“..the only reception it deserves – a hostile one”

With a ruling due tomorrow on the British Armed Forces parade in Belfast on 2 November and a counter-protest by Sinn Féin, the News Letter points to the anger of some that the Parades Commission has no power to rule on an éirígí organised protest as they have not sought permission for their demonstration.

(éirígí link may not be working at present)

ADDS: I should have noted that dependent on éirígí plans they may not even fall within the scope of the Parades Commission. Under the Public Processions Act they would only be expected to apply if they intend to hold a parade or the focus of their demonstration is objecting to a parade. Demonstrating against a civic reception or the presence of British soldiers in Ireland falls under public order legislation.

  • Shore Road Resident

    How’s your new pal Colin Duffy?

    How are we supposed to take eirigi’s “anti-war” credentials seriously when it’s hanging around with dissident republicans?

    It’s make your mind-up time Mark. Are you anti-war or just anti-British?

  • slug

    eirigi now count among their supporters Colin Duffy from Lurgan.

  • slug

    SRR I see we were thinking along the same lines!

  • Libelous

    “hanging around with dissident republicans?”

    Perhaps you would like to provide us with some evidence that Duffy is involved with dissident or even associates with them?

  • pacman

    Correct me if I’m wrong but Cecil Calvert and Mark Harbinson support TUV. Does Turgon get asked about these associations? (In the interests of balance, naturally).

  • slug
  • slug

    The House of Lords appears to this week have responded to the second of the two things Duffy was campaigning for.

  • Mick Fealty

    Okay. Anyone going to talk about the subject above, or is this just a distributed game of playing the man?

  • At least we can rest assured that the people who framed this law knew what they were doing. Honest.

  • fair_deal

    ” they may not even fall within the scope of the Parades Commission”

    The issue of illegal parades (if indeed eirigi hold a parade/march/demonstration whatever) has come up before. The PC take no particular interest in illegal parading.

    http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/40Friday-September-2941-No-illegal.1796801.jp

    “the presence of British soldiers in Ireland”

    Surely what the protest is about isn’t the legal issue but the form it takes?

  • dub

    Pacman,

    I have raised the matter of those 2 unsavoury characters with Turgon a few timew and the last time Turgon agreed that they were thoroughly unsavoury characters.

  • Mark McGregor

    FD,

    “Surely what the protest is about isn’t the legal issue but the form it takes?”

    From my reading, yes and no.

    Any parade and the parades commission expect to be notified but I know that people moving from one static protest site to another on the footpath seem to bypass that element. Also a static protest against a meeting, decision etc. wouldn’t be the same as a protest specifically relating to a parade then you have public order legislation.

    However, I have no connection with éirigí and no knowledge of what they intend beyond what everyone can read in the media or online.

  • autocue

    Apparently the Afghan people are under an “imperialist jackboot” – someone phone the UN and tell them they are an imperialist organisation having authorised the action to topple the Taleban in Afghanistan.

    Eirigi clearly have about as much awareness of the geo-political reality as Paul Maskey who described the occupation of Afghanistan as illegal.

    Ever notice how the far-left have actually embraced the worst, most extreme, most reactionary elements of Islamism which opposes everything the left is supposed to stand for? Anti-Americanism/Brtishness blinding them to the obvious irony of so-called left wingers making common cause with people who oppose education for women, religious freedom and democratic government…..

  • Blue Rinse Brigade

    Safe to assume that the 2nd of November will be another shining example to the world of how backward this country is…

    World (and local) economy on its arse and we’re having arguments over parades…ingenious.

  • cynic

    “I should have noted that dependent on éirígí plans they may not even fall within the scope of the Parades Commission”

    You mean you dont know their plans? Funny that, isnt it when their website says they are to:-

    “Oppose Imperialist Celebration

    Having returned form the brutal occupation of Afghanistan, the Royal Irish Regiment of the British Army are to be given a ‘civic welcome’ and ‘homecoming parade’ in Belfast on November 2. éirígí activists from across Ireland will be challenging this attempted normalisation and glorification of the British occupation of Ireland and Afghanistan. ”

    and

    “socialists, republicans, democrats and human rights activists should put large numbers of people on the streets to give the RIR the only reception it deserves – a hostile one”

    Now of course, despite your risible attempt at sophistry on the legal issues, all that would make it a notifiable protest meeting wouldnt it Mark. But of course perhaps they plan to walk down from Divis to confront the parade – again they will need permission. On the other hand, to do that would mean confronting the RIR just back from fighting the Taliban so Faugh a Ballagh might just be the order of the day and the brave Republican stormtroopers may not be too keen on that.

    Also great to see from the blurb that éirígí have now declared themselves (in effect) pro Taliban and against the elected Government of Afghanistan, the USA and most of Europe. Nothing like standing on your principles in support of a band of murderous thugs. Oh …of course….most of them did that for years anyway.

    Well, I tell you what. If they are so concerned why dont they all go off to Afghanistan and volunteer for the Taliban so they can really fight the Brits up close? Of course they would lose their benefits then and perhaps a lot more, so I dont expect a big take up, but it would give the rest of us a break.

  • Greenflag

    autocue ,

    I agree . Eirigi are mistaken in this parade/protest . Afghanistan has been the proxy war playground for 1980’s Soviet /USA competition . Once the USSR folded Afghanistan was forgotten and left to the Taliban . The latter would probably still be in power if they had not allowed Al Quaeda /Osama Bin Laden to use their territory as a base to attack the West . Ultimately the Taliban may yet regain power in Afghanistan due to the USA/UK focus on Iraq following 2003 .

    These RIR soldoers who have returned from Afghanistan should be treated with the respect they deserve at least in their own country . Are Eirigi supporters of the Taliban ? I’ve bad news for them . The Mna Of Eireann (women of Ireland and Northern Ireland )will not be impressed .

    If they want to protest against the Iraqi Oil War -fine . Is’nt there an American consulate in Belfast and an embassy in Dublin ? Leave the RIR alone -someday you may have to depend on them to be the professional soldiers they obviously are .

  • Blue Rinse Brigade

    So that I dont come across uninformed, I decided to inform myself on the group that is eirigi and had a read through their website…

    As I suspected, completely bananas.

    Out of interest, seeing as the Irish Army is present in Afghanistan as part of the EU force, I assume eirigi are protesting in Dublin everytime they come home?

  • Steve

    If they are such profesional soldiers then surely eirigi has nowt to fear from them unless they are ordered to attack?

    one way they are an undisciplined mob the other way they are governmental goons bent on denying eirigi the free expresion of their Irishness. Either way army comes off with egg on its face

  • autocue

    “the free expresion of their Irishness”

    So Irishness is defined by anti-Britishness is it? That’s good to know. Thanks for that insight into nationalist thinking.

  • fair_deal

    MM

    “I have no connection with éirigí and no knowledge of what they intend beyond what everyone can read in the media or online”

    You forgot the “;)”

  • Slugger O’Toole Admin

    AC,

    Steve has confessed in the last couple of days that he doesn’t know very much about being Irish.

    I wouldn’t judge the corporate body of Irish nationalism on a few throwaway lines Canadian blog commenter who, apparently, doesn’t know who Brian Feeney is.

    Like the Great Spotted Woodpecker, he just ain’t from round these here parts…

  • autocue

    Slugger Admin

    Fair enough. Clearly Canadian bloggers are even more deranged that Irish Americans!

  • ggn

    “Leave the RIR alone -someday you may have to depend on them to be the professional soldiers they obviously are.”

    Greenflag,

    What do you mean?

  • fair_deal

    “I know that people moving from one static protest site to another on the footpath seem to bypass that element. Also a static protest against a meeting, decision etc. wouldn’t be the same as a protest specifically relating to a parade”

    That sort of tact was tried a few times at Loyal Order parades and it didn’t fly with either the RUC or PSNI.

    “against a meeting, decision etc. wouldn’t be the same as a protest specifically relating to a parade”

    Again I think you’re trying to mix what it is about with how it is done.

  • Steve

    ahh mick you just blew away your own ball not the man rule. Not really so sacred is it?

  • Mark McGregor

    FD,

    Didn’t forget anything. Check yer inbox.

  • fair_deal

    MM

    Just had sent reply

  • wasting time

    free expresion of their Irishness.

    Feck off! There’s my expression of my Irishness. Showing complete disregard for B.S.

  • Greenflag

    ggn ,

    ‘What do you mean?’

    If and when the NI tribes once again start to kill each other in respectable numbers – the RIR will have a role in keeping both sides apart at least until a new border can be drawn up and or reenforcement can be flown in .

    The RIR may even be put in a position in having to defend these ‘eirigi’ lads from their opposite numbers on the other side .

    You don’t protest against the people who may be called in to save your skin do you ?

    Well not unless you belong to that sad numerous NI tribe of people who have long existed on biting the hand that feeds them 🙁

    Thickos once again 🙁

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Imagine all that stood between you and a slavering horde of crazy loyalists in Portadown on a dark night was the brave men of the RIR/UDR/tartans?UVF?UDA

  • Bohereen

    yeah yeah,
    but what about the

    Elephant

    In the Parade

    at Bangor?

  • cynic

    “people moving from one static protest site to another on the footpath seem to bypass that element. Also a static protest against a meeting, decision etc. wouldn’t be the same as a protest specifically relating to a parade ”

    errr ………no

    But let’s all look on the positive side. NITB can count all the southern ones as say trippers so it will boost the tourism figures.

    They could even give them a goody bag as they arrive full of things to help them enjoy their stay:-

    * phial of genuine Pashtun sand# to remind them of the oppresed people they are defending

    * postcards of Belfast wall murals showing dead people to send home to friends (as if they had any who weren’t on the trip)

    * free Starbucks voucher entitling them to free cup with every drink and reminding them of the subtle US interference in hot drinks vending in the North

    * map highlighting places to go to be offended at the oppression of British rule in the six county statelet (eg the Crown Bar mischeviously named after the symbol of oppression and maintained by the BRITISH National Trust to remind Nationalists of that oppression)

    * 20% off tickets for the Belfast Bus Tour including the so called peacelines designed to hem Catholics in so Prods can more easily attack them

    * free entry to Stormont where they can see a (dusty) picture of Sinn Fein members sitting in the hated Executive administering British Rule

    * free entry to the revolving door where Michael Stone was arrested (no weapons allowed) and which is now so emblematic of NI politics

    * a collection of obscelescent “Vota Sinn Fein” posters from the last but one EU election to remind them that European Tyranny extends to the North too

    * free Argos catalogue so they can buy Christmas presents much cheaper than in Dublin to offset cost of being offended by the RIR parade

    (# sand packed in Portstewart by people of Pashtun origin under the yolk of British Imperialism)

  • Pancho’s Horse

    It’s certainly no yolk!

  • ggn

    Greenflag,

    You know nothing of the North or of the nature of the conflict.

  • au contraire

    Greenflag has cut through the bullshit, more like. You can tell from the shrill, skirt-hems clutching response.

  • Brian

    To whoever claimed éirígí were pro-Taiban, have you any evidence of this, a link perhaps?

  • cynic

    Brian

    Read their website. They are anti everything British and American in Afghanistan which they describe as a “a brutal occupation” being resisted by the Afghani people and which they then try to compare to Northern Ireland.

    The fact that the allies are there at the invitation of the ELECTED Afghani Government to try to support democratic government escapes them. NATO and almost 40 other countries with contingents there have effectively been duped by the Americans and British. In éirígí’s view it is all a “war against the Afghani people”.

  • There at the invitation of the elected government? I could have sworn the invasion was not at the invitation of the government there at the time, unlike the Soviet intervention.

  • RepublicanStones

    Im all for reminding these crown forces soldiers that the north isn’t Finchley and their exploits in Afghanistan have apparently been in vain, at least as regards the view of the people who matter.

    http://www.asadismi.ws/joya.html

    Also as Pancho pointed out the evolution of the RIR means it will always be viewed with suspicion by many in the nationalist community.

    But as regards the issue of whether or not this demo falls under the remit of the PC or not, is this clever maneuvering by éirígí or just pure blind luck?

  • Barnshee

    What about a static counter protest by (say)(a) “The Prod victims of the ra” groupings Then we could have a further counter, counter static protest by (b) one of “victims of state oppression” outfits . Then we could add our Willies lot counter , counter, counter protesting at not being included in (a)or (b). Eventually we could involve uncle tom cobley and all. Make for a great day out

  • Greenflag

    ggn,

    ‘You know nothing of the North’

    I wish :(. I find that the more I get to know about NI from the pages of slugger and elsewhere the less I actually know and understand this political backwater of the universe . I suspect I’m not alone among the ‘outsiders’i.e (Non NI ) on this blog be they British or Irish It’s as if the province was surrounded by a black hole into which any light which is shed is absorbed and rather than illuminate the ‘darkness’ just adds to it forever and ever.

    ‘ or the nature of the conflict.’

    Which conflict the ‘real ‘ one with dead bodies in Afghanistan or the ‘fake ‘ one in NI whose main casualties are now the bruised reputations of it’s leading politicians ? I’ve been too close to conflict in many parts of the world that Northern Ireland’s ‘conflict’ seem as if it was conducted as per the Quennsberry Rules 🙁

    Eirigi should focus on what actually can make a difference in NI . Staging a protest outside the offices of SF and the DUP could be a start .

    But that would require ‘real ‘ courage eh ?

  • what happened to tolerance? anyone seen him lately?

  • dub

    Greenflag,

    You often speak sense but you appear to have lost it completely here. If as you claim you are an Irish nationalist then it should not be difficult for you to understand that Irish republicans and nationalists should object to this foreign army in Ireland. The idea that British forces have ever protected anyone in Ireland from amything is absolutely ludicrous… they have never and will never play a progressive role in this country.They have murdered people in cold blood, tortured people, set up false flag terror groups, colluded with loyalist terrorism and occupied entire nationalist districts for years with no corresponding presence in loyalist areas… You appear now to have swallowed British propaganda hook line and sinker.. 2 irrational tribes baying for eachother’s blood separated by the noble disinterested professionsl British. If you are an Irish nationalist then i am Napoleon… your views on Afghanistan place you equally beyond any anti-colonialist viewpoint… The idea that the British army have ever fed the hand of anyone in nationalist ireland is so fantastic as to positively warrant a mental health check…

  • Big Maggie

    Greenflag

    this political backwater of the universe

    I feel dutybound to inform you that the Hubble space telescope last year found a planet close to Alpha Centauri that boasts a community that SEEMS to be slightly more backward-looking than NI. Otherwise point took.

  • Terrible Terri

    IMHO Erigi come across foolish with their rhetoric on Afganistan, to say the least. They (all 38 of them) should stick to Northern Ireland issues

  • Greenflag

    Dub a.k.a Napoleon

    ‘If as you claim you are an Irish nationalist ‘

    I am with a small ‘n’.

    ‘then it should not be difficult for you to understand that Irish republicans and nationalists should object to this foreign army in Ireland.’

    What to you and I may be a ‘foreign’ army even though the vast majority of the RIR soldiers parading will have been born and grown up on this island some of them even from the Republic, the fact is , it is not seen as a ‘foreign ‘ army by the majority of people in the present state of Northern Ireland . It is their army . As long as the NI State exists in it’s present state thats how it is . After Repartition such a parade would not be possible in the pat of NI ceded to the Republic.

    When SF/Republicans commemorate Wolfe Tone and parade to their ‘pantheon’ of Gods, how would they feel about the TUV or some other Unionist /Loyalist group holding a protest parade to confront /disturb etc etc their day out ?

    ‘The idea that British forces have ever protected anyone in Ireland from amything is absolutely ludicrous’

    Would that it were so . Alas we know from the past 35 years in NI that the presence of the British army probably staved off a mini genocidal war between both tribes which would have led to 100,000 dead instead of 4,000. Stating this does not ‘justify’ the presence of the British Army in Ireland historically -it merely points out the stark facts of political life in NI.

    ‘they have never and will never play a progressive role in this country.’

    I did’nt say they did . I stated that they saved NI from even worse ‘troubles ‘ in the past 35 years .end of !

    How do you think the ‘power sharing ‘ deal would work if HMG ‘unilaterally ‘ withdrew from NI tomorrow ? What would have happened if Jim Callaghan had not sent in the troops in 1969 ?

    We would be living in a happy prosperous and wealthy UI and not remembering tens of thousands dead on both sides following a brutal repartition of NI ? Which outcome would have been the more likely ?

    ‘your views on Afghanistan place you equally beyond any anti-colonialist viewpoint…’

    The Americans put the Taliban in power . Anyone with half a brain knows how the Taliban ruled Afghanistan . NATO is now trying to ensure that Afghanistan gets a reasonable chance to govern itself by means of democracy and not theocracy. Allowing the Taliban to regain sole political power is not progressive !

    How would you feel about Britain witdrawing from Northern Ireland and leaving it to be ruled by say the ultra right wing fundamentalists of ‘Loyalism ‘ simply because the latter have the guns and could do what they like including killing as many ‘infidels RC’s as they wanted for the greater glory of a ‘born again ‘ Protestant Ayatollah and his God friend in the clouds above Ballymena ?

    As Napoleon set out to destroy himself by invading Russia -I recall his famous words

    ‘Good night Vienna ‘

    As Eirigi set out to make ‘eejits ‘ of themselves I suppose it’ll have to be

    ‘Good night UI – welcome intolerance and f**k the begrudgers’

    Which is of course a line straight from the well thumbed political manual of political unionism these past 80 years . The short title is

    ‘FYNPRIF’ (F**k Youse Nationalist Papist Republican Irish Fenians )

    The shorter preface gives a fuller explanation of the title acronym .

    ‘How to lose friends , piss off potential neutrals and annoy the shit out your enemies so that they will not do the same to you when what goes around comes around ‘

    ‘E is for Eirigi and alas in this case E is also for Eejits ‘:( They should try not to emulate their unionist ‘superiors ‘ in matters politic . The track record of the former is not impressive .

    GFU

  • cynic

    Dub

    “this foreign army in Ireland”

    …. but you nationalists always tell the prods that they are deluded and that they are really Irish…so how can the army be foreign when its mostly made up of Irishmen? And in the case of the RIR where many actually come from the Republic?

    “The idea that British forces have ever protected anyone in Ireland from amything is absolutely ludicrous”

    …… total nonsense. They are still helping protect people today by having played their role in defeating the IRA, forcing them to abandon their war for a United Ireland and accept a settlement within the UK. Then there were all the bombs defused, terrorists arrested and prevented from killing people, etc, etc.

    “occupied entire nationalist districts for years with no corresponding presence in loyalist areas”

    …..again total tripe. Did they not teach history in your school? Did your mammy not tell you? How do you think the UDA was reduced from a peak of perhaps 60-80,000 members in the early 1970’s to a rump of a few hundred criminals by the late 1990’s? Pixie dust? You don’t seem to remember the fortified bases in Prod areas like the Shankill, East Belfast and Derry. Have you ever been in a Prod area?

    “The idea that the British army have ever fed the hand of anyone in nationalist ireland is so fantastic as to positively warrant a mental health check…”

    …as fantastical as the British PM’s top Securocrat writing speeches for a SF President for an Ard Feis ?

    Your grasp of events here is so shallow I wonder if you are American? But dont worry. Just retreat into your own prejudices and all will be fine.

  • Greenflag

    Big maggie ,

    ‘I feel dutybound to inform you that the Hubble space telescope last year found a planet close to Alpha Centauri etc ‘

    Don’t say that BM ;). One is enough . Alpha Centauri is much too close for comfort;)

    Perhaps Hubble made a mistake ? I read that of the three stars in the system, the ‘dimmest’ — called Proxima Centauri — is actually the nearest star to Earth excl Sol . Somehow that sounds more like it DIM SUN 😉 People in NI are well adapted to a DIM SUN rarely if ever seeing SOL in a cloudless sky 🙁

    If you hear they are looking for slightly less dim immigrants from a nearby solar system just point them towards you know where;)

  • Pancho’s Horse

    cynic, if only the British had stayed at home and reined in their thieving rapacious greedy grabbing expansionist colonialist policies, where would we be now? If only!

  • Greenflag

    pancho’s horse

    ‘if only the British had stayed at home and reined in their thieving rapacious greedy grabbing expansionist colonialist policies, where would we be now?’

    That’s a good question . But we know that the Brits were not the first into worldwide colonialism . They were preceded by the Spanish , Portugese , and Dutch and joined in the ‘crusade’ by the French , Belgians and latterly the Germans.

    We know also that the Scots were not entirely convinced of the morality of a non colonialist national perspective . I seem to recall the word ‘Darien ‘.

    Based on my understanding of human nature and economc history that we Irish , had we been able to establish a united island kingdom free of British overt control, that we too would have been tempted by the ‘rich spoils ‘ of overseas land grabbing and colonisation via the usual ‘conversion of the natives in return for land and scarce resources standard routine ‘. We did in a way or at least many of us did ‘disguised ‘ as British colonists in Southern Africa , Australia , New Zealand etc etc etc .

    Colonialism was a stage in the development of capitalism back at a time when ‘land grabbing ‘ by means of superior force of arms was considered part of the economic /natural order and god ordained . Nowadays we ‘ve refocused on scarce resources as in oil instead of ‘land ‘ and ‘souls’.

  • Big Maggie

    LOL Greenflag! If more people in NI had a sense of humour there wouldn’t be half the problems.

  • Driftwood

    I posted on an earlier thread that the squaddies probably couldn’t care less about another march, and a good dinner followed by a piss up would be sufficient. Nevertheless, they ere entitled to walk through their home city, at the behest of Belfast City Council. No-one with any sense of reason would have been bothered. A Sunday morning parade, similar to a Royal British Legion one. Now SF have upped the ante by implicitly inviting every head case in nationalist West Belfast to protest. And the loyalist eejits who previously had no interest in the RIR will follow suite.
    This almost guarantees a degree of trouble, and the ensuing blame, Police heavy handedness etc. Stoopid, stoopid, stoopid. If the PC allow the SF parade, hope not, the RIR should be allowed to carry their loaded weapons. In the credit crunch, several hundred less benefit claimants in West Belfast would be welcome news:,
    Code word here is british!!!

  • Greenflag

    Big M ,

    ‘If more people in NI had a sense of humour there wouldn’t be half the problems.’

    Perhaps ? My observation for what it’s worth is that the good folk of NI (both tribes ) take those things which ought to be taken seriously not serious enough and those which ought not to be taken too seriously as almost matters of existential life or death 🙁

    Have you perhaps considered that if those who do have a sense of humour -did’nt , that NI might have twice the problems it has or even worse some geometric progression of said amount ?;)

    I remember as a 13/1 year old having to be virtually carried from the cinema in an apopoleptic fit of laughter having seen Groucho (the leer ) Marx in Night of the Opera . As a somewhat more serious adult I revisited this film but alas no longer found it as funny as I had as a teenager .

    Nevertheless Marx (and I don’t mean Karl) has some sound advice to those who take life more seriously than is warranted.

    Heres an extract of a mini review I read recently which digs into the philosophy of Groucho Marx (not related to Karl (hairy face) Marx .

    ‘I’ve long been of the opinion that life is too serious to be taken seriously, and if that is my religion, then Groucho is the pope. In his interactions with peers, children, lawyers, actors, writers and politicians, the man simply refuses to take any of it seriously. Shakespeare wrote that life is a tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing. These letters make it seem as if Groucho actually lived it that way.

    A letter from Warner Brothers threatening legal action for the Marx Brothers’ use of the name “Casablanca” in the title of their movie was met not with bluster, counterthreats or even a request for discussion, but rather with a letter from Groucho discussing the history of the name “Warner” and the word “brothers.”

    “Professionally,” he writes, “we were brothers long before you… what about the Smith Brothers? The Brothers Karamazov? Dan Brothers, an outfielder with Detroit?”

    Subsequent letters from the WB lawyers were met with even more flippancy, and eventually they simply stopped writing and gave up the matter.

    In 1963, responding to an admiring letter he received from T.S. Eliot, Groucho replied, “Dear Tom; If this isn’t your first name, I’m in a hell of a fix.”

    In 1959, he wrote Elaine Tynan, the author of The Dud Avocado, to tell her how much he enjoyed her book. She wrote back, thanking him for his kind words and requesting a photo of him for her wall.

    “I am delighted,” he replied, “that you are delighted that I was delighted about your book. I am sending you a photo of myself at age of seven. You will probably say to yourself, ‘Why the cigar?’ That’s a very good question. Actually, the cigar is a phony, so is the moustache and, to wrap it all up neatly, so am I.”

    It takes a staggering degree of self-assurance to steadfastly refuse to be dragged down into the pit of worthiness and self-importance. It takes a monumental degree of wisdom to know that life is short and silly and probably ought to be treated that way. Serious is easy. It doesn’t take much to stand on a soapbox and bemoan the fall of something, the corruption of whatever, the abuse of everything.

    Perhaps the questions of “Why are we here?” “What is our purpose?” and “Is there a God?” are not answered in these letters. But a more important question is: How are we to go through life? How are we to approach this mess of an existence?

    Groucho’s answer: with laughter.

    Greenflag would concur with Groucho’s answer with the proviso , oft repeated in the annals of ‘The Rise and Fall of Reginald Perrin ‘ enunciated with precision by the great CeeJay (the boss)

    ‘not too much , not too little , just enough ‘

    and

    ‘I did’nt get where I am by knowing the difference between Venezuela and Chile ‘

    By the way whats the weather like in Venezuela ?

    Chile 😉

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    There’s an Orange portion on the Irish Republican flag. It represents the British people of Ireland. According to the size and proportions of the colours on the Irish flag, the British people of Ireland are entitled to have a say and equal rights in a Democratic Irish Republic. Like it or not, there is a strong history of Irish people serving in the British army. The British people of Ireland today strongly identify with this and the RIR troops who served in the Middle East. They wish to have a parade to honour their troops. They should be allowed to do so. The protest is rediculous. If it ends up in a melee and riot it will be shamefull and embarrasing. Eirigi/SF are using the lowest common denominator for a protest. A ‘United Ireland’, what Eirigi/SF believe in, entails the British people expressing their culture (as like the 12th July, etc…). This is part of their culture. It should be respected, whether people agree with it or not! Eirigi/SF don’t understand Democratic Republican principles, or in this case, compromise!

  • Brian

    According to cynic:

    “Read their website. They are anti everything British and American in Afghanistan which they describe as a “a brutal occupation” being resisted by the Afghani people and which they then try to compare to Northern Ireland.

    The fact that the allies are there at the invitation of the ELECTED Afghani Government to try to support democratic government escapes them. NATO and almost 40 other countries with contingents there have effectively been duped by the Americans and British. In éirígí’s view it is all a “war against the Afghani people”.”

    I have read their website and their is no mention of supporting the Taliban as somone tried to suggest (not sure if it was you or not cynic)

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    “The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.”

    For Erigi and SF folk the above extract is taken from the 1916 Proclamation. The 1916 Proclamation is the bedrock of modern Irish Republicanism. The sentence taken from the 1916 Proclamation above guarantees and respects the rights and culture of British people in Ireland! Whether one likes it or not British Unionists views and opinions should be respected. To ignore the meaning of the above sentence is to ignore the meaning of Irish Republicanism which is all encompassing!

  • ciaran

    cynic, did the americans go into afghanistan at the request of the government are did they go in and put that government in power?

  • barnshee

    “cynic, if only the British had stayed at home and reined in their thieving rapacious greedy grabbing expansionist colonialist policies, where would we be now? If only!

    Posted by Pancho’s Horse on Oct 22, 2008 @ 05:15 PM”

    Simple —you would be living in mud huts jabbering in a language incomprehensible to the rest of the world and subsisting on oats in a good year and SFA in a bad year All the while you would toady to the local “chief”

  • runciter

    There’s an Orange portion on the Irish Republican flag. It represents the British people of Ireland

    It doesn’t represent British anything. It represents Irish orangeism.

    The sentence taken from the 1916 Proclamation above guarantees and respects the rights and culture of British people in Ireland!

    It doesn’t guaranteee the right of the British army to parade in Ireland. And it doesn’t mean that Irish people are not entitled to protest either the presence of the British army in Ireland or its war crimes elsewhere.

    To ignore the meaning of the above sentence is to ignore the meaning of Irish Republicanism which is all encompassing!

    The meaning and history of Irish Republicanism is entirely consistent with protesting against the actions of the British military.

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    “Simple —you would be living in mud huts jabbering in a language incomprehensible to the rest of the world and subsisting on oats in a good year and SFA in a bad year All the while you would toady to the local “chief””

    I don’t think so!

    “It doesn’t represent British anything. It represents Irish orangeism.”

    Indeed, but Irish Orangeism is associated with British culture. Unionists view themselves as British!

  • dub

    Cynic,

    There was never the physical presence of British soldiers in loyalist areas as there was in nationalist areas. Yes i have been in loyalist areas and loyalist pubs for that matter.

    Greenflag,

    The British army pretty much set the conflict ablaze with their actions on Bloody Sunday, one sided internment, the Falls curfew, the massacre in Ballymurphy etc. Having set it ablaze their policy was to deliberately stir up sectarian warfare between what you call the “2 tribes”… despite their best efforts the Republican movement despite the truly terrible depths plumbed in 75 and 76 did not for the most time resort to all out sectarian warfare. The British Army also refused to support Sunningdale and refused to stand up to the Loyalist strike. This precipitated another 30 years of conflict. Many people would still be alive today if this entirely one sided partisan force whose sole purpose was to stoke sectarian warfare to dampen down republican radicalism had never set foot on Irish soil in 1969.

  • Driftwood

    dub
    The British Army also refused to support Sunningdale?????

    The British Army does what it is told by the MoD, ie The British Government. Your post makes out that squaddies carried out all this stuff over a few pints in the NAAFI. What if the Coldstream Guards disagreed with the Black Watch? Get a grip.