Ex-Libertas director backs Lisbon

The Irish Times are reporting that ex-Libertas director, and sometime Slugger commenter Naoise Nunn is backing a yes vote in the coming Lisbon referendum re-run.

“The circumstances have changed: internationally, economically, financially and domestically.

“We don’t have the luxury of doing anything else. I am glad that we had a referendum. We were the only member state to do so, to have a proper debate, or something like a proper debate,” Mr Nunn told The Irish Times .

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  • ray

    When are we going to have the next referendum on the Nice Treaty? Forget about the Lisbon Treaty.
    The last referendum was fraudently obtained by the Irish government by illegal advertising ruled illegal by the Irish courts, but naturally, the courts never overturn illegal results by the government.
    Why are “no” votes always considered meaningless by the civil service?
    So, let’s have the third referendum on Nice?
    This is not a democracy. As the Financial Times accurately pointed out, Ireland is a bananma republic.

  • ray

    When are we going to have the next referendum on the Nice Treaty? Forget about the Lisbon Treaty.
    The last referendum was fraudently obtained by the Irish government by illegal advertising ruled illegal by the Irish courts, but naturally, the courts never overturn illegal results by the government.
    Why are “no” votes always considered meaningless by the civil service?
    So, let’s have the third referendum on Nice?
    This is not a democracy. As the Financial Times accurately pointed out, Ireland is a “banana republic.” The wishes of the people are always dismissed.

  • George

    “We don’t have the luxury of doing anything else.”

    What a cop out. Vote yes because you have no choice.

    Why don’t we have the luxury of voting no?

    What provisions in the Lisbon Treaty would change how the EU could deal with this crisis?

    Maybe some pro-Lisbon person could cite a few provisions.

    Europe has several options. We can continue to see the EU run with the provisions from the Nice Treaty (that one from only five years ago) as has already been stated by the EU President.

    There is also the option of fine-tuning the current Treaty without extending competencies (that’s handing over more sovereignty).

    No handing over of more sovereignty, no need for a new referendum.

  • Wilde Rover

    “We don’t have the luxury of doing anything else. I am glad that we had a referendum. We were the only member state to do so, to have a proper debate, or something like a proper debate,” Mr Nunn told The Irish Times .

    Why were you glad a referendum took place? Is there some sort of Eurovision contest for talking sh1te prior to rubber stamping something?

    But I will agree that voting No does seem to be pointless. Anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable voting Yes should just spoil their vote while pissing into the wind and laughing manically.

  • Wilde Rover

    George,

    A more cerebral response than mine. I’m just feeling cynical about the whole thing and can’t shake the feeling that the electorate will be railroaded into passing this referendum, although I do hope I’m wrong.

  • George

    Wilde Rover,
    the whole political establishment is pushing down for a yes vote so they will railroad the weak if they can.

    This is not about democracy or the will of the people of Europe, this is about a vision for Europe that looked for a democratic mandate in the form of the EU Constitution and failed.

    Now we are getting it rammed down our throats, whether we like it or not.

    But even considering to array of forces in favour of Lisbon, Nunn’s position brings a whole new meaning to the word weak.

    Have a debate but in the end, you have to vote yes. It’s a view worthy of an SED apologist.

    It’s not vote yes because you want to, not because it will improve your situation, not because it’s the right thing to do, not because you have been won over by debate, not that it will address the current problems, not that it will close the democratic deficit etc etc.

    No, we are supposed to vote yes because the financial,international, economic and financial situations (none of which have anything to do with the provisions of Lisbon) are different than a year ago.

    I might as well vote yes because there’s swine flu in Mexico and my daffodils came up a little later this year.

    Of course I am more than happy to hear someone from the pro-Lisbon side put me right and outline the deficiencies of the Nice Treaty in addressing the current situation and how the new provisions of the Lisbon Treaty would have worked.

  • Dave

    As freelance spindoctors aren’t exactly renowned for the depth of their principles or convictions, it’s a non-story that a former spindoctor who was paid by Libertas to promote their opposition to Lisbon is no longer promoting that opposition when Libertas are no longer paying him.

    It won’t stop the rabid Europhilic Irish media from using the ill-informed opinion of one spindoctor for maximum propaganda value, but it’ll probably lead to a lot of well-paid article for newspapers for said spindoctor.

  • Rory Carr

    Naoise Nunn, Naoise Nunn
    What have you done?
    Your boss said “No!”
    You told us so.
    Now boss says, “Yes!”
    Naoise Nunn, God bless.

    It is said of a great athlete, ” He could turn on a dime”. Perhaps that is Naoise’s skill.

  • Greenflag

    ‘The circumstances have changed: internationally, economically, financially and domestically’

    Full marks for the obvious 🙂 Obviously the anti EU xenophobes don’t agree but then they may feel they can afford their principles .

    Beware of those with too many principles for if and when the world turns they’ll drag you behind and under with them – most of the time anyway . Remember this country fought an uncivil war over words of meaningless principle (the oath ) and a personality clash -Collins and De Valera .

    Ireland will be voting YES to Lisbon . This is no time to be contemplating a stand alone currency or even worse contemplating rejoining sterling .

    Goodbye Ganley /Libertas.

  • Dave

    Greenflag, he also said that he “he had changed his mind on the treaty before he left Libertas last September” and, therefore, before the extent to which membership of the Eurozone had bankrupted Ireland financial institutions was known. At any rate, he doesn’t have an argument since ratifying the treaty would not have retrospectively prevented damage that was already done. Indeed, transferring more sovereignty to those who have used previous transfers of sovereignty to bankrupt the country sounds like a smart plan, eh?

  • Dave

    By the way, that time frame for changing his mind was between the referendum in June and the cessation of his paid employment as a freelance spin-doctor with Libertas in September, so that is a very short time frame.

  • George

    Greenflag,
    Full marks for the obvious 🙂 Obviously the anti EU xenophobes don’t agree but then they may feel they can afford their principles

    Perhaps you’d care to point some of the Lisbon provisions you feel are so necessary in the current climate.

    Where is Nice failing to deliver and how would Lisbon have filled the gaps?

    This is no time to be contemplating a stand alone currency or even worse contemplating rejoining sterling .

    As has already been made clear, the EU will continue with Nice if there is no Lisbon. The euro will remain, as will all the other institutions.

    The only people talking of contemplating stand alone currencies are the Yes to Lisbon people.

    These comments are either being made out of ignorance or out of an effort to railroad people who aren’t aware of what the Treaty is all about. Which camp are you in?

  • StillHaveaJobAtLeast

    “‘The circumstances have changed: internationally, economically, financially and domestically’

    Full marks for the obvious 🙂 Obviously the anti EU xenophobes don’t agree but then they may feel they can afford their principles .

    Beware of those with too many principles for if and when the world turns they’ll drag you behind and under with them – most of the time anyway . Remember this country fought an uncivil war over words of meaningless principle (the oath ) and a personality clash -Collins and De Valera .

    Ireland will be voting YES to Lisbon . This is no time to be contemplating a stand alone currency or even worse contemplating rejoining sterling .

    Goodbye Ganley /Libertas.”

    Greenflag, I’m wondering, how will ratifying the Lisbon treaty improve or have much of an impact on the financial & economic problems domesticaly/internationally?

    Also don’t you think you’re painting a large swathe of people with the one brush by describing those who don’t support the Lisbon treaty as xenophobes? Or is it just that you’re so enthusiastic for the destruction of the nation state that you tar those who don’t want to give away the last remaining vestiges of sovereignty as bigots and racists?

  • Greenflag

    ,

    Dave,

    ‘extent to which membership of the Eurozone had bankrupted Ireland financial institutions was known.’

    We all knew (at least I did from 2005 ) that the property bubble was going to burst . What we did’nt know was when . And what we also did’nt know was the extent to which the shadow banking financial services sector in the USA -aided and abetted by others of the financial sector class in the UK , Ireland, Israel, and elsewhere had undermined the entire world banking system through it’s reckless greed. The Bush administration is primarily responsible for taking it’s eyes off the financial ball as it waged unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and spent most of it’s time trying to increase the numbers of Americans without health care and spending more time on opposing abortion , same sex marriages , stem cell research issues etc etc etc . There is a reason why only 20% of Americans now call themselves Republicans .

    The fact that the EU needs reform I’ve no doubt . And Ireland -given our geographical location and history needs to be seen as a full member of the EU .

    stillhaveajob etc ,

    ‘Or is it just that you’re so enthusiastic for the destruction of the nation state that you tar those who don’t want to give away the last remaining vestiges of sovereignty as bigots and racists? ‘

    Nation States in europe will be around for a long time to come . What has changed and is continually changing is what is understood by ‘sovereignty ‘ . Nations are no longer ‘sovereign’ as in the 19th century sense nor will they ever be again . Even the USA the world’s only super power is dependent on Chinese investment in it’s treasury bills to prevent the dollar from collapsing.

    I’m aware that many of those who oppose Lisbon are not bigots or racists . But when they line up with the likes of the French Fascist leader Le Pen and the former Austrian neo nazi party leader and the likes of Libertas then you know what is said about those who touch black paint ? The old Chinese adage has it that they acquire black fingers . And when you see the right wing Press ‘rants ‘ in the UK still opposed to the EU you should instinctively know that Ireland needs to be with the rest of Europe and not with an offshore island still wallowing in the detritus of former imperial glory 🙁

  • Joey Jockstrap

    ” And when you see the right wing Press ‘rants ’ in the UK still opposed to the EU you should instinctively know that Ireland needs to be with the rest of Europe and not with an offshore island still wallowing in the detritus of former imperial glory 🙁 ”

    David Vance would be very upset with you if he read that 😀

  • Greenflag

    joey jockstrap ,

    ‘David Vance would be very upset with you if he read that’

    Naw – DV already has already if you’ll pardon the coincidental relationship with your moniker a neck like a jockey’s bollix 😉 We at least share that much in common 😉