Slán go fóill

After bursting onto the political scene in 1985 under Des O’Malley’s leadership and having been part of coalition government at Leinster House for much of the following period, the Progressive Democrats have finally called it a day after their recent disastrous electoral performance.

  • Late and unlamented. Excellent.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Break open a cask of rum.Let’s dance on their grave.

  • An Lochlannach

    This was described a ‘mass meeting’ in some media outlets. I suppose everything’s relative.

  • Maybe those media outlets meant a funeral mass 🙂

  • Ri Na Deise

    Good Riddance to bad rubbish!

  • Dave

    Without the free market, pro-business, deregulation and low-tax policies of the PDs, there would have been no Celtic Tiger. Instead you’d have a continuation of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail trying to out-spend and out-tax each other in order to bribe the gullible voters with ‘freebies’ at the national expense. This party was made up of the only type of patriots that Ireland needs: economic patriots. The greatest party of them all – small but perfectly formed. RIP, and thanks for the prosperity.

  • Ri Na Deise

    The chattering classes will miss them dearly….

  • james connolly

    Wonderful – the PDs helped cause the credit crunch with their rabid and reckless Thatcherism, and now it’s killed them. Not that FF and FG are any better, of course.

  • joeCanuck

    Mark,

    Where do you think the activists in that party go?

  • Harry Flashman

    Yez would still have mass unemployment, huge emigration, despair, hopelessness and Charlie Haughey style endemic corruption if it hadn’t been for the PD’s but sure begrudgery was always the finest art in Ireland.

  • Harry,

    How did they end the corruption? It was Tomás Mac Giolla who brought the Goodman thing to light with questions in the Dáil, and then the ball got rolling, with the media finally exposing what many had known all along.

    As for the rest, the basic economic strategy had been in place for decades. What significant factor did they alter? They certainly made the south a nastier place (remember Mary Harney’s lament that the Irish could be like the people of Singapore, poor but happy?) but I’m not really sure they made it much better.

    Joe,

    Some of the activists will return to Fianna Fáil, whence they came, some will probably go to Fine Gael, while the rest will most likely become inactive.

  • Ri Na Deise

    Both main parties in the south are as corrupt as one another.

    We can only live in hope that one day the ordinary working man will realise this and react accordingly.

  • indeed

    Have to agree with Garibaldy. Lot of things are claimed for the PD’s for wjich evidence is never presented. It is not clear to me what the PD’s actually delivered. Mary Harney recieves a lot of priase as a hard workeer with a lot of achievements under her belt. Other than smokeless fuel in Dublin, I can’t think of one. Any suggestions? Of course we could mention the HSE and co-location!

  • Tazia Doll

    I was fed up with the entire Irish Air Force being deployed to open fish and chip shops or off licences, or whatever.

    My major run-in with Harney was the DETE not checking ages of the girls they were turning over to criminals,

    I say criminals, because almost, the entire heap of lap dancing clubs were raided, or arrested, or convicted, of every crime under the sun.

    “Yez would still have mass unemployment, huge emigration, despair, hopelessness and Charlie Haughey style endemic corruption if it hadn’t been for the PD’s but sure begrudgery was always the finest art in Ireland”

    Well, I got a call ( from Fianna Fail) and was asked to stall US activism re: PDs.

    Later, we had a meeting and they agreed to raid all the clubs in one night.

    That is my recollection, I definitely got a call from FF on the issue of going easy on Mary Harney and I think that was before McDowell agreed to do the raids.

    They are all the same.

    Not just the Irish, Jeepers, when Gary Glitter was being wheeled out as a ‘false allegation’ in tandem with the NASUWT’s flagship case,

    I was asking Brit politicos when somebody would get some self-respect and cry ‘enough is enough’.

    And bring the NASUWT train wreck to a stop.

    It was the same with HArney, we had to settle for a ‘suspended’ DETE scheme in September, 2002, with it quietly dropped December 2002, with the promise of nationwide raids later.

    My demand ‘fix it now’. Similarly, all those years ago with the NASUWT, I said ‘fix it now’, but no, prominent people were even granting Gary Glitter’ falsely accused status.

    Which was only the case if one accepted NASUWT definitions. I’m single focus on the idea of ‘corruption’ because

    I don’t do property deals, but I did do Ukrainian girls paying three grand for a WP-UK (Sheffield) permit, that’s major organized crime. Where was that, it was Ballymoney.

    What did the NIO, PSNI, or Nuala do for me?

    Nothing, NI was just like the 26C, completely corrupt, within the peek of my own personal window.

    Tazia

  • Tazia Doll

    Clarification

    Misleading syntax alert!

    UK immigration was completely bejabbers, I’m saying that.

    the NIO, PSNI, Nuala O’Loan, the system was designed to be tamper-proof in relation to agencies external to the UKIS/WP function. So I had some sympathy with PSNI and Police Ombudsman

    ( of course the public thought the PSNI was allowed to do organized crime, that wasn’t the case, the PSNI were not allowed to do racketeering relating to the sector based scheme run out of Sheffield)

    In fairness to the PSNI and Nuala, they were in the same boat re: work permit crime as I was, the PSNI were not allowed to get involved.

    With the DETE and Mary Harney, on the other hand, it was different, the DETE was the *direct* problem.

    I have bad feelings towards the PDs, and I refused to be grateful for Operation Quest,

    I took delight in going to the media when a house down the road from McDowell’s was found to be bursting at the seams with lap-dancers.

    I might have even upped the number to forty, it was circa 20 if memory serves.

    That last post wasn’t an allegation against the PSNI and Nuala O’Loan, apologies for syntax.

    Tazia

  • Dave

    “Wonderful – the PDs helped cause the credit crunch with their rabid and reckless Thatcherism, and now it’s killed them. Not that FF and FG are any better, of course.”

    Err, no. Ireland does not have sovereignty over its monetary policy. Ergo, it has no control over interest rates, credit supply, etc, and no regulatory ability to influence its economy in that direction..

    I agree that reckless monetary policy that was designed to stimulate consumer spending by flooding the economy with cheap credit has now destroyed Ireland’s economy, but you have to pin the blame for that on the European Central Bank, not the Irish Central Bank.

    If we did not join the Eurozone, we would not have wrecked our economy. You have Fianna Fail’s Europhilia to thank for that disastrous decision.

  • Modernist

    “Both main parties in the south are as corrupt as one another.

    We can only live in hope that one day the ordinary working man will realise this and react accordingly. ”

    I concur with that Rí na Déise. The only problem is people elect politicians by which politician does them the best favours but not on their competence. Its jobs for the boys all round while “Rome burns” but hey at least theyre not sending the states gunmen thousands of miles away to invade another sovereign nation or selling weapons to corrupt regimes

  • Tazia Doll

    Civil servants are the tyrants, they rarely cough to making a dogs breakfast etc. I have seen stuff given to ministers,

    which is palpably untrue and AT THAT POINT, the fact the miniater is a complete patsy, comes into play.

    All my real world examples tend to be immigration etc. or dfes or dwp or dete or even deni

    I’ve even spoken to civil servants who have admitted making eejits out of their boss. I have met press officers I wouldn’t trust to feed the ducks

    The CEOP one toldme that CEOP had LEGAL ADVICE that stopped CEOP using the ‘child pornography’ expression.

    Despite optional UN protocols and a raft of legislation defining CP as a thing. If you phone up CEOP and ask them if the UN is wrong, they’ll say ‘yes’.

    Three cheers for Jim Gamble

    That’s an example of clowns running the show.

  • jone

    Tazia you’re not by any chance Greg Carlin after a few drinks?

  • Philip

    They traded principles for power: tht’s why they now have neither.

  • An Lochlannach

    Yez would still have mass unemployment, huge emigration, despair, hopelessness and Charlie Haughey style endemic corruption if it hadn’t been for the PD’s…

    Yeah, they played a blinder of the O’Flahery appointment to the European Central Bank.

  • Comrade Stalin

    Dave:

    If we did not join the Eurozone, we would not have wrecked our economy. You have Fianna Fail’s Europhilia to thank for that disastrous decision.

    Yes. The UK’s independence from the eurozone was clearly the main reason why the UK has managed to maintain it’s prosperity and avoid recession and collapses in it’s banking sector.

  • Greenflag

    Dave ,

    ‘If we did not join the Eurozone, we would not have wrecked our economy.’

    Right we’d have been like Iceland with it’s full ‘sovereignty ‘ and would have allowed the neo conservative Wall St merchants to hang us separately on the same tree as our Icelandic ‘cousins’ 🙁

    You have Fianna Fail’s Europhilia to thank.

    Saved us from the worst more likely .

    Wonder if the Americans will now ‘nationalise ‘ General Motors who are ‘bleeding ‘ at the rate of a billion dollars a month with 8 months to B day ( bankruptcy ).

    And I read that Mr Bernanke is now fighting the economic crisis not with your favoured ‘higher ‘ interest rates but with lower ones ?

    Your Mr Taylor would not approve eh ?

  • Greenflag

    Dave .

    ‘but you have to pin the blame for that on the European Central Bank, not the Irish Central Bank.’

    So the US Federal Reserve determined ‘interest rates’ do not effect ECB rates ?. They can’t be too far apart otherwise money will flood out of the EU to the USA or vice versa .

    Your anti EU bias is showing but then that’s nothing new eh ?

    Won’t stop Iceland or Serbia from joining the EU though 🙂

  • Shirley McGuffin

    Speaking of Tomas MacGiolla, is there any chance of gettng rid of the “reformed” terrorists of OIRA?

  • Frank Ross

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magilla_Gorilla
    disappeared from RTÉ screens when the Workers Party were first elected to the Dail.

  • The Third Policeman

    Surely it must be extremely rare for a political party in a stable country to wrap itself up while actually being part of the government. Can anyone think of any other example when this has happened?

  • Dave

    “Yes. The UK’s independence from the eurozone was clearly the main reason why the UK has managed to maintain it’s prosperity and avoid recession and collapses in it’s banking sector.” – Comrade Stalin

    Why do I even need to point out your complete ignorance of monetary policy and its importance in the economy when you manage to do that unaided?

    The US Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, and the European Central Bank all have autonomy over monetary policy. The reason, simpleton, that you see similar results of in the banking system in all three regions is because they all implemented similar monetary policy. The Federal Reserve used monetary policy to promote economic growth on the demand-side by supplying consumers with cheap credit. They made the fatal mistake of keeping interest rates too low for too long. The ECB followed the policy of the Federal Reserve in order for its slow-growing single economy to keep parity with growth in the US, and the Bank of England also followed the same flawed monetary policy in order for the UK’s economy to keep parity with the EU.

    You erroneously conclude that the shared outcome of shared monetary policies means that monetary policy is irrelevant to monetary systems and its effect on the economy.

    Do you even know what monetary policy means? Do you know that it is a critical tool for controlling the economy? Do you know that whoever controls monetary policy controls the economy? Do you know what happens when the EU’s uses monetary policy to influence the economy in one direction and the government wants to influence it in another direction? What happens is that the government avoids the conflict by steering its economy in the direction that it is steered by those who control its monetary policy. If that monetary policy is used to promote demand for purchases by flooding the economy with cheap credit, then that is the policy that the government must follow. As that was the policy of the EU’s ECB, that is why you now see massive consumer debt in the economy and the resultant credit crunch.

    As Davy, a division of the Bank of Ireland, pointed out, Ireland’s interest rates should have been set at 6% under the Taylor Rule used by the Irish Central Bank to meet the needs and underlying dynamics of the Irish economy at a time when the ECB set them at 2%. What do you think the result is when you set interest rates at an inappropriate rate, using ‘one-size-fits-all’ monetary policies proffered by the EU with no regard to the underlying dynamics of the Irish economy will be? Look around you for the results: bubbles and bust – and massive debts.

    Why don’t you and Greenflag do learn a little about monetary policy rather than continuously talking out of orifices that you normally wipe (assuming that either of you two dunces are capable such basic hygiene).

  • “Do you know that whoever controls monetary policy controls the economy?”

    I thought that was the market in your eyes Dave.

    BTW Dave, can you think of any economies who have been protected from the current crisis by independence of monetary policy? I can think of some whose banking systems have been protected by regulation but none protected by monetary policy.

  • Tazia Doll

    “Tazia you’re not by any chance Greg Carlin after a few drinks?”

    Yvette Doll, after none, I’m working through a cross-dressing family of sex lib delinquents, you can blame Amnesty NI,

    I was bombarded by letters and e-mails from hundreds of fans after Gay Pride 08, and one offer of an album deal, and two radio shows.

    Be my, be my Yvette Doll!

    Sadly one was in Sweden and the other in New York City. I’m still holding out for Brand’s old job, no dice yet from the BBC.

    Tazia

  • Tazia Doll

    ‘Surely it must be extremely rare for a political party in a stable country to wrap itself up while actually being part of the government. Can anyone think of any other example when this has happened?’

    Caligula’s horse begged the day off from the Senate.

  • Dave

    Garibaldy, you are confusing systemic risk with monetary policies. Systemic risk relates to the degree and manner that a problem in one sector or actor of a system is spread to another within an interlinked system, endangering the whole system, e.g. mortgages repackaged as securities helped to spread risk from subprime lending to banks that traded in securities but didn’t supply mortgages.

    It remains true that monetary policy controls, err, the monetary system. It is also true that Ireland’s monetary policy is controlled by the ECB. It also remains true that the monetary policy of the EU’s ECB was to flood the economy with cheap credit in order to promote economic growth by promoting consumer spending. This gave rise to, for example, rapid house price inflation as consumers became property speculators. It didn’t matter that 320,000 of these properties are now vacant and that they were vacant at the boom because buyers didn’t need tenants in order to pay a cheap mortgage – they could simply buy the property to sell it on at a profit. It does, however, matter that Ireland wasted the years since joining the Eurozone creating an entrepreneurial class who now own vacant properties because this class should have investing in actual wealth-creation enterprises in the economy instead of this dismal farce as promoted by the monetary policy of the ECB.

    Since monetary policy is a primary tool for controlling the economy, a government must predicate its other policies to support it in order to avoid a situation whereby monetary policy is influencing the economy in one direction and the government is influencing it in the other. Folks have little clue how important monetary policy is, and the government has no intention of telling them lest they cop on that the EU has controlled the Irish economy for the best part of a decade and has now turned a solid growth economy into a boom-and-bust economy.

    “Monetary policy is the process by which the government, central bank, or monetary authority of a country controls (i) the supply of money, (ii) availability of money, and (iii) cost of money or rate of interest, in order to attain a set of objectives oriented towards the growth and stability of the economy.[1] Monetary theory provides insight into how to craft optimal monetary policy.”

  • RepublicanStones

    I hope Liz O’Donnell gets a job on the telly. She is a milf. As regards the P(osh)D(4)’s, I suppose there is no chance of another ‘Rumble in Ranelagh’ before they wrap up.

  • Dave,

    I find that too monocausal an explanation. Frankly, such was the dependence on foreign money and such was the extent to which the south was an open economy that there was little Dublin could do to avoid being badly hit by the current crisis.

    I agree that the encouragement of speculation was a mistake, as was the failure to develop indigenous industries but again these were government policy before the entry into the Eurozone. One need only look at the financial scandals to see that the boom in housebuilding was facilitated by the government for reasons a lot more native than the ECB.

  • runciter

    The US Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, and the European Central Bank all have autonomy over monetary policy. The reason, simpleton, that you see similar results of in the banking system in all three regions is because they all implemented similar monetary policy.

    I thought you were claiming that the US banking crisis was triggered by the government forcing Fannie and Freddie into sub-prime mortgage deals? Now you’re saying it was all down to monetary policy?

    Anyway, it seems clear that you can’t name “any economies who have been protected from the current crisis by independence of monetary policy”.

    Which suggests that that Ireland wouldn’t have been protected by being outside the Eurozone either.

  • Desmond O’Malley

    Ni Neart go Cur Le Chéile

  • “Surely it must be extremely rare for a political party in a stable country to wrap itself up while actually being part of the government. Can anyone think of any other example when this has happened?”

    Yes – three, and they were all called National Labour!

    The Australian National Labor Party was formed in November 1916 when the Labor Party split over conscription. Prime Minister Billy Hughes and others left Labor and formed a coalition with the Commonwealth Liberal Party. After about three months they merged to form the Nationalist Party. (The Australian right has a long history of mergers but I’d see the majority party as the main continuation.) At the federal level National Labor never had time to establish an organisation, although at the state level they did operate as a separate party in coalition in Western Australia until 1924, when post defeat they merged into the Nationalists.

    The British National Labour Party was formed in 1931 when the Second Labour Government collapsed over a financial crisis and Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald emerged as the head of a National Government, soon repudiated by the Labour Party. The National Government lasted until 1940 when it was succeeded by Churchill’s all party coalition. However National Labour over time lost its raison d’etre through deaths, moves abroad, departures and scandals, and what was left of the party was little more than a collection of people who’d never had very strong roots (or in the case of Harold Nicolson, any) in the Labour Party to start with. Just before the 1945 general election they took the decision to dissolve. However whilst they were par of the governing parties I’m not sure if they still had any members in ministerial office by 1945. And one could argue that because of the circumstances of the fall of the National Government in 1940 and the all-party national unity coalition, then National Labour was effectively simultaneously in government and the wilderness.

    The Irish National Labour Party was a breakaway from the Labour Party formed in 1944 due to splits over alleged communist infiltration and the longrunning feud between William X. O’Brien and James Larkin. O’Brien retired in 1946 and Larkin died in 1947, removing a key barrier. Both parties served in the 1948-1951 Inter-Party Government and reunified in 1950.