“For me, this totally clinched the case that this was an impact”

Nasa’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory [JPL] has launched a new website, “a centralized resource for information on near-Earth objects” – Asteroid Watch. One of the topics there is the new Great Black Spot [of Jupiter] and senior research scientist at JPL, Glenn Orton, has the lowdown on observing Jupiter’s black eye after it was first spotted by amateur astronomer Anthony Wesley.

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  • Oh my God!

    Pete, why no mention of the P&J ‘breakthrough’ allegedly made today?

    Does it not suit your agenda or is the lure of your telescope just too much to resist?

  • Pete Baker

    A BBC report following the Executive meeting is noted in an update to the relevant post.

    Now, back to the topic.

  • Oh my God!

    Haha! Give us a break, Pete. Go away and whitewash your telescope.

  • joeCanuck

    Oh my god:

    Any chance you could provide us with a list of all the names you post under?
    Once a troll always a troll I guess.

  • Oh my God!

    Hi joe, apparently I should be taking lessons from an individual who, likewise, posts using a pseudonym? Also, I’m not aware of any law prohibiting individuals from contributing when using different names. If it is not unlawful, is it immoral? Or is it merely a personal dislike? Does it undermine or delegitimise the contribution made by such an individual? Or do I smell a smokescreen? Exactly what is your point?

  • The Raven

    “Sure this inter-galactic stuff is pish. It’s dead boring and is only covering Pete’s hidden agenda. Etc etc etc”.

    Here, mate, what ever your name is, this is one of those threads that I actually enjoy and tends to be free of general slaggery, bigotry and hidden agendas. Unless some of us are hiding big planet-cracking asteroids from you until it’s too late.

    Please leave the astronomy threads alone, unless you have something relevant to post…?

  • joeCanuck

    OMG,

    Whatever. My name is real.

  • Oh my God!

    Loft that straw man as high in the sky as you can fly, raven. Baker has explicitly stated his right to sardonically mock and belittle Adams. Therefore, it’s only fair that, in the interests of inclusivity and proportionality, someone doesleace likewise to old telescope boy.

    Pete blatantly has information that Gerry Adams has a holiday home on Jupiter but can’t report it due to some sort of legal privacy restrictions.

  • Oh my God!

    [i]Whatever.[/i]

    Excellent comeback.

    [i] My name is real.[/i]

    Canuck is a surname? My God, I honestly didn’t know that. Next you’ll be telling me that you live in Canada. Sorry, what’s that? You do?! No way! Oh my God, that’s unbelievable. What are the odds?

  • joeCanuck

    Check my email. Even email me if you want.

  • Pete Baker

    OMG

    “Baker has explicitly stated his right to sardonically mock and belittle Adams.”

    I have?

    No doubt you can back that claim up with a quote [and, preferably, a link].

    In the meantime, here’s AC Grayling on the hope of reasonable discussion.

    In debates that crucially affect the wellbeing of the world, ideas and beliefs should be open to tough challenge and hard discussion. Let someone state a view, and let the view be subjected to rigorous scrutiny, no holds barred, and no pleas of offence, hurt feelings, self-proclaimed sensitivities, “sacredness” or any other excuse allowed to stand in the way. But with a strictly governed exception, namely, an office-holder speaking ex-officio, let no individual be the target of attack, and even then neither abuse nor ad hominem attack.

    There is no excuse for ill manners and insults, though of course there is an explanation: usually, the impotence and weakness of the insulter and his or her case. Insult an idea or an institution, by all means, if you have serious grounds to do so; but not individuals: that is the bottom line.

  • wild turkey

    Raven @ post 6

    Right on the money. As Pete and Slugger readers know, my kids and I enjoy Petes space/astronomy and science posts.

    Funnily enough, they have also been to the zoo and and on one occassion have seen how disenchanted and dysfunctional chimps pleasure themselves… and my daughter shouted ‘Oh my god’

    ‘Go away and whitewash your telescope. ‘
    uh, the point being???

    Pete may use a telescope at night, but now we know at least someone whose viewpoint is merely limited to where the sun don’t shine. now thats exciting

    I had always understood that nothing can escape or transmit from the event horizon of a black hole. It appears OMG has defied quantum physics while failing to break the tedium barrier

  • The Raven

    Turkey, I couldn’t have put it better myself! (marks the post on delicious.com for future reference!)

  • McGrath

    “after it was first spotted by amateur astronomer Anthony Wesley”

    Which underscores the advancements in amateur astronomy (1) that he saw it using fairly inexpensive equipment that was out of reach to all but the likes of the JPL a few years ago (2) That he was able to discuss it and verify it with other amateur peers on a blog / message board (3) News like this would have been months in the making a few years ago, or the event would have been completely missed for a significant time.

    If nothing more, Petes astronomy posts show the abundance of information that is out there and its ease of access, aspects that where not available a short time ago and begs questions about the shape and form of information to come in the near future.

    Petes astronomy posts also show another aspect of Northern Ireland, this one shows some people who are so pig ignorant that they cant let others live their lives.

  • Driftwood

    wild turkey
    So we have Leonard Cohen and astronomy in common?

    I think Greenflag and i had the great 1980 TV series ‘Cosmos’ as well. The late great Carl Sagan putting our ‘troubles’ in context…

    Lookin’ up Carl

  • Oh my God!

    [i]No doubt you can back that claim up with a quote [and, preferably, a link].[/i]

    Certainly:

    http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/dont-write-of-the-old-leaders-just-yet/ – post 9, final sentence.

    http://www.sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/dont-write-of-the-old-leaders-just-yet/ – the tirade at post 5

    So, are us big thickos [i]now[/i] allowed to laugh at you and make fun of your pseudo-intellectualism too?

  • Pete Baker

    OMG

    Post 9, final sentence

    “And it’s not exultation you detect. As I mentioned previously, the alternative to laughing at the World Tour is to despair.”

    The “tirade” at post 5?

    That’s your evidence that “Baker has explicitly stated his right to sardonically mock and belittle Adams.”?

    AC Grayling on the hope of reasonable discussion, again.

    In debates that crucially affect the wellbeing of the world, ideas and beliefs should be open to tough challenge and hard discussion. Let someone state a view, and let the view be subjected to rigorous scrutiny, no holds barred, and no pleas of offence, hurt feelings, self-proclaimed sensitivities, “sacredness” or any other excuse allowed to stand in the way. But with a strictly governed exception, namely, an office-holder speaking ex-officio, let no individual be the target of attack, and even then neither abuse nor ad hominem attack.

    There is no excuse for ill manners and insults, though of course there is an explanation: usually, the impotence and weakness of the insulter and his or her case. Insult an idea or an institution, by all means, if you have serious grounds to do so; but not individuals: that is the bottom line.

    And back to the topic.

  • Oh my God!

    [i]and even then neither abuse nor [b]ad hominem attack[/b]. [/i]

    You’ve never be guilty of committing such a grave offense, contradictory to the etiquette governing “reasonable discussion” now, would you Pete?

  • latcheeco

    If we all agree to ignore the spacers then everyone on ths thread will be happy.

  • Pete Baker

    Here’s a hint, OMG.

    Critical comment on the World Tour does not constitute an “ad hominem attack” on Adams.

  • Oh my God!

    Here’s a hint, Pete Baker:

    Yeah, the World Tour is nonsense and one could make such an assertion without mocking the person behind it. However, you’re repeated attacks are blatantly ad hominem, inspired by obsession or some acute personal grievance. You don’t like the man, you think he’s a legitimate target of derision. We understand that. But if you have the right to belittle and mock the man, then everybody else has the right to do likewise to you.

    Ends.

  • McGrath

    Post 21 – OMG

    Then take it up under the right thread, should everyone else suffer your festering?

  • Wilde Rover

    It’s good to see part timers keeping an eye on the solar cleaner to make sure it doesn’t miss the bits in the corners.

  • John

    Pete, seriously.. I’m sure this astronomy stuff is very interesting but on a cultural/political blog to do with all things British and Irish, is it really relevant?

    Now, if we were to shoot off Gregory and Nigel on a big rocket towards the sun, I for one would be very interested in reading about it. Otherwise, in my opinion, Slugger is just not the right outlet for it.

    Maybe I’ll start reviewing ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics and artwork….

  • Mick Fealty

    John,

    It’s relevant because Pete has made it so. There’s a intelligent following for his posts on science. For me it comes under the heading of culture.

    It’s not my bag, and normally I don’t comment. But I was intrigued by the longish comment thread. Only to find it’s that long because someone wants to talk about Pete’s criticism Gerry Adams instead of impacts on Jupiter…

    In the next few months we’ll be expanding the site, and its scope… the tag line that has served us for seven years now will go to encourage people to think outside those particular boundaries (in the past people have taken dog’s abuse for writing about the politics of the Republic even)…

    On any blog, the key factor is that the content is driven by the passion of the individual members of the team… Pete’s science posts are part of that collective passion… even if I don’t share that particular passion…

  • sj1

    Pete’s science posts are part of that collective passion… even if I don’t share that particular passion

    How many people do Mick? Like you I was intrigued by the long commentary only to find it wasn’t about the subject.

    that long because someone wants to talk about Pete’s criticism Gerry Adams instead of impacts on Jupiter

    Pete does tend to go for one person at a time, while he has always gone a little for Adams recently he’s gone into overdrive, the way he did with Peter Hain. God knows I’ve no love for Adams, or the shinners, but the knocking is getting a little tedious.

    In the next few months we’ll be expanding the site, and its scope… the tag line that has served us for seven years now will go to encourage people to think outside those particular boundaries (in the past people have taken dog’s abuse for writing about the politics of the Republic even)…

    Thumbs up for thinking outside the boundaries, but those of us who try to already have bookmarked blogs for that purpose, that we’ve been visiting for some time. Will the blogs offer a match for already recognised sites like Iain Dale, guy fawkes labour home etc?

    Lets face it your bloggers have been reared on NI politics, focused on it in depth, will you be offering a viable alternative?

    Good luck with the expansion, but it seems to me you cover Ni very well, it’s your marked territory, its going to be hard to ditch it and break new ground.

    I only come here for NI politics, the British and Irish stuff is well covered else where by other long established blogs…..

    When you down scale NI, won’t you be downsizing your core support?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mick,

    Oh my God’s sunstantive point about Pete not covering braking news on Police and Justice clearly holds and Pete’s attempt to distort what has actually been said/happened by use of hyperlinking to his previous posts has been raised by many before and is illustrated in his latest ‘update’.

    re. “On any blog, the key factor is that the content is driven by the passion of the individual members of the team… Pete’s science posts are part of that collective passion… even if I don’t share that particular passion…”

    Agreed – but space gazing should not be at the expense of the unfolding political developments simply because they do not fit a particular bloggers view of whats happening on Planet Norn Iron, which as mentiond immediately above, is the MAIN reason people use Slugger.

  • Mick Fealty

    sj1,

    I’ve no intention of ditching it (and this is going even further off topic).

    NI will remain the base of our activities, but taking a locally focused and forensic look at what is actually passing in Westminster, Dublin, Edinburgh, Cardiff or Brussels is not the same as resiling to the big names. The better the blogging, the more informed our audience become of the world outside. If we grow into other audiences as we prove a utility there too, then so much the better.

    That said, Dale etc are useful resources rather than rivals. As the blogosphere grows so does the capacity to drill down into more and more information and insight. Slugger began as little other than a navigatory tool… I think it has become rather more than that now…

    As for Pete, well, he’s a terrier. Very useful when powers that be would like you to think one thing is happening when quite another is in train. These guys get paid a huge amount of money to take decisions on our part (as can be seen from the Electoral Commission’s report).

    And it’s right that they do too. But it is also right that there are people like Pete (who get paid zero for their efforts on Slugger) who hold them to account, particularly when they’re serially misleading the public and not being challenged by the MSM.

    That he tells the truth is much more important to me than whether he rubs some up the wrong way.

    I’d like our politicians to tumble to the fact that the unburnished truth will often take them much further in these newly austere times than cunning than misleading PRs ever will…

  • Mick Fealty

    Sammy, you want a job? You can have it. If you smarten up your act. Pete is not the only blogger on Slugger. There are more nationalist or republican blogger on the site than unionists now.

    If you mean the story telling us where the putative offices of the Department of Justice will be when they decide to set it up, then write about it. But what’s there to say other than what might said in an Estate Agent’s brief?

    It’s the silly season Sammy, but there’s no need to play it up for all its worth. That’s nearly as bad as referencing FIFA as an authority on citizenship law.

    Don’t call us… etc, etc…

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mick,

    re. Nationlaists v Unionists bloggers – straw man arguement or what?

    My point above has got nothing to do with the ideological viewpoint of the individual but how they organise and steer the debate/thread, I personally would not be interested in Slugger if it was populated by bloggers/posters who shared my views.

    re. FIFA – remember when reading posts start at the first page.

  • Random Quotes

    So in other words Mick, anything goes. Any post, whether it be space weather or celebrity gossip is all ok for slugger – so long as the blog is one of ‘quality’?

  • Oh my God!

    [i]If you mean the story telling us where the putative offices of the Department of Justice will be when they decide to set it up, then write about it[/i]

    Wise the bap Mick. Yesterday’s story was a bit more significant than that. Your comments are needlessly disingenuous.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Oh my God,

    Pete has now opened a thread on the ‘significant’ story ie not the buidlings one.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mick,

    re. Slugger jobs. Have you considered asking someone like Multi-Bob McCartney to be avaialable to settle legal arguements on Slugger (such as is raging on the other thread on Irish citizenship) -he wouldnt need paying and he’s entertaining enough to add some spice to proceedings.

  • Mick Fealty

    Sammy et al,

    My last of the afternoon on this subject…

    OMG,

    Your contributions have been less than edifying. Say what you mean and I’ll try to reply respectfully.

    RQ,

    It’s my responsibility (as I see it) to maintain the overall balance in the content of the site. But Pete’s carved out a useful niche for himself with these posts… That’s fine with me…

    So far as I am concerned it is now part of the Slugger offering… in stays not matter what the lobby (otherwise known as the Kaboodle http://url.ie/25gt) says about it…

    Sammy,

    I am simply pointing out that Pete is not the only blogger on the site, and he doesn’t have to blog what you want him to. I appreciate your efforts to ‘steer’ us all on P&J, but if it’s considered good enough one of us will pick it up…

    It’s the judgement of my bloggers I have to back over and over, whether I would make the same judgement everytime or not. Not the commenters.

    If you want, I’ll pull you in there. On condition your blogging is of better quality than some of your predictive commentary.

    I did not make the offer to Bob (though it’s a great suggestion to strengthen the team), I made it to you.

    Now, strangely, you’re behaving as though the offer was never made. Is that a refusal? Or what?

  • Oh my God!

    [i]Say what you mean and I’ll try to reply respectfully.[/i]

    You claimed that the only noteworthy story emanating yesterday in relation to policing and justice here in the north involved “where the putative offices of the Department of Justice will be when they decide to set it up”. That’s not true. Pete deliberately ignored the story, minus half a dozen words tagged on at the bottom of a thread posted on Wednesday afternoon, despite the clear revelance of the news to his incessesant ramblings with regard to Adams and PSF. It’s not like he has an agenda now, is it?

    What’s that you say? If I don’t like what he writes then I should just ignore it? What about my right to free speech? And why don’t you give the same advice to Pete? His agenda is clear: he has stated his right to mock and laugh at Adams. Therefore, everyone else has the right to highlight the absurdity of his nonsensical, monotonous ramblings (i.e. those traits which you describe as “terrier”-esque)

  • Mick Fealty

    Laters OMG…

  • Oh my God!

    Well said Mick, you never were one for dodging the issues.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mick,

    you will be shocked and very suprised to hear that I must have mis-read your post.

    Yes, I am keen to join up thanks.

  • sj1

    NI will remain the base of our activities, but taking a locally focused and forensic look at what is actually passing in Westminster, Dublin, Edinburgh, Cardiff or Brussels is not the same as resiling to the big names.

    Well yes it is mick.

    That said, Dale etc are useful resources rather than rivals.

    Nice try, but it doesn’t work like that. What can your bloggers offer that Dale et al can not? You need to offer something, this isn’t school Mick, I don’t come here to be encouraged to think outside the N.Irish box. When I go outside the N.Irish box I go to Dale, labour home for the Brit stuff, and others for the Irish. The tele blog, was praising its self not so long ago with over one million hits per month. If that is the case then there must be enough of the NI stuff to run a good decent blog like this one. Why expand into territory where your bloggers will not be able to lead? If you are looking to move outside the NI box, why recruit more NI bloggers, (not that mc nally wouldn’t make a good blogger,) but can he or any of your bloggers lead in westminister/dail politics?

    I think maybe Brian Walker would top the list of your bloggers for outside the NI box. After that theres no one. Pete’s terrier attitude, is not simply holding someone to account, , it’s like a hard on. He simply goes after someone and batters, without it serving any purpose. The only other instance of it I can think of it being like is the bad situation between Draper and the conservative bloggers, but that had a personal element to it. Pete has no personal element that makes it rather odd to say the least. He’s a decent blogger theres no need to blast adams unless he does indeed have an agenda? If he has – fair enough. But what ever else Pete is, he isn’t neutral.

    That he tells the truth is much more important to me than whether he rubs some up the wrong way.

    What is the truth in these matters, and who can really be objective, hardly Pete with Adams.

    Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know, why not stay with the corner of the market where you have a monopoly, if you go outside it, then recruit from outside, or your standard and standing will fall.

  • Random Quotes

    Thats grand Mick, but I would question whether consistently posting on one topic (whether that be Adams bashing or the recent events on Jupiter)is the same as carving out a ‘niche’ market. The whole space thing is really so far out of bounds…and I know I dont have to read it,blah blah blah, but at the same time it pushes relevant topics to the back of the queue.
    Final point – Pete doesn’t ‘speak the truth’, he gives his opinion, theres a pretty huge difference.

  • joeCanuck

    I’m pleased that I am no longer one of the few who comments on the views from N.I. skies. NOT

  • Mick Fealty

    OMG,

    Did you not see comment 10? You are not complaining about Pete said, you’re complaining about what he didn’t say.

    Sammy,

    We need a serious talk if you really are serious about taking up the offer…

    Sj1,

    It can’t have been 1 mill hits since we’re verging on 2 million for July (today should take it over)…

    I hear what you say about NI and retaining that focus. Believe me nothing that’s planned will take us away from that. Pace, re Brian and the rest of us not being worthy. But what exactly do you think we should be doing on Northern Ireland that we’re not?

    And for RQ as well:

    As for telling the truth, I agree the truth is never singular, but I don’t hear many criticism of Pete is much other than pretty ad hominem (this thread makes very few tangible points about what’s been said). I am really going to have to write a piece that for once and for all dissociates Slugger from the debased notion that what its at is the pursuit of objectivity for once and for all.

    Truth, even if it is heavily moderated by its own partiality, is preferable to mere opinion. I didn’t see the film, but this quote is has a serious point to it:

    “Opinions are like assholes. “Everybody’s got one and everyone thinks everyone else’s stinks.”

    Check out Slugger’s entry for the ‘Fair Game’ stratagem:

    http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/glossary-fair-game/

  • mo chara

    [i]we’re verging on 2 million for July (today should take it over)[/i]

    Out of genuine interest, do you know how many of those hits are unique? (that may be clumsily phrased but, as I’m not cyber geek, I hope you know what I mean)

    [i]We need a serious talk if you really are serious about taking up the offer…[/i]

    I can just picture the cloyingly condescending L(T)U spitting out his caffe latte somewhere in Bangor having read that.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mick,

    Just sent you an email.

  • Mick Fealty

    No, that’s the user count mc… Hits are not much of a metric these days… According Google we had just under 100,000 visits but only about 30k are actual unique visitors. Our own site stats are rather more generous, I tend to go with Google.