RIRA admit to killing Denis Donaldson

The Sunday Tribune reports on the RIRA’s Easter message, which includes an admission to the shooting of Denis Donaldson. Text to follow when the Tribune website is updated. Reuters has a summary.

  • Glenn

    Provos subcontracting work out?

  • Scaramoosh

    So there we have it, the brains trust of the Real IRA could not see that an alive Denis Donaldson, was a thorn in the side of both the provisionals and the intelligence services.

    Perhaps it was just the case that he was another easy target that they could not resist taking out.
    Or perhaps, just perhaps. they were being manipulated from within to do the dirty work of others ….

  • Reader

    Scaramoosh: Or perhaps, just perhaps.
    Is this a brand new conspiracy theory or just an inescapable twist on one of the old ones?

  • If true it seems an extremely stupid thing to do, as the death of Donaldson could only benefit the security services and their asset’s within the republican movement.

    As Confucius once said, “if you set out on a journey of revenge, be sure to dig two graves before you go.”

  • susan

    Mick, alive Donaldson was an embarassment to the security and intelligence services, and to to the Republican movement, but I imagine in orchestrating his murder RIRA meant to recruit seasoned hardliners, impressionable, inexperienced youths and those beyond the island of Ireland who saw his continued survival as an abdication of Republican responsibility and duty that long held that, to paraphrase — the traitor must die.

    (In case there is any doubt, I don’t agree with or in any way condone his murder, I feel both empathy and sypathy for those who cared about and knew him, or at some stage of their lives thought they did. Miserable business. Of all the unanswered questions of the last five years or so, two of the most pressing are “What did Donaldson’s British handler possibly hope to achieve when he/she informed Donaldson his cover would soon be blown, and what did he expect Donaldson to do with the news? Whatever he/she expected, it was not for Donaldson to call a press conference, flanked by Adams and McGuinness.

    No wonder MI5 is now reduced to using its website to look for informants — their treatment of their longtuime agent Donaldson rivals Eastern European human trafficking rings for callousness.

    Another HUGE point about claiming responsibility for Donaldson’s death now — it’s a message to elected politicians, McGuiness obviously above all, that RIRA have both the means, motive and desire to dispatch others they see as traitors. And, of course, to sway public opinion in advance of any future “executions.”

    In positioning themselves as responsible for “executing crown forces” — I’ve not read the entire statement, but I will go out on a limb and suppose that in their Easter statement they have edited out any reference to shooting pizza deliverymen full of holes, regardless of said pizza men’s religion or politics — as well as executing Donaldson “the traitor” with impunity –RIRA continue to seek to position themselves best they can as the blooded and fullblown heirs in the long line of physical force Republicanism. Expect more of the same in this year’s Hunger Strike commemorations.

    What to do about that? At opposite ends of the spectrum, you have some Republicans — RIRA, CIRA — arguing that physical force is always legitimate, that the violence and death are unfortunate but morally always the responsibility of illegitimate British “occupiers,” and on the other side, hardline Unionists just as busily maintaining that all physical force Republicanism has always been illegitimate, that any excessive or illegal use of force by the British has always been a response to Republican violence and thus ultimately the moral responsibility of Republicans themselves, and never the British state.

    Both extremes require a dehumanising, uncompromising view of “the enemy” banishing all shades of grey. Most of those that grew up with or played a part in the Troubles understand that “you cannot kill a uniform,” only a fellow luckless human being, for all the blather and official statements about executing crown forces, traitors, touts, etc.. Likewise those militarily or politically involved in the nuts and bolts reality of maintaining the Union — as opposed to the whiter than whites pontificating from the sidelines — understand that in the past much hardline Republicanism did not in fact have its roots in the fact that Gerry read a book on Che, or starry eyed visions of Ireland united and free. In the case of many PAST paramilitaries on either side, you have not dozens but hundreds of clear cut case studies of brutalising violence, intimidation and injustice breeding more brutalising violence, intimidation and injustice. Inconvenient to those favouring a narrative of gods and monsters, “goodies” and “baddies,” but there you are.

    The RIRA statement is a clear message that those who find continued and at times contradictory compromise leading to an uncertain future morally preferable to military operations leading to an uncertain future, and those who believe politics and poltiics alone are the way forward to a united Ireland, may be risking their lives.

    On the other hand, it was ever thus.

  • Valenciano

    “I imagine in orchestrating his murder RIRA meant to recruit seasoned hardliners, impressionable, inexperienced youths and those beyond the island of Ireland who saw his continued survival as an abdication of Republican responsibility and duty that long held that, to paraphrase—the traitor must die.”

    As a motive this would make sense. The main problem with this theory though is their failure to claim responsibility at the time. Why wait three years? Why not capitalise on the killing when it was in the headlines to attract recruits rather than now when it’s old news and its propaganda value is limited?

  • T.R.O.H.V.M

    Whilst a tragic event for his family, Mr Donaldson was well aware of the direction in which his activities would eventually lead him…..

  • susan

    Valenciano — it was just a working theory when I banged it out yesterday, but the interviews and statements in the Tribune pretty much seem to confirm it. If I’d thought it was going to be spelled out so explicitly I never would have taken so much time from preparing the family’s Easter dinner.

    T.R.O.H.V.M. — Of course, Donaldson was “well aware”, of course he was. That’s why his decision to hold a press conference with Adams and McGuinness and announce himself a long time informant for the Crown was so extraordinary.

    And Donaldson’s handlers in the intelligence service were “well aware” — based on precedent, common sense, etc. — what “direction” Donaldson was headed for if his spying activities were outed, too. So why did they tell him in advance he was going to be outed? Was it a bluff? If so, did they expect he would commmit suicide or flee the country rather than endure exposure? Did they plan to “out” him to exert more pressure on an even-more highly placed informant? If not, why out him? Did his handlers have evidence or suspicion to believe he’d double-crossed them (sorry, don’t read spy novels, don’t know the proper jargon) and betrayed their agenda?

    And how much did Donaldson know or guess of his handlers’ short-term and long-term objectives?

    The long persistance of rumours of agents and highly placed informants within RIRA and CIRA now seem to be overestimated in light of the three slayings in March, but still, in the case of the execution of Denis Donaldson, it does seem the agenda of the RIRA assassins dovetailed neatly with that of Donaldson’s British handlers.

  • susan

    Speaking of dovetailing interests, regarding the hit wish list RIRA gave the Tribune yesterday — “Kevin Fulton,” Ray Gilmour, etc. — does anyone in or out of their right minds think British intelligence would be crestfallen to have the expense, inconvenience, annoyance and (in “Fulton’s” case) potentially incriminating legal testimony of their former agents and informers taken off their hands?

  • picador

    Peter Keeley’s name has long been in the public domain.

  • susan

    True. picador. I found it odd that so many on the hit list published yesterday are living under British protection programmes, but others –Paddy Dixon, believed to be living abroad under a Garda protection programme, and Paddy Murray, living who knows where — were not listed at all.

  • picador

    They don’t want to mention Paddy Murray – not good for recruitment. Scap didn’t rate a mention either. Perhaps he knows too much about some of these guy’s past activities.

  • Dave

    RIRA’s statement that there are five named agents it wants to kill doesn’t make any sense when you consider that Freddie Scappaticci is one of them. Scappaticci and JJ Magee were the two top men in PIRA’s ISU. That unit was PIRA’s means of detecting British agents within its ranks, and it it has a remit to inquire into all aspects of PIRA operations that could only be countermanded by an Army Council order. When your means of detecting British agents within your ranks is controlled by British agents, it doesn’t take Che Guevara to figure out that you are fatally compromised, and that British agents are operating and being promoted unchallenged throughout your ranks. That is the purpose of controlling the ISU. Since PIRA failed to rotate those counterintelligence roles to prevent long-term infiltration of them by British intelligence in accordance with accepted security practice, you can either conclude that they were the dumbest terrorist group in the world or that the higher-ups kept those British agents in place for decades to protect themselves. It isn’t a case that a few British agents were in control of the Shinners, but rather that it was majorly controlled by them. The gamekeeper was working for the poachers. Why then do RIRA pretend that there were only a handful of British agents in PIRA when there was no means of detecting them? It is likely to be because that group is just as controlled by British intelligence agencies as the Shinners are.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Dave

    South Armagh was one place that did not get significantly infiltrated for the most part, would you agree?

  • Brian MacAodh

    Why is donaldson alive a thorn in the side to the intelligence agencies? because his cover was blown?

  • picador

    Dave,

    What is your proof that JJ Magee was an agent? He had been in the British Army = or was it Marines – before the outbreak of the troubles but so, ironically, had quite a number people who ended up in the Provos. When you are looking to start a war it is generally useful to have a few people with military experience around – or so I would have thought?

    Brian

    ‘significantly’ being the operative word.

  • redhugh78

    Dave,
    if the Provos were so heavily infiltrated how woulld you explain Brighton,Canary wharf, Downing street attack, Manchester etc?

  • IRIA

    Picador: Correct on JJ Mageee. One doesn’t always = the other.

  • Dave

    Kevin Fulton and Eamon Collins, both British agents, were also members of the ISU under the leadership of Freddie Scappaticci and JJ Magee (appointed under the leadership of Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams and retain in place by them until the former retired and the latter died). So, you have the head of PIRA’s Internal Security Unit who is apparently so skilled at detecting British agents that he is unable to detect that the deputy head of the Internal Security Unit is a British agent, and you have both the head of the Internal Security Unit and the deputy head of the Internal Security Unit being apparently so skilled at detecting British agents that they are both unable to detect that their employess as members of the Internal Security Unit are also British agents. Somebody is having a laugh, kid. The reason that Internal Security Unit was controlled from top to bottom by British agents is because they were appointed to those positions by British agents so that, rather obviously, the Internal Security Unit would not detect British agents.

    Redhugh, so that folks can ask the questions you ask, and thereby arrive at the conclusions you, presumably, have arrived at. The bigger picture, as Thatcher pointed out, is that folks who oppose British rule must be brought to accept that British rule is legitimate – “the minority should be led to support or at least acquiesce in the constitutional framework of the state in which they live.” Since you can kill the man but not the ideal, you must change your tactics so that you gain control of the ideal and redefine it according to your own agenda. In that context, Irish republicanism being redefined as support for British sovereignty was worth the price. Control of PIRA also allowed the British to direct opposition to their rule away from the effective option of civil disobedience (as it was emerging in the late 60s and which terminated colonial rule in other regions) and into a campaign of terror that could only polarise the two tribes and conclude in the consolidation of British rule as those who formerly opposed it, either by violence or by cheerleading, were glad to trade their former ideals for peace. It’s a bit like the more gullible IRA members used to tink was a foolproof method f detecting agents in their ranks, i.e. if they shot an innocent man dead, then they could not be a British agent (since the a British agent would never do such a thing, don’r you know).

  • Dave

    By the way, John Ware in The Telegragh wrote this:

    [i]The late Eamon Collins was a member of the security department team. In his book, Killing Rage, Collins recalls sitting down with Scappaticci and John Joe Magee, the commander of the security department. Collins asked Scap if he would be expected to shoot informers. Scappaticci explained that “when the time arrived”, Collins would “have to do it”. Collins then wondered aloud if they always told people that they were going to be killed.

    Scappaticci, Collins wrote, “turned to John Joe and started joking about an informer who had confessed after being offered an amnesty. Scap had told the man that he had nothing to worry about, but that he had to keep the blindfold on for security reasons as they walked away from the car. ‘It was funny’, he said, ‘watching the bastard stumbling and falling, asking me as he felt his way along the railings: ‘Is this my home now?’, and I’d say: ‘No, not yet. Walk on.’

    ‘And then you shot the fucker! In the back of the head!’ said John Joe – and they both burst out laughing.”[/i]

    Charming, isn’t it? Three British agents appointed by Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness recounting how they had such fun while shooting non British agents (patsys to take the fall for the actual British agent in a compromised operation) or British agents who had outlived their usefulness.

  • Brian MacAodh

    Dave

    that is one of the best, provocative posts I have read in awhile. Pretty mindblowing if you buy into some of the myths the current republicans have tried to pass off as accepted versions of history….how long do you think Gerry Adams has been, essentially, a british agent? after the capture of the Eskund and the blow to the Tet offensive plans? Or possibly before, after being shot?

    Obviously important folk(s) on the Army Council were agents by 1987, including IMO McGuinness (either that or he made an idiotic mistake..and he’s not an idiot so make your choice). It was he who sought and received permission to break the strict rule of secrecy for the last, monster libyan shipment and the planned “Tet offensive”.
    “The agreement was that people outside the Army Council would not be told anyhting about the Libyan shipments until the Eksund was in, but when Slab and McKevitt were out of the country, the Council gave the go-ahead. When they got back and heard what happened, they were livid.”

    Although, to he fair, there were so many informers in the upper levels that the “Tet Offensive” probably never would have gotten off the ground enough to come close to achieving their objective.

    However, do you really think that the British had this policy in mind in the early 70s? I think for the first years of the trouble they were reacting to events that would soon spiral out of control, despite their best efforts. I really think that for a few months in 72 the Brits were at a loss of what to do, as they were hesitant to commence with Operation Motorman. Fortunately for them, the Provos bombed the hell out of civilians and nationalist opinion turned against them enough for the Brits to take back the No Go zones. Once they did and started infiltrating the PIRA they would be able to control or at least contain the PIRA to acceptable levels of mayhem while pushing them to redefine their agenda.

  • Paul McMahon

    I don’t know who are Brit agents, touts, spys or any of nouns given for someone who passes info from one group to another but ‘fraid you need to get your chronological facts in order Dave.

    Have never heard it said that Peter Keeley was a member of PIRA ISU so not sure where your source for that comes from however Collins was no ‘agent’ he was scooped in the wake of the IRA bombing of Newry courthouse in 1985 and broke while in custody. He was then to give evidence as a ‘supergrass’ before withdrawing his evidence.

    Collins was a member of the ISU prior to this and was expelled from the IRA, and subsequently murdered, after it. Collins could not be described as some kind of ‘agent’

  • picador

    Dave,

    Kevin Fulton and Eamon Collins, both British agents, were also members of the ISU under the leadership of Freddie Scappaticci and JJ Magee (appointed under the leadership of Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams and retain in place by them until the former retired and the latter died).

    JJ Magee – see above. Easy but wrong to accuse people of being touts.

    Wrong on Eamon Collins as well.

    Collins was not a British agent within the IRA but a supergrass who broke under interrogation and agreed to implicate his comrades – he later retracted.

    Kevin Fulton – his name is Peter Keeley.

    I might as well accuse you of being a British agent with the misinformation you are posting tonight. Try getting your facts straight next time.

  • picador

    Easy but wrong to accuse dead people of being touts.

  • As a working class movement, there was always a potential for infiltration regardless of motivation. There is no mystery here. The reason that the IRA are been put under so much scrutiny as oppossed to other guerilla groups internationally is dependant on the predication of the powerful elite whom control the media in Ireland and the UK.

    Two questions:-

    1/ If the IRA were so compromised, why did it remain so potent?

    2/ If it was, as alleged, so compromised, what were the ‘security services’ actually doing?

    Dig deeper my friends! The answer maybe more unpalatable than you wish to think!

    Who are the actual ‘terrorists????

  • susan

    Why is donaldson alive a thorn in the side to the intelligence agencies? because his cover was blown?

    Posted by Brian MacAodh on Apr 13, 2009 @ 05:45 PM

    I don’t know, Brian. But of all the reasons bandied about why Donaldson was an informer for both Special Branch and MI5, one you don’t hear is that he was a committed closet unionist. Why did he do it then? I don’t know what he was promised, paid, or threatened with over the years, but Denis Donaldson knew, and might have eventually said, in a book deal or television interview.

    I don’t know whether or with what success he pushed his handlers’ agenda within SF’s operations and negotiations, but Denis Donaldson knew .

    When he was arrested and accused of being part of a republican spy ring at Stormont, there were no doubt those within the security forces who had no idea Donaldson was being paid in the services of SB and MI5, but their supervisors, or at least their supervisors’ supervisor, knew. And of course, Donaldson knew. Still, the spy ring accusations and arrests collapsed Trimble and Mallon’s power-sharing executive in short order. Why? Was Donaldson really spying simultaneously for SF on one side and SB and MI5 on other, or at last credibly pretending to? Or was he telling the truth when he claimed the spy ring existed only as the creation of securocrats to bring down the the executive?

    I don’t know. I don’t know if Denis Donaldson knew. Would Donaldson have eventually revealed proof to back up his assertions? If — if — Donaldson’s charge were proven true, it would raise loud questions about British strategy and political intention, particularly from what’s left of the UUP and SDLP.

    And why, when he took the Queen’s shilling as an informer for decades, did he still figure his chances of survival were better confessing all to Adams and McGuinness then relying on the protection of his long term employers in the intelligence services?

    Even if is true that the intelligence services offered to spirit him out of the country and Donaldson turned them down — perhaps thinking publically exposing the truth would make life safer for his family remaining in Belfast — why if Donaldson had any alternative would he still choose to remain in the cottage in Donegal after the reporter from the Sunday World had tracked him down, and published photos, and clues to his location in a front page piece?

    No one is saying the intelligence services killed Donaldson. I am pointing out they did not fall all over themselves keeping him alive. And now with RIRA seizing this moment to claim responsibilty for Donaldson’s death and announce a queerly incomplete (given their newly announced role as guardians of the Green Book) list of intended traitorous targets it is reasonable to wonder what other lessons are to be learned from Donaldson’s life and death — lessons beyond the one dictated on Sunday by the 32CSM’s publicity and pr department, backed by trained snipers on active duty.

    Just as the snipers found their targets and escaped detection, there does seem to be no small amount of stagecraft to all this. It seems fair to assume the three March murders were timed with Easter in mind — short enough time ago that the “kills” are still vivid in public memory, long enough ago that the dazed widow and broken, middle aged parents are off the front pages.

    It’s the political pronouncements that seem an afterthought. If you are going to intentionally shoot — and shoot — an immigrant pizza deliverer hired by a pizza franchise to deliver pizzas to whoever orders them in the name of James Connolly, you ought to at least be prepared to articulate how shooting soldiers at a base long scheduled to close, and a sniper hit on a police officer who thought he was responding to a distress call from a frightened mother in a nationalist enclave are going to remove the British presence from Ireland.

    Because it seems more orchestrated to deliver the poor and the working class — to paraphrase Connolly — as “a victim to the gullet of the snake”. The GFA has yet to deliver a united Ireland. And blood in the streets delivered what, exactly?

  • Susan I agree with you completely about Donaldson’s death, it was a strange thing for the RIRA to do and as you have pointed out, in the long term it can only benefit those the RIRA oppose.

    More on the future of armed republicanism here,
    http://www.organizedrage.com/2009/04/irish-republicanism-can-it-play-viable.html

  • redhugh78

    Dave,
    that would mean Thatcher was prepared to risk the lives (including her own)of her entire government at brighton, sorry Dave but your theory just does not wash.

  • redhugh78

    p.s Dave why is it you hang on every word of a man like Collins, he was compromised by the British and was prepared at one stage to be a supergrass,
    so in that context why would you believe every word he writes in a sensationalised book?
    He admits to being a liar yet we are supposed to take his book as gospel, I would take it all with a very large pinch.

  • De Ja Vu

    Was Donaldson in the RIRA?

  • IRIA

    no

  • susan

    Mick Hall, I do not agree with all that you have said, but I agree with more, so much more, than I expected to. And you’ve said it well. There need to be more muscular arguments put forth like this, right now, both from pro and anti-Agreement republicans, and with nationalists, where the welfare of the young and the working class are not ignored or an afterthought, but front and centre.

    Photo-ops on the steps of Stormont and canned condemnation do nothing to speak to those most at risk, as you point out forcefully. No doubt if your piece were blogged here comment would veer off into contentious debate on your claim that PIRA was defeated. One reason I would have asked you to leave it out. Unsucessfully, I’m sure :o). I’m convinced a key to actual peace — as opposed to peace processes — is acceptance that people must be left to bury and remember their dead, and live with and remember their legacies, in their own ways. But I diverge. If I were going to ask a North Sea helicopter pilot to airdrop just a few paragraphs of your piece on the sink estates, these would be the ones. I would title it, with a nod to Tommy Sands, “Those that give the orders will not be the ones to die”

    “Today we live in a fish bowl of a world. With much of what we do as we go about our legitimate business being legally tracked and computerized by government agencies such as the police, security services, NHS, DWP, inland revenue, UK Border Agency, Highways Agency, and countless private companies contracted by the government to collect and collate information on the citizenry. Almost our every public act and move is monitored, CCTV, Telephone and Internet usage, cash and card transactions, Google Street view, and god knows what else. Making a covert war difficult if not impossible to fight ‘successfully…..

    ‘In the current political climate it makes it an odds on certainty that all an armed struggle will eventually achieve is create a conveyor belt system that will fill the jails and cemeteries with young patriotic Irish men and women.
    To engage in an armed struggle at a time when the advantage lays completely with the enemy is not a sign of heroic leadership, but one of crass stupidity and callousness. Historically Irish republicanism has always calculated carefully when to go to war, war itself was never the raison d’être of the Movement. The main measuring stick for war was whether Britain’s was disadvantaged enough for Ireland to take advantage. By carrying on with the armed struggle today this methodology has been thrown out of the window and armed struggle has become a macho fetish in itself.

    In the foreseeable future campaigns must surely be fought out on the democratic field, in the open and in full view of the electorate.” Mick Hall

    http://www.organizedrage.com/2009/04/irish-republicanism-can-it-play-viable.html

  • Dave

    “that would mean Thatcher was prepared to risk the lives (including her own)of her entire government at brighton, sorry Dave but your theory just does not wash.”

    Yawn. Straw man. No one claimed that every member of PIRA was a British agent or that every PIRA action was directed by British intelligence. Politicians set the policy, and the intelligence agencies implement it. The politicians don’t ask the details, since knowing that would implicate them in the commission of serious crimes and do serious damage to the reputation of the state. The policy that she set has been achieved. It’s about claiming ownership of the ideal. That is best accomplished by those who are seen as the militant defenders of it, and who are seen as so dedicated to it that they would risk their lives for it. You don’t buy that kind of capital without a few spectaculars, and the like. But once you have control of the ideal, you can then redefine it to accommodate your ‘defence of the realm’ agenda. The demand of the British state since partition was that those who opposed its legitimacy must reverse that position and declare that it is legitimate. Mission accomplished for British intelligence agencies.

    “Dave why is it you hang on every word of a man like Collins, he was compromised by the British and was prepared at one stage to be a supergrass,
    so in that context why would you believe every word he writes in a sensationalised book?”

    What hangs on his word? Nothing but a “charming” anecdote. By the way, Adams driver, Roy McShane, who was recently outed as a British agent was also a member of the ISU. Old JJ Magee must have been as dumb as a ox, eh? Kind of odd for a man who was clever enough to hide the fact that he was an elite member of the Special Boat Squadron in the British marines until another British agent outted him in court documents. I wonder if the man who appointed him as head of the ISU knew? Fulton also said that the FRU placed him in the ISU. Now, why would Gerry and Martin consult with the FRU about who should be appointed to the ISU? I’m sure it’s just a disgruntled former employee making up stuff, don’t you know.

    “He admits to being a liar yet we are supposed to take his book as gospel, I would take it all with a very large pinch.”

    Same deal with Gerry “I wasn’t in the IRA” Adams, I guess.

  • Dave

    “Fulton also said that the FRU placed him in the ISU.” – placed Fulton, not JJ, just in case that is confusing.

  • Dave

    I wouldn’t get so starry-eyed about Mick Hall’s apparent commitment to peaceful means, Susan, as it doesn’t exist in his Trotskyist heart. He is not saying that violence should not be used for political ends as a matter of principle, but rather that it should not be used because the surveillance state exposes the anti-state actors to personal risk and renders their campaign unlikely to be successful. If this objection could be circumvented, then the use of violence would be fine and dandy. Perhaps then, a change of anti-state tactics might be appropriate, such as the use of chemicals or attacks on installations or networks of key importance, etc. Or, perhaps, the number of organised crime gangs that operate throughout the world show that surveillance state is conducive to crime but not to revolution. True, I think, but then again, assuming the Shinners did manage to make the British state renounce their claim to the territory of Northern Ireland rather than vice versa, the Shinners would then have had to turn their guns on the south, and we’d have shoved their socialist republic right up their shit pipes.

    I also think, Mick, that you should know from what you say in the quote below that these people are loyal to the half-crown:

    “…if the British government had truly wanted to bring peace to the North of Ireland, they would have got on the boat home long ago. But as they seem intent on staying put, the first thing they should have done after the Provo’s surrendered their arms, was to pour money and youth workers into every sink estate in the six counties, be it nationalist or loyalist.”

    It’s right there in what you say, isn’t it? It isn’t about ending British rule, but rather it is about improving the quality of British rule. If, as you say, Her Majesty’s money was spent on these people, then they would not be bothered their backsides with militant demands for an end to British rule. That policy is already in play in NI where the subvention accounts for 74% of GDP as a percentage of public spending, so there is no room to maximise it unless you want to get it to near 100% of GDP. The British state already has a policy of making them state-dependent, and that is why they will always vote to remain within Her Majesty’s domain and why the south will vote to reject them if a poll is ever called. But, of course, you’re not supposed to say that.

  • redhugh78

    ” No one claimed that every member of PIRA was a British agent or that every PIRA action was directed by British intelligence. Politicians set the policy, and the intelligence agencies implement it”

    No, but you present the argument that the british had the IRA so heavily infiltrated that attacks like the few I point out (I could go on)would not possibly ever have been allowed to take place.

    You sir a black propagandist if ever there was one!
    Are you still in the pay of the spooks and securocrats (I love that word)is your ‘job’ the sowing of mistrust and suspicion amongst Irish Republicans?

    I for one do not fall for your ‘John Bull’.

  • Excuse me if I am wrong, but has anyone cast the slightest doubt about the RIRA’s dubious claim?

    I think it is a great propaganda coup, but I have doubts that the RIRA did it, given the timing, circumstances, and probable motive for the ‘confession’.

    Why wait years until it finally kills unsuspecting British soldiers to make the admission when doing so back when the GFA was hanging in the balance would have been more effective politically?

    Obviously, waiting until the IRA leadership became legitimate targets within the ranks of the disgruntled physical force people.

    And what could better put the fear of God now into the IRA leadership – the guys who stood by Donaldson after he was outed – than now claiming falsely that it assassinated him?

  • IRIA

    “Old JJ Magee must have been as dumb as a ox, eh? Kind of odd for a man who was clever enough to hide the fact that he was an elite member of the Special Boat Squadron in the British marines until another British agent outted him in court documents.”

    Who outed him in court documents?

    I know in “A Secret History of the IRA”, it is mentioned that Magee was a former member of the SBS, but it wasn’t really mentioned as if to say he was a tout all along.

  • susan

    Trow, Barry McCaffrey reported in the Irish News this morning that there is an ex-Real IRA member in police protective custody today after providing forensic evidence which may prove the real identity of the real Real IRA killers.

  • Paul McMahon

    “By the way, Adams driver, Roy McShane, who was recently outed as a British agent was also a member of the ISU”

    No he wasn’t, he was part of the security team for the SF leadership

  • Perhaps, I am just too suspicious, susan, but I would put little faith in any sledgehammer that an RIRA member comes up with at this late date, linking it to the killing of Denis Donaldson.

    It has to have something like this – what could easily have been arranged recently by some RIRA person going by the cottage, beating on its door with a sledgehammer, and then hiding it for convenient discovery by the police when led there – or it would ultimately just be dismissed as convenient propaganda.

    For more of this, note the leaving out of its admission of his murder in its actual Easter Uprising commemorative address, acting as if admitting the murder was a mistake.

    The RIRA seems to be playing us as suckers.

  • susan

    Trow, I’m sure there is more we don’t know than do, but according to McCaffrey there is indisputable evidence of the two earlier attempts on the ex-RIRA member’s life by RIRA, in a separate assault –reported in the media at the time as an altercation over a drug deal gone wrong — and a separate pipe bomb outside the ex-member’s house. If RIRA were going to attempt to verify their claims of assassinating Donaldson with concocted evidence, an ex member would be the last person to trot out on a propaganda mission to the gards. How the ex member knew where the sledgehammer was, can’t imagine — perhaps they were a driver, perhaps their role and alleigiances were even more complicated all along. It’s all conjecture at this point.

    Whether there could still be DNA evidence on a sledgehammer after several years — that would be one for the forensic people, I’ve no clue.

  • Still, it hardly makes sense to me, susan.

    Why would the culprits, if they had killed Donaldson, go to the trouble of hiding the sledgehammer with the DNA debris on it? Would it be the trophy for the killing rather than the celebrated shotgun?

    I think that killers would have simply cleaned up the sledge, and put it back where it came from.

    The dissident RIRA member – most likely an informant himself – seems to be taking vengeance on his former colleagues for having tried to start up The Troubles again, and what better way to do it than the way I have already suggested?

    He’s got almost everyone believing him.

  • IRIA

    The alleged RIRA/informant story is interesting. It really does sound like a load of propoganda to make the RIRA a bit paranoid.

    I don’t advocate using his name on this blog, but was the guy involved in these events named in the news stories:

    “reported in the media at the time as an altercation over a drug deal gone wrong—and a separate pipe bomb outside the ex-member’s house”

  • Now Gary ‘Donzo’ Donnelly – who was recently jailed for his membership in the RIRA – has denied that the Gardai source for the claim that it killed Denis Donaldson was ever a member of it.

    Seems that the RIRA learned of the securocrats fixing it up for the killing of the British tout, and it has now made a virtue of it.

    Still suspect that other British touts, fearful of their exposure by Donaldson (any come to mind?), disposed of him first.