“I believe their frustration was real as was their skepticism..”

Far be it for me to disagree with Will Crawley’s assessment that the “money quote” in Volume 1 of retired Alaskan state prosecutor Stephen Branchflower’s report to the Alaska Legislative Council, is

“Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.”

The BBC report has more, and the Belfast Telegraph report seems somewhat premature.. Given that the full report has yet to be voted on, never mind endorsed, by the Legislative Council.. But I’d suggest the real ‘money quote’ is, as noted elsewhere

“I find that, although Walt Monegan’s refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin’s firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.”

The first quote refers to Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) which provides

“The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.”

Interestingly, leaving aside that it was, at most, a constructive dismissal of Moneghan, the first finding relates to an alleged breach of public trust in attempting to pressurise Moneghan to fire Trooper Michael Wooten, although Wooten was not fired, and corresponds with the ethics disclosure [pdf file] by Sarah Palin herself on 1 September this year. The detailed Wiki page on Troopergate provides the background, from Sarah Palin’s character reference for Wooten in 2000 to her overhearing a death threat against her father, Chuck Heath, in 2005 – a year before she became State Governor. In the aftermath of his divorce from Palin’s sister, Wooten was subsequently suspended for 10 days [pdf file], reduced to 5 days after a union appeal, and transferred to a different department. But the suspension letter made no reference to the death threat, despite an internal investigation concluding that – “Wooten violated internal policy, but not the law, in making a death threat against Heath. Wooten denied having made the threat, but the investigation decided that he had in fact done so. The investigation concluded that the death threat was not a crime because Wooten did not threaten the father directly; therefore, the investigator deemed the threat to be a violation of trooper policy rather than a violation of criminal law.”
The Conclusion of the explanation of the First Finding is also worth looking at from Volume 1 [pages 65-68]

As is the subsequent discussion to the Recommendation to the Legislature. [pages 79-81]

In this case, there has been much said about the level of frustration that existed on the part of Sarah Palin’s father Chuck Heath who filed the original complaint against Trooper Michael Wooten, and on the part of Sarah and Todd Palin, who attempted to learn the status of the investigation only to be told be Colonel Grimes that the matter was confidential by reason of AS 39.25.080. I believe their frustration was real as was their skepticism about whether their complaints were being zealously investigated. The irony is that the complaints were taken very seriously, and a thorough investigation was underway. However, the law prevented the Troopers from giving them any feedback whatsoever.

, , ,

  • latcheeco

    But Pete,
    Unlike your post, they weren’t investigating Wooten, but whether Palin and her unelected husband were using her position to settle personal family scores that had already been legally dealt with elsewhere and, however just their personal grievance may have been, the issue was whether she unethically (if perhaps not illegally) fired the guy because he followed the letter of the law.

  • Alan

    How to obscure a simple story, Pete.

    Palin had Monegan sacked. That she was certainly allowed to do.

    What she had no right to do was to sack him because he had refused to sack Wooten, Palin’s sister’s ex husband.

    That is all this investigation is saying.

    Palin used personal and family prejudice in deciding to sack the man. It’s either vindictiveness or vendetta – your call.

    Either way, that is certainly not a quality anyone wants to see near the White House.

  • Dewi

    Pete – for all your foibles and obsessions I thought you had some sense. Are you seriously suggesting that Palin is fit to be a heartbeat away?

  • 6countyprod

    The weakly reasoned “Troopergate” report may well represent another nail in the McCain-Palin coffin, but, as the folks at Powerline clearly show, the case that she abused her power by violating the ethics statute and/or that she fired the public safety commissioner because he wouldn’t act against Wooten has not been made.

    Alan,
    would you agree that deception is ‘not a quality anyone wants to see near the White House’? I am thinking specifically of the Obama-Ayers subterfuge.

  • Interested Party

    She is only going for the Vice-presidency unlike Bill Clinton who also abused his powers as governor.

  • Rory

    Let us be kind to Sarah Palin. Let us give her the benefit of doubt. Let us presume that, in applying pressure on Commisioner Monegan in an attempt to secure the dismissal of Trooper Wooten, she did so in the belief that Trooper Wooten was not a person fit to hold the office of State Trooper. We could not argue then but that she had done her duty in attempting to secure his dismissal. Good girl, Sarah.

    But then of course we are forced to call into question the judgement values of someone who supplied a reference for a person she now regards as unfitting for the post to which she recommended him. Bad girl, Sarah.

    But the real story here is not merely the finding of the report that “Governor Sarah Palin had abused her power” but the gross attempt by the McCain camp to intimidate and influence the council as to its findings and then failing that their attempt to delay and suppress the publication of those findings. So we not only have to worry about a potential vice-president who is clearly lacking in judgement and who is abusive of power she is given but we are in danger of having a president who is quite prepared, like his notorious predecessor and fellow Republican, Richard Nixon,to engage in dirty tricks and cover-ups of the nefarious misdeeds committed by his henchmen (and women).

    That’s what I love and admire about the Republican
    Party – their consistency. They are always pure rotten, all the way through.

  • Greenflag

    McCain 2008 is not the McCain of 2000. He’s allowed Bush’s spinmeisters to run his campaign in a desperate attempt to reverse a potential Democratic landslide victory .

    They are now appealing to God as we see from this report

    ‘A minister delivering the invocation at John McCain’s rally in Davenport, Iowa Saturday told the crowd non-Christian religions around the world were praying for Barack Obama to win the U.S. presidential election.

    “There are millions of people around this world praying to their god—whether it’s Hindu, Buddha, Allah—that his opponent wins, for a variety of reasons. And Lord, I pray that you will guard your own reputation, because they’re going to think that their God is bigger than you, if that happens,” said Arnold Conrad, the former pastor of Grace Evangelical Free Church in Davenport.

    This incident comes a day after a Minnesota voter asked Senator McCain if Barack Obama was an Arab at a town hall in Lakeville, Minnesota and just three days after Lehigh GOP County Chairman Bill Platt made a speech at a McCain rally in Pennsylvania where he refered to the Democrat nominee for president as Barack Hussein Obama.

    Meanwhile Palin is now digging around in ‘abortion’ as her ‘last hope’ of diverting attention from American’s preoccupation with their crumbling economy – the result of 8 years of Republican incompetence on a scale that is hardly credible 🙁

    Where is Mr Cheney these days ?

    Shredding whatever he can no doubt 🙁

    Anyway there are no more nails needed for this republican coffin . The Republican party corpse is now stinking so much that even the son of William Buckley Jr -the founder of the right wing National Review has now endorsed Obama for President .

    In local NI political terms this is like Ian Paisley going on UTV tomorrow and saying a United Ireland is the only practical possibility to restore NI to democracy !

    McCain needs to lose this one with some dignity . And to do that he needs to step down hard on the ‘racists’ and ‘born again nutters’ among his supporters . If he does’nt he risks the loss of any remaining ‘independents ‘ out there who were leaning towards him and could even provoke a widespread stay at home by ‘liberal ‘ Republicans thus turning a respectable Democratic victory into a rout of the Republicans .

  • willis

    Good to see you are all well refreshed by the break.

    Alan,
    would you agree that deception is ‘not a quality anyone wants to see near the White House’? I am thinking specifically of the Obama-Ayers subterfuge.

    Give me strength 6CoP

    The game is up. If that nonsense is genuinely all the right has left then Obama and the Dems deserve to win big in November and roll back the Reagan-Thatcher destruction of decent civil society,

  • 6countyprod

    Obama’s dismissal of Ayers as just ‘a guy who lives in my neighborhood’ will go down as one of the most deceitful statements of the 2008 campaign. The deception is astonishing.

    Here are a few Obama-Ayers exposures, plus a couple of freebies on other topics, most of which, of course, will never see the light of day on msm outlets. The average person knows so little about the real Obama, it’s downright scary.

    Obama is not fit to be president and America deserves a whole lot better. But I suppose you can fool all of the people some of the time. The US is about to buy a lemon.

    All I can say is, God help America!
    **************************************************

    Jim Treacher’s Obama-Ayerscomic strip

    CNN pulls the Ayers’ rug on Obama

    Top ten Obama-Ayers highlights over the past twenty years

    Obama working with Ayers when Ayers stepped on US flag in 2001

    Ayers’ reputation as a cop-killer

    Obama started his political career in the home of a terrorist

    Obama and Ayers Pushed Radicalism On Schools

    Follow up on WSJ piece

    1997 – Obama and Ayers together

    Obama’s Friends video

    Obama and Mansour

    Obama’s words and deeds

    Why Obama hides his executive experience

    All you ever want to know about Obama, Ayers and Annenburg

    Obama-Ayers GOP dossier

    Ayers and Chavez, 2006

    ///

    The coming Obama thugocracy

    Odinga, Obama’s agent for change

    Obama’s Kenya Ghosts

    Mainstream Media Ignore Obama’s Radical Abortion Record

    etc, etc, etc

  • willis

    6CoP

    Just a quote from your depressingly long list of not very much.

    “Obama fans jammed WGN’s phone lines and sent in hundreds of protest emails. The message was clear to anyone who would follow Rosenberg’s example. We will make trouble for you if you let anyone make the case against The One.”

    Phoning and sending in e-mails

    Is there no end to the intimidation?

  • circles

    “Obama is not fit to be president and America deserves a whole lot better.”

    Ahhhhh, John McCain? I know you didn’t say it directly 6CP but is he “a whole lot better”?

  • Greenflag

    6 county prod,

    Philadelphia agrees that Palin is not fit to be VP and America deserves a whole lot better .

    Although many Philadelphia Flyers fans cheered and clapped as Sarah Palin took to the ice at the Wachovia Center on Saturday night to drop the ceremonial puck kicking off this town’s NHL season, their warm reception was no match for the 90 seconds of sustained booing that rumbled through the arena, drowning out the few cheers in support of the Republican vice presidential nominee.

    As Palin stepped onto the ice before a capacity crowd to drop the puck, joined by her daughters Willow and Piper, the arena’s jumbotron flashed a futile message to the thousands of notoriously harsh Philadelphia sports fans in attendance.

    “Flyers fans, show Philadelphia’s class and welcome America’s #1 hockey mom, Sarah Palin,” the massive electronic message board pleaded, to little effect. Booing quickly erupted when the smiling candidate emerged from a tunnel leading onto the ice, muffling the applause of any Palin supporters in the crowd.

    Some in the audience simply gave her a thumbs down gesture. Others called her names.

  • 6countyprod

    Circles,

    With McCain, at least you know what you are getting. He can think and work outside the box. He is a RINO and hence not restricted by Republican ideology, and conservatives well know it! He has rubbed them up the wrong way on numerous occasions. He has shown that he is a consensus politician who has effectively and regularly worked across the aisle with Dems. Through decades of service to his country, he has proved his dedication and love for America.

    Obama, on the other hand, is the antithesis of McCain. His involvement in public life has (,some would say, poorly) served very narrow interests. His mentors are quite disturbing. He has no record of working with those whom he opposes politically. He is a left-wing fundamentalist whose views on issues like abortion, security and economics are liberal in the extreme, and, I believe, if elected, he will prove to be a very divisive president.

    I hope I am wrong.

  • latcheeco

    6county,
    I thought yall were the lawbinding people of Ulster. A cop got fired for not bending the law to suit his boss and you’re not outraged? Is it because his last name’s Monegan? 🙂 Were you just as outraged at GW’S reprobate past as you are at Obama’s past radical aquaintance? (Headline: Shocker!Inner-city black politician knows a radical)

  • latcheeco

    6county,
    In what way does the complete balleeks that McCain is making of his campaign reassure you about his possible presidency? He is starting to make GW look measured and thoughtful by comparison.
    Pete,
    BTW nice to see another US topic come up. I was starting to think you and Mick only sing when your winning 🙂 Seriously though cheers!

  • latcheeco

    Oops! “your” should, of course, be “you’re.”

  • Dewi

    6CP – too much – like organise your links in order of importance – some of us are busy !!

  • 6countyprod

    Greenflag,
    Not very nice folks those Flyers fans. I read they booed Santa Claus as well. Glad they do not support McCain/Palin. Powerline has a funny report on the incident.

    I was through Philly by train in July. Bit of a dump compared to Pgh. My favourite baseball game was one I saw between the pirates and the phillies in three rivers. The Pirates knocked them out of the park!

  • 6countyprod

    Dewi,
    It only takes a couple of seconds to copy and paste links into a word file. Slugger US posts have been scarce this past week or so, there was nothing negative on McCain/Palin, I suppose, so the list grew a little long.

    Lacheeco
    Monegan – is that an Irish name?
    I have nothing against Irish people, in fact I had one in my house today. But listen, there’s nothing like a bit of blarney from an Irishman in Pittsburgh to effectively nail the intriguing coincidences and dubious dalliances of The One.
    When are we going to get some answers?

  • Dewi

    6CP – so Obama talks to people in the PLO – good.

  • Dewi

    Still a bit worried about Ohio – Obama has a few roads to victory but Mccain must win Ohio, Obama still spending a pile of dosh in Texas – why not just stop that and focus on Ohio? ANd forget Florida – he only needs to win one of FL – OH and surely Ohio more likely?

  • willis

    “McCain needs to lose this one with some dignity . And to do that he needs to step down hard on the ‘racists’ and ‘born again nutters’ among his supporters . If he does’nt he risks the loss of any remaining ‘independents ‘ out there who were leaning towards him and could even provoke a widespread stay at home by ‘liberal ‘ Republicans thus turning a respectable Democratic victory into a rout of the Republicans .”

    Good point Greenflag

    http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/10/mccain_rebukes_religious_speak.html

    He is trying. I think he really believes that Obama is a decent American.

  • willis

    6coP

    “When are we going to get some answers?”

    Try this one from Former Reagan Advisor Ed Rollins

    “No one cares.”

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/53771.html

  • 6countyprod

    Willis,

    Obama has tried to play the race card many times, but McCain’s not biting.

    Yesterday we had another racist interjection from Obama: Hoodwink and bamboozle. But few were paying attention, white folks, that is. Or maybe the media are covering for him again.

    In the movie Malcolm X, Denzel Washington warned black people about the hidden evils of “the White Man” masquerading as a smiling politician: “Every election year, these politicians are sent up here to pacify us,” he says. “You’ve been hoodwinked. Bamboozled.” I don’t know if the words are a accurate quote of Malcolm X, but Obama applied them to McCain.

    How much more racist can you get?

  • Dewi

    6CP – watched your link and was very impressed by Obama – racist? don’t think so from my viewing.

  • Pete Baker

    6county

    Coincidentally, the one MLB game I’ve been lucky enough to be present at was a Pirates/Phillies game at Three Rivers back in 1986 [I think, it was an anniversary of something or other].

    Dewi

    I don’t recall endorsing any of the candidates involved. Indeed, not having a vote in this particular election, to do so would be somewhat self-indulgent/self-important.

    Alan

    “How to obscure a simple story, Pete.”

    Well, my own view is that this is far from the “simple story” that some would prefer it to be.

    “Palin had Monegan sacked. That she was certainly allowed to do.”

    Again, it was a constructive dismissal, at most, but as the report points out, she could have just sacked him out-right without censure.

    “What she had no right to do was to sack him because he had refused to sack Wooten, Palin’s sister’s ex husband.

    That is all this investigation is saying.”

    Actually that’s not what the investigator says.

    He claims that, in his opinion, “it was likely a contributing factor”.

    The other factors, by themselves, were, no doubt, entirely justifiable reasons to seek Monegan’s removal.

    Which is where, for the benefit of latcheeco, and ignoring the supposition on the part of the investigator, Wooten’s actions come into play.

    Because, as the investigator argues, the only censure of Palin comes from an alleged breach of public trust involving a “personal gain” from seeking to remove Trooper Wooten – whch she failed to do. If so, then there should not be any need for wider public concern about him – and yet he was disciplined for a series of breaches of conduct.

    Also as the report goes on to point out, Palin’s family’s skepticism of, and frustration at, the absence of transparency in the investigation of, and displinary action against, Wooten was real.

    So much so that the same report recommends a change in the law about such investigations in future.

    By the way, the breach of public trust under the cited section of the Act carries a maximum penalty of $5,000..

    Yes, Rory, we’re really in Richard Nixon territory here..

  • 6countyprod

    On October 1, 1967, when he was asked for a comment about the assassination of President Kennedy, Malcolm X said that it was a case of “chickens coming home to roost”, adding, “chickens coming home to roost never did make me sad; they’ve always made me glad”.

    Sound familiar?

    Mr X referred to whites as “devils” created in a misguided program by a black scientist, but predicted the inevitable but imminent return of blacks to their natural place at the top of the social order.

    And now we have Obama quoting him, referring directly to a white man. I suppose it would be okay for McCain to quote the KKK in reference to Obama?!?

    Add Malcolm X to Obama’s list of radical mentors and heroes.

  • 6countyprod

    Now we are getting somewhere.

    Just when I thought I was all alone, shouting at the wind, it’s Melanie Philips to the rescue!

  • Dewi

    6CP – no – she lost it for John Mc – who is actually a decent bloke. I don’t even believe that you think Palin should be a heartbeat away.

  • latcheeco

    Pete,
    self-indulgent/self-important…indeed.
    My benefit says to tell you cheers mucker, thanks for the help:)
    She can legally sack who she wants for whatever reason she wants does not answer whether she acted unethically for a state’s first citizen, and after GW in Iraq settling family scores, do we really need someone like this in the White House? Doubtful justifications after the fact to paint her and her unelected husband’s actions as altruistic and beneficial to the commonwealth are laughable.

  • latcheeco

    6county,
    Is that really where you are at now? Obama X? Really?

  • latcheeco

    6CP,
    I always thought Seawright or Lennie was Mr. X

  • 6countyprod

    Obama is/was on the Xtreme edge of leftwing politics in the US, but he has tried to move towards the centre. Unfortunately for him he has a few smelly albatrosses hanging around his neck.

    Would the real Obama please stand up?

    Is he:

    1. a secret socialist who wants to castrate the US military, encourage and protect late-term abortion and infanticide, and rob industrious Peter to pay lazy Paul?

    Or,

    2. a wonderful, articulate, non-partisan saviour who has the gifts and abilities to solve all our problems?

  • latcheeco

    6CP,
    Of course your argument really rests not on the negativity you can bring up about the other fella but how strong McCain is. Don’t be afraid to bring up McCain’s strong points (other than skin tone). Like say for example: dull,uninspiring, hypocritical, dithering, almost bottom of his class, clueless, bought and paid for by lobbyists, flailing/failing campaign, dullard on VP ticket, angry, whimsical, aggressive, derisive, etc.etc. Did I mention James Garner, Jodie Foster and Mel Gibson? Even his own corner men like Rollins and Krystal are now calling his campaign remarkably stupid. The only thing that can save McCain now is rascist crap (you know, like the stuff you’re spewing).

  • BfB

    As far as you socialist assholes are concerned..

    The truth hurts….
    6cp provides verifiable evidence of obiewans horrible past and dreadful associations..
    You label, insult, obfuscate, insult, assign motives…….BUT…
    No verifiable evidence to refute the TRUTH
    ??
    Hopeless socialist wankers….
    Reality suspending, America haters….
    Economy is ramping up down here with the news that obiewan has a snowballs chance in hell now that he been found out…The Palin bashing is exposing the nutroot crazy socialist asshole over here…the subprime mortgage as a civil right democratic scam is settling in to the poor people who now know who stole their money…..
    Overall, things are looking up for us old white devils….;-)

  • Dewi

    America haters? Bob – I love America – Big Bill Haywood and the Wobblies – Eugene Debbs, Jack London – fabulous people……and seem to have been proved right !!! (Code word = “Left” – brilliant)

  • latcheeco

    Bob,
    The economy is ramping up and Obama has no chance?
    Did you really just say that’s how things stand? Really? Because when I looked Obama was 11 points ahead and GM shares were trading at $4 with a view to a merger with Chrysler. Found out by who and doing what? Found out by Rush Limbaugh for being black? Maybe, ’cause that’s all ya got.

  • 6countyprod,

    “a secret socialist who wants to castrate the US military, encourage and protect late-term abortion and infanticide, and rob industrious Peter to pay lazy Paul?”

    Latcheeco,

    “dull,uninspiring, hypocritical, dithering, almost bottom of his class, clueless, bought and paid for by lobbyists, flailing/failing campaign, dullard on VP ticket, angry, whimsical, aggressive, derisive, etc.etc.”

    Maybe you’re both right. Both candidates are severely lacking. Honestly, they can’t even make these shamlections realistic anymore.

    Perhaps now is a time to recall bygone days when presidents of this republic were not such whores.

    “Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the grace of the Eternal God, will rout you out.”

    Andrew Jackson

    “These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people”

    Abraham Lincoln

  • 6countyprod

    lacheeco,
    Willis introduced the race issue on Page 1, post 22.
    See ya!

  • Rory

    Well 6countyprod, this “Black racism” that you keep banging on about must be proving very popular in the old USA if these latest polls are anything to go by.

    Obama leading by 10 points in latest US poll (Independent.ie/breaking-news)

  • BfB

    latchee

    Ya, right…. We’re raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacist..
    That’s working real well over here.
    And continue to be led by the ring in your nose by the socialist asshole msm…
    If these gas prices get any lower they’ll be riots in the streets……………………
    HA!
    Banks are handing out money to qualified people down here…not in the news? I’m stunned..
    You’re a bunch of sucker, socialist assholes….and that is what obiewan is counting on……

  • BfB

    The socialt assholes are exposing themselves at an alarming rate…..Palin is calling them out as the baby murdering thieves that they are….
    And temper tantrums are the rule of the day….
    socialist asshole’s mecca see if your attention spans are long enough to look and listen to the end…

  • steve

    they must have foreclosed on bobs bridge and being homeless hes decided to be a plague on the rest of us.

    My only question, which is the sock puppet bob or 6?

  • BfB

    stevie boy..

    So, you agree with the deranged socialist assholes referred to in my last post? No surprise..
    Your insightful, intellectual, fact packed, retorts
    are such a pleasure to read from my smoking, oft assaulted, bunker, here in financially ravaged, wild west like, West Palm Beach….

    Prat (not that that’s a bad thing) ;-0

  • latcheeco

    Steve,
    Brother Bob is just pissed that America has now embraced socialist economics after the failure of rampant free market capitalism. He needs to be helped through this transition not scorned for his simplicity.

  • BfB

    Oh, and while I’m on the subject of stevie being a prat….(in a political, anti-USA way)

    I bet he’d like one of THESE fancy t-shirts to wear to mass with his pals…..

  • bfb

    Latchee…

    embraced socialist economics?

    ‘One of Barack Obama’s most potent campaign claims is that he’ll cut taxes for no less than 95% of “working families.” He’s even promising to cut taxes enough that the government’s tax share of GDP will be no more than 18.2% — which is lower than it is today.

    It’s a clever pitch, because it lets him pose as a middle-class tax cutter while disguising that he’s also proposing one of the largest tax increases ever on the other 5%. But how does he conjure this miracle, especially since more than a third of all Americans already pay no income taxes at all? There are several sleights of hand, but the most creative is to redefine the meaning of “tax cut.”

    For the Obama Democrats, a tax cut is no longer letting you keep more of what you earn. In their lexicon, a tax cut includes tens of billions of dollars in government handouts that are disguised by the phrase “tax credit.” Mr. Obama is proposing to create or expand no fewer than seven such credits for individuals’

    Ya, that’ll work……
    Cuz weer stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid!!

  • willis

    6CoP

    “Willis introduced the race issue on Page 1, post 22.
    See ya!”

    You are very kind, but if you had read my post you would have worked out that I was quoting Greenflag’s much earlier post.

    Wilde Rover

    Brilliant quote from Old Hickory.

  • latcheeco

    Wilde Rover,
    Jackson probably isn’t the best man to bring up when arguing for presidential rectitude; ask the Creek Indians or look at the spoils system.
    Robertfb,
    You want the government to continue to reward the super rich just for being super rich while the vast majority of the people pay for these rewards through an unfair tax burden.Mr.Nobel’s economics prize just went to another Bush hating msnbc liberal btw.

  • Greenflag

    latcheeeco

    ”Mr.Nobel’s economics prize just went to another Bush hating msnbc liberal bt

    Mr Paul Krugman has been rightly unimpressd with the Bush /Cheney gang of thieves since they were elected . Mr Krugman’s view is also endorsed by Dwight D Eisenhower’s daughter , William Buckley Jr’s son (Founder of the right wing National Review) also by Warren Buffet and George Soros (both well billionaire communists 😉 not to mention 85% of the population of the rest of the world outside the USA .

    Everybody is out of step except thicko Bfb and a few hicks in places like Alabama , Utah , Alaska and Texas .

    McCain might as well throw in the towel now . He’s nothing left to lose except his self respect and his reputaion if he continues to pursue his campaign under the direction of Karl Rove and the rest of the ultra right wing nut jobs who have almost destroyed the USA through their greed for ‘oil’ at any cost and by any method .

    This election is over . States which were formerly considered safe McCain territory like Virginia and North Carolina are now in toss up territory . We could be on the verge of a landslide and a complete rout of the Republicans .

    They certainly deserve it !

  • bfb

    latchee

    Don’t let the facts get in the way of your socialist asshole, anti-USA rants there shit-for-brains..

    ‘IRS data shows that in 2004, the richest 50% of the taxpayers paid 96.7% of all income taxes. From 1986 to 2004, the share paid by the richest half increased from 93.5% to 96.7%, and the share paid by the richest 1% increased from 25.75% to 36.89%. At the same time, the amount paid by the poorer half decreased from 6.5% in 1986 to 3.3% in 2004. While the poor’s contribution was cut in half, the richest Americans saw their contribution increase by nearly 50%. When you get past the propaganda, for the last two decades the rich have been paying more and more while the poor have been paying less and less.

    To put it simply, of the $832 billion in personal income taxes collected in 2004, the richest half of the country paid $804 billion while the poorest half only paid $27.4 billion.’

  • bfb

    ‘’Mr.Nobel’s economics prize just went to another Bush hating msnbc liberal’

    A Bush/USA hating socialist asshole awarded the prize by a bunch of eeeeyouuuuuuuu Bush/USA hating socialist assholes….I’m stunned.

  • latcheeco

    Robert,
    Are yu having a bad morning? You sound angry.
    It sounds like you think the poor should be forced to pay more, the bastards. Of that vaunted richest 50%, how much are the middle class paying compared to the super rich as a percentage of what they can afford.

  • latcheeco

    Greenflag,
    Again, I don’t think it’s quite over yet, and feckin’ leave hicks in ‘Bama alone btw, I warned you before 🙂

  • Wilde Rover

    latcheeco,

    “Jackson probably isn’t the best man to bring up when arguing for presidential rectitude; ask the Creek Indians or look at the spoils system.”

    A fair point. However, he may have been a bollix but I think it’s fair to say no one was pulling his strings.

  • latcheeco

    Wilde Rover,
    Fair enough an independent bollix so.

  • bfb

    I’m always in a good mood…
    Life here in the USA is quite nice…
    Socialist assholes need to be reminded of their reality suspending folly. Facts are facts.
    Assign motives, read my mind, add a label or two.
    But ‘it sounds as if’ you can’t handle the TRUTH.
    Standard socialist asshole behaviour.
    The assertion that the rich have gotten richer while the poor have gotten poorer is patently false and is simply not supported by the evidence.

  • latcheeco

    Coincidently Wilde,
    I’m actually typing this morning from a street called Three Notch Street. Named after the notches Andrew Jackson’s army made on the pine trees here as they passed through, marking the route as they made their way to tear Packenham a new one at Norlans.

  • 6countyprod

    Willis, humble apologies.

    It’s interesting where this race thing is going. Whites who do not support Obama are racists, and Blacks who do not support Obama are traitors.

    Strange times, indeed.

    Wilde rover,
    The Cherokees in OK that I lived with for a while hated Jackson too. He was responsible for the Trail of Tears on which around 4,000 Cherokee died.

  • BfB

    Ah, yes…Andy Jackson. The son of displaced ulster planters, those ulster scots were indian killers to the nth power. Rumour has it that they started the whole indian scalp for cash thing. He turned into a planter himself..
    The Cherokees in OK probably felt much like the Catholics in Ulster

  • latcheeco

    6county,
    I thought you lived among f****n comanches 🙂
    Anyway, there’s no getting around the fact that this race would have been long over if democrats were running a generic white male.Why is that? There’s no other logical reason other than skin color.

  • latcheeco

    Hark! Oracle Bob speaketh his wisdom on the protestant provenance of scalping.

  • BfB

    Couldn’t be his financial fiasco plans…..

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO>>
    RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACISTS!!!!!

    ‘ And, as it looks increasingly likely that Obama will be that man, the markets are casting a vote of “no confidence.”

    To be fair, McCain hardly instills confidence among the Wall Streeters I speak to. Why has his campaign spent the last week focusing on Obama’s friendship with former terrorist William Ayers – when it should be hitting Obama’s blind loyalty to policies that bring together the worst elements of Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter?

    Recently, Obama said he wants to expedite loans to small businesses, so he seems to have a clue that they produce much of the country’s job growth. Yet his income-tax hike on upper brackets will hit vast numbers of small businesses – they’d face the highest rates they’ve seen in decades.

    Overall, his plan includes some of the most lethal tax increases imaginable, including a jump in the capital-gains rate. He’d expand government spending massively, with everything from new public-works projects to increases in foreign aid to a surge in Afghanistan – plus hand out a token $500 welfare check that he calls a tax cut to everyone else.’

  • BfB

    Ya latchee

    The civil war isn’t over, it’s only halftime right?

  • BfB

    ‘protestant provenance of scalping.’
    Ths is why I giggle when you knuckleheads bring up the whole indian massacre thing…
    It was the Ulster Scots what done it…
    Read some non-fiction, will ya!

    ‘By 1630, the English and Scots population settled in Ulster was larger than British settlement in all North America–21,000 English and 150,000 Lowland Scots. In 1641, the indigenous Irish rebelled and killed ten thousand settlers. The response of the Puritan English revolutionary government of Cromwell was fierce. The Puritan policy of exterminating Indians in North America was similar, Richard Slotkin argues, to Puritan policy in Ireland; “where systematic assaults were made on Celtic tribalism, native bardic myth-historians were forbidden to sing, isolated clans were exterminated, and the rest of the population was ravaged. Cromwell even attempted to establish a wild Irish reservation in western Ireland.”

    So the Ulster-Scots were already seasoned colonialists before they filled the ranks of the British settlers to North America. Before ever meeting American Indians, these Ulster-Scots had perfected scalping for bounty on the Irish. Later, during the early nineteenth century, after the United States was independent of Britain, Irish Catholics would immigrate in the millions, but the Ulster-Scots were another breed–they were the foot soldiers of empire; the Ulster-Scots and their progeny formed the shock troops of the “westward movement,” that is, empire.

    During the last two decades of the eighteenth century, first and second generation Ulster-Scots continued to move westward into the Ohio Valley, West Virginia, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Ulster-Scots were overwhelmingly frontier settlers rather than scouts, explorers, or fur traders. They cleared forests, built log cabins, killed Indians, formed a wall of protection for the new United States, and during times of war, they employed their fighting skills effectively.’

  • Rory

    A friend of mine in the States seemed to be suffering from indigestion but now it appears that she might be pregnant. She has decided that if she has a girl she will be named Grace (after Grace O’Malley) and if a boy, Martin (after Dr King).

    However if after all it does turn out to be just a bag of wind she will call it John McCain.

  • BfB

    Hmmm a socialist asshole giving birth…
    don’t tell obiewan..

  • latcheeco

    Robert,
    You’re ranting incoherently now. Just because McCain does it doesn’t mean you have to.

  • Dewi

    Bob – even you can’t handle Palin a heartbest away surely?

  • BfB

    dewi

    obama and his minions are horrible, anti USA, socialist, communist, bent on destroying the USA as it stands today. The evidence is overwhelming. If that’s ok with you, then believe what you want. It is not ok with me. SP is by far a better person, let alone, politician, human being etc..than obama will ever be. I do not like McCain and I will hold my nose and vote for him. Palin speaks for the silent majority… the obama fools are despicable, across the full spectrum of Americana. obama stands against everything generations of good Americans, of all colors, have worked for, to bring us to the wonderful country that the USA is. He and his miniions are vile, communist, religious, storm troopers. If he wins the shit will hit the fan and the USA will fall hard. I’m ready for any outcome.

  • BfB

    latchee is a perfect example of the vapid, shallow fools that lap at obamas feet. They call verifiable facts and truth raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacism and ranting incoherently…….they are doomed to the Kinkos copy center for life and don’t like it. It hurts their self esteem, and attacking downs babies seems the next logical step to them. Ya, that’ll win you an election.

  • BfB

    Plumber to Obama: “Your new tax plan is going to tax me more. Isn’t it?”

    Obama: “It’s not that I want to punish your success, I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too. I think that when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

    Socialist prick.

  • latcheeco

    Robert,
    Stop shouting at the computer. It can’t hear you, and you’ll wake the other patients. I promise it’s all going to be ok. We survived through curious Goerge we will live through Obama. Now take your tranquilizers and go to sleep.
    BTW. What happened to you at kinkos? Was somebody mean?

  • 6countyprod,

    “The Cherokees in OK that I lived with for a while hated Jackson too. He was responsible for the Trail of Tears on which around 4,000 Cherokee died.”

    That figure almost seems quaint now.

    The current president is responsible for the current phase of the war on Iraq where over 1,000,000 have died.

    Bill Clinton was responsible for the silent war phase of the war on Iraq where 500,000 children alone died.

    Whoever takes this election will have to follow in some particularly bloody footsteps.

  • 6countyprod

    Wilde Rover,
    Yea, the Iraqi utopia under Saddam was destroyed by those interferring westerners. Shame on them!

  • 6countyprod

    Twenty reasons why Bush-haters should not vote for Obama.

    How long will it take for the shine to wear off?

  • circles

    About as long is it will take Bob to return to sanity I imagine.
    You see 6CP i think you’ve missed the point.

    There are 2 candidates right?
    One is an aging cancer survivor with a self-confessed lack of understanding of the economy, a member of the party that has screwed said economy over 8 years, running a dreadful campaign, who has embarassed himself completely with a poorly chosen corrupt local politician as a running mate, who blew the last of his credibility with a theatrical suspension of his campaign, and has continued to talk shite ever since.
    On the other hand there is a younger poltician from the party that had left a healthy economy, who stays on message focussing on the economy, who picked a running mate who made up for suspected experience deficits, who has run a coherent campaign and energised his voting base.

    You see as much as people like Bob and perhaps yourself are content enough just to be against Obama on a point of principal, I think there are plenty of people who would at the moment rather be for something. And that for is simply a change of government, which McCain will most certainly not be able to offer, especially with the Palin’s in tow. Even Hitchens has abandoned ship.

  • 6countyprod

    Oops, got it wrong earlier.

    This is Obama’s economic plan: Robbing hardworking (Peter) Plumber to pay lazy Paul.

    Hitch is merely returning to his first love, democratic socialism. Also, as an anti-theist, he has no problem with people like Obama, McCain and Biden who adhere to a very superficial religiosity, but serious observers of religious creeds, i.e. those who practice what they preach, like Palin, scare the dickens out of him.

  • Wilde Rover

    Willis,

    “Brilliant quote from Old Hickory.”

    I missed your comment earlier. A flawed character, certainly, but this really stands out. It’s hard to imagine any western leader coming out with something like this today.

    6countyprod,

    “Yea, the Iraqi utopia under Saddam was destroyed by those interferring westerners. Shame on them!”

    Saddam was a tool when he was needed and his brutality was tolerated at the time. The new puppet regime operates in much the same way as its predecessor did.

    I can’t fathom how you can show such concern for native Americans and such little concern for native Iraqis.

    Or perhaps Joe Stalin was right. Perhaps a million dead is just a statistic after all.

  • circles

    Actually one of the great things going for Hitchens is that he does not like religious extremists.
    Practicing what you each is by no means a virtue 6CP – especially when most of what you preach come out yer arse.
    And Palin actually isn’t exactly Miss Practice what you preach either. Indeed she has steadfastly refused to be pinned down on exactly what it is she believes – although we do all know now about her preacher. Where does God stand on the issue of the Iraq war Miss Palin ? Just how strong is your protection from witchcraft?

    This kind of “belief” should scare the Dickens out of everybody 6CP. It is pure, unreflected, unthinking, ignorant fundamentalism, pitched at the lowet common denominator and openly flirting with xenophobia and racism. Maybe she isn’t really that far from her husbands old party views – the Alaskan Independence Party. Maybe the question she should be answering is how does SHE see america.