UUP would serve with a Sinn Fein First Minister?

Interesting interview with Lord Trimble:

Half way down the page.

From 2:15:
“…It’s a matter of symbolism rather than substance…I’m not sure to what extent that would be a problem..”

I wonder what the DUP attitude will be.

  • abc123

    Lord Trimble said Mr Robinson had “lost his authority within the party and the system”.

    Mmm … that’ll be the same Trimble who lost all authority within his party but kept going regardless.

  • Paul

    Well Trimble over saw the complete desruction of the UUP who had 10 MPs when he was elected leader and when he finally went the UUP were left with just one MP so why he stayed as UUP leader for so long is beyond me.So anybody following this mans line on anything are not thinking straight

  • Paul

    Yes Trimbles cast iron pledge promise in the UUP manifesto No guns no government.Which as we all witnessed was not worth the paper it was written on.

  • abc123

    Sinn Fein P-IRA Bomber Gerry Kelly was on Newsnight the other day to remind the British public that it’s a joint office and McGuinness is the joint First Minister.

    Therefore, it is a matter of symbolism rather than substance. Most people want a voluntary coalition as the current system is not workable e.g. Cat Ruin as Education Minister.

  • Lionel Hutz

    It is a matter of symbolism. I’m not sure which is sadder; that unionists would find it disgusting to allow it; or that nationalist feel that they need it.

    Tbh I never understood the difference in titles when it doesn’t reflect the fact that both are equal. It’s just appeasing the unionists I suppose

  • Paul

    #

    Sinn Fein P-IRA Bomber Gerry Kelly was on Newsnight the other day to remind the British public that it’s a joint office and McGuinness is the joint First Minister.

    Therefore, it is a matter of symbolism rather than substance. Most people want a voluntary coalition as the current system is not workable e.g. Cat Ruin as Education Minister.
    Posted by abc123 on Jan 11, 2010 @ 01:42 AM

    who cares what gerry kelly says it seems its the sinners way or the high way well this process has other parties involved.For too long the sinners had it there own way under Trimble.thats the man we are discussing by the way I wouldnt think many people will take any notice of what Trimble says

  • Paul

    #

    It is a matter of symbolism. I’m not sure which is sadder; that unionists would find it disgusting to allow it; or that nationalist feel that they need it.

    Tbh I never understood the difference in titles when it doesn’t reflect the fact that both are equal. It’s just appeasing the unionists I suppose
    Posted by Lionel Hutz on Jan 11, 2010 @ 01:46 AM
    #

    #Theres an easy solution just amend the title to be joint first minster because thats what in effect it is.

  • Lionel Hutz

    I know. They’ll probably do it before the next assembly elections so no unionist has to suffer the indignity of being deputy

  • granni trixie

    Why is Trimble putting the boot in? Trying to be relevant in prep for Conservtives running things after next General election?

    At least PR worked long hours for NI whilst Mr T (according to research of Rick Wilford,QUB) give little time to it,which in itself is shameful. He should put his head down and keep quiet.

  • GFASupporterButRealist

    David Trimble and Seamus Mallon and later Mark Durkan may not have been the ideal political duo but they were a class act compared to the tawdry Paisley/Robinson/DUP and SF/McGuinness/Adams combination. Trimble, despite all the tribal criticism, believed in power sharing but power sharing with no arms on the table, under the table or outside the door. The DUP and SDLP cynically just stole Trimble’s and the SDLP’s political clothes after eogomaniac Blair particularly had abandoned the so-called “centre” for the extremes. And the NI electors voted as they did. Buyers’ remorse now ? Bit late…..And before we all get too critical of the Swish Family Robinson saga let’s not lose sight of the equally egregrious Adams family values cover up….

  • Harry J

    so empey will serve marty, excellent news for the DUP –

  • granni trixie

    GFSbut realist: In your admiration for Trimble you are not living up to your nom de plume. The research I referred to claimed that Trimble’s preferred option was staying in Westminster village – coming to NI on Thursdays when, because he had not read the papers, few decisions with ministerial collegues could be made.

    So although he may have had a faithful wife, in my book,professionally, PR is streets ahead.

  • Alias

    “…after eogomaniac Blair particularly had abandoned the so-called “centre” for the extremes.”

    True, and wouldn’t it be sweet to pull the quotes from a plethora of political pundits who hailed that strategy as pure brilliance? Now that it has gone tits-up and produced the stagnation they were told it would, they’d rather not be reminded that their lips were planted firmly on Blair’s butt cheeks at that time.

  • “BBC political editor Mark Devenport said DUP politicians had been put under strict orders not to speak to the media. ” …. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8450544.stm

    Orders from whom? Who is telling the children what to do and what to think? Who thinks to lead the DUP in their rapid decline into a closed order? Who is terrorising/bullying/mentoring members with media advice.
    Do they have a Director of [Cyber Security] Communications a la A Campbell? Do they need one?

    And yes, I know, sorry, that was a stupid obvious rhetorical last question. Of course they do.

    What is most revealing in all of the difficulties in Northern Ireland politics, and not just this little present day sleaze and slush funding spat, for of course it is politics and it attracts all manner of the most dishonorable and devious of members, as well as the most able and clever of beings, is the complete Lack of Intelligence and Supply of Mentoring Leadership from the Northern Ireland Office and the Westminster Government.

    For a brand spanking new Legislative Assembly such as is Stormont, with Members almost quite literally just plucked virgin from the street and the barricade and thrown into the heart and cauldron of Administrative Public Office with Responsibility and Accountability for the Physical Well Being and Positive Economic Growth of a Country and its Resident and Abiding and Transient and JUst Staying a While and Passing through Peoples, is a Period of Adjustment and Acclimatisation to the Levers of National and International and InterNetional Power to be fully expected, but from a Centuries Old Established Parliamentary Base is it nothing short of a Disgrace and Scandalous.

    J’accuse. Where is Intelligence Support? Confined to Palace Barracks or Deserted and AWOL from Duty? Or just Simply not yet put in ITs Place and IT Places? Come on MOD, pull your finger out, FFS, surely you can also do Civilian Homeland Administrative Office Supplies…… a la Basra IntelAIgent Theatre Model.

  • The Raven

    I can’t sleep; in reading post 14, are all the capital letters meant to spell something out in code, or am I just delirious from insomnia…??

  • Henry94

    abc123

    Most people want a voluntary coalition as the current system is not workable

    Do mean most people in your circle or have you done a scientific survey. Voluntary coalition is a non-runner because it would be madness for the SDLP to go into government without SF. So even if such a system was imposed those two parties would have to be involved. Unionists think the SDLP is a their disposal and they are deluded about that.

    Ye had yer chace at Sunningdale and ye blew it.

  • Dewi

    It’s a mArtian tHing rAven.

  • JoeBryce

    Coming from a unionist background, I would prefer a Sinn Fein first minister to none at all. The present DFM seems to do a pretty good job. Indeed, why not have a rotating FM / DFM, in the way that the Lord Mayoralty rotates? That seems to have worked pretty well.

    As for Robinson: Well, I always admired Trimble, & these people that sought to reap the benefits from the risks that better men took are getting their just deserts. Is it too glib to sloganise, Robinson(s) Must Go?

  • Comrade Stalin

    Sinn Fein P-IRA Bomber Gerry Kelly was on Newsnight the other day to remind the British public that it’s a joint office and McGuinness is the joint First Minister.

    It doesn’t really matter what Gerry or anyone else says. McGuinness’ title is “deputy First Minister”.

  • Garza

    This FM and DFM is really stupid. Any sane person knows that posts are equal. David Trimble is right. I couldn’t give a toss if Martin becomes first minister because he has been first minister for the last 3 years.

    Lets just get on with it and change the two posts to Joint First Minister.

  • TAFKABO

    Anyone who considers themselves a democrat will accept whoever people vote for, whether they like that choice or not.
    No Unionist can refuse to serve under a fairly and democratically elected Sinn Fein first minister and not be considered a bigot.
    Such an act would in effect be a denial of people’s free vote and a very dangerous road to go down, because when people are denied a free vote they have every right to effect change through other means.

  • Greenflag

    tafkabo,

    ‘No Unionist can refuse to serve under a fairly and democratically elected Sinn Fein first minister and not be considered a bigot’

    Many will have no problem being considered bigots particularly by their political opponents . They’re used to it and some benefit electorally from the ‘bigot’ perception . If they can’t accept an SF Minister for P&J why would they support an SF FM ? . The road ahead may see a strengthening in UUP representation but not enough to erase the DUP who may recover lost support under another leader . The TUV are well placed now to benefit from the DUP’s discomfort . Post election will the TUV stay in or out ? or will they drag the DUP of Dodds for example with them into the political abyss ? The UUP would then be very much a junior party to SF and the SDLP in any new administration . The stage would be set for a return to 1974 with ‘unionist’ alienation leading to renewed civil disturbance etc etc .

    Deja vu with the only difference being 21st century political acronyms .

    Greenflag.

  • abc123

    Henry94 – “Ye had yer chace at Sunningdale and ye blew it.”

    Thanks boss! Obviously in your world, things can’t change. A more mature SDLP can make up its own mind.

  • “An amendment would be made to the 1998 Act on appointment of Ministers in the Executive. The Nominating Officer of the largest party in the [i]largest designation[/i] in the Assembly shall make a nomination to the Assembly Presiding Officer for the post of First Minister… Where a vacancy arose later in the office of the FM or DFM, the nominating officer(s) of the party(ies) entitled to nominate as above for the office(s) would do so and the nominee would take up office once he had taken the pledge of office.”

    Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. It seems that SF’s great negotiating skills in St. Andrews may well exclude them from the position of First Minister anyway.

  • Paul

    Well, I always admired Trimble, &
    Posted by JoeBryce on Jan 11, 2010 @ 07:56 AM

    you speak for yourself

  • Dewi

    1967 – have things not moved on since? Trimble seems to think so – shouldn’t he know?

  • Rory Carr

    What a silly, annoying little manikin this Paul fellow is as his ridiculous little, pipsqueaking response to Joe Bryce’s quite reasonable comments show.

    With a bit of luck he’ll just melt away and disappear with the coming thaw.

  • Dewi,

    I am not aware of any changes to the St. Andrews Agreement but that is not to say they haven’t escaped my notice. Anyone else got info?

  • Blair

    “11.so empey will serve marty, excellent news for the DUP –

    Posted by Harry J on Jan 11, 2010 @ 02:30 AM”

    Harry,

    You hit the nail firmly on the head. This is excellent news for the DUP. We can be sure that they will use it to remind the unionist electorate that they face having OC Ireland as their FM iif they do not vote DUP.

    The TUV are a one man band who attract only the lunatic fringe. Allister polled well in Europe, but that was a protest vote caused by the Chuckle Brothers thing.

  • Dewi

    “Election
    The First Minister elected by the Assembly on a joint ticket with the deputy First Minister. Their joint nomination has to obtain an overall majority in the Assembly along with a majority of both designated Nationalist MLAs and designated Unionist MLAs. The First Minister will be from the biggest designation in the Assembly and the deputy First Minister from the other designation. Designated Other MLAs also vote.

    This diarchy was created to enable the leaders of the main unionist and nationalist parties to work together as a team jointly representing both communities.

    Following the St Andrews Agreement, this was changed so that the Leader of the largest party nominated the First Minister, and the leader of the next largest party that is in the opposite designation nominated the deputy First Minister.”

    That’s from Wiki 1967

  • Neil

    What a silly, annoying little manikin this Paul fellow is as his ridiculous little, pipsqueaking response to Joe Bryce’s quite reasonable comments show.

    With a bit of luck he’ll just melt away and disappear with the coming thaw.

    Amen to that Rory. The single transferrable post is getting on my titties.

    Paul,

    you speak for yourself

    Well, duh. We all do that thanks. I didn’t see Joe Bryce suggesting he spoke for anyone else. We get the idea, you’re a DUP voter, well done. Other people are entitled to voice opinions contrary to your own, something a small percentage of DUPes can’t seem to get their head around – you are not judge and jury, you cannot determine the guilt or innocence of anyone. As Iris Robbo is all too aware, judging people hasn’t always worked out too well for DUPes.