“a grave injustice to the whole aspect of truth..”

An Irish Times report headline claims, “McGuinness defends Gerry Adams over handling of sex abuse claims”. But as the BBC report makes clearer, that ‘defence’ was another attack on the media

“Quite clearly people are using it to affect Gerry Adams’ leadership of Sinn Fein,” Mr McGuinness said. “I think that Gerry Adams has made a massive contribution to what is clearly now one of the most important peace processes in the world today. “I think those who try to attack him on an issue that has enormous ramifications for his siblings and his family do a grave injustice to the whole aspect of truth which is vital and key and central in all of this.”

The BBC might want to check the timeline… In fact, Martin McGuinness hasn’t addressed any of the questions about Gerry Adams’ ‘handling’ of the allegations. Allegations which Martin McGuinness has now stated he was unaware of. And, as Brian Feeney suggested in yesterday’s Irish News

It’s bad enough that Gerry Adams’s explanation for his inaction since hearing about the allegations in 1987 is full of holes, but what matters is that in political terms Gerry Adams becomes the story.

As “Gary Eves” told Newton Emerson

Q: So you feel that more openness could help those affected?

A: I have been advised to refer all further questions on openness to my solicitor.

, , , , ,

  • granni trixie

    Actually,if it was anybody else (and perhaps this is the point)I would have some sympathy with GA – we are all human and can handle a crisis badly. But this particular case, we see a man looking for understanding when he has lied over the years, preached about “justice” and presided over a situation in his own consitituency and beyond where young people have been physically abused and exiled. Need I say more?

  • “do a grave injustice to the whole aspect of truth” … MMcG

    This would be the same Martin McGuinness who hid behind the PIRA ‘code of honour’ when he had an opportunity to reveal more of the truth to the Saville Inquiry.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    So Coco didn’t even get the courtesy of a heads-up before the spotlight programme went out? Just as well he happened to be watching or he might still not know. It’s one of those rare occasions where it would be more damaging if turned out he was telling the truth.

  • alan56

    MMcG looked like he was saying a mantra yesterday…Gerry Adams huge contribution.. one of most important peace precess in world etc…etc. Oh and of course blame some media..BUT, he really didn’t address any issue at all !

  • Politicians don’t lie, they engage in ‘verbal inconsistencies’. It also helps if they keep their lips sealed.

  • Seamus

    For me the choice of venue and company he chose was pathetic.
    He surrounded himself with the family members of the Blood Sunday victims to launch this sympathetic endorsement of Adams, the victim in all of this by Martins account.
    Affording himself the comfort of not having a proper question and answer session.
    Pathetic and so transparent.

  • KateMcC

    I noticed that Sinn Fein attempted to duplicate the DUP’s show of strength for Adams on the steps of Stormont. I had difficulty recognising any of them, apart from Anderson,other high profile members e.g. Maskey, Murphy, Ruane were absent.
    Maybe nothing in it.
    Many deluded ‘provos’ insist that the British have the most to lose from the truth – I don’t think so. The British state is a much more sophisticated and experienced entity – it is those who lived amongst the community and who participated in gross abuses of human rights of their neighbours and their neighbours children (and in some cases their own children) who have the most to fear.
    Grandiose statements such as ‘..the most important peace processes in the world’ are illustrative of the bubble they live in.
    Why doesn’t Martin call for an inquiry?

  • Driftwood

    what is clearly now one of the most important peace processes in the world

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/delusions+of+grandeur

  • Secret Squirrel
  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    it seems to me by that statement that Martin McGuiness is using it more to say he knew nothing about Liam and what he did or did not do. It wasn’t a message of support for gerry …it was a message that martin saw no evil…heard no evil…or spoke no evil regarding the sex abuse in gerry’s family. Gerry might be pushed out soon.

  • milo

    I think i noticed Martina Anderson and Sue Ramsey offering support to wee Marty. I recall them calling for Ryan-style public inquiries into abuse at institutions in the north during October and November last year.

    Their calls can be read on the SF website:
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17662
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/17666

    I think the lines “Victims in the North deserve to have their abuse and mistreatment acknowledged; there needs to be full accountability and restitution from the religious orders. They need to fully accept their moral obligation to the victims,” are particularly poignant and apt.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hi Milo, great post and fantastic find!

  • Mr. J.

    Secret Squirrel,

    The website you posted is a dead link.

    Ahem.

  • Secret Squirrel

    Nitemare. :O(
    I’ll look into it.

  • [i]“I think that Gerry Adams has made a massive contribution to what is clearly now one of the most important peace processes in the world today.[/i]

    The ‘peace process’ has for a long time been a special catch-all term which allows politicians to elevate themselves above the law in the interests of political expediency. As if Adams’ role in the peace process should even come into this story!

  • What surprises me is the ineptitude of Sinn Fein in handling this issue. Shouldn’t these slick operators be covering themselves a little better?
    Adams should have seen that his version of his long estrangement from his brother would easily be picked apart.
    McGuinness hasn’t the wit to see that he sounds like a complete clown when he offers as a defence of Adams that he is a global statesman who should be above scrutiny because he produced on the of the greatest peace processes in the world. What world is he living in?

  • Malachi, I think the slick operators began departing from the SF tent when the 1998 Agreement was endorsed and probably had mostly gone around the time of decommissioning – leaving the headless chickens to carry on the show.

  • Mr McGuinness needs to understand that people can go off him!

    If he was not involved, in any way or coverup of the abuse of children and girls, then he should say so.

    What he should not do is tell us he knew nothing about the issue before he saw it on television. If that were the case evidently el presidentie saw no reason to inform his deputy that the biggest scandal ever to hit the north was about to burst upon them.

    He has an opportunity to move himself and the party forward and away from this. He will no do it trying to defend the indefensible.

  • Mr McGuinness needs to understand that people can go off him!

    If he was not involved, in any way or coverup of the abuse of children and girls, then he should say so.

    What he should not do is tell us he knew nothing about the issue before he saw it on television. If that were the case evidently el presidentie saw no reason to inform his deputy that the biggest scandal ever to hit the north was about to burst upon them.

    He has an opportunity to move himself and the party forward and away from this. He will no do it trying to defend the indefensible.

  • We know what the Derry IRA did to sex offenders; the example is the murder of John Collett in Shantallow on December 13 1992.

  • malachi

    Yes but was John Collett a member of the IRA or any affiliated group?

  • tacapall

    The Kincora Boys’ Home was a home for working boys in Belfast that was the scene of a notorious child sex abuse scandal.

    The scandal first came to public attention in January 1980 after a news report in the Irish Independent. On 3 April 1980 three members of staff at the home, William McGrath, Raymond Semple and Joseph Mains, were charged with a number of offences relating to the systematic abuse of children in their care over a number of years. All three were later convicted and jailed. Mains the former warden received a term of six years, Semple a former assistant warden, five years and McGrath four years.

    McGrath was also the leader of an obscure loyalist paramilitary group, called Tara.

    Allegations were later made that the Royal Ulster Constabulary had been informed of the abuse at the home for years previously, but had not moved to prevent it. In his 1999 book The Dirty War, Martin Dillon claims that McGrath may have been employed by MI5 since the 1960s.[1] The tabloid press then linked the home with a whole series of establishment figures without any evidence being provided.

    Dr Ian Paisley, leader of the DUP and moderator of the Free Presbyterian Church, was accused of failing to report the fact of McGrath’s homosexuality to the relevant authorities although he denied ever being advised by his informant, a church member, Miss Valerie Shaw, that McGrath worked in a boys’ home. McGrath was himself married with children.

    We’ve been here before only the shoe was on the other foot, Ian Paisley Junior and Poots, etc, would do well to look up their own history before
    throwing mud.

  • tacapall

    Exactly, this is not about politics, religion or Ireland/UK.

    This is about child abuse and sexual sadism, inflicted upon people living in both communities.

    Martin McGuinness needs to be fully aware of that and of the consequences of dithering or evading the issue.

    And, they should reopen the investigation into Kincora, it still, after all these years, looks like sacrificial lambs and coverup.

  • OscarTheGrouch

    Pippakin,

    I agree completely, there seems to be a growing difference not between nationalist and unionist but between those who wish to defend politicians and parties and those who want nobody to be beyond the rule of law especially reagarding rape and child abuse.

    For goodness sake if there is any issues still outstanding about Kincora or any other abuse perpetrated by anyone who wants to stand for public office – lets get them out in the open.

    As a democrat I will abide by the vote of the people, but I then also have a right to freedom of information, and the right to be protected by normal democartic laws.

  • Paddy

    Martin McGuinness has been associated with some of the vilest atrocities of the Troubles. He has a long standing relationship with Gerry Adams. He has been suggested to be Britain’s top agent. He has no credibility to speak on matters of morals. Stomach churning to hear from this “man”.

  • tacapall

    Very True Pip, but these blogs and some of the comments are not here for that, this it seems is a witch hunt against Sinn Fein, throwing mud about to see if it can stick to anyone. The common denominator in these allegations is the RUC but we dont see a point of topic of its own on that.

    Allegations were later made that the Royal Ulster Constabulary had been informed of the abuse at the home for years previously, but had not moved to prevent it.

    And for people to try and link Martin Mc Guinness to it well thats just hypocrisy, as Im sure if we dug deeper into Kincora we would find a very bigger picture of the connections between loyalist paramilitaries, Unionist political parties and churches and child abuse.

  • iluvni

    During interviews with these serial lairs, do any interviewers ever laugh, shake their head or perhaps, say bollocks at some of the answers they receive…?

  • Oscar the Grouch Tacapall

    Yes it is infuriating to see the subject continually being pushed to the political issues. Sinn Fein should do what any party north or south would do, suspend the accused, without prejudice, pending the results of investigations or trials. Sinn Fein are big now, they have to rid themselves of the past and move on. Others have to recognise, as they would if it were any other party, that one person accused does not besmirch the party, only its own inaction can do that.

    Tacapall

    Totally agree there are questions (yet again) hanging over the then RUC. It may be that these cannot be answered until after the investigations into the current cases, based upon the results, we will know exactly what the RUC involvement was and how deep the enquiry into them needs to go.

  • Scaramoosh

    What is the standard of truth that McGuinness applies, now that he is a member of the political class, and is that standard different from the one that he applied when he was a leading Provo?

    Lots and lots of accusations of Sinn Fein bashing, but a total absence of any articulate responses from Sinn Fein supporters, to the points that are being raised. Is that down to the fact that you are all on message?

  • Mr Crowley

    As with the Comical Marty ‘interview’ yesterday, Dear Leader had a BBC platform this evening. No questions were asked of the shinners, they were simply allowed to spout their spin. Dear Leader was particularly nauseating with his ‘poor me, I’m the victim’ act. State media facilitating the protection of state assets?

  • Mr Crowley

    I have to agree it was excruciating to watch, but then Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are hardly ever asked real questions any more.

  • ranger1640

    tacapall

    Very True Pip, but these blogs and some of the comments are not here for that, this it seems is a witch hunt against Sinn Fein, throwing mud about to see if it can stick to anyone. The common denominator in these allegations is the RUC but we dont see a point of topic of its own on that.

    Allegations were later made that the Royal Ulster Constabulary had been informed of the abuse at the home for years previously, but had not moved to prevent it.

    And for people to try and link Martin Mc Guinness to it well thats just hypocrisy, as Im sure if we dug deeper into Kincora we would find a very bigger picture of the connections between loyalist paramilitaries, Unionist political parties and churches and child abuse.
    Posted by tacapall on Jan 20, 2010 @ 06:41 PM

    And who is throwing mud now tacapall

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Hitler rescued the German economy after world war one and was put on the cover of TIME magazine. Does that mean people should overlook everything else Hitler did? We all know the answer is NO.

    Mcguinness said. “I think that Gerry Adams has made a massive contribution to what is clearly now one of the most important peace processes in the world today.

    Does mcguinness’s statement mean we should overlook everthing else gerry adams did? We all know the answer is NO too bad mctuinness’ statement didn’t say that.

  • tacapall

    And who is throwing mud now tacapall
    Posted by ranger1640 on Jan 20, 2010 @ 08:32 PM

    Im not throwing any mud I am reminding people that there are other people involved in this cover up, and for certain Unionist politicians calling for inquiries into if Gerry Adams could have broke the law, the phrase “people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones” comes to mind.

    Mr Crowley

    The results of the official police investigations into the Kincora Scandal are “Sealed” to this day because of the influence of certain UK political heavy-weights!

    For reasons of the type you suggested I pressume.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    What about people who don’t live in glass houses. We can carry on can we?

  • Ranger1640

    Theres plenty of mud to go around!

    It is true, some seem very interested in attacking GA they refuse to see a family tragedy as a possible explanation for reticence. Others defend him so vociferously they refuse to see any error, and there are errors!

    Gerry Adams has left more questions than he has answered, the new allegations lead to yet more and all we hear are blanket denials, with a hint of ‘poor me’ thrown in for effect.

    He must answer the questions fully.

    KathyC

    Martin McGuinness has for the first time since this began, tried to defend GA. It annoyed me, so it has probably infuriated others. He has got to distance himself from the abuse claims, if he is mired in them he is in trouble.

    Hitler is a classic example of ‘absolute power…’ we can only hope the saying does not extend to these little fiefdoms.

  • the future is bright the future is orange

    latest news:

    Woman rejects SF abuse account

    Ms Cahill has rejected Padraic Wilson’s claims
    A woman who said she was raped by a leading republican has rejected two Sinn Fein members’ accounts of how they tried to help her.

    The woman, Ms Cahill, has said she was raped by an IRA man in 1997.

    On Tuesday, Padraic Wilson and Seamus Finucane, who are also former IRA men, issued statements detailing how they tried to deal with the case.

    But Ms Cahill has described their involvement as “forced” and “mishandled”.

    At the time of her alleged abuse, when she was aged 16, Ms Cahill, a great-niece of veteran republican Joe Cahill, was working for the West Belfast Festival radio station.

    She was staying with her alleged attacker and his wife while her parents were on holiday.

    Three years after the alleged rape, Ms Cahill met Mr Wilson and Mr Finucane, who were IRA members at the time.

    In his statement on Tuesday, Mr Wilson said he spoke to Ms Cahill and another member of her family. He said he stressed throughout “that the only way that the situation could be dealt with was by bringing it directly to the social services.”

    He added that Ms Cahill had not wanted to take that path.

    However that has been rejected by Ms Cahill.

    In his statement on Tuesday, Seamus Finucane said that Ms Cahill did not wish to involve the RUC in the investigation.

    She has also rejected that account as “untrue”.

  • Mr Crowley

    Mr Crowley

    The results of the official police investigations into the Kincora Scandal are “Sealed” to this day because of the influence of certain UK political heavy-weights!

    For reasons of the type you suggested I pressume.
    Posted by tacapall on Jan 20, 2010 @ 08:44 PM

    The Brits/Loyalists did it so that makes it ok for shinners to coverup sexcrime?
    In this case of Kincora it was British agents involved in the sex crime and coverup. There’s a fairly good chance that much the same happened vis a vis the shinners.

  • ranger1640

    Not wanting to insult the intelligence of the pro Gerry Adams,Sinn Fein,republicanism posters on this board. But are they so devout to Gerry Adams,Sinn Fein,republicanism, can they not countenance any wrong doing form the same.

    Why is Gerry Adams getting so defensive, suggesting he will be handing out writs if the media keep up their pursuit of this issue.

    Does he not realise as a politician (and at lest in his own mind a world leader), he is up there to be knocked along with his party when their is more than the whiff of scandal, especially of the child sexual abuse type???

    If Gerry is so sensitive maybe he should leave the stage, and more importantly for the long term well being of Sinn Fein. Having such a sensitive leader could lead them into dark places they don’t want to be in!!!

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “Why is Gerry Adams getting so defensive, suggesting he will be handing out writs if the media keep up their pursuit of this issue.”

    Presumably because he thinks the papers are gullible enough to take the threat seriously.

  • Peter Fyfe

    ranger1640

    If the talk of lawsuits mean somebody is wrong, god help Peter Robinson, does he ever stop threatening legal action?

    Eamon Mallie: Did you beat your wife up?

    Normal Person: No

    Peter Robinson: I’ll sue you because an author once said I didn’t

  • ranger1640

    Classic response Jimmy!!!

    Right so it’s all the media’s fault Jimmy!!!

    So UTV got it wrong in the interview with Gerry when he admitted he believed Aine Tyrell, and the Sunday Tribune were wrong when they exposed the discrepancies in Gerry’s time lines and his less than estrangement for Liam???

  • Peter Fyfe

    Jimmy Sands

    Do you doubt they are? Other than the ST and IN, nobody showed their courage to take on the story. Does smack of desperation though. Probably will be enough to scare a few of them off.

  • ranger1640

    It really is ourselves alone, poor old Gerry and Sinn Fein.

    Here we go again Gerry and Sinn Fein victims of the media and the nasty world that doesn’t understand them.

    More classic we are the victims mantra.

    Funny when old friends fall out how spiteful they can become!

  • Peter Fyfe

    ranger1640

    Who is defending Gerry

  • ranger1640

    Peter

    I know I’m not.

  • tacapall

    What about people who don’t live in glass houses. We can carry on can we?
    Posted by Jimmy_Sands on Jan 20, 2010 @ 08:49 PM

    Is that a bit of Wit, or sarcasm, whats your problem ? why not just say if you disagree.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Peter,

    I doubt it. How many times has he threatened to sue? I’ve lost count. I think most papers ignore it because the Adams angle is not really that big a story. Had he simply said what I suspect is the truth – that he was uncomfortable with the whole business and hoped after the complaint was withdrawn it would all go away – the pack would have moved on. Instead he had to make up these silly stories about kicking his brother out of the party and warning his employers, assuming that no-one would bother to check. As these lies have probably harmed no-one but Adams himself their only value is for mocking grisly, which is always fun, but hardly newsworthy. The more serious story is the culture of immunity that sheltered these rapists, but that story isn’t specifically about Adams.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Tacapall,

    Whataboutery is a besetting sin of these discussions and I’m afraid I’ve little patience for it. I assure you that if you’re looking to put Papa Doc on a bonfire I’ll happily light it for you.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Given your clearly sincere desire to get to the bottom of all this, I take it you’ll be calling for an inquiry into the comments allegedly made by Aine Tyrell’s mother, Sally? You know, the ones where she alleged the police were more interested inrecruiting them as informers rather than dealing with the child abuse allegation?

    Nope? Thought not.

    Screw the fact that it was the police’s LEGAL duty to do something – let’s attack a republican who was under no legal obligation to do anything at all, eh?

    Pathetic.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    UW,

    If you bother to read my comments you’ll see I don’t think this is really about Adams at all. And if either woman has a complaint about the police I would certainly encourage them to take it to the ombudsman. It’s hardly my job any more than it is yours to complain on their behalf.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Here’s another point,

    If – as it has been alleged – the police tried to recruit an ABUSE VICTIM as an informer, then how many ABUSERS might have been offered a deal for info?

    But you lot don’t want to be bothering with questions regarding the ACTUAL PEOPLE WHOSE LEGAL DUTY it was to protect kids now do ya, eh?

    Nah, lets just jump on Shinner. Screw the implications for child protection if the police – allegedly – were exploiting the abused and the abusers, eh?

  • tacapall

    Whataboutery is a besetting sin of these discussions and I’m afraid I’ve little patience for it. I assure you that if you’re looking to put Papa Doc on a bonfire I’ll happily light it for you.
    Posted by Jimmy_Sands on Jan 20, 2010 @ 09:47 PM

    Not a problem Jimmy, just reminding people that child abuse and cover up’s are not unique in this country, nor the involvement of politicians in its cover up.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    UW, hypothetically yes, but of course the flaw in your argument, as many of us are now tired of pointing out, is that these “facts” appear to exist only in your head. Wanting them to be true won’t make them so.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Interestingly, The Irish News’ daily campaign against Adams – which, of course is based on as yet totally unproven allegations – has been more comprehensive than their coverage of the ENTIRELY PROVEN FACTS of sexual abuse by Catholic priests.

    Nice to see the Irish News getting its priorities so right.

    Then again, given that the P&J deal and the imminent election of Alaistar McDonnell (who makes Mark Durkan seem interesting) will ensure the final – and long overdue – demise of the Stoop Down Low Party, you can understand the Irish News getting desperate.

    Looks like they’re running out of steam though. Today’s effort was only 2.5 pages of largely rehashed stuff. Oh dear.

    Note to Irish News editor: Why not ask Suzanne Breen to follow up comments allegedly made by Sally Tyrell? You know, the ones where she’s meant to said that the police tried to recruit them as informers rather than deal with the sex abuse allegation?

    No? Thought not.

  • UlsterWatcher

    So, Jimmy, are you claiming that it has not been reported that Sally Tyrell claimed the police were more interested in getting info from them?

    Well?

  • UlsterWatcher

    Jimmy?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Yes she did say that was her impression.

  • Blair

    Ulster watcher,

    So how do you feel about the way the Sinners have tried to wriggle out of this?

  • ranger1640

    It will be interesting to see how this type of media coverage and focus on Gerry and Sinn Fein, is perceived in the minds and therefore the voting habits of female nationalist republicans???

  • Blair

    ranger,

    It won’t faze them. Their hatred of unionists is stronger than any concerns they might have about children.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Oh dear, Ranger and Blair have started to meltdown.
    Aye, those evil fenian wenches…they eat kids they do.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Mick, are you happy your site is being used to peddle sectarian garbage such as that espoused by Blair?

  • Alias

    “So, Jimmy, are you claiming that it has not been reported that Sally Tyrell claimed the police were more interested in getting info from them?” – UlsterWatcher

    A 14 year old girl who is estranged from her PIRA father is unlikely to be of no use as a police informer.

    At any rate, the allegation from Aine’s mother isn’t that the police tried to recruit her daughter as an informer but that they tried to recruit her, and that they seemed more interested in intelligence gathering than in processing the alleged child rape.

    If the police wanted to recruit the abuser as an informer, then the price of doing that would be that the charges against him were not processed. Clearly the police could not say to the mother, “Sorry, but Liam has signed up to work for us, so you and your daughter can fuck off home now. We won’t be prosecuting our agent. Thank you very much.” Instead they’d have to persuade the mother to drop the charges without telling her the reason they wanted her to drop them.

    Since she did drop the charges, they obviously knew what they were doing – and did it rather well.

    Also, in case it isn’t obvious, the police would say to the mother, “Would you like to earn some money as a tout, and maybe get a bullet in your head into the bargain, thereby leaving your child in the care of her abusing father on your departure from this life?” That would lack a slight degree of subtlety. Instead they would give the mother the impression that they are trying to recruit her via the normal method, i.e. getting the potential informant to supply so-called “soft” intelligence at first and then, once the informant is compromised, using the threat of exposing the informant to demand “hard” intelligence.

  • Blair

    UlsterWatcher,

    What sectarian garbage? How do you think the Sinners will get on with their attempt to protect the Dear Leader?

  • Alias

    Typo: “…is unlikely to be of [b[any[/b] use as a police informer.”

  • UlsterWatcher

    Blair,

    You said in response to Ranger’s comments about how ‘female nationalist republicans’ might now vote…”It won’t faze them..Their hatred of unionists is stronger than any concerns they might have about children.”

    And you can’t see the sectarianism?

    Mick, once again, are you happy that your site is being used to peddle sectarian filth?

  • Blair

    UlsterWatcher,

    Well if I’m wrong the Uncle Gerry’s vote will collapse in May. What do you think are the chances of that?

  • Jimmy_Sands

    Alias,

    And how do the current charges fit in with this conspiracy theory?

  • Eileen Calder

    Ulsterwatcher thamks be to God you are only watching and not living here – did I just imagine what you said about the Catholic Church????? Am I drunk, insane, hallucinating or just going blindly menopausal? Are you denying clerical abuse of children???

  • ranger1640

    Ulsterwatcher:

    You seem to be getting very perplexed with the Irish News and the Sunday Tribune?

    How could the Irish News and the Sunday Tribune, have the audacity to have a differing view to nationalist politics, than that of the great leader and his party?

    (Will we see Gerry in the Sinn Fein kitchen at parties, or will he cry if he wants too)

    should we only read the Sinn Fein weekly the republican, you won’t find a descenting voice there.

  • Eileen Calder

    I am all of these and misread your post will go to bed and join debate 2moro

  • Mr Crowley

    Screw the fact that it was the police’s LEGAL duty to do something – let’s attack a republican who was under no legal obligation to do anything at all, eh?

    Pathetic.
    Posted by UlsterWatcher on Jan 20, 2010 @ 09:56 PM

    The peelers/state were mostly likely concerned with protecting an informer or informers within the Adams family; possibly even Dear Leader himself. You can be sure that the compromising information was used against Dear Leader in an era when IRA members started dying in ambushes on a regular basis.
    We always knew that the state police were and are vile, no matter Dear Leader’s empty rhetoric about putting ‘manners on them.’ We just never knew that the shinner leadership were as bad if not worse; until now.

  • UlsterWatcher

    Eileen, I’m unclear what you’re saying there. Why on earth would I deny the priest abuse scandal?

    Mick, Blair’s comment is clearly sectarian. Do something about will ya?

    Cheers.

  • Roisin

    [quote]Had he simply said what I suspect is the truth – that he was uncomfortable with the whole business and hoped after the complaint was withdrawn it would all go away – the pack would have moved on. Instead he had to make up these silly stories about kicking his brother out of the party and warning his employers, assuming that no-one would bother to check. As these lies have probably harmed no-one but Adams himself their only value is for mocking grisly, which is always fun, but hardly newsworthy.[/quote]

    Agreed.

    That said, it seems to me that he did try to do something about it, although I reckon again he tried to do it quietly without telling anyone (who wants to broadcast their brother is an incestuous child rapist?). Liam seems to have disappeared from the scene for about a decade following the allegations, resurfacing in Louth around 1996/1997, and was only chair for a couple of months before resigning citing “personal reasons” (did GA tell him to buzz off?). He then apparently comes back to Belfast and it’s said he was involved in one community group or another between 1998 and 2006. GA said he didn’t know all about Liam’s business or activities, and that seems to be the stuff of enquiry at the present time. But if he told him to get lost in Louth circa 1997, why would he want him hanging around his own back yard in 1998?

    Correct me if I’m wrong, because I’ve only read this posted elsewhere, but did he advise his niece to go back to the police in 2002? If so, it hardly fits with the idea of him trying to cover up for Liam, or wanting Liam anywhere around his own constituency.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    “did he advise his niece to go back to the police in 2002?”

    I doubt it. I’m open to correction I think it’s something UW made up for the thread. In the 90s Adams was still calling for abuse victims not to go to the police. SF didn’t sign off on the PSNI until 2007. I think it’s probably inaccurate to accuse him of covering up for Liam. My guess is he didn’t really do anything at all but wants people to think he did.

  • Alias

    “And how do the current charges fit in with this conspiracy theory?” – Jimmy Sands

    Well, it is a theory in regard to the recruitment of the abuser in this case, but my description of the security services’ methods and practice of recruiting informers can hardly be described as “conspiracy theory” unless you think that they would never do such things in that saintly province (and that, presumably, Denis Bradley was hallucinating about seeing row upon row of filing cabinets filled with the names of informers from members of the nationalist community).

    I don’t think that the fact that Aine approached the police at a later date to bring charges is relevant to what might have transpired at the earlier stage when her mother withdrew her complaint due to, she alleges, the attempt by the police to recruit her as an informer.

    As I said above, the police would have to persuade the mother to drop the charges without telling her the reason why they wanted her to drop them. If the mother or the daughter approached the police again at a later date, then the police would again have to seek to persuade them not to proceed without declaring the reason. If Aine cannot then be persuaded not to proceed in 2007, then what can the police do about it? Nothing. But then again, what have the police done about it since she reinstated the complaint? Nothing.

    At this point, assuming the abuser was recruited as an informer, then he is of no current practical use to his handlers. Therefore they would have no reason to continue his protection other than fear of disclosure of the original reason why the mother was given the impression by the police that she would be required to become a police informer as a condition of her daughter receiving justice via the state.

    No, it’s too late now for the police to protect an informer at the expense of Ms Tyrell. The hold that the Shinners have over their community via fear is breaking down, and the support of agencies such as the Rape Crisis Centre and of journalists of the calibre of Ms Breen ensures that these people aren’t afraid anymore to demand what is rightfully theirs: justice.

  • Jimmy_Sands

    I understand the MO, but it’s pure assumption on your part based on nothing that it happened in this case and I don’t imagine that if your scenario was correct that they’d have any bother losing the file this time round.