Grand Slam Rugby Tee Shirts…

The excellent Philosophy Football site have rushed out a celebratory tee shirt to celebrate Ireland’s first Grand Slam in 61 years last Saturday. It has the scores from all the Six Nations games printed across the front, with the national flags of each of the countries we defeated along the way, and in the order of their dispatch. From past experience they sell a quality product, so it deserves to sell like hot cakes. But I imagine the choice of the tricolour to represent the IRFU will hamper sales to yer actual northern rugby head…

NB: I came across this on the Serendipstick site for bloggers who are prepared to write in return for free stuff they like. So it’s a free tee shirt for me! Feel to try it yourself!

  • dewi

    ““seriously i don’t see what’s objectionable about 2 anthems”

    I do – you can’t blasted sing either / both of them.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    We could well see the 2 Irish ladyball (football) teams going out of world cup contention this weekend – lets get it absolutely spot on for rugby and we will be able to argue that one football team is to everyone’s benefit and not a threat.

  • Driftwood

    Yeah, just love to see the Ulster players keep their mouths firmly clamped to ‘The Soldiers song’. Why bother with any anthem? After all, the president of the RoI is British born. And as a former subject of her majesty, she seemed to get on well with her grandson Prince William standing beside her on Saturday.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Driftwood, British born = born in Britain. Our president born in Britain? Even you weren’t born in Britain. Beir ar do chiall.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    dewi

    having spoken ill of your mama as a hooker my compliments to your sister for her sense of fair play. There was serious generosity of spirit inside the stadium and in Cardiff in general for the Irish win.

    re. Welsh v Irish singing.

    I was deeply perturbed and disappointed that a song celebrating the knifing to death of female partner – for playing away from home – should be given pride of place in the stadium before the game. We Irish have a song called “Welah Welah Waile”(?) which is about stabbing a baby in the head and we would not dream of playing that before our international matches.Shame.

  • janeymac

    “I think you would see whats “objectionable” if they had played GSTQ at Ravenhill and flown the union jack. Personally, I would seriously struggle with that.”

    Anyone think of using both anthems (GSTQ & AnaB) with both anthems & both flags flying in Ravenhill for the Italian game?

    Up to a couple of years ago, Irish born players had to stand for GSTQ & UJ for the British Lions. I’ve heard Neil Francis say that it didn’t bother the players too much. Think it was Keith Wood that made a bit of a fuss about that.

    Brian Carney (now with Munster Rugby) played for the GB Rugby League team (not even a nod to Ireland in the title). He actually got a huge amount of flack for not wanting pose for official photos with the UJ draped around him.

    Far more interesting though, is the comments in Anthony Foley about playing along side Davy Tweed in his memoir … despite the UVF tatoo on his ankle, he always looked out for his team mates!

  • Driftwood

    Pancho
    Of course i should have said born in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which, as you know, is a foreign country from the Irish republic. She is still-technically- a foreigner. Though i’m sure queenie and her both enjoy EastEnders, unlike Richard Walsh.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    janeymac

    “Up to a couple of years ago, Irish born players had to stand for GSTQ & UJ for the British Lions”

    That is nonsense.

    re. Brian Carney – there is no comparison between playing for your adopted country and listening to their anthem and listening to a ‘foreign’ anthem whilst playing for your own.

  • Yeah, just love to see the Ulster players keep their mouths firmly clamped to ‘The Soldiers song’.

    As they often do when “Ireland’s Call” is being played too. It’s not compulsory for players to sing the anthem, remember.

  • earnan

    I would not stand for GSTQ

  • USA

    Driftwood,
    You really are an arsehole, but at least you are consistent about it.

  • The Spectator

    Sammy McNally

    Actually, when Brian Carney first played for the RL Lions it was referred to as the “Great Britain and Ireland Lions”. That only changed in the last set of internationals before the recent world cup, when it reverted to the much older “Great Britain”.

    Not that in reality it made a HUGE difference, since Carney was the first born Irishman to so play for many years – (Barry McDermott and Terry O’Conner being adopted sons, and dual nationals).

  • Driftwood

    USA
    Thanks!!
    My wife thinks i’m inconsistent.
    Do you have an opinion of Richard ‘Che’ Walsh?
    I absolutely loved his appearance on TV tonight.
    Next week, The Black and white minstrel show.

  • Secret Squirrel

    Driftwood:
    I’m not aware of any ‘murders’ carried out by the army here.

    The Army was wrong to allow two soldiers convicted of murdering a Belfast teenager back into its ranks, according to a military watchdog……

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3850831.stm

  • Phew! 114 comments on a T-shirt. Not as many as we’ve sold mind.

    The £5 off offer continues until Monday for all those not sufficiently offended by the flag we’ve chosen.

    What would perhaps help matters is if first Ireland split their home games between Dublin and stadia north of the border. The failure to do so is probably the biggest single cause of any confusion in terms of the team’s status and flag.

    And secondly if the IRFU used its clot to ensure all broadcasters, sponsors, media used the 4 Provinces Flag to represent the team.

    Given the IRFU’s failure on both counts its hardly surprising our choice of flag on the T-shirt.

    http://www.philosphyfootball.com

  • Henry94

    fin

    Considering the Irish Tricolour was specifically designed to represent both traditions on the island its strange that people find issues with it.

    If the national flag was green and the IRFU introduced the tricolour to represent both traditions there would be the same uproar but people would be on different sides.

  • dub

    it was sammy etc..

    your point about gstq at ravenhill is very uncomfortable for me.

    you have changed my mind. one anthem: ireland’s call at all matches.

    on official emblem, irfu, four provinces whatevever.

    And fans can bring tricolours and ni govt standards if they want but should be encouraged to bring the green flags we have seen so much in abundance recently.

  • Skintown Lad

    People are making this more complicated than it actually is. It’s got nothing to do with ‘Northerners’ taking offence at the tricolour per se. Some people from Northern Ireland who support the Ireland rugby team just don’t really feel that the tricolour represents them. I don’t think that is a very contentious point. It is the national flag for a constitional entity in which they do not live. It leaves them feeling a bit left out or, worse, that the contribution of players like Stephen Ferris is just assumed to be made in favour of that constitutional entity alone. Instead, Ireland rugby-supporting people from Northern Ireland are looking for a more inclusive approach. They’d like to see a new flag that represents everybody. The fact that the tricolour has come to represent what Joe/Josephine public see as representing the Ireland rugby team is precisely because people from Northern Ireland who support the all-Ireland rugby team have shied away from being too noisy about it, lest they be seen as trouble makers. That doesn’t give anyone an excuse to perpetuate that unfortunate state of affairs by continuing to use the tricolour to represent the Ireland rugby team (including Brian O’Driscoll). I feel exactly the same about people waving Union Jacks or ‘Northern Ireland flags’ at Ulster games, or people waving English flags in support of Great Britain. It leaves people out, which is contrary to what sport is supposed to achieve.

    As a side point, waving a tricolour in support of the Northern Ireland football team would just be slightly weird. Nationalists are of course welcome to support Northern Ireland, but to do this using a symbol that expresses their aspiration (albeit a valid one) that Northern Ireland did not actually exist is just, well…doesn’t really work.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Irish Nationalists feel aggrieved with the Union flag while Ulster Unionists feel aggrieved with the Tri-Colour.

    The difference however with the two flags is that the Tri-colour of the Irish Republic represents (or should) an egalitarian society where everyone is equal. The British folk of Ireland have equal say in matters, their civil and religious rights upheld. That’s what the Orange portion of the Irish flag decrees for the Irish Republic. (But of course the IRA and the present half-wit dissidents have sullied the flag by murdering members of the British Unionist people).

    Where as the Union flag supposedly represents a ‘happy family’…a union of all the nations of the ‘British Isles’, where everyone is supposedly equal too and have a fair say in matters to the Union, but it’s not the case either and never was in the Anglocentric Union, where once Poor Papist Paddy (sniffle) constantly got the British boot up his arse. London is the engine room, English matters come first and foremost. The provincial parts of the UK matter less.

    But, at least Unionists would have a far more greater say in the running of Ireland than they do within the UK, and that’s the difference…however let’s not forget the playing of the old “Orange Card” in the past when it suited the Tory Party.

    BTW, If only we had had some of that stoic and sober opinion of the Unionists in the running of the Celtic Tiger in the hey days when we needed it. We may have not got into such a financial mess.

  • Skintown Lad

    I just picked up on one comment above from Greenflag-

    “How can such a small island have two anthems ?”

    If you need to ask that question, it kind of invalidates any other contribution you make to this thread.

  • Diluted Orange

    [i]”Cannot see why 2 anthems and 2 flags in Dublin not good enough. Neutrality at all times can just be a form of political correctness.”[/i]

    Eh, 1 flag is the Republic of Ireland’s flag – the other, you would think, would be the flag of Northern Ireland, or at least the only one recognised as being Northern Irish, the Ulster Banner.

    Instead we have a cop-out – the 9 county Ulster flag is used to represent us Northerners because someone in the IRFU just can’t stand the thought of giving the state of Northern Ireland equal footing to the RoI when promoting an all-Ireland forum. The state can’t be seen to actually exist. This means that effectively 3 counties are represented twice by the flags on show, given the overlap between Ulster and the NI/RoI border. How ridiculous!

    Secondly, 1 anthem is the RoI’s anthem, the other anthem, you would think, for reasons of political parity, would be ‘God Save the Queen’, the anthem of Northern Ireland. Instead we have ‘Ireland’s Call’, a song penned as a cross-community, all-Ireland ditty.

    If you don’t want ‘political correctness’ ruining the spectacle then I would think an eclectic mix of Unionist/Nationalist symbols would be far more inclusive than the current Nationalist/Half-hearted Sop to Unionist-Nationalist Unity mixture which we currently endure.

    It seems stooping to political correctness is only an issue when discussing the inclusion of Unionist symbols on an all-Ireland basis. And every time a Unionist complains they get the same staid, condescending response – [i]” but you see that little bit of Orange in the Tricolour, that represents you! – now run off and be happy that we’ve at least afforded you that little crumb of comfort.”[/i] I’m sorry but the intended symbolism of the flag somehow goes over our heads a little when 99% of the times a Unionist encounters a Tricolour it is not in the spirit of ‘Green-Orange’ utopia but one of confrontation and aggression. Much like when a Nationalist encounters a Union Jack. Surely, this simple fact, of Unionist alienation via the Tricolour, cannot be beyond most thinking Nationalist’s comprehension?

    You see when you walk down a street in Northern Ireland, depending on where you are, you will most likely see either a Union Jack or a Tricolour, flying from a lamp-post nearby. Like it or not, both symbols are Irish (although only 1 is exclusively so) but only 1 currently gets a look in with regards to all-Ireland matters. This is what slightly aggrieves Unionists.

    From my own perspective, I would rather see the 4 provinces flag flown only and ‘Ireland’s Call’ played exclusively at all rugby games, I don’t see the need for either the Tricolour or the Union Jack to be there. And personally, if the t-shirt highlighted had not shown the tricolour or at least combined it with the Ulster Banner, I would have bought one. As it looks currently I won’t – and I suspect that the recurring feeling of detachment from all things ‘Irish’, which has struck me yet again, will be replicated amongst 95% or so of Unionists in NI.

    So it is a bigmarketing faux-pas in my eyes, especially when you consider that rugby north of the border is still very much a Unionist dominated sport.

  • John East Belfast

    Actually we have probably got ourselves in a fuss over nothing about this.

    ie if this t shirt was just the best way of making money out of the Grand Slam as per Mr Perryman then that is his business

    – although I would challenge the notion that there is a greater proportionate rugby supporting public in the ROI than NI.
    – anyhow what he should have done was do another one for Northern consumption and he would probably have shifted a few thens of thousands more
    – they probably would have become collectors items and reflecting the divided nature of Ireland at the time of this Grand Slam – and like the next one in another 50 years.

    However the key question of whether this is worthy of a Slugger discussion is did this T Shirt require and was given any kind of IRFU backing ??

    Mr Perryman – did you have to clear this design with IRFU ?

  • janeymac

    Sammy

    Which part is nonesense – that Neil Francis was born in Dublin, so he is Irish (of the Republic of Ireland variety, perhaps?). He has declared on tv (Q&A to be exact) that it wasn’t a big problem for most players to stand for anyone’s anthem in a similar fashion as to what the NI born players have to do at the moment now.

    I think it is far worse to expect any player to play rugby with someone who openly supports a terrorist organisation that was responsible for the Dublin bombings that killed innocent people one mile away from where they were playing rugby.

    It was the British Lions until 2001 (when Keith Wood made a fuss). Have you seen any of the documentary of ‘Living with the Lions’ in 1997 (great documentary actually) and the proliferation of UJs everywhere? At the moment, Planet Rugby in a video on their website actually refer to them as the ‘British Lions’, but we won’t get in a lather over that, despite the fact that this team will be more than likely captained by an Irishman from the republic.

    Some background info on the Lions for you:
    The team historically used the name British Isles before the use of the term “British” became increasingly controversial. On their 1950 tour of New Zealand and Australia they also adopted the nickname British Lions, first used by journalists on the 1924 South African tour,[1] after the lion emblem on their jerseys and ties. Since the 2001 tour of Australia they have used the name British and Irish Lions. The team adopted this latest name to take account of the fact that the Republic of Ireland has not formed a part of the UK since 1922; in addition nationalists in most parts of Ireland object to any implication of “Britishness”.[citation needed] Many simply refer to the team as the Lions.[citation needed]

    As the Lions do not represent a single nation-state, they do not have a national anthem. For the 2005 tour to New Zealand the Lions management specially commissioned a song, “The Power of Four”, although it met with little support amongst Lions fans at the matches, and even the players seemed not to know the words. The status of the song on future tours remains uncertain.

    The Lions’ badge is made up of the symbols of the four Home Unions. The Lions first wore their traditional colours on the 1930 tour: red jerseys, white shorts, blue socks and green stocking-tops, to represent each of the four represented Unions (Wales, England, Scotland and Ireland respectively).

  • janeymac

    Sammy
    “re. Brian Carney – there is no comparison between playing for your adopted country and listening to their anthem and listening to a ‘foreign’ anthem whilst playing for your own.”

    You clearly have no idea what you are talking about here. Brian Carney was born in Ireland, played Rugby Union & Rugby League for Ireland. He has not adopted any other country. The GB League Team is the equivalent of the B&I Lions. He stood respectfully for GSTQ & UJ for games, but politely declined to get himself photographed with a UJ draped around him. He was hounded in the British media for that.

    At least we don’t hound NI born players to actually sing and get themselves photographed with the tricolour.

  • janeymac

    Notice the tremendous amount of recognition that Ireland gets with the B&I Lions – the tops of the socks are green! LOL.

  • Driftwood

    The B(& I)Lions badge depicts the lion as used by the England football and cricket teams atop the badge. just so everyone knows who is really Top cat in the British Isles.

  • Lyle Langley

    ” the state of Northern Ireland”

    Ain’t no such state and there never were.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “The B(& I)Lions badge depicts the lion as used by the England football and cricket teams atop the badge. just so everyone knows who is really Top cat in the British Isles.”

    Oh indeed Driftwood….and we have always known that, down through the ages. For the “Top cat” has always insisted on letting us know too of who the big boy is with the muscle and the real toys of war…..much to your delight too I expect?

    One of the reasons why we like having our own autonmy now here in the Republic of Ireland. We ain’t the big cats mice anymore.

  • BonarLaw

    “We ain’t the big cats mice anymore.”

    Tell that to the fat cats in Brussels and Frankfurt who respect your democracy so much they are insisting on re-running a referendum to get the result they want. Autonmy (sic) my arse.

  • George

    Driftwood,
    “My point was that i doubt Eddie gave a toss about the flag but, like Blair Mayne, most Regent House boys consider themselves ‘british’.”

    That’s what you think Eddie thinks while this is what Eddie actually thinks:

    “But at the end of the day, I’m Irish. I mean, I’ve got a British passport, but if you’re from Ireland, north or south, you’re Irish. And ‘British’ is. . . such a nondescript thing, isn’t it?”

    Quite.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Tell that to the fat cats in Brussels and Frankfurt who respect your democracy so much they are insisting on re-running a referendum to get the result they want. Autonmy (sic) my arse.”

    Nope, we have our autonomy. The people can still vote NO.

  • Flag Design Class

    Now Children,

    Perhaps, as a stress release exercise for all of you who are getting hot under the collar, we could come up with designs for an island flag? I don’t know if we could display the designs here, but it might be an idea? usual provisio of no paramilitary symbols/mottos. what say you Mick?

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Sorted….

    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Four_Provinces_of_Ireland_Flag.svg

    (…..and the British royal standard is kinda like it too…ie the quadrant.)

  • Gréagoir O Frainclín

    I see that Brian O’Driscoll has been named player of the 6 nations tournament. No doubt the Irishman will be given the captaincy of the “British” Lions.

    BTW, after winning the whole damn thing finally after all these years I see that Kevin Myers in this weeks Indo demeans the value of tournament as a sporting event. What a cunt!

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/almost-noone-else-gives-a-damn-about-grand-slam-1683618.html

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done

    Gragoir,
    Kevin Myers is a national treasue – hardly ever agree with him but he has his excellent provocative writing off to a tee.

    Janneymac
    You asked what was nonsense in what you said – as I pointed out in the actual post your statement below.

    “Up to a couple of years ago, Irish born players had to stand for GSTQ & UJ for the British Lions”

    To back this up you mention the “proliferation of UJs everywhere” but this is clearly NOT the same as having the UJ representing the team.

    re. Brian Carney
    “The GB League Team is the equivalent of the B&I Lions. He stood respectfully for GSTQ & UJ for games”,

    More nonsense – Irish players do NOT have to stand for GSTQ when playing for the Irish (and British) Lions.

    re. Planet Rugby
    “At the moment, Planet Rugby in a video on their website actually refer to them as the ‘British Lions’.” Many people make this mistake – including the RTE website last year – dont forget there are a lot of stupid people out there –
    your own comments are hardly classic examples of accuracy.

  • redhanded

    The shirt doesn’t contain any trademarked IRFU logos and isn’t made by any of the IRFU official kit suppliers that are licensed to use the logos.

    The shirt is something that has been rushed out quickly by someone who wants to cash in on the grand slam so the flag on the shirt won’t have been high on their priorities.

  • redhanded

    The shirt doesn’t contain any trademarked IRFU logos and isn’t made by any of the IRFU official kit suppliers that are licensed to use the logos.

    The shirt is something that has been rushed out quickly by someone who wants to cash in on the grand slam so the flag on the shirt won’t have been high on their priorities.