“each of whom we believe is a victim of the Troubles..”

The PA report in the Irish Times tells us that the membership of the Victims Forum, as appointed by the Victims Commission, “will include the bereaved relatives of security force members, republican and loyalist groups, plus civilians caught-up in the conflict”. The BBC list, of all but two of those appointed, reveals that one, and as far as I can tell only one, of the “victims” has a conviction for murder.

Michael Culbert is a former IRA prisoner who was sentenced to 16 years in jail for killing a police officer. His relatives were burned out of their home in Bombay Street off the Falls Road in 1969.

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  • Ulick

    Good man Mickey, I hope you make a better go of that than the Antrim football team.

  • Barnshee

    Doomed exercise– provo frontmen/women v Wulli Frazer and Provo injured ? a recipe for disaster

  • Pigeon Toes

    “plus civilians caught-up in the conflict”

  • Tamney

    A murderer a ‘victim’? This is rotten. rotten, rotten.

  • YelloSmurf

    Tamney, just because he victimised others (and there is no question that he did) it does not necessarily follow that he is not a victim. Willy Frazer said that Michael Culbert wasn’t an innocent victim, but he may be a guilty victim, someone who both victimised and was victimised. I am not refering to his time in prison, but to experiances like the burning of Bombay street.

  • YelloSmurf

    I should probably point out that the guilty victim bits are my words, not Willy Frazer’s

  • Orange-smurf

    He killed a police man and his family had to move? Why is this guy not deputy prime minister?

  • west belfast

    A good representation of our society with regards to those who lost loved ones.

    I know I am the minority view but of course they are all victims – anyone that comes out of their narrow minded comfort zone will see that.

    Tamney – name me one section of those involved in the conflict who didnt murder and I will listen to your arguments – we can all point fingers, it is much more difficult to pint them at your ‘own’.

    I wish them all well in what will be undoubtedly a very difficult task.

  • Tamney

    There is a significant difference between being a member of a group that included people who created victims, or were perceived to have done by others, and being personally responsible for another’s victimhood.

    The mantra that everyone is a victim allows those responsible for victimising others to shrug off their culpability. It’s a short step from that to justifying violence.

    Would the Provo claim that his subsequent murder of another human being was generated by the violence against his family?

    The soldiers who killed on Bloody Sunday or those Provos who planted the Poppy Day bomb can claim to be victims and justify their violent actions by their victimhood.

    If you allow those who individually victimised others to intercede on victims needs you permit a mockery of victims.

    You rob victims of the hope of justice when you permit the personally guilty to ajudicate for them.

  • joeCanuck

    Meanwhile wee jeffrey seems to be picking a list of his believed victims for a trip to Libya.

  • Walt

    Couldn’t be victims joe they were prods and members of the security forces.

    Everyone knows that the only victims were catholics eh?

  • granni trixie

    The focus on “victims and surviviors” who were “invited” onto the Forum has deflected attention on the composition of the 9 “expert” chosen ones.

    It also strikes me that as the VC have been in so much hot water since its/theirs inception that the formation of a Forum such as this is a risk worth taking – what has the Commission to lose?

    Lets give them a fair wind?

  • underwood

    I wish them well. It strikes me as possibly one of the very few sensible ideas to emerge over the years.
    Can’t help thinking though how easily bought Wullie was.

  • William

    I have grave reservations about the make-up of this forum…. it cannot be right to have terrorists, past or present on a body looking at victims….
    [see commenting policy – edited moderator]

  • Scaramoosh

    We may not all be victims, but we are all stuck in the moment, and we can’t get out of it.

  • William

    READ THE FOLLOWING IN ORDER TO SEE THE DISPARITY IN POLICY….A COMMENT THAT CASTS DOUBT ON THE CHARACTER OF WILLIE FRAZER IS O.K [No. 13], WHILST AT 14, MY LEGITIMATE COMMENT MENTIONING NO ONE BY NAME IS ‘MODERATED’…ALL I SAID WAS 100% TRUE….NO ONE WAS IN THE PROVOS / NOR WOULD GET A JOB WITH ONE OR OTHER OF THEIR CURRENT FRONT ORGANISATIONS, IF THEY HADN’T TAKEN PART IN THE SINN FEIN / IRA’S DIRTY WAR IN SOME ILLEGAL CAPACITY.

    13.I wish them well. It strikes me as possibly one of the very few sensible ideas to emerge over the years.
    Can’t help thinking though how easily bought Wullie was.

    Posted by underwood on Sep 04, 2009 @ 07:09 PM
    14.I have grave reservations about the make-up of this forum…. it cannot be right to have terrorists, past or present on a body looking at victims….
    [see commenting policy – edited moderator]

    Posted by William on Sep 04, 2009 @ 08:17 PM

  • YelloSmurf

    There is no suggestion that EVERYONE is a victim, nor that everyone’s victim hood is equal. In the same way, no one is asking anyone to say that Michael Culbert was innocent.

    West Belfast, I think you’re overstating it by claiming that EVERY group murdered. Are you trying to tell me that members of the Alliance Party, for example, murdered people. At the same time, I agree that many people need to take the logs out of thier eyes.

  • Freddie

    If it true to say ” there is no suggestion …. that everyone’s victimhood is equal”. it follows that there is a hierarchy of victims and also a hierarchy of perpetrators’ culpability.

  • Squig

    Wonder if weeping Willie thinks that Mickey Culbert “should’nt have been there in the first place?”

  • leader of the pack

    Willie had a lot of time for Culbert – he called a spade a spade

  • Mike

    By what stretch of the imagination is Michael Culbert a victim?

    He is a perpetrator – the polar opposite of a victim.