Hutton attacks protestors

The new Defence minister, John Hutton, has praised the idea of homecoming parades (wanting more of them) and criticised those who ‘jeer’ at the returning troops:

“The public loves to see guys on parade. I would like to see more,” he says. What about bystanders who jeer? “Those kind of cretins are going to be out and about but they don’t represent the public,” he says scornfully. “We shouldn’t be afraid to take those people on.”

  • kensei

    Yes, I’m sure he had Irish Nationalists in mind when he said it, and how much they *love* the parades

    :rolleyes:

  • My thoughts entirely, kensei. But some people will fix on anything at all to try to twist it into a criticism of nationalism. Rather pathetic, I think.

  • OC

    When RoI troops return home from a mission, do they have a parade? If so, how do these turn out?

    Does the RoI army ever participate in public parades? If so, how do these turn out?

  • When RoI troops return home from a mission, do they have a parade? If so, how do these turn out?

    Well, for one, the “RoI” army has not been involved in either unpopular foreign wars, or unpopular repression of its ‘own’ people, so if they have some kind of parade it would be non-contentious. Whatever they do do, though, they do within the confines of their barracks.

    Does the RoI army ever participate in public parades? If so, how do these turn out?

    Yes, St Patrick’s Day parade in Dublin. It turns out very well. In undivided societies these things usually do.

  • Driftwood

    John Hutton is simply speaking for the vast majority of normal people throughout the United Kingdom. Including every civilised person in Northern Ireland.

  • fin

    I believe Huttons comment are for a wider audience than NI, there has been a large debate in GB around this, the anti-war movement is quite large, and the general public really didn’t care, a few stories came into the media around service personnel been told not to wear their uniforms in public as they were drawing abuse from teens and the like, since then there have been parades at football games etc,
    The problem in GB is the armed forces have a reputation for causing trouble, hence there have been stories of returning soldiers been refused accommadation in hotels, or been chucked of trains for having the wrong ticket.
    Having lived near Aldershot, yes, squaddies can be bad news and are generally barred from all pubs. So do you organise a parade for squaddies and then refuse them beer, I think thesquaddies would prefer beer!

  • Spy in the camp

    Surprising no one has picked up on the use of an Irish child to salute the “Heros” on X-factor. I’d have thought Sinn Fein would be boycotting the programme or demanding Owen’s withdrawal. At least McElduff should have been encouraging the Irish community not to vote for him in this clearly political role!! Instead Barry’s writting him letters of encouragement

  • RepublicanStones

    “Those kind of cretins are going to be out and about but they don’t represent the public”

    Right so members of the public don’t represent the public.

  • I myself am indifferent to these parades(mind you they are not at my door).

    I think people in general should be very wary of goverments manipulating these events and portraying them as support for their policies.
    You see I don’t trust politicians(mostly slippery customers)maybe thats why I would not allow my sons or daughter to be in their care in the first place.

  • Rory

    Feeling down and rejected?

    Maybe it’s because you are considered a bit of an oddball.

    Don’t you wish that you too could be ‘normal’?

    Do you sometimes feel excluded, left outside the pale?

    Do people treat you as if perhaps you are not a ‘civilised person’?

    Don’t worry. At last help as at hand. A new scientific breakthrough means that by taking our simple one-step course you too can become ‘normal’ and ‘civilised’ in one easy-to-take step.

    Simply learning to say, “I agree with Driftwood”, in answer to any question, guarantees your entry into the world of ‘normal people’ where, especially in N. Ireland, you will be treated as a ‘civilised person’, perhaps even fit to be invited to take tea and scones at Chez Driftwood. Now wouldn’t that be nice?

  • neil

    Right so members of the public don’t represent the public.

    Exactly. Only Oxford educated politicians are representative of the public. And 100% to be trusted, unquestioningly. After all, what possible reason would he have to silence criticism of this just, fair and legal war.

    1000 soldiers dead. 20,000 – 80,000 civilians dead (men, women and children). Think about it.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘Including every civilised person in Northern Ireland.’

    Ahh the old ‘uncivilsed Irish’ slag by the backdoor. Sure Drift after your beloved parade youse can circle the wagons in some barracks and have a snifter of brandy or sherry and condemn the pesky natives for runing your big day…pip, pip, tally-ho, theres a good boy !

  • RepublicanStones

    ruining*

  • disneymicro

    Rory,

    I agree with Driftwood.

  • West Belfast

    I dunno what to make of this ‘homecoming parade’ on Sunday. Not sure how many RIR people call west belfast home. I reckon most of them will have a long drive to their actual home.

    As a republican I dont want them on the streets in this way but its not just my city. Unionists tend to like this type of thing!

    In saying that I dont want eirigi portraying themselves as the conscience of the republican community. They dont represent me – its easy to say no.

    This will be a real test for the PSNI to demonstrate that the rights of everyone are upheld no matter what.

    So – I will not attend the counter demo – I see that as a sign of confidence not a sign of weakness. Its my city also – so to my unionist neighbours – have a lovely day out in our city (is it wrong that I hope it rains cats and dogs?).

  • ggn

    I have been called ‘uncivilised’ on a number of occasions.

    It always left me with a ridiculous grin and a feeling of deep satisfaction.

  • picador

    The use of programs such as X-Factor to spread propaganda for the British Army is frankly nauseating.

    As for John Hutton, I wonder is he going to come over and take us on. I doubt it.

    On this occasion I am proud to be ‘uncivilised’.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    >>The use of programs such as X-Factor to spread propaganda for the British Army is frankly nauseating.< < Agreed, and copied from American idol no doubt. Now I know young Eoghan may not be very politically aware, but surely someone in his family may have raised an objection to supporting the British war machine. Especially after their none too illustrious history in Ireland. >>John Hutton is simply speaking for the vast majority of normal people throughout the United Kingdom. Including every civilised person in Northern Ireland.<< Haven't been around for a while but is this shite normal for you now? Get a grip ffs!

  • picador

    PE,

    What makes it all the more nauseating is the fact that he is only a kid. It is exploitation pure and simple: ‘You want to keep your dream intact, do what you’re bid’. Correct answer – f*** off!

    Still at least the kids support for the heroes of the British Army might impact on the Dungiven block vote, thereby costing Simon Cowell and ITV a few quid in lost revenue on the premium phone lines. I hate these shows anyway.

    Vote for me

  • frank

    Most English councils want nothing to to do with homecoming parades.

    I presume, like me, they see no honour in welcoming home soldiers who slaughter and torture people in faraway shores.

    There is little honour in beating and torturing civilians, striping them and making them simulate sex acts while being photographed by other soldiers.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    >>I hate these shows anyway.<< Great family entertainment though Pic. My wee fella is an Eoghan but the lot of them would like the Dungiven wan anyhow as he is a great wee chanter, and as cool as a cucumber tae boot. I agree with you that reactions in Derry must be mixed to his participation to say the least. It's like a Scot claiming that his favourite goal was Gascoignes against us at Euro 96, imagine how popular he would be. Wait a minute...............I think someone may have already done that in the biggest popularity contest there is.................the tube!

  • Blue Rinse Brigade

    Horseman,

    Just to note that the RoI forces are involved in what is deemed to be an unpopular war in Afghanistan via their presence in the EU forces. Even so, when they come home from theatre I have yet to hear of mass protests in the streets of Dublin.

    Not that I’m surprised of course.

  • Sneakers O’Toole

    Is the Eirigi demo really a “mass protest?” I’m not being rhetorical, I don’t live in NI any more but it’s not the impression I got.

    There *are* protests when the RoI gets involved in these wars, you only have to look at the demonstrations against US planes using Shannon airport.

    There are also protests in Northern Ireland against Northern Catholic affiliations with these wars; e.g. protesters storming the Raytheon building (a company invited to Derry by the SDLP).

    These protests are usually by the same people who make up Eirigi; i.e. republican socialists.

    While there is obviously an element of not wanting “the Brits” parading the streets, some anti war demonstration by lefties was inevitable given what’s been happeing all over the RoI and the UK.

    What *would* be more surprising if there were no protest at all, especially in Belfast. Let’s just hope the day passes quietly and the whole thing’s over and done with soon enough.

  • Rory

    Disneymicro says, “Rory, I agree with Driftwood.”
    So that’s me buggered then.

  • Driftwood

    Rory
    I was merely agreeing with John Huttons view of SF.
    He seems a decent spud. So you don’t agree with him. But he is the democratically elected minister of defence for this country of yours and mine and Prince Owens.. And quite clever also.

  • Steve

    Driftwood

    In the spirit of willowfield gone but not missed

    But he is the democratically elected minister of defence for this country of yours and mine and Prince Owens

    He was never elected minister of defense he was appointed

  • Dave

    [i]“The public loves to see guys on parade. I would like to see more,” he says. What about bystanders who jeer? “Those kind of cretins are going to be out and about but they don’t represent the public,” he says scornfully. “We shouldn’t be afraid to take those people on.” [/i]

    They are the public so they represent the public. What he meant to say (presumably) is that anti-war protestors do not represent the views of the majority of the public. That is a dubious claim since an ICM Research poll for the BBC in 2008 showed that more British people oppose (48%) the war than support (40%) it.

    At any rate, it is not healthy in a democracy that a government minister should oppose the right to protest and encourage others to share his totalitarian views.

  • Dave

    Just to add that even if a clear majority supported the war that that would not be a valid pretext by which to censor the views of the minority.

  • Driftwood

    Steve- Canadian right? How many protest marches have you participated in Manitoba? Given the large Canadian presence in Afghanistan, surely the RCMP allows the good people there to throw petrol bombs at them ‘in a peaceful and dignified manner’?
    Yes I know he was appointed. Minister for Defence, not Defense.

  • Prionsa Eoghan

    Driftwood

    See I wasn’t sure if you were being a ham shank with your ramblings about how those who oppose glorifying the British war machine are not decent or civilized. Then I went to the thread on SF allegedly running from their responsibilities, saw your contribution 10:19 AM this morning and all of a sudden became sure.

    You never used to be like that.

  • Steve

    Driftwood

    There are no or atleast no notable anti-war protests in Canada

    Most Canadians support our military and the war in Afghanistan, but now that casualties are begining to mount the enthusiasm has waned somewaht

    By the way I live in a city with one of the last army bases in Canada and its not unusual to see them practice driving their way through the city in preparation for going over seas. We usually just laugh or feel sorry for the silly git with his head stuck out the turret in -30 weather

    Of course our military has never been used to shoot a percentage of the population off the street for not being “decent people”

    The RCMP is just as popular for the same reason

  • Driftwood

    Prionsa
    That’s because BEFORE I wasn’t as pissed off at SF’s blatant politicising an event that could, and should have been low key and non partisan. Now, it has become a gang war. I have a relative in the RIR and he couldn’t give a shit about our parish pump petty vindictiveness. Re: The comment this morning, well if I could withdraw it I would, but sometimes I hit submit before firing. It was a silly remark and I can’t stand over it.
    Steve, The US army, National Guard, and various state police forces would envy the Canadians. But your military and the RCMP have the same head of state as we do. long may you follow her.

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘should have been low key and non partisan’

    A regiment of the british army marching through the biggest city in the north of Ireland and its possible to be non-partisan??????? Are you even aware of the history and situation of the land in which you dwell?

  • Steve

    Figure heads do as they should which is not figure in the way you govern or head up anything important

    besides its you silly gits that pay for her we just co-opt her for free

    And do you have any idea how much money it would cost to get her wrinkly old ass off all the money and buildings

  • Ri Na Deise

    What happened to de-militarisation?

  • Reader

    Ri Na Deise: What happened to de-militarisation?
    It happened. The GFA specified that the army should be reduced to garrison levels. Given the local population and level of recruitment compared with the rest of the UK, that means a usual garrison level of just a few thousand. Much less than in earlier years.

  • Big Maggie

    “We shouldn’t be afraid to take those people on.”

    No indeed. It’s a lot better than taking people out, as another Ulster regiment was wont to do.

  • Ri Na Deise

    Happen to think the RUC/PSNI are relishing the oppurtunity to test their new taser guns…

  • Dave

    Driftwood, the RIR is a fine regiment who deserve a fine civic reception as a means by which the public can express its appreciation, so the best thing is to go enjoy the RIR parade if that is what you want to express. There are also folks who feel differently and they also have a right to expression. That’s just the way of it. No point getting upset about things you can’t change and that shouldn’t be changed anyway.

  • cynic

    “What happened to de-militarisation?”

    Oh come on. Haven’t you caught on yet that that was just another hollow, meaningless SF slogan.

    Rejoice. In the Agreement we committed that we are all British now and therefore we all should be able to celebrate our troops coming home. Many of them are even from the Republic and look at the money their presence here pumps into our economy.

    Republicans need to relax more and chill out. Look they even wear green camoflage.

  • Beware when politicians start playing patriot games.
    Just be wary of politicians fullstop.

  • Ri Na Deise

    ‘We are all British now’

    Well as a free-stater living oop north I never have been. And I put it that you (unless born over the water) are most certainly not either.

  • OC

    “And I put it that you (unless born over the water) are most certainly not either.”

    Is London-born Paddy Murphy Irish, or British?

  • Ri Na Deise

    London born Paddys in many cases turn out to be the most loathsome and anti-irish of all Ive found.

  • OC

    “London born Paddys in many cases turn out to be the most loathsome and anti-irish of all Ive found.”

    Why? Can you give examples?

  • Ri Na Deise

    You ever been to London?

  • OC

    “You ever been to London?”

    No.

  • kensei

    Driftwood

    That’s because BEFORE I wasn’t as pissed off at SF’s blatant politicising an event that could, and should have been low key and non partisan.

    You can’t have a non partisan partisan event. Even the SDLP voted against this. Nationalists are not keen on the British Army parading around Ireland, and even less keen on paying for it through their rates. Perhaps if it was done during a period of goodwill and mutual understanding, people might have held back. But the DUP’s call for magnanimity was hardly likely to be heard considering their behaviour to this point.

    cynic

    Pretty sure the GFA said I was free to chose my own affiliations, rather than telling me I’m a Brit.