“the trouble is ongoing and motorists should avoid the area..”

According to the BBC report, a small number of petrol bombs and stones were thrown at police in the Belfast last night when “what the PSNI has called “sporadic” disturbances broke out in Cromac Street, the Markets, Lower Ormeau, Lower Newtownards Road and Short Strand areas” – no reports of injuries or arrests. In County Armagh today, where the ‘gangs’ seem somewhat more lethally equipped, “at least one blast bomb, as well as bottles, stones and petrol bombs have been thrown at police investigating a security alert [in the Tullygally and Drumbeg areas of Craigavon]”. Motorists are being asked to avoid the area. Update BBC report a number of shots fired at a police patrol in Craigavon at around 8pm. And they quote Sinn Féin MLA John O’Dowd.

Sinn Fein assembly member John O’Dowd said: “I would appeal to everyone involved in the trouble to stop it now before someone is either injured or killed. “This is not a game, this is not fun, what we’ve seen tonight is actually attempted murder. Please stop it now before someone is killed.”

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  • Ulsters my homeland

    The credit crunch isn’t worth it. People in N.I. today get so wound up over nothing.

  • Suilven

    Sinn Fein rattling the sabre?

  • esmereldavillalobos

    Is this just the usual silly season, end of the summer hols hoods up to no good or is there something more organised behind it? Anyone on the ground care to comment?

  • s&e;

    The stuff in belfast is schoolchildren hoods organising their kicks on bebo…

  • For the most part normal people living and working in this part of Ireland thought recreational rioting belonged to a bygone era, i.e., the bad-old – sad-old days and ways that didn’t work. Sporadic disturbance’s can happen almost anywhere for a multiplicity of reasons. Excluding the ever so remote possibility!! Of political crisis creation? the horrendous summer weather and back to school, its difficult for me to imagine any additional scenario. Jus sayin like!.

  • Earnan

    Excuse my ignorance, but is this happening in a Catholic or Prod area?

  • Finn McCool

    Catholic area Earnan.

    I noticed conti grafitti going up last week after the area being quiet for a while, no doubt this was planned after they phoned in a bomb threat at the start of the week.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I don’t believe SF are behind this. It’s schoolkids.

    The idea that the police should be issuing warnings to people not to go to certain areas is preposterous. The PSNI need to go in with riot gear and tear gas.

  • The Raven

    Hmmm. Images of police going in against schoolkids in the front line. Using batons and stuff.

    Wonder where I have seen that before….?

  • dactur hugh

    Comrade Stalin,
    On the one hand, you state that it’s ‘only schoolkids’ involved in the rioting yet you then advise the Police to go in with riot gear and CS gas. lol……

  • Driftwood

    Send in the Paras

  • Ulsters my homeland

    It’s the end of the school holidays, the kids need rid of built up aggression.

  • Comrade Stalin

    dactur hugh,

    When schoolkids are throwing petrol and blast bombs, damaging property, endangering life and turning neighbourhoods into war zones that the police have to plead with the public to stay away from, the fact that they are schoolkids seems less important. It needs to be explained to them that there are consequences to this shit. You don’t just sit back and let them get on with it.

  • dactur hugh

    It was you who said that they were ‘only schoolkids’. Send in the CS (Comrade Stalin) Gas anyway…lol

  • Ulsters my homeland

    “[i]It needs to be explained to them that there are consequences to this shit. You don’t just sit back and let them get on with it.”[/i]

    but IRA/Sinn Fein will step in and claim the police are heavy handed

  • Subuteo Sonicalo

    Ernan

    I guess you meant Nationalist or Loyalist? The Vatican and Croatia are Catholic areas. Some of the greatest early Irish Republicans were Protestants.

    The Lower Ormeau Road is predominantly Sunni, becoming mildly Shia as you move towards Cromac Street.

    As you move West towards Donegall Pass the Chinese Falung Gong sect start to prevail.

  • billie-Joe Remarkable

    Is it still going on? I could shift some pairs of track-bottoms out the back of my van

  • Mr E Mann

    >On the one hand, you state that
    >it’s ‘only schoolkids’ involved in
    >the rioting yet you then advise the
    >Police to go in with riot gear and CS gas. >lol……

    If he’d said they should go in with canes and paddles, he would have sounded too much like an Englishman 🙂

  • I tend to think it is Sinn Fein led. Obviously they’re not getting their way at the moment.

    SDLP MLA Dolores Kelly was injured after calling to a meeting in Lurgan tonight when youths in balaclavas also smashed her windscreen. Dissident anger tends to be at Sinn Fein not the SDLP.

  • joeCanuck

    ”It needs to be explained to them that there are consequences to this shit. You don’t just sit back and let them get on with it.”

    Exactly. The public shouldn’t have to put up with this nonsense from the poor weans.

  • Pete Baker

    “Is it still going on?”

    Apparently so, b-JR.

    See the update to the original post.

  • Ulsters my homeland

    anyone heard anything more about the IRA stall at the Lammas fair. It was on TALK BACK today and Moyle Council was trying to explain why they allowed an illegal organisation to set up a stall in it’s district.

  • tienan

    you van wouldn’t last long before going up in smoke billie-Joe !

  • tienan

    your

  • percy

    UMH
    Well you got that one wrong, see SF statement.
    Seems like you don’t get much right.

  • Comrade Stalin

    It was you who said that they were ‘only schoolkids’

    Actually I didn’t. What I said is right there near the top of the thread. If I had used the word “only” it would have changed the meaning.

  • LURIG

    Driftwood

    ‘send in the Paras’??

    No can do, they are having seven shades of shite kicked out of them in Helmand province as we speak. They have more important things on their mind. Any reports of innocent civilians shot in the back there yet?

  • Albert

    Sinn Fein In “We’re Not Getting Our Way With Policing And Justice At Stormont So We’ll Start Some Street Disturbance To Scare Everyone” Shocker!

  • Ulsters my homeland

    What SF statement, Percy?

  • percy

    UMH
    Can you read the thread above? John o’Dowd?

  • LURIG

    These youths were caught on TV throwing petrol bombs and bricks so obviously they are going to be scooped sooner rather than later. It is crazy, what are they trying to achieve here? Sinn Fein and the IRA are NOT involved in this, that much is obvious. After watching the Sinn Fein MLA getting decked in Ballymena it is obvious that ‘mainstream’ Republicans have NO control in many of these areas anymore and those trying to make political capital out of it by blaming the Provos & Shinners are doing so for their own reasons. The Republican heirarchy are growing old and a younger breed are laughing at and mocking them. When did grey, baldy pensioners ever tell young people what to do? This is happening everywhere; Ardoyne, New Lodge, Lower Falls, Derry, North Antrim, Lurgan etc. It is the society we live in and yes there probably are sinister individuals trying to exploit this.

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    It’s absolutely ludicrous for anyone to claim that SF is behind this trouble due to their present difficulties in Stormont, however attractive a scenario that may be for their enemies.

    It’s abundantly clear to anyone trying to maintain a balanced view of what’s happening in NI that there remains a significant body of militant, anti-Stormont, Republicans capable of engaging in civil disorder and attacking the police.

    Also, those who claim that these people have no strategy are very wrong too. The strategy is to continue to demonstrate that NI is a failed political entity by resisting all attempts to normalise society. If they could get the army back on the streets, they certainly would, and, indeed, that might just be a short-term goal.

    At the moment, they are finding it easy to argue, within the broad Republican constituency, that the SF peace project has been a farce, particularly those in Republican Sinn Fein, who have also won the argument with the 32CSM over who’s analysis has been right.

    They are arguing that, given the revelations around the nature and length of the working relationship between the leadership of Sinn Fein and the British establishment, those who followed the Adam’s leadship after the recognition of the Dail should now accept that they were wrong to do so. That they were being led by the nose towards the current dispensation. It’s a difficult argument for someone in the 32CSM to counter.

    Also, they are pointing at SF’s current position in Stormont, fighting what they are arguing is a losing battle with the DUP for legislative trinkets such as an Irish language act, when it used to about driving the British forces out Ireland altogether.

    Therefore the CIRA are emboldened. They can argue easily, in terms of the broad, traditional Republican analysis, that they were right all along.

    So, what we may be seeing, is the result of a new confidence, a growing belief that the armed struggle can be re-ignited. This is an organisation which has been silent for years. Now there has been a culvert bomb attempt, an attempt to launch a home-made RPG, a gun attack and a blast bomb thrown during a riot, all in a relatively short period of time.

    I think that the SDLP and SF need to ask themselves what they are doing wrong. How come they have failed to convince all of their community that what they are doing is the best way forward? How on earth are they losing the argument, in some quarters, with the dissidents? How come, there are those who do not see the advances made over the last decade or so?

    We all know (or at least we all should know by now) that there is no ‘security solution’ to political violence, only a political one. And in NI, the political solution to Republican political violence can only be provided by the Irish people. That is to demonstrate a viable and convincing strategy for achieving the aim of building a new nation on the island of Ireland and, if necessary, by using non-violent means to bring about adherance to the will of the vast majority of the Irish people which is to realise the national project without the use of armed struggle.

  • victor1

    “How come, there are those who do not see the advances made over the last decade or so?”

    What advances, the reasons for the violence are clear as daylight, nothing has changed !!! British interference continues in Ireland and until that is removed there will always be a body of militant Republicans prepared to use force to challenge that. The stalling tactics used by Unionists creates the void for militancy to raise its ugly head, my fear is if they continue as is likely, we could find ourselves very quickly back in the quagmire of death and destruction. What happened to the overseers of the peace process ? British/Irish/American governments seem to care little as to what is going on, and should be held responsible for the current impass, they need to act now to bring some impetus back before its too late.

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    aye, typical republican attitude there victor, blame everyone but yourselves…. mopery, mopery, mopery….

  • victor1

    LoL Republican !!! you gotta be kidding me, you couldn’t be further from the truth, LOL

  • Comrade Stalin

    Damien,

    I think that the SDLP and SF need to ask themselves what they are doing wrong. How come they have failed to convince all of their community that what they are doing is the best way forward?

    Woa, there. Nobody ever said that the SDLP or SF would be able to bring their entire community with them. Indeed, it’s remarkable that they’ve been able to bring along this many for this long.

    What is developing here is not political violence, but gangland activity. It’ll migrate from attacking the police and burning out cars, into organized crime. Stiff enforcement action is required to nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand.

  • victor1

    The problem here Comrade Stalin is the Police do not have the will to enforce, you will find that some of those involved in organising the violence are working with the active support of some from within that same police service.

  • Albert

    Yes but it’s quite amazing that this recent upsurge in “dissident” activity coincides with Sinn Fein not getting their way in Stormont.

    If Sinn Fein want Gordon Browns attention why don’t they just phone him?

  • Garibaldy

    So in the eyes of some this activity is not the dissidents trying to take advantage of instability to promote their own agenda, and if they’re lucky bring down the assembly; instead it’s the provos trying to manoeuvre for better position within the assembly. Do people really believe this? Is it not obvious that a police officer being killed is the last thing the provos want at this stage?

  • slug

    The working class unionist had some of these problems in the late 1990s early 2000s (as recently as 2005!). Nationalist communities now seem to be going through them. It is part of the evolution process as we move away from a top-down control of our local communities ?

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    Comrade Stalin,

    [i]Nobody ever said that the SDLP or SF would be able to bring their entire community with them.[/i]

    If Nationalists cannot assert their democratic sovereignty over those within our own community, how can we ever hope to assert it over the British establishment. And murdering people like Joe O’Connor is not the way forward. Only argument and persuasion, and non-violent protest and direct action if necessary, will work.

    When Gandhi’s campaigns of non-violence were interupted by violence by Indian militants he would call off his campaigns until they stopped the violence. He also used other forms of protest to put pressure on them to stop.

    No-one in their right minds would argue that the vast majority of the Irish people is against armed struggle. Those, in the very small minority who support its use, should obey the will of the Irish people.

  • iluvni

    How come Semtex suddenly made a reappearance on the scene last week?
    Surely Sinn Fein/IRA had that all destroyed. ahem.
    It was brought out again when it was necessary to give a little reminder that unless there’s movement on p&j;, ‘they havent gone away you know’.

  • violence rules ok

    How on earth are they losing the argument, in some quarters, with the dissidents?

    Because censoring silencing beating threatening maiming intimidating and killing them obviously was not the correct strategy to pursue in regards to engagement with dissidents

    10 years of that nonsense and this is the payoff

    Smart eh

    NOT!

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    Violence rules ok:

    [i]Because censoring silencing beating threatening maiming intimidating and killing them obviously was not the correct strategy to pursue in regards to engagement with dissidents[/i]

    I just said that in the same post you quoted from, only not in those words.

  • Garibaldy

    iluvni,

    the dissidents had used semtex before. Given that their weapons initially came from Provo stocks, it should be no surprise that they have some, as the Police themselves said.

  • victor1

    How come Semtex suddenly made a reappearance on the scene last week?
    Surely Sinn Fein/IRA had that all destroyed. ahem.

    Hard to believe people are willing to drag up this old chestnut, wise up, the so called mainstream Republican movement has long since moved on from violent protest, get over it. Semtex I’m sure could be available to anyone with the determination to get it, its not like the six numbers in the lottery.

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    Barney Rowan has a piece in the BT pointing to a PIRA statement from 1999 about a weapons theft from one or more of their dumps:

    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/weapons-lsquotheftrsquo-that-stocked-up-dissidentsrsquo-terror-arsenal-13954185.html

  • iluvni

    Perhaps we should then be told how much Semtex was destroyed, how much there was in the first place and how much might still be out there in the hands of some of his ex-(?)-Republican comrades in arms…just so we all know what we’re up against.
    Perhaps the deputy frist minister might like to issue a statement.

    perhaps wee jeffrey might want to take up the issue too.

  • Damien Okado-Gough

    iluvni

    [i]Perhaps we should then be told how much Semtex was destroyed, how much there was in the first place and how much might still be out there in the hands of some of his ex-(?)-Republican comrades in arms…just so we all know what we’re up against.[/i]

    Perhaps that information has already been given to the police. I imagine that it has. If it hasn’t then the sure-fire way to see it done is to devolve policing and justice to Stormont.

  • victor1

    And perhaps we should all be told what the first minister had for breakfast this morning or if the Deputy first minister had milk with his cornflakes!
    There is no doubt that those who willingly partake in violence also have the will to procure arms, of whatever ilk, and to use them at will, at least we have the satisfaction of knowing the Provisional IRA has achieved some form of mass decommissioning, that cannot be stated of Loyalist weapons, so how about an inventory of those weapons or better again an act of decommissioning from them to instill confidence in those from a Nationalist/Republican background that all is well and they’ve nothing to fear from that quarter.

  • joeCanuck

    From the Telly:
    PSNI accused of heavy-handedness in Craigavon

    See, it’s all the fault of the police.

  • Finn McCool

    There is a nice video doing the rounds of police knocking someones door down, I learnt years ago during raids it’s always better to answer it.

  • The poor wee dissidents, the nasty peelers want to lift them for minor offences like attempted murder. Maybe we should do what Damian and “Violence Rules OK” want and set up an EU funded aromatherapy workshop for them and give them some ‘community worker’ jobs so they can strut their stuff in a working-class community that wants nothing to do with them for £30k a year.

  • Earnan

    I found this from a “Republican Bulletin Board”

    ‘Enemy forces have come under blast bomb, petrol bomb and stone and bottle attack in the Drumbeg and Tullygally areas of Craigavon.

    Cars and lorries have been hijacked and set on fire and police vehicles damaged as the trouble continued, motorists were being warned to avoid the area.

    The resistance occured as a series of bomb warnings were checked by the Colonial Constabulary and the area around a burnt out, hijacked car in Ardowen was searched.

    Nothing was found during the serch operation.’

    The spirit of Pearse, O’Malley, and the likes lives on…

  • victor1

    Why not go the whole hog Sammy and make them MLAs give them £52,000 before bonus, and they could then sit and do nothing like the present bunch, they wouldn’t even need to strut, unless there was an oul parade or two or even a dander along a Donegal beach past the oul homestead.

  • james

    Why are loyalsts from Pitt Park throwing petrol bombs?

  • Victor1 – fair point.