“He is not going to surrender himself up here (Northern Ireland) at the moment”

The Irish News has an exclusive interview with Liam Adams’ solicitor behind its paywall, but the details are repeated in other reports. And as the police prepare a European Arrest Warrant it’s worth noting that Liam Adams “gave no permanent address” to Garda in Sligo. From the Irish Times report

Mr Adams walked into a police station in Sligo in the on Monday afternoon where he was interviewed. He was later released because the proper arrest warrant had not been prepared and served. It was the first time in more than a year that his whereabouts were known to the authorities on both sides of the border after he failed to turn up for a court appearance in November last year. Mr Breen said he “can’t see how Liam will ever get a fair trial in this jurisdiction (Northern Ireland) because of what has been said in the media”.

He said his client had only been contacted once, in February 2007, by police investigating the allegations.

He told the Belfast-based Irish News : “These allegations came to light in 1987, according to what we had been told by police during his arrest.

We were told by police that the alleged injured party didn’t wish to proceed but she wished to have Mr Adams spoken to by police.

“At absolutely no time up until 2007 (when Ms Tyrell decided to proceed with the complaint) did police speak to Mr Adams. In 2007 police called to a residence and left a police card for Mr Adams to contact them.

“He immediately contacted them and went voluntarily to the police station in my company. Throughout a series of interviews he strenuously denied the allegations.”

Mr Adams, he said, was interviewed three times on February 15th, 2007 at Grosvenor Road police station in west Belfast before being released by police pending a report to the PPS.

Prosecution papers were issued in March the following year but were never served as Mr Adams could not be located.

Mr Breen said he had no information about his client’s whereabouts during that time. He had not seen him since February 2007, but received a call on Monday night from “a family member” asking for representation for Mr Adams who had, by that stage, already handed himself in to police in Sligo.

The solicitor was also contacted last week by another of Liam Adams’s daughters who asked him to lodge a complaint with the Police Ombudsman after she claimed officers “forced their way into her house under a warrant” to look for her father two days after Áine waived to right to anonymity to level the accusations.

And here’s a snippet from another Irish Times report

Eileen Calder, head of the Northern Ireland Rape Crisis and Sexual Abuse Centre, said yesterday that Áine Kerr (her married name) and her mother told her they were effectively “ostracised” from members of the Adams family over attempts to make Liam Adams accountable for his alleged crimes. She said she did not find Gerry Adams’s comments on the matter credible.

There are other questions about his version of events.

, , , , , ,

  • Only Asking

    From the Irish news. click on the image to enlarge

  • ranger1640

    What name did Adams use in the Sligo boarding house, something O’Hara???

  • seamusmor

    Was all this a carefully contrived circus. Gerry says he’s guilty,so brother paedophile can say he wont get a fair trial. Liam flees South.He can be tried in the South for a crime committed in the North,(it is possible) where a more sympathetic jury would acquit him. No danger the dissident republicans would get their hands on him and dish out the type of treatment the provos used do-torture, water submerging,under tender care of stakeknife,and finally the plastic bag over the head to contain skull fragments and brain matter from spilling on assassins clothes when the head got a bullet

  • Only Asking

    Adams told two chief constables about the abuse and has written about some reactions to the issue on his blog.

  • Paul

    This scandal is just horrific it just gets worse.I repeat I smell a cover up Gerry Adams accounts simply dosnt add up there no doubt there will be more to come out and more questions to answer.

  • lorraine

    sligo is the home town of a certain rte journalist who in 2004 or 2005 was censured by the irish daily star for commiserating with a paedophile priest at the trial of the priest. the journalist went on to conduct an exclusive with gerry adams re paedophilia.

    coincidence?

  • John O’Connell

    There is clearly an overlap between criminal republican mindsets and republicanism. In fact I would safely say that republicanism is a criminal enterprise in large part.

  • cynic

    In what acpacity dio Gerry go to the two Chief Constables? As the local MP? To press this on behalf of his niece (after all he’s on her side in this isn’t he? To make enquiries on behalf of Liam? And if it wasn’t any of these quasi-official reasons what business was it of his?

    I hope that both of them politeley told him to keep his nose out for fear that he might be seen to be undermining their independence and interfering in a criminal investigation.

  • cynic

    “they were effectively “ostracised” from members of the Adams family”

    So they have been ostracised for exposing this but Gerry isn’t for accusing his Da of being a predatory paedophile and child abuser?

  • Paul

    I have said it before Gerry Adams position is untenable.If he had any shred of dencency he ADAMS would resign his position with immediate effect.

  • Only Asking

    What name did Adams use in the Sligo boarding house, something O’Hara???

    Eamonn.

  • al

    I’m sorry but it’s almost 2010 not 1973 a fair trial is exactly what he would get up North. If anything the media hype around this will make sure the trial is conducted properly. As I’ve said if he has done nothing wrong then why is he not trying to clear his name?

  • iluvni

    Must be reassuring for the people of Sligo that a suspected paedophile can walk fron a Garda station without leaving a permanent address.

  • tacapall

    In what acpacity dio Gerry go to the two Chief Constables? As the local MP? To press this on behalf of his niece (after all he’s on her side in this isn’t he? To make enquiries on behalf of Liam? And if it wasn’t any of these quasi-official reasons what business was it of his?

    I hope that both of them politeley told him to keep his nose out for fear that he might be seen to be undermining their independence and interfering in a criminal investigation.

    Whats all the media frenzy and the main focus of the accusations about what Gerry Adams did or did not do then if thats what you believe. You cant have it both ways keep his nose out of it and then castigate him for not doing enough.

    Liam Adams pleading not guilty in an Irish Court is better for this case, that way witnesses have to be called, although terrible for Aine is nevertheless going to force the truth out, if the police and social services knew and did not act for their own selfish purposes. The truth will be found in an Irish court rather than a British one.
    It is unbelievable that accusations of child abuse labled against the brother of the leader of the republican movement at that time, when the conflict was ongoing, that police did not try to use this.

  • seamusmor

    Amazing how the RUC/Security forces did not use this against Gerry Adams.It would have been done in the south, Garda did it against Emmet Stagg TD ( brother of hunger striker Frank Stagg) when he was found with a rent boy in the phoenix park. On the other hand did the security forces use it to blackmail Gerry – look at all the informers that were in the IRA/SF for God’s sake. You never know ?

  • Only Asking

    The family’s openness is welcomed.

  • Only Asking

    In his 1995 comments SF says Gerry Adams did not call on people not to report sexual abuse.

  • Paul

    Oh gawd lol the sinners/trolls/spinners still at it trying in vain with there spinning acts trying to get gerry adams off the hook.Well boys you have failed miserably Adams accounts simply dosnt add up theres questions to be answered wether you. like it or not.

  • Seamus

    And the cancer spreads.

  • Here’s an earlier comment from Eileen Calder reported by Suzanne Breen:

    It was the gang rape of a young woman. The perpetrators’ families were associated with the Provisional IRA and CRJ. Known IRA men were seen cleaning up the scene. These people did their utmost to prevent this young woman reporting the crime to police … at worst, they’ve threatened women and attempted to cover up crimes committed by those with IRA, Sinn Fein or CRJ connections. Allowing such people power is like letting the lunatics run the asylum.

  • Only Asking

    In one case, a man was locked in a van with three savage dogs and torn to pieces. In another, a rapist was crucified by being nailed to a fence beside a busy road. Homes of suspected nonces were petrol-bombed by mobs.
    Yet the occupant of one terrace house remained unmolested, even though many people – police, social workers, politicians and locals – had heard dreadful gossip about what happened behind his front door.
    There was a simple reason this man was not attacked: a huge poster of Gerry Adams, the public face of the IRA, hung from his front window.
    And to make sure there was no confusion, the man would greet callers by asking: ‘Do you know who my brother is?’
    For the occupant was Liam Adams, little brother of Gerry, kingpin of the organisation and a man who reached worldwide prominence when Margaret Thatcher ordered that his voice could not be broadcast in order to prevent the IRA benefiting from the ‘oxygen of publicity’

    continues:

    Yet his position as an MP is now under threat amid a welter of new allegations exposing him as a liar.
    In a damning new book to be published about the secret life of Gerry Adams, there will be revelations about his role in the case of The Disappeared – an infamous case involving the IRA murder of a dozen civilians.
    This will finally nail the lie of Adams’s denial of his involvement with the IRA, not to mention revealing the existence of secret tapes about his involvement in the killing of Jean McConville, a mother of ten suspected of being an informer.
    With his brother facing arrest and his niece pouring scorn on him, the past is at last coming back to haunt Adams.
    The question is now whether his lies and special pleading will be enough to save him from political destruction.

    here

    I’d still much rather if Adams was to go for lies etc that he went over the book, or what he did himself, rather than mishandling of a family situation about which there is confusion in the public domain. He does have to go sooner or later, no one is immortal, but for him to go over this is akin to Al Capone getting nabbed over tax evasion.

  • Paul

    #

    And the cancer spreads.
    Posted by Seamus on Dec 24, 2009 @ 03:17 PM

    Its trully sickening Gerry adams and sinn finn are up to there necks in it.

  • Seamus

    Amazing how the RUC/Security forces did not use this against Gerry Adams.It would have been done in the south, Garda did it against Emmet Stagg TD ( brother of hunger striker Frank Stagg) when he was found with a rent boy in the phoenix park. On the other hand did the security forces use it to blackmail Gerry – look at all the informers that were in the IRA/SF for God’s sake. You never know ?

    Posted by seamusmor on Dec 24, 2009 @ 02:26 PM

    Funny too how 2 informers sharing the same surname with Gerry were ordered out of the country for A PERIOD whilst all others exposed before and after them were executed.
    Different strokes for different folks and not just in child molestation issues.

  • Seamus

    I have said it before Gerry Adams position is untenable.If he had any shred of dencency he ADAMS would resign his position with immediate effect.

    Posted by Paul on Dec 24, 2009 @ 12:57 PM

    Paul the leadership has that much dirt on one and other, they just can`t tell him to go and save the party all the embarrassment.
    Afterall how many times have we heard gerry and martin say the party is more important than any individual.(except gerry and martin).

  • Only Asking

    But the different strokes for different folks question cannot be answered in this case, because there is NO evidence that child abuse was covered up within an inner circle of SF elite in West Belfast, which is what one may call a paedophile ring if they are honest. That is the position of many in the media, and it is simply out on a limb. West Belfast people may have been tolerant of ‘different strokes for different folks’ nothing much they could do about it really, but a paedo ring involving children? I don’t think that would have been tolerated, that would have leaked out before now, whether or not Adams handled or mishandled this family situation.

  • Paul

    Paul the leadership has that much dirt on one and other, they just can`t tell him to go and save the party all the embarrassment.
    Afterall how many times have we heard gerry and martin say the party is more important than any individual.(except gerry and martin).
    Posted by Seamus on Dec 24, 2009 @ 03:44 PM

    I agree seamus I also want to know who else within Adams Sinn fein inner circle has dirt on there hands.

  • Seamus

    Yet his position as an MP is now under threat amid a welter of new allegations exposing him as a liar.
    In a damning new book to be published about the secret life of Gerry Adams, there will be revelations about his role in the case of The Disappeared – an infamous case involving the IRA murder of a dozen civilians.
    This will finally nail the lie of Adams’s denial of his involvement with the IRA, not to mention revealing the existence of secret tapes about his involvement in the killing of Jean McConville, a mother of ten suspected of being an informer.
    With his brother facing arrest and his niece pouring scorn on him, the past is at last coming back to haunt Adams.
    The question is now whether his lies and special pleading will be enough to save him from political destruction.

    Now we know why gerry has been pumping so hard for us all to stop looking back , just look to the future, we have got you`s this far through our courage and vision.
    Finally many republicans who have remained with SF will acept gerry and martin for what they are, compulsive liars in every aspect of their lives private and political.
    Soon we shall be able to ask questions on many other issues as well.
    Time for truth whatever it may be.

  • Seamus

    We only have to look at so many complex issues that have been suppressed at will by this leadership.
    The Corry family are a great example, have they held fire for so long through fear perhaps.
    Who can blame them if so, others have dissappeared for saying less about adams and his cronies who are`nt exactly flocking round to back him up on this one, as its gone beyond their peramiter of intervention so swiftly.
    We can only hope that many others will now get justice that they have been denied through the word of the bearded one.

  • IRIA

    In “Killing Rage”, Eamon Collins gives an account of a suspected rape by a somewhat high ranking opeartor in S. Armagh. The woman was believed and the alleged perpetrator was exiled to the Republic. There was consternation b/c the guy was good at his “job”, but what he did was unforgivable. *

    *Working off memory off the book.

  • We’re looking now at a trial in the south, cross examination of Aine and her credibility being the main target of the defence strategy, and a possible acquittal of a man Gerry says is a rapist.

    This will drag out and be very unseemly.

    And, though once he is charged, sub judice may prevent open discussion in the media of Gerry’s motives in handling the case so strangely, it will allow journalists plenty of time to do their research and have the big story ready for the day of the result.

    Sinn Fein, in the mean time, wants us to be talking about the devolution of policing and justice as a general election looms. Some chance!
    Gerry’s family concerns now conflict directly with the interests of the party.
    In any normal party he would go – if he doesn’t go, it will signal that it is not a normal party – and that could be as damaging.

  • Only Asking

    In any normal party he would go – if he doesn’t go, it will signal that it is not a normal party – and that could be as damaging.

    And if he does go it would be an admission of guilt for what exactly? This has to be fought, due to the allegations of a cover up, for I don’t believe that something like a paedophile ring exsisted. All the IRA’s internal goings on came out, if this were in exsistence it would have come out to before now.

    NO, I’d prefer him to stay until the book comes out. If he goes now the revelations in the book amount to nothing much, if he stays its a different story.

  • Although I wont deny a certain satisfaction at the mounting difficulties for Adams I feel deeply uncomfortable at the political point scoring and the media feeding frenzy which seeks to exploit this tragic case. Slugger and the press should move on and allow the law to take its course.

  • alan56

    If SF are a normal political party then surely its only a matter of time before MMcG has a word in Gerry’s ear. Testing times for the DUP/SF led coalition. Wonder what a new Justice Minister would make of all this?

  • I haven’t heard the allegation that there was a paedophile ring inside the IRA, but the significance of this story is that it reveals how the IRA was a burden on the community. It forbade people to report misdeeds by their members to the police. This threat extended to ordinary citizens and not just to members of the IRA. That protected a culture in which violent people were protected when their violence extended outside the parameters of the ocnflict. Indeed, in the end most IRA energy went into policing the community from which secrecy was demanded.

    Why did Gerry not take Aine to Andersonstown police station and help her report the rapes? Because he was an IRA leader who was at war with the police. Simple. The very essence and character of the IRA was the denial of the right of the police to enter republican areas to investigate crime. We know this.
    Gerry wanted this resolved in Culturlann, not in Court. That’s cover up.

  • I haven’t heard the allegation that there was a paedophile ring inside the IRA, but the significance of this story is that it reveals how the IRA was a burden on the community. It forbade people to report misdeeds by their members to the police. This threat extended to ordinary citizens and not just to members of the IRA. That protected a culture in which violent people were protected when their violence extended outside the parameters of the ocnflict. Indeed, in the end most IRA energy went into policing the community from which secrecy was demanded.

    Why did Gerry not take Aine to Andersonstown police station and help her report the rapes? Because he was an IRA leader who was at war with the police. Simple. The very essence and character of the IRA was the denial of the right of the police to enter republican areas to investigate crime. We know this.
    Gerry wanted this resolved in Culturlann, not in Court. That’s cover up.

  • Paul

    The fact of the matter is this Adams and sinn fein are up to there necks in it.I think others within sinn fein will go down with Adams will take them down with him.

  • Only Asking

    I haven’t heard the allegation that there was a paedophile ring inside the IRA,

    That is what your allegation amounts to.

    but the significance of this story is that it reveals how the IRA was a burden on the community.

    No it doesn’t, people reported lots of crimes to the police in these areas all during the conflict. If your home was burglarized there could be no compensation claim without reporting it to the police, if you lived in a H.E. home and had your windows broken it had to be reported to police before they fixed it, If you lived in private homes and structural damage was caused to your home it had to be reported. If your car was stolen it had to be reported, and no one on God’s earth would stop a parent from going to police if someone did vile stuff like this to their children, no matter who it was. That people sought out other avenues to get justice was not only due to the IRA offering swifter punishment, it was due to the fact that the police would not come into republican heartlands, even yet their response times are appalling.

    Yes the IRA were a burden on the back of communities all accross the north, but they also had support otherwise they could not have survived, so someone would need to explain that.

    Your whole emphasis is on the dark underbelly of sexual motives within the IRA,within an inner circle – your position clearly amounts to a logical conclusion that paedophilia went on within the higher echelons of SF/IRA in West Belfast and a blind eye was turned to it.

    That protected a culture in which violent people were protected when their violence extended outside the parameters of the ocnflict. Indeed, in the end most IRA energy went into policing the community from which secrecy was demanded.

    From ’72 onward where were the police, we must have had one of the biggest police forces in western Europe, and armed to boot,why didn’t they police? Why aren’t they policing now, why did it taken Patten to at least try and get them to act even handedly?

    Gerry wanted this resolved in Culturlann, not in Court. That’s cover up

    Gerry didn’t get it resolved in An Culturlann, no cover up, becaue the mother and daughter went to the police and social services when the child was 14, so explain that? Again and again you over look a persons free will in all of this. You consistently politicise a sensitive matter between a family and the authorities, by extending it on to a whole movement within the west of this city.

  • alan56

    Only asking.
    Do you think that GA acted properly in all this? What makes this political is that he is the leader of a major party of government in N.Ireland and therefore people want to know if he did the right thing.

  • cynic

    “Gerry didn’t get it resolved in An Culturlann, no cover up, because the mother and daughter went to the police and social services when the child was 14, so explain that?”

    Well, Only Asking, her’s a few more things to ask:

    Ask why, at that stage they decided that they could not go ahead with the prosecution. After all, we assume that they had the full support of Gerry and the movement and that there would have been no ‘consequences’ arising from doing so.

    And ask why the suspect was allowed to continue as a member of the movement and fitted up with various wee jobs when he returned to NI (until the allegations resurfaced because the victim was appealed to find him working with children). Then we understand he was moved parish down south again.

    Was a Bishop advising SF on their handling strategy?

    And these allegations are not just a “a sensitive matter between a family and the authorities”. They are allegations of perhaps the most heinous crime short of murder and committed against a child.

  • Only Asking

    Do you think that GA acted properly in all this?

    No,he didn’t, but admits that himself.

    cynic,

    Ask why, at that stage they decided that they could not go ahead with the prosecution.

    Ask them yourself, but some of it was covered on the utv programme.

    After all, we assume that they had the full support of Gerry and the movement and that there would have been no ‘consequences’ arising from doing so.

    You assume? Assumptions aren’t facts.

    And ask why the suspect was allowed to continue as a member of the movement and fitted up with various wee jobs when he returned to NI (until the allegations resurfaced because the victim was appealed to find him working with children). Then we understand he was moved parish down south again.

    Who ‘fitted him up with jobs’? According to the places he worked he was subjected to vetting procedures like anyoneelse,they have the proof, so?

    until the allegations resurfaced because the victim was appealed to find him working with children).

    Not according to the utv programme. Watch it and see.

    Was a Bishop advising SF on their handling strategy?

    Bishop?

    And these allegations are not just a “a sensitive matter between a family and the authorities”. They are allegations of perhaps the most heinous crime short of murder and committed against a child.

    Yes child abuse is heinous, but essentially it is up to that family to take the allegations to the police, up to social services to inform police and do what ever it is that is involved. And up to the victim whether or not they suspend the investigation.

    Go read and catch up.

  • Kathy C

    posted by Kathleen Collins

    Of course he isn’t going to give himself up to the authorities of Northern Ireland….if he did…wow he would be arrested for sexually abusing and raping his daughter.

    Does anyone know…is their a law in Northern Ireland about abeting a sex offender? Because maybe if there is…Gerry Adams could be arrested for that.

  • tacapall

    Aine withdrew her statements why ? Not because she was intimated by Gerry Adams or the republican movement, but because the RUC tried to turn her into a tout. Liam Adams therefore had no case to answer, then it was “a sensitive matter between a family and the authorities” through no fault of Gerry Adams

  • Paul

    Go read and catch up.
    Posted by Only Asking on Dec 24, 2009 @ 07:06 PM

    YES I suggest you yourself ought to go and catch yourself on and stop your pathatic spinning this scandal will i predict will also be on a much wider scale and the fact Gerry Adams hasnt the decency to resign his position as sinn fein leader says it all.Adams is a political and public representative he simply does not have any moral authority to stay in his position.His accounts simply dont add up and his credibility is in TATTERS

  • lorraine

    Who ‘fitted him up with jobs’? According to the places he worked he was subjected to vetting procedures like anyoneelse,they have the proof, so?
    only asking

    true, the paperwork is there to signal legitimacy in the application process: but are they forgeries? who wwere the referees?

  • Panic, these ones like it up em.

    tacapall said

    “20.Aine withdrew her statements why ? Not because she was intimated by Gerry Adams or the republican movement, but because the RUC tried to turn her into a tout. Liam Adams therefore had no case to answer, then it was “a sensitive matter between a family and the authorities” through no fault of Gerry Adams”

    The police of the failed state do not come up smelling of roses out of this do they ?

  • It is reassuring that the main Unionist parties have shown restraint on this issue and will seek to fight their battles with SF within the political domain.

    Slugger needs to return to what it does best in encouraging political debate rather than offering a forum for tabloidesque rumour mongering for those over-excited at the prospect of damaging Adams and SF and more worringly – possibly damaging the prospects of this case being dealt with properly.

  • Seamus

    Unionist parties only have to sit back and rub their hands, cause every time gerry opens that big mouth he further contradicts himself.
    And there we all were actually thinking he was intelligent.
    Its such a pity he could`nt have some one in whitehall write a statement on this one for him just as Johnathon wrote the one for him and martins surrender.

  • seamusmor

    Liam ASdams could really answer the case by going back to NI. He is just hjoping there may be some reason he cannot be extrtadicted. After all that was an old game with IRA, bolt hole south, and dont face the music. This is all about facing face and saving Gerry

  • Seamus

    For all the talk of a court case etc, no chance.
    From here on in every morning i wake i will be expecting to hear on the radio that the remains of a man have been found and fowl play is not suspected. Through what ever means gerry will become evermore the victim once again who should be given time to mourn etc etc etc.
    Sure the pressure was just too much on our Liam.
    Before we know it gerry will be saying thats why we were keeping it a family secret ,we knew our poor liam wouldn`t be able to handle it.

  • joeCanuck

    Fowl play? Christmas turkey?

    Being serious, the sight of some people salivating over someone else’s misfortune is very tacky.

  • Seamus

    Joe
    No where as near tacky as pedophilia LOL

  • Pete Baker

    “Aine withdrew her statements why ? Not because she was intimated by Gerry Adams or the republican movement, but because the RUC tried to turn her into a tout.”

    tacapall

    Pure fiction.

    Watch the UTV Insight programme again.

    As for Aine’s mother’s concerns about the questions being asked of her.

    Where there are allegations of a child being abused, it doesn’t seem unreasonable to ask who else is going into the house.

  • Alias

    “We’re looking now at a trial in the south…” – Malachi

    Not the case for EU member states. Section 38 of the Extradition Act 1965 applied to EU member states prior to the European Arrest Warrant Act 2003 but it now only applies to non-EU states:

    [i]Where any citizen of Ireland does any act outside the State which constitutes an offence for which he would be liable to extradition but for the fact that he is a citizen of Ireland he shall be guilty of the like offence and be liable on conviction to the like punishment as if the act were done within the State.[/i]

    That allowed the Irish courts extra-territorial jurisdiction for offences committed by Irish nationals in another jurisdiction, allowing them to be prosecuted within the this state for an offence committed outside of it.

    Under Chapter 1 (10) of the European Arrest Warrant Act 2003, the Irish state has an obligation to surrender any Irish national to another EU member state:

    [i]10.— Where a judicial authority in an issuing state duly issues a European arrest warrant in respect of a person—

    (a) against whom that state intends to bring proceedings for the offence to which the European arrest warrant relates, or

    (b) on whom a sentence of imprisonment or detention has been imposed and who fled from the issuing state before he or she—

    (i) commenced serving that sentence, or

    (ii) completed serving that sentence,

    that person shall, subject to and in accordance with the provisions of this Act and the Framework Decision be arrested and surrendered to the issuing state.[/i]

    That means that if the UK seeks the extradition of Liam Adams to Northern Ireland then the Irish state must surrender him to the authorities within that jurisdiction. It is no longer within the sovereign power to refuse to extradite him or to prosecute him within this state instead. Assuming, of course, that Liam Adams is an Irish national and was an Irish national at the time when the offence was allegedly committed.

    So the extradition of Liam Adams is at the sole discretion of the UK. Why would they stop the extradition proceedings that they have commenced? Indeed, have they actually commenced them? The Irish police seem to be missing one European arrest warrant.

    I’d be extremely surprised if the UK allowed Liam Adams to be prosecuted in this state or if the Irish state suggested it. As the British police attempted to use the alleged rape of a child as an opportunity to recruit that child’s mother as a police informer, it is very likely that they also used that alleged rape as an opportunity to recruit the father of the alleged victim as a police informer too. That is consist with their established practice. If the police were more successful in recruiting the father than they were in recruiting the mother, then it is highly unlikely that the British state would risk one of their senior touts being exposed as state-protected paedophile in a foreign court that would have no incentive to protect the security interests of the British state and wherein the British state would have no authority to block witnesses or cancel the trial if rquired to advoid embarassing revelations.

  • Alias

    “If SF are a normal political party then surely its only a matter of time before MMcG has a word in Gerry’s ear.” – alan56

    Is it “normal” for members of political parties to be able to cause other party members to spend considerable amounts of time in prison? They both know too much about the other for either one to get ‘assertive’ with the other.

  • Pete Baker

    Alias

    Notwithstanding the EU position..

    As with other recent cases

    It would appear that Liam Adams will have the option of being tried in Ireland [Republic of] rather than Northern Ireland.

    Apparently, it’s due to the Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Act 1976.

  • Seamus

    Maybe pushing the fact that so few clergy men have been sent to prison for their fowl acts in the 26.

  • Alias

    True, Pete, but the accused only has the option of deciding which jurisdiction he is to be prosecuted in if the relevant prosecuting authority within the jurisdiction where he is alleged to have committed the offence grants him that option.

    Under Chapter 10 the European Arrest Warrant Act 2003, if the UK requests the extradition of Liam Adams then the Irish state has an “obligation to surrender” him to that jurisdiction and no sovereign authority to refuse that request.

    Because it is not Liam Adams’ decision to make, he would need to cite reasons why the Irish state should not extradite him in accordance with its binding duty to do so under the 2003 Act with the Irish courts then deciding if they should grant the extradition request or not, such as Roisin McAliskey cited in a UK court.

    This is the part of the EC’s The Framework Decision that the Belfast court quoted in its decision on in the case of The Federal Public Prosecutor Germany vs. Roisin McAliskey:

    [i]10. On 13 June 2002 the Council of the European Union entered into a Framework Decision addressing the question of extradition and the proposed amendments to the process for the extradition of any person from a signatory to the Treaty. The proposed change arose from a declared “high level of confidence between Member States” as to their criminal law processes, and arising from that confidence a wish to tackle what was in their eyes the unacceptable time taken in the extradition process.

    11. In Recital (5) to the Framework Decision the objective of the decision and the subsequent legislation within Member States was set out in the following terms.

    “(5) The objective set for the Union to become an area of freedom, security and justice leads to abolishing extradition between Member States and replacing it by a system of surrender between judicial authorities….. Traditional co-operation relations which have prevailed up until now between Member States should be replaced by a system of free movement of judicial decisions in criminal matters, covering both pre-sentence and final decisions, within an area of freedom, security and justice.”

    12. In Recital (8) the Decision states:-

    “(8) Decisions on the execution of the European Arrest Warrant must be subject to sufficient controls, which means that a judicial authority of the Member State where the requested person has been arrested will have to take the decision on his or her surrender.”[/i]

  • Alias

    In short: Liam Adams must be surrendered to the UK under the 2003 act unless he can produce a convincing reason why he should not be surrendered. Since the Irish courts would be setting a legal precedent, they will not allow a spurious pretext or a political expedient to interfere with their duty under the Act to process the extradition and facilitate “a system of free movement of judicial decisions in criminal matters, covering both pre-sentence and final decisions, within an area of freedom, security and justice.”

  • Alias,

    “unless he can produce a convincing reason why he should not be surrendered”.

    The southern court will no doubt be invited to evaluate the impact of the assumption of guilt and the more lurid speculations floating around on the numerous Slugger blogs in the media in deciding just how convincing is his suggestion that he wont receive a fair trial if he is extradited.

  • Alias

    Yes, and Liam Adams’ solicitor made some statements to that effect (hinting at fair trial and ill health grounds) but, again, extradition between the UK and Ireland is no longer a political decision so it will be the courts (Recital 8) that have to be convinced of the validity of any objection to surrender, keeping in mind that they have an obligation to process the surrender with the onus being on the accused to prove to the court that he should not be surrendered expeditiously once the paperwork is in order.

    The judiciary is very limited in what objections to the surrender that it can accept (see Article 3 and Article 4 of the Council Framework Decision), i.e. essentially Article 47 and Article 48 of the EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights (corresponding to Article 6(1) of the ECHR).

    As Recital 11 of the (11) Council Framework Decision states: “In relations between Member States, the European arrest warrant should replace all the previous instruments concerning extradition, including the provisions of Title III of the Convention implementing the Schengen Agreement which concern extradition.” That means that if the UK wants him then the UK gets him.

    I suspect that the Irish courts will leave it up to the UK courts to decide whether of not he can get a fair trial in that jurisdiction since Recital 10 declares that “the mechanism of the European arrest warrant is based on a high level of confidence between Member States.”

  • Alias,

    whichever juridsiction decides a review of the Slugger blogs will provide a healthy source of arguement for the defence given the nature of many of the comments and the obvious political inspiration behind many of them in a case where politics is completely irrelevant in deciding guilt or innocence.

  • Alias

    Blogs and other new media don’t count, alas. There are no ‘circulation’ figures. It is comment in the print and broadcast media and from public figures that the court will consider. The leader of the second biggest political party in Northern Ireland, and a party of government within the state, declaring the accused to be guilty of the alleged offence is the comment that will concern the courts the most in determining if it is still possible for the accused to get a fair trial.

  • Alias,

    “Blogs and other new media don’t count, alas”

    Surely that is judgement for the courts to make – precedent has to be made sometime.

  • Alias

    I didn’t say it wasn’t. I said there are “no circulation figures”, i.e. no reliable means to quantify how many members of the general public within the jurisdiction (if any) read the comment and therefore no way for the court to assess what impact the comment would have on the defendant’s absolute right to a fair trial.

  • Alias

    And by the way, as I have pointed out many times in the posts above, the courts cannot set any precedent outside of the narrow parameters specified within of the Council Framework Decision in regard to the European arrest warrant. In case you don’t know what a Framework Decision is, they are unanimous decisions of the Commission that are legally binding on Member States with those states only having discretion in regard to how they transpose the decision into national law. EU law takes precedence over national law here, so a national court cannot set any precedent that conflicts with the parameters of this EU law.

  • granni trixie

    Talk about Republican spin,in this case for an American audience – see report of Adamsgate in the Irish Echo which is interesting for what it omits eg the victims complaint in the UTV programme about how GA dealt with her.
    Sorry that I cannot technically capture this for you all (but worth following up on Google).

  • Alias,

    the precedent would be set in the use of a blog to “produce a convincing reason why he should not be surrendered” – this would be at the court’s discretion and would not conflict with exisiting law either European or National.

    GT,

    The American spin is but the mirror opposite of much of what we have read on Slugger – neither should be given any weight – at least the American stuff has little legal implication for any court proceedings and those of us wishing for the demise of Adams and SF will need to pin our hopes within the political arena.

  • granni trixie

    MU: I would not so easily dismiss the importance to SF of keeping supporters in the USA on board,
    many of whom,conservative Catholics,see ‘the auld country’ through rose tinted specs. Adamsgate stories and those concerning the Catholic church and child abuse, challenges this world view and their support for ‘the cause’. Its still a propaganda war,afterall, so the facts are not so important as the spin.

  • Alias

    Moderate Unionist, that isn’t a legal argument. The defence argument would still be that the defendant cannot get a fair trial as he is entitled to Article 47 of the EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights and under Article 6 (1) of the ECHR and that his right to a presumption of innocence Article 48 of the EU’s Charter of Fundamental Rights and under Article 6 (2) of the ECHR has be breeched by intensive pre-trial adverse publicity and by statements from a senior politician of government within the jurisdiction that are deeply prejudicial to those rights. So there is no precedent to be established there. These are established principles of law based on fundamental human rights.

    The ‘precedent’ that you propose is merely that accepted standards by which the court quantifies the risk to the rights of the accused can be disposed of and replaced with lesser ad hoc standards. The courts will not do that and, indeed, no longer have the sovereignty to do that since EU law sets out specified parameters for surrender of an accused under the Framework Decision with the judicial authority in the jurisdiction where the accused is arrested having an obligation to have faith in the judicial authority within the jurisdiction where the accused is to be prosecuted. Since the jurors will be selected that other jurisdiction, the judicial authority in the surrendering jurisdiction will very likely leave any assessment of said adverse pre-trial publicity to the judicial authority in that jurisdiction. That is consistent with the scope and objectives of the Framework Decision.

    In the UK, for example, the Contempt of Court Act 1981 will apply to publicity in the trial of the accused with its relevant provisions designed to safeguard his rights, so there is no point in the Irish courts applying laws that are not applicable in the relevant jurisdiction even if they could do so. That Act states that the “strict liability rule [i]applies only[/i] to a publication which creates a [b]substantial[/b] risk that the course of justice in the proceedings in question will be seriously impeded or prejudiced.”

    Since the court then has an obligation to quantify that the comment created a “substantial risk” to the rights of the accused, the court will need ‘circulation figures’ for that purpose. The court has no reliable means to quantify whether or not comment on a blog created a substantial risk or any risk at all, so it will look at broadcast and print media in order to make the relevant calculation. Admittedly, the law is behind the times in this area but until a reliable means of quantifying the influence of diverse new media becomes available (probably never), then the courts will not subpoena server records and what-not when these calculations can be made via accepted standards.

    In addition to that, the strict liability rule is to comply with Article 10 of the ECHR covering freedom of speech. This protection is made explicit in Section 5 of the Contempt of Court Act 1981: “A publication made as or as part of a discussion in good faith of public affairs or other matters of general public interest is not to be treated as a contempt of court under the strict liability rule if the risk of impediment or prejudice to particular legal proceedings is merely incidental to the discussion.” So there is virtually no chance of anything said here “as part of a discussion [i]in good faith[/i] of public affairs” doing any harm as long as it stays within the parameters of Section 5 of the Contempt of Court Act 1981.

    The Irish courts are not going to fabricate some fantastical ‘precedent’ about the role of new media in the European arrest warrant procedure. It will be up to the PPS in the first instance to decide if the deeply prejudicial statements from Gerry Adams mean that the accused cannot now get a fair trial. If they decide to proceed with the trial, it will then be up to the Belfast court to decide if the trial should proceed.

    My guess is that the PPS will proceed with the trial as part of an improper politically inflenced decision aimed at protecting someone that the security services want left in place but that the court will not proceed with the trial. If that happens, Gerry Adams will only stay in place if the security services calculate that the outcry from Aine about being denied justice does more damage to the Shinners’ popular support, and theeby to the process of integrating them into the British state, than Gerry is worth.

  • Alias,

    “The Irish courts are not going to fabricate some fantastical ‘precedent’ about the role of new media in the European arrest warrant procedure”

    We will see. I suspect Liam Adams will not be leaving the south and whether that decision is taken North of the border or not the decision will be based on the contamination of public opinion to which Slugger continues to contribute. Geryy Adams’s surivival will depend on Ulster politics and not on the basis of any conspircay theories such as your own ‘fantastical’ offering regarding the security services.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Personally I think Gerry Adams has been more of a hinderance over the past year or two than a help. I suspect that McGuinness resents his interference in executive matters and the handling of devolution of policing and justice powers. I don’t think there’s much space for a conspiracy theory about whether or not the security forces “need” Gerry. That might have been different five years ago.

    I think Adams will come to regret not stepping down while he was on top, at around the same time as Ian Paisley did.

  • Alias

    Stalin, the British security services do need Gerry in place since there is no-one else within northern post-nationalism who has the authority to complete their process of integrating that movement’s supporters into the reformed British state. Even some moderate unionists know that since they are quite keen that no harm should come to wee Gerry – not for the promotion of his supporters’ interests but for the promotion of their own interests (which is what the state-controlled Gerry is actually promoting).