Marketing the British Army

With Slugger award winning Belfast City Council recently having voted to stage a civic reception for British Armed Forces after their march through city centre streets, the route of the parade has appeared on the Parades Commission website. In what seems a badly planned and needlessly provocative gesture the destination will be Lanyon Place, directly opposite the only republican area in the city centre – the Markets, before dispersing for a civic reception presumable held in the Waterfront.

UPDATE: Strangely despite Belfast City Council being noted as the Applicant and Organiser of the parade queries to their press office on this matter are being directed to the Ministry of Defence.

  • martfart44

    oh great, the good old days are coming back lol

  • Greagoir O’ Frainclin

    Come to think of it, ah sure maybe the dissadent Republicans should be there in Belfast cheering the troops on too!
    After all British troops are out in Iraq risking life and limb so as to secure the flow of oil to the west, the same oil that the dissadents are laundering and smuggling in their muti-million pound operations!

  • Rory

    Just so long as Lanyon Place is within easy stoning district of the Markets I think all sides may come away satisfied.

  • Gary

    Or maybe those that either hate/disagree/despise or are indifferent to the Army will choose to ignore this reception and go about their daily business like the rest of us. OR is that just a little to much to ask?

  • Reader

    Mark McGregor: In what seems a badly planned and needlessly provocative gesture the destination will be Lanyon Place, directly opposite the only republican area in the city centre – the Markets,
    You can’t see Lanyon place from the Markets. The only people offended will be those who want to be offended, and are willing to make the effort.
    Unless you think that enclaves should have an exclusion zone that reaches out across main roads, high rise office blocks and 300 metres of distance.

  • Driftwood

    The parade is at 12.45, so most people in the Markets will still be in bed.

  • Mark McGregor

    Reader,

    The left turn from Oxford St into Lanyon Place is less than 100 metres from Friendly St and visible without anyone from the Markets going out of their way.

  • Dave

    So, if they can see someone in uniform, they’ll be compelled by an irresistible Pavlovian urge to fling bottles and stones at them? Perhaps the residents of the Market can be issued with horse blinkers for the duration of the parade in order to contain their violent tendencies?

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    Is the Parades Commission going to tell them they are not allowed to play/sing provocative songs/music such as GSTQ or Long Way to Tipp. and are not allowed to wear para/military costumes. If things do turn nasty, hopefuly they wont be carrying their weapons with them.

  • Brendan Tansey

    Tis a shame,
    After 30 years of trouble, some would think that we would recognise the other sides belefs and value’s but no

    Once again unionist’s ignore nationalists .

    The British army have no right in the present situation to march through Belfast just as the Irish army should not march through Belfast.

    Well done to the soldiers serving in Irag and Afghanistan, but I will be protesting against this injustice.

    Have we not learnt anything over the past 30years

    It seems that some have not. I PREDICT that f things continue the troubles might not be over

  • Ironically, you can sing “Tipperary” pretty much anywhere in the Republic without being considered “provocative”…

  • perry

    “The British army have no right in the present situation to march through Belfast just as the Irish army should not march through Belfast.”

    Irish Naval vessels are often in Belfast Harbour. I don’t remember any complaints.

    Come to think of it we could have been invaded by the Netherlands last week as they docked the whole of their landing capacity (two Rottedam class ships) in town.

    Anyway, these are the Royal Irish, not the Parachute Regiment and they’ll be being welcomed home by their friends and family.

    If you wanted some parity of esteem Brendan, how about suggesting that northern born Irish Army personnel should be permitted a Belfast parade in honour of their UN service and as a thank-you to their friends and family. I’m sure they’d be welcomed, just as the Irish Naval Service is.

  • Alan

    The British army have no right in the present situation to march through Belfast just as the Irish army should not march through Belfast……

    The equivilent surely would be the Irish Army marching through Dublin. I would refer you to the GFA and the acceptance of consent. Like it or not Northern Ireland is part of the UK and the army of the UK is the British Army. One day perhaps if there is Irish unity this will be different

  • barnshee

    “Lanyon Place, directly opposite the only republican area in the city centre ”

    Hardly

    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-emea-uk-goog-gm&utm_medium=ha&utm_term=map

    There are what? – 5 houses from where the parade may be visible?

    I suggest the rest of the markets use a judicious mixture of Skylights, mirrors periscopes ans telescopes if they want to have any chance of seeing the parade.

  • Driftwood

    Its a 20 minute parade through the city centre to a church service. It is not a sectarian parade. Simply a military homecoming, as happens elsewhere in the UK. Any protestors will simply embarrass themselves.

  • perry
  • Its a 20 minute parade through the city centre to a church service.

    A Church service?

    The Parades Commission calls it a “City Council Reception”, and the Waterfront Hall is not a church. Besides, what type of church service can cope with the beliefs or none of such a diverse group?

    Are you sure you’re not just recycling tired old OO arguments?

  • perry

    It seems that multi-denominational services are the very stuff of military chaplaincy in the Royal Irish M.Chevalier.

    http://www.shropshire.gov.uk/shropshireccnews.nsf/open/9931343B51E621BA802574D00049C07A

  • Rory

    You can’t see Lanyon place from the Markets. The only people offended will be those who want to be offended, and are willing to make the effort.

    Not so, Reader. I certainly cannot see Lanyon Place from Tottenham and I am offended. And not just because of the British Army’s appalling record in Ireland and its even more appalling record in Iraq and Afghanistan but because of all it is and all that it stands for and the shame of seeing Irish men and women serve in it.

    Furthermore, I certainly do not “want to be offended”. What a silly notion. I am quite offended by your suggestion.

  • Wilde Rover

    Brendan Tansey,

    “Well done to the soldiers serving in Irag and Afghanistan,”

    Well done for what?

    Managing the destruction of the Cradle of Civilization?

    Ensuring the price of smack is kept low?

  • no welcome

    eirigi have previously stated that they are going to protest against this. http://www.eirigi.org/latest/latest310808.html
    This British military parade by the UDR/RIR also creates a problem for Sinn Fein who have yet to state their position, but I’m sure many of their members and supporters will be waiting with interest to see what call Gerry makes.

  • Yvette Doll

    “Come to think of it we could have been invaded by the Netherlands last week as they docked the whole of their landing capacity (two Rottedam class ships) in town.”

    I remember HMS Fearless, same kind of deal, and it was a kind of invasion, Operation Motorman.

    They brought in old centurions to take down the barricades, about 21,000 troops being here then.

    Yvette Doll

  • Yvette Doll

    “This British military parade by the UDR/RIR also creates a problem for Sinn Fein who have yet to state their position, but I’m sure many of their members and supporters will be waiting with interest to see what call Gerry makes.”

    Why, who cares what he says? He is not the cupboard where we store the ‘1916’ memorabilia, things are different,

    why is it a problem, there is no prospect of conflict, that’s over, the issue is therefore not important, Gerry and Tony were chums.

  • Steve

    Yvette

    i will concede there is little likely conflict coming through PIRA but do you honestly believe ther is no chance of conflict at all

  • Driftwood

    Martin and Gerry signed SF up for the British Army garrison to remain here. They can hardly complain if the legitimate army of the state they help to govern wants to have a thanksgiving parade. There may be a few 9 year old ‘blue baggers’ wanting to have a go, but easily dealt with. 2 cans of special brew each should buy them off.

  • dunreavynomore

    GREAGIOIR “DISSADENT REPUBLICANS…”

    Take a look around you and see just who have established “the multi million £ operations” and i’m afraid you will find ‘main stream’ and even ‘army council’ provisionals well to the fore if not in front by a flying mile. Just think of the slabs, for instance and start working out from there, don’t ignore Belfast either in your search to the millionaire ‘republicans’ and enquire in sth armagh which families have bought up the farms around the border area, not dissadents.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    I find it hard to believe that this boils down to a unionist/nationalist thing. There’s bound to be decent unionists in the six counties who find the British involvement in the Afghan/Iraq bloodbath a shameful thing. Tell me there’s even one. No matter what that bloatee Nolan says. You can’t support the army and not support the war.

  • Buzz

    Slightly off topic but I wonder if Reg Empey supports his Ballymena councillor who said on another forum today that he would take pleasure in those opposing this parade being “taken out and killed”. Is this what the people of the markets have in store for them?

    http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=9661.0

  • Driftwood

    You can’t support the army and not support the war.

    Yes you can. The Army goes where it’s told. No saying ” I don’t want to go”. Blame Bush (and Blair) for the war if you want. I dare say there are many British and American troops who don’t want to be there.
    That’s not the point. Show me another job where courage and self sacrifice are as prevalent.
    And much of the rebuilding work they do in Afghan communities etc

  • perry

    “You can’t support the army and not support the war”

    in which case,

    You can’t support the NHS and not support abortion

    You can’t support teachers and not support the 11+

    You can’t support the police and not support 6 week remand

    and pretty much

    You can’t support public sector workers and not support government policy

    Seems a bit extreme but then…

    “You can’t be a British Civil Servant and not be an agent of British Imperialism” has been a handy excuse for years so people are just being consistent.

  • RepublicanStones

    An occupying army welcomed ‘home’ after playing lapdog to the neo-con zionist warmongers of the good old USA. The fact that its the BRITISH army and the sordid history they have here in Ireland(remember that keeping the natives down increases your promotional prospects) I think people have a right to a little put off, never mind the current neo-colonial exploits. Let them have their little parade, wave their little butchers aprons and regale their kin with tales of how they put manners on those ‘horrid brown people’. Reminds me of a tune….

    ‘Come tell us how you slew
    Those brave Arabs two by two
    Like the Zulus they had spears and bows and arrows..’

  • Pancho’s Horse

    perry, you must be a horse if you exude horseshit and I should know.I suppose you must support the provos 30 year war if you are a republican. Read your nonsensical post again. Wasn’t that the stock answer of the other Nazis – “I was just following orders” If you see something going on in Iraq and it is against your conscience, then you leave the army, Otherwise you SUPPORT the ary, gettit?

  • JT O’Sullivan

    The British Army and the US Army in Iraq and Afganistan are not doing what they did to Ireland over the hundrends of years. They are working hard to rebuild society there and allow democracy to take place. Where is the Oil you speak of in Afganistan??? Obviously you can disagree with them being there but soldiers are professionals who do what their elected leaders tell them to do. The rank and file of both armies carry themselves with honor for the most part, but I’m sure their are clandestine units who do things like use murder gangs to their advantage. That shouldn’t make every soldier a monster.

    The march is dumb anyway. I live in the US and they never have marches off of army bases except for maybe Memorial Day.

  • perry

    “the other Nazis”

    “other?”

    Can you not make a point without accusing someone of being a Nazi PH? It’s like listening to the “Young Ones”.

  • RepublicanStones

    Nobody mentioned oil in Afghanistan. Theres plenty ‘o the black gold in Iraq, but thats only half the story. For the other half you may need to write to AIPAC or the ADL.

  • Rory

    “The British Army and the US Army in Iraq and Afganistan are not doing what they did to Ireland over the hundrends of years.”

    Tell that to the relatives and friends of the many thousands of innocents they have slaughtered in Afghanistan and Iraq, JT Sullivan. I am sure it will make them feel a lot happier.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    I mean other fascists who are not specifically members of the German Nazi party. Of course there were good German soldiers too who didn’t support the war but it didn’t stop them from killing.All soldiers are no more no less than hired killers and gunmen. Some are paid in the achievement of their ideologies and some are paid in the Queen’s shilling.Take your pick.And none of this sh*t about helping to build democracy in Iraq etc. That’s why they were in Ireland too, remember?

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘They are working hard to rebuild society…’

    Yeah after shock and awe-ing the shit out of it first !

  • Reader

    Rory: And not just because of the British Army’s appalling record in Ireland and its even more appalling record in Iraq and Afghanistan but because of all it is and all that it stands for and the shame of seeing Irish men and women serve in it.
    It’s not like the whole army is marching through Belfast – just a locally raised unit that seems to have had a perfectly decent record during its time in Afghanistan. And rule by the Taliban seems to be the only alternative.
    But, from Tottenham, you can cast a vote to change matters. You will have the option to vote for ‘Respect’, won’t you? You only need to persuade a plurality of voters to see things your way and you can remove the British Army as an obstacle to the re-creation of a Taliban state.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    But RS if you had been listening to that general that Nolan was crawling to this morning – The Allies were INVITED into Afghanistan. Will they leave when the Taliban INVITE them to?

  • RepublicanStones

    Never heard it Pancho, but I can guess. We know from history they don’t seem to listen to what the natives say, because John Bull knows best.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    JT O’Sullivan

    In the recent case where the Engleze army admitted that some of its number were involved in beating an Iraqi to death their response to this event was – not to charge the culprits with murder – but to re-educate the soldiers during hastily arranged training sessions that it was in fact unacceptable to beat people to death. Great stuff form the ‘professionals’.

    Some of us were naive enough to think that this might have been touched on at some stage before they were released on the streets armed to the teeth. But I suppose given the way they have blown eight colours of shit out of Iraq, and killed many, many civilians in the process – mostly from the safety of thousands of feet in the air – this is probably par for the course.

    You can just imagine what they have been getting up to miles away from prying eyes in Afghanistan in the fight against ‘terrorists’ – who accoring to the top Engleze soldier this week may not be terrorists after all. More rreat stuff form the ‘professionals’

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Still waiting for a loyalist/unionist who thinks the war is shameful …………

  • JT O’Sullivan

    Shiite militias, Sunni insurgents, and foreign jihadists have killed the majority of civilians in Iraq, not western military personnal. My cousin, who is in the 10th Mountain Division, has told me they have to err on the side of caution to avoid killing civilians almost to the point of absurdity. This is probably equally because they need to win over the hearts of minds of locals to finally as much as it is to avoid maimed civilians who the press love to cover. According to him many enemy fighters who die with a gun in their hand shooting from a heavily populated residential center are often claimed as civilians to the press by local insurgent press officers. I can only take him at his word.

    So RStones, we are in Afghanistan because of the Jews? NOthing to do with the Taliban government allowing Al Queda to train and live there while they plotted 9/11? Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

    Oh, I forgot, the Jews knew about 9/11 beforehand.

  • Dave

    “But I suppose given the way they have blown eight colours of shit out of Iraq Belfast, and killed many, many civilians in the process – mostly from the safety of thousands of feet in the air away- this is probably par for the course. ” – It Was Sammy

    Agreed, but what has the cowardly actions of PIRA got to do with this?

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Remember ‘nam, JT when the yanks pulled out with their tails between their legs. The Aussies had pulled out earlier and your buddies in the UK didn’t commit. Do you never learn. Stay out of other people’s countries.

  • RepublicanStones

    Yet again JT me ‘aul flower you don’t seem to read posts. Here have another glance at mine…

    ‘Nobody mentioned oil in Afghanistan. Theres plenty ‘o the black gold in Iraq, but thats only half the story. For the other half you may need to write to AIPAC or the ADL.’

    You see, now (perhaps read it just once more…) I was referring to Iraq. Also nobody mentioned ‘the Jews’. I mentioned 2 very prominent and powerful lobby groups in the USA, and yes there is plenty of evidence to show they were encouraging the Bush adminstration to invade Iraq. Oh and by the way brainbox, there weren’t too many ‘foreign jihadists’ in Iraq prior to the invasion were there? Never mind the foreign mercs who have a fire at will zone in the whole country.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    Dave, spoken like a true free stater.

  • Driftwood

    PH
    I’m from a Unionist background. I despise the DUP, TUV and think the UUP are pitiful, but nevermind. I think the war in Iraq was a shameful self serving act by the Bush administration, blithely followed by Rev Blair. I think Afghanistan is a hopeless mess but I’m unsure of the consequences if our troops leave. The point is that the Royal Irish Rangers, and their fellow NATO soldiers, are doing a job that few would wish to do at pathetic rates of pay and shite conditions by their employer.
    Their families and society (at least some of it) wish to honour that commitment. It’s no big deal to 90% of NI population. The parade is for the ordinary squaddie. If you don’t like them ignore the parade. That’s the right you have in a democracy.

  • It was Sammy Mc Nally what done it

    JT O’Sullivan,

    a few bad apples or a few good eggs – pick your mertaphor to suit your ideology.

    Leaving aside their performance in Norn Iron – have you ever seen the British army off duty of an evening, in a German city for example?. Not the type of guys you would like to bump into. Are you seriously suggesting that they play by the rules when they are let loose far from home? Re. civilian deaths – they dont even bother to count who they kill – presumably because the figures are so appalling.

    Dave,

    its refreshing to hear from a Unionist suggesting moral equivalence between the Provos and the Englezes – you do have your moments.

  • Pancho’s Horse

    From your first line you don’t have much going for you.But if you can step into our shoes, this is another poppy selling in your face we’re british and youse can do nothing about it cause we have the guns. Now if I had a son in the BA (which I KNOW will never happen) I would be glad to see him home but I don’t need another PARADE.

  • Driftwood

    PH
    I posted on a thread ages ago, that i’m not sure the soldiers want this parade very much. A good 3 course meal and free booze will appeal more. And maybe a bigger MoD grant for housing. Possibly a bit of respect from the community that they come from. They aren’t stupid, realising that’s not gonna come from the nationialist community. Surely it’s not beyond the nationalist perspective to let them have their day in the sun and move on. They will. 20 minutes on a sunday lunchtime. Is it such a big deal?
    BTW my next vote will be Alliance or SDLP, because I’m embarrassed by everybody else. Except Michelle McIlveen of course.

  • LURIG

    I can definately see protests along the line of the Love Ulster rally in Dublin. This is Unionists once again trying to rubber stamp total ownership of Belfast. However this is 2008 not 1958 and this march will attract anti-War protestors too. At a time when Unionists are denying ANY semblance and recognition of Irish Nationalists up at Stormont they expect Catholics to sit back and have ALL vestiges of Loyalist/Unionism shoved down their faces at every turn. No wonder many Shinners and some within the SDLP are losing faith in so called ‘shared government’. It is nothing of the sort, it is back to the bad old days of Unionist misrule and rubbing the Taigs noses in it AND this is just another example of it.

  • Wilde Rover

    JT O’Sullivan,

    “NOthing to do with the Taliban government allowing Al Queda to train and live there while they plotted 9/11?”

    We are talking about the same Afghan fighters that were trained and funded by the CIA? The same ones that were used in the proxy war against the USSR? The same ones who were transported to fight in Kosovo during the nineties? The same ones that were pictured visiting the Whitehouse? The same ones who turned on their masters and refused to allow a pipeline through Afghanistan?

    “The British Army and the US Army in Iraq and Afganistan are not doing what they did to Ireland over the hundrends of years. They are working hard to rebuild society there and allow democracy to take place.”

    Are we talking about the same Iraq that was ruled by US puppet Saddam for all those years against that perennial bogeyman Iran? His brutal dictatorship was fine up until the nineties.

    But you are living in the US, where the koolaid flows freely and yesterday is a stranger.

  • Rory

    If this news alert from the New York Times is to believed the US-led coalition of Western capital may be realising that they have bitten off much more than they can chew in Afghanistan:

    Breaking News Alert
    The New York Times
    Wednesday, October 8, 2008 — 9:44 PM ET
    —–

    U.S. Study Is Said to Warn of Crisis in Afghanistan

    A draft report by American intelligence agencies concludes
    that Afghanistan is in a “downward spiral” and casts serious
    doubt on the ability of the Afghan government to stem the
    rise in the Taliban’s influence there, according to American
    officials familiar with the document.

    Read More:
    http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

    Maybe they’ll have to send the heroes of the RIR back to “sort it all out”.

    “Right then, lads. You’ve had yer parade and you’ve had yer dinner – now, your country needs you once again. Fuck off back and kill some more wogs!”

  • eranu

    mark, do you not think the old pretending to be offended by something as a way to attack the things you dont like, is getting a bit tired?
    everyone and their dog knows its a childish game. trying to link the area around the waterfront to the markets is pretty desperate to be honest. these stunts are so out of place in this day and age, probably a bit of an embarassment for the average resident in the markets for someone to try and portray them as being all upset that some soldiers are dandering about outside the waterfront hall. i mean come on, have a bit of self respect !! 🙂

  • Driftwood

    Rory
    You mean “ragheads”. “Wogs” are Indian
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_Gowen

  • JT O’Sullivan

    Well, Wilde Rover,

    I am aware of things that happened yesterday. Obviously, the invasion of Iraq was a blunder.

    As for Afghanistan…so we arm the jihadist to fight off an invasion/occupation by our enemy the Soviet Union. If these same jihadists, 20 years later, start using their resources and land we helped them secure to train and send off terrorists to attack us we have no right to take them out? We should just let them have a free go of it? Just because we helped them in their fight against the Bolsheviks doesn’t tie our hands in the are indefinately.

  • Wilde Rover

    JT o’Sullivan,

    “As for Afghanistan…so we arm the jihadist to fight off an invasion/occupation by our enemy the Soviet Union. If these same jihadists, 20 years later, start using their resources and land we helped them secure to train and send off terrorists to attack us we have no right to take them out? We should just let them have a free go of it? Just because we helped them in their fight against the Bolsheviks doesn’t tie our hands in the are indefinately.”

    Except you didn’t take them out, or even make a good effort to do so.

    Why kill the bogeyman, when you can continue with the endless war?

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘..we have no right to take them out?’

    Indeed you do, those responsible. Not bomb the shit out of the country, and install a puppet regime which is a photocopy of the Taliban.

    http://www.asadismi.ws/joya.html

  • Typical 26 county wankology from my namesake, trust you and your banana republic Dublin attitudes to bring the Provos into it. I suppose you cheered for joy when MI5/Loyalists killed 26 people in your capital shitty in 1974? You see we can all go off topic…fuckhead!

  • Yvette Doll

    “i will concede there is little likely conflict coming through PIRA but do you honestly believe ther is no chance of conflict at all”

    I want Catholicism as a cultural template, republicanism, has shifted so far away from where I am, I’ve no idea what it is, either as a factor of electoralism, or as schismatic parts.

    I may live in West Belfast, but I am quite badly informed as to where SF is or where it will be going. I find them quite obfuscatory, and they just don’t like me. I’m the last person to ask.

    I’ve no idea, to be honest.

    Yvette Doll

  • Yvette Doll

    Come tell us how you slew
    Those brave Arabs two by two
    Like the Zulus they had spears and bows and arrows..’

    I love that song. It reminds me of the sharpened mango thing in blackadder,

    ‘When I joined up we were still fighting colonial wars. If you saw someone in a skirt you shot him and nicked his country.’

    Splendid stuff, that reminds me of school.

    “the prerequisite for any battle was that the enemy should under no circumstances carry guns”.

    Brilliant

    Yvette

  • I hope these same folks who spurn muslims without knowing them don’t claim to be Christian too….. Their attitude is anything but Christian.So much fear and anger preached to control votes and enact agendas leads to a populace that is paranoid and hostile (xenophobic). Great – that’s what happened during WWII when we locked up US Citizens who had Japanese ancestry.People who fear are the most volatile, and the least likely to think before they act….