be in place until a similar ly effective Parades body takes over in December.
    As to the 50/50. this is due to run out this year or next anyway according to Patten provisions 50/50 is not being got rid of before it’s expiry date. Alex attwood is calling for it to be extended not accusing SF of a side deal with DUP.
    I think when all this is panned out, there will not be Orange Parades next year without agreement with residents. The ‘clever device’ is a figleaf SF have assented to help Robbo,but a figleaf nonetheless.
    I think this will help boost SF at westminster and next year’s assembly election.

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    Did’nt the cold war do its job for a long time (stop fiery war)

    And didn’t the good guys (America ? ?) win in the end.

    Okay Putin has put some chill back in but I love Vodka from the feezer in the glasses also from the freezer.

  • Comrade Stalin

    ardmaj,

    I doubt there’s much point in getting too far into conspiratorial thinking. The document that has come out of this process is full of kill switches which either the DUP or SF can invoke. Like the OFMDFM committee on parades reporting prior to the justice minister nominations taking place.

    After all the rubbish that unionists have been talking about the devolution of policing and justice powers being some kind of concession to republicans, it’s disappointing, but unsurprising, to see nationalists and republicans talking the same rubbish about the need to enshrine the Parades Commission. Nothing in this process should be off the table, and if abolishing the Parades Commission and implementing an alternative based on agreement, which would be accountable to regional or local politicians, what’s there to object to ? If you’re going to say “you can’t trust local politicians to make the right call” you’ve just made the same argument that unionists have been making to avoid devolving P+J.

    The 50/50 thing in police recruitment needs to go. It has served its purpose, and now all it is doing is discriminating against potential candidates for the service. Anyone who argues for it’s retention is essentially arguing that the police can’t be trusted if there are too many Prods in it – a sectarian perspective if there ever was one.

  • ardmaj55

    Comrade Stalin [16] You’re right, of course about the Parades Commosion, Some nats [SDLP in particular] are treating it as sacrosanct as though it was a principle in itself, and it’s safeguards unavailable to any other mechanism. This is patently untrue, the PC is but a device, whose conditions can be carried over. The residents groups will not agree to any marching without their approval. This undermines the whole point of marches because how can you have a triumphal gesture which reqiures the proir permission of those who you want to gloat over.
    I think the DUP have been forced to acknowledge the ‘queen’s highway’ argument cuts both ways, by the existence of PC, so it’s no longer a sacred cow in itself. The DUP has caved in on this as well as P&J.

  • Greenflag

    Comrade Stalin,

    “The 50/50 thing in police recruitment needs to go.’

    Eventually yes but not for a decade at least imo. As long as ‘unionists’ throw up the likes of the TUV and the troglodytes of the far right then Irish Nationalists and Republicans need to ensure that the PSNI is representative of the wider community and becomes more so . This is in everybody’s interest.

    ‘It has served its purpose’

    It’s been a help but it’s purpose remains to be served .

    ‘ and now all it is doing is discriminating against potential candidates for the service.’

    True -but then how long has it been in operation as compared to say the 70 years in which nationalists were effectively closed out of ‘jobs ‘ in the RUC ?

    ‘Anyone who argues for it’s retention is essentially arguing that the police can’t be trusted if there are too many Prods in it’

    No they’re not. They are saying that there are/were not enough RC’s ‘. This is why the old RUC were perceived as being the effective paramilitary arm of the Ulster Unionist Party. And that as we should all recall did not help the RUC in it’s role in the ‘troubles’ .

    ‘a sectarian perspective if there ever was one.’

    I agree Comrade Stalin but that is the NATURE of the NI State in it’s past, present and probable future formats . I would like to see a society where an individual’s religious or ethnic background is irrelevant when it comes to picking recruits for the police or any other arm of government . But NI is not there yet and may be several generations away from a non sectarian perspective if ever .

    The best that can be hoped for is to moderate those perspectives over time and this is happening . When and if the walls ever come down might be a good time to look again at the 50/50 provision.

    The SDLP were correct in making their policy statement on this issue .

    As for OO parades the OO should not march where they are not wanted . With 3,000 or more uncontested ‘marches’ throughout NI every summer why does the OO/DUP want to get their collective knickers in a twist over 4 or 5 ? Oh I forgot it’s the principle of the Queen’s Highway .
    Horseshite .

    The NI Government should move to enact legislation to make ALL organisations , cultural , national and religious. and politicial , financially liable for any destruction or littering or riots /police overtime necessitated by their activities .

  • Greenflag

    Comrade Stalin,

    “The 50/50 thing in police recruitment needs to go.’

    Eventually yes but not for a decade at least imo. As long as ‘unionists’ throw up the likes of the TUV and the troglodytes of the far right then Irish Nationalists and Republicans need to ensure that the PSNI is representative of the wider community and becomes more so . This is in everybody’s interest.

    ‘It has served its purpose’

    It’s been a help but it’s purpose remains to be served .

    ‘ and now all it is doing is discriminating against potential candidates for the service.’

    True -but then how long has it been in operation as compared to say the 70 years in which nationalists were effectively closed out of ‘jobs ‘ in the RUC ?

    ‘Anyone who argues for it’s retention is essentially arguing that the police can’t be trusted if there are too many Prods in it’

    No they’re not. They are saying that there are/were not enough RC’s ‘

    ‘a sectarian perspective if there ever was one.’

    I agree Comrade Stalin but that is the NATURE of the NI State in it’s past and present formats . I would like to see a society where an individual’s religious or ethnic background is irrelevant when it comes to picking recruits for the police or any other arm of government . NI is not there yet and in my view may be several generations away from a non sectarian perspective if ever .

    The best that can be hoped for is to moderate those perspectives and this is happening . When and if the walls ever come down might be a good time to look again at the 50/50 provision.

    The SDLP were correct in making their policy statement on this issue .

    As for OO parades the OO should not march where the locals don’t want them . With 3,000 or more uncontested ‘marches’ throughout NI every summer why does the OO/DUP want to get their collective knickers in a twist over 4 or 5 ? Oh I forgot it’s the principle of the Queen’s Highway .
    Horseshite .

    The NI Government should move to enact legislation to make ALL organisations , cultural , national and religious. and politicial , financially liable for any destruction or littering or riots /police overtime necessitated by their activities .

  • Greenflag

    oops

    Please delete 19 -repetition for emphasis error 🙁