UCU Election Broadcast

The UCU PEB which was broadcast this evening is now on YouTube. In it David Cameron gives Jim Nicholson his personal endorsement. Ignited gives his views.

  • slug

    True Blue

    You do know that Sammy Morse is actually a high ranking paid official of the Alliance Party? He is quite open about this. So as a rival for votes to your party he is hardly the most impartial source of comment on your party.

  • eranu

    thanks for the reply New Blue. i agree with where you are coming from. but i think in NI at the minute flags and so on need to be put away entirely (in this context of attracting people to a party) until such times as people dont see them as red rags and tools of bigotry. for a party wishing to attract all people in NI the best thing to do would be to remove all the attributes that we know cause problems, then approach people completely ‘clean’. whether things are perceived wrongly or not they are still seen as the same old tribal stuff from the past at this stage in the game. introducing the correct perception of the union flag should come way way down the line.

    an opportunity for creativity and a really visible change has been missed in not coming up with a new stylish logo. a big union jack is just the sort of imagery from the past that we need to move on from. its a tick in the box of ‘same old shite’

    i really hope the CU thing is successful though. i think the way to do it is to attract people with ideas, policies, words and actions. while at the same time not repelling them with old style crude in your face red white and blue imagery.

    all the best!

  • New Blue

    eranu

    Thanks for your response, it is great to see that the ‘concept’ is appealing.

    Unfortunately, we can’t please everyone (not this week anyway), but I wholeheartedly agree with you that we must lead with the ‘Ideas, policies and Actions’ that you mention – that is exactly what we are working on but, as I keep saying, this won’t happen overnight. I understand completely where you are coming from in relation to ‘the same old shyte’, but again, if we are to campaign on a UK wide agenda we have to brand ourselves as a pro-union party.

    I know it’s not what some want to hear but, as I have said many times, by the time we get to the next Assembly elections, you will see a very different (and much more appealing to all) beast.

  • slug

    New Blue

    I had a quick look at the Scottish Tory website and I see they don’t seem to be using the Union Jack motif.

    I think Eranu has a point about whether or not to use it in NI. On the one hand, it seems natural to you and me. On the other hand, it might seem offputting to people not traditionally unionist.

    One of these difficult questions – I can see both sides.

  • New Blue

    Slug

    Thanks very much for the heads-up, as I say I’m not too hot on the ‘who’s who’ of political posting.

    I would still be keen to hear his thoughts on how, in the first six months of something very new, he would have approached this challenge.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    New Blue,

    It is a bit silly to talk of the past in relation to Tescos* – it only happened a few weeks ago – and in the next few months most/many/all UU elected members will be taking part in Orange anti-Catholic parades. You indeed sound like a reasonable man but just repeating the party spin in the face of facts is plain silly.

    It is also silly to try and pretend you are a non tribal party when the main tribal issue is Nationality and you/the Tories are siding with Unionism and even have brazen cheek to lecture the natives on the topic.

    *Why no displinary action against the UU/Tory councillor for asking for a ‘review’ of Tesco policy when what was needed was a condemnation of the interfrence in the exisitng very fair policy? Why woudl someone want to give inrto bigotry unless palying to the same gallery?

  • New Blue

    Slug

    That is the challenge, I agree with the party approach that we have to show that ‘trappings of the union’ are not by themselves sectarian, this is done by campaigning, as pro-union, with issues, policies and, most importantly, an attitude, which allows anyone, regardless of religion or culture, to fully engage and participate.

    I had a very interesting conversation today with a gentleman who explained to me that, while he would personally see himself as pro union, he felt that he could not actively follow this because he was catholic. Not because he was afraid that he would be ostracised by friends or family, but because he was concerned that he wouldn’t be made welcome by “Unionists”.

    This is the biggest challenge that the CU’s face, proving that we mean what we say and actively putting an end to ‘little ulsterism’ whilst offering everyone in Northern Ireland the same courtesy and respect as we would want to receive.

    If I didn’t believe we were capable of doing it, I would probably return to the political wilderness.

  • New Blue

    Sammy

    As you keep pointing out, the GFA has removed the national agenda, as soon as the majority vote that they want a UI and ROI agrees then so be it.

    You can’t play this card that CU’s are being unfair by forcing their Pro-Union position down peoples throats. Democracy rules and, currently, democracy says that we want to be in the UK.

    As to the Tesco’s thing, this is a straw you have been clutching at since it was mis-reported.

    At least you have dropped your original (mistaken) opinions that a UUP councillor was centrally involved in forwarding complaints, and I recognise that.

    The remaining issue is one of another councillor ‘reportedly’ asking Tesco’s to review their procedures. If this took place, what does it mean.

    Was he asking Tesco’s to ensure that children are not put at risk from irate small minded adults, was he asking for clarification on Tesco’s policy in relation to complaint handling?

    You take the lines as reported by the media and regurgitate as if you were there.

    I will never support anyone who acts in an offensive or biggoted manner, I believe I have been very clear to you on this on a number of occiasions.

    I would equally not hang a man because of a few column inches in the press. If I hear that someone has done something wrong, I would normally seek supporting evidence before I ‘go to the mattresses’.

  • slug

    True Blue

    “I had a very interesting conversation today with a gentleman who explained to me that, while he would personally see himself as pro union, he felt that he could not actively follow this because he was catholic. Not because he was afraid that he would be ostracised by friends or family, but because he was concerned that he wouldn’t be made welcome by “Unionists”.”

    Interesting to know whether this is widespread.

    In principle this one shouldn’t be too difficult to crack. The issue of religious difference – in itself – isn’t such a divisive one any more.

    A careful choice of candidates and message should help.

    The CUs must be a comfortable place for Catholics or it will have failed.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    New Blue,

    I’m not suggesting the Tories are being ‘unfair’ I’m suggesting they are being hypocrical – you cant lecture the natives on tribalism whilst you are taking sides in a tribal dispute – its just complete nonsense.

    Re. Tescos. I did not drop the suggestion that councillor no 1* had involvement I simply didnt mention it in the last post to see if any UU supoporter would condemn councillor number 2 – which of course they didnt.

    You can picture the scene in the shires if a party like the BNP (and the PUP has some similiarities) coerced a Tescos manager to send some Asian boys home and change because he was offended and the local Tory councillor suggested a review of Tescos policy rather than condemning the coercion?

    Even you – who are the amongst the most moderate of the UU posters on here dont have a problem with this. Sectarinaism runs so deep that people cant even see it. Fair enough you want change but dont fecking lecture us about how free of sectarinism you are when we have the nonsense above and your party leaders are getting their 17th century kit on to take part in tribal anti-catholic marches. Do you know how really naive that sounds?

    *Why has councillor number 1 not demanded that the BBC not remove the story which continues to state his involvement? Tory central have been sent this BBC link and acknowledged its receipt and yet not demanded it be removed. It is surely fair enough to keep referring to it until the BBC are ‘invited’ to remove it dont you think?

  • Driftwood

    Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit
    The nearest party to the BNP in this part of the UK is Sinn Fein. Although the BNP haven’t murdered anyone because of their religion (as far as i know), that is the only distinction between them.
    If the Army cadets carried out a Tesco bag packing in Carryduff I can just hear the cries of ‘Imperialist’ oppression from yourself and other bigots like you subjecting innocent shoppers to propaganda.
    You really,really need to grow up, and get real.
    May I suggest a trial with the TA, once you reach your 16th birthday of course.

  • dewi

    “I had a very interesting conversation today with a gentleman who explained to me that, while he would personally see himself as pro union, he felt that he could not actively follow this because he was catholic. Not because he was afraid that he would be ostracised by friends or family, but because he was concerned that he wouldn’t be made welcome by “Unionists”.”

    On a technical point Mr Blue – do you canvass Nationalist areas?

  • New Blue

    Sammy

    “Fair enough you want change but dont fecking lecture us about how free of sectarinism you are when we have the nonsense above and your party leaders are getting their 17th century kit on to take part in tribal anti-catholic marches. Do you know how really naive that sounds?”

    1: Yes, I want Change

    2: Yes I am completely free of sectarianism

    3: I have been very clear on my opinion of the Orange Order, bigotry on any level and, most importantly, how long I think it will take for the change I believe we are working towards to start to show.

    You may think I sound niave, If that is how I come across, it is unintentional. I am fully aware of the challenges (internal and external)faced by this partnership if it is to achieve what it aims to do.

    I guess my philosophy is to work for that change by trying to show that tribalism and bigotry, at any level, is not acceptable, whilst not closing the door to those who are capable of changing their perceptions.

    The problem is Sammy, we have all lived through a lifetime of shyte, trust and understanding have been forced out of the norm.

    I could not condone Bigotry by anyone to anyone, but who is the niave one if you believe that the effects of the last 40 years have not turned people who may be ordinary citizens had they grown up in a different situation into frightened, blinkered ‘bigots’?

    Is it best to treat the situation here like middle England, or do we acknowledge that this is nothing like middle England (and possibly more like the middle east)and work to change peoples understanding of what ‘Themmuns’ are actually about.

    I understand your desire to ‘just cut out’ the bigots, but surely it is better to show how democracy should work to those who have been brought up in a place where the only position is that most typically Northern Irish stance “just say no and you will be safe”.

    If people at the centre of the last 40 years can move away from murder and hatred to embrace (or at least attempt to embrace) democracy, then should we not offer the same opportunity to everybody, regardless of personal colour preferences?

    I know that there will be some who, no matter how hard we work, will never accept change. I believe that those people will find themselves no longer suited to this partnership and move on.

    Again, I will return to my stance of ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’, change worth having will take work and, more importantly, time.

  • Chekov is another example of a UUP member who sees the merger primarily as a ready source of cash. The only change he’s interested in is Lord Ashcroft’s. The UUP in drag is still the UUP.

    Which I suppose is why I’ve been an enthusiast of the alignment since its inception and why I have argued strenuously for the merits of its philosophy.

    More constructive towards the Irish language – I’m on board. Greater integration in housing and education – totally in favour. An element of positive discrimination to have a greater range of candidates – I can live with that. Orangeism – a part of some people’s culture and identity, but not mine, deeply unenthused. View of the UK – multi-national, multi ethnic, secular state.

    Shame for the flag of the United Kingdom – no – not now and not at any time in the future.

  • kensei

    Drift

    The nearest party to the BNP in this part of the UK is Sinn Fein.

    No, they really aren’t. Absolutely rock solid on equality issues of whatever stripe you care to name, and fairly warm toward immigrants. Really intellectually lazy.

  • PaddyReilly

    Although the BNP haven’t murdered anyone because of their religion

    O come come you can do better than that. A contributor on the previous page mentions a murder at Darkley as part of the SF legacy, I think.

    1) The murder at Darkley was committed by some party calling themselves the “Catholic Reaction Force”
    2) This, it is asserted, (no evidence being required) was a cover name for INLA;
    3) INLA is the same thing as the PIRA (I would have thought they killed more of each other’s men than the “CRF” killed of anyone);
    4) PIRA is the same thing as SF.

    So allowing yourself logical somersaults like these I would think you could quite easily prove that the BNP murdered people for their religion.

    SF, by the way, aligns with the extreme Left in the European Parliament (yes, commies!), while BNP equates with the extreme right.

  • kensei

    Sammy Morse

    The UUP in drag is still the UUP.

    Actually, be fair. They changed the letters. It’s CUMBLA these days.

  • Faolchu

    And so here are the dreary steeples once more. It could have been a good debate about what Europe does/doesn’t/ could do for us. Instead we got the usual political point scoring. Waste of time.

    I suggest a General Knowledge test before voting and I am accused of being a banjo picking redneck.

    I suggest instead that we abandon this election due to lack of interest and send three cardboard cut outs to europe. It will save on expenses.

    NI can opt out of the real world as usual and not align its self to any useful collective in EU parliment. And I thought politics was all about gaining power and influence and keeping it.

    Little on Jim Nics achievements have been said on this thread and apart from the nonviolent confrontation of opposing ideals- not much has been done here either.

    Perhaps a nice u tube alternative to the PEBs for each candidate would be fun.

    Put the cat out I’m away to me leaba.