Simmer

The Belfast Telegraph reports that the row about the UUP/Tory link-up and OO links continues to simmer inside the UUP.

  • Zoonpol

    Why does the former CAD Minister make this remark, after all being a man of ‘culture’ he is prefers dark-age superstitions over the advances made in science during and post-enlightenment age!
    Would it not have been more apt if Alderman The Rt. Hon. Jeffrey Donaldson Junior Minister MLA MP PC (and god knows what else he does) who is also a past-assistant grand master of the Orange Order made the above critique or is the fact that he is employed by the office of the self-confessed former IRA commander of Derry prevent him from commenting?

  • Jilted

    er, no shit – hapless leader tries to force entire party to the right wing – of course there are going to be problems.

    stupid bloody move in the first place

  • bisto

    I have no doubt, the senior UUP sources were the back-room boys pushing this, some of whom were openly demanding McNarry be strung up because he defended the Orange Institution – a key element of the UUP voter base!

  • truth and justice

    I wonder if Lady hermon is considerin going as an independent if the UUP join with the Conservatives we know she is already unhappy with Sir Regs leadership.

  • Rooster Cogburn

    I wonder when McNarry is going to start going public with Reg’s own past behaviour? When this link-up was last seriously in prospect – Trimble and Duncan Smith stitched up a deal – infamously it was derailed by . . . Reg. As someone who has always favoured both bits of the old Tory party getting back into bed, I wouldn’t half minding why Reg has changed his mind.

  • Rooster Cogburn

    “… mind knowing …”

  • Insolent

    Perhaps a particularly pushy backround boy?

  • Zoonpol

    I thought the OO and the DUP are now buddies?

  • bisto

    The OO and the DUP have worked closely on lots of things and the OO would be right to maintain relationships with both main parties, but it seems clear that some UUP people and their new-found friends in the Tories have nothing but contempt for the Orange Order – which raises an interesting question for UUP people who are Orangemen or involved in the “tribal swamp” of Ulster/Protestant culture.

  • The Raven

    “…an interesting question for UUP people who are Orangemen or involved in the “tribal swamp” of Ulster/Protestant culture.”

    Then let the party be rid of them. Once and for all. Let’s take another step towards removing this “cultural and historical” “society” from politics once and for all.

  • bisto

    Let the party be rid of them? So about half of the MLAs?, more than third of the councillors and most of the donors should just bugger off because they don’t fit in with cuddly Dave’s image? That’s an election winning strategy if ever I saw one!

    This is pure unadultarated Trimbleism – “let’s crap all over the Orange and the elusive garden centre prods will rush to support us” Problem is the GCPs don’t come out and the Orange people simply move en masse to the DUP.

  • The Raven

    Then so be it. There’s only place to go when you’re at the bottom and that’s up. The UUP know that – all the crap that’s happened over the past two years notwithstanding – that reorganisation is going to take 2-3 elections. A Unionist party that is genuinely free of this yoke would certainly get my vote – and those of substantial others.

    But it would take courage that frankly is a step too far.

  • The Raven

    By the way – GCP? Is there any element of the Protestant population that DOESN’T have a derogatory terms attached to it…?

  • In which respect has the UUP ‘crapped all over’ the OO? There are no splits in the UUP over the Tory issue. No UUP attack was launched on the OO. There should be distance between a political party and a cultural organisation, the two are not the same. There is no issue to discuss here, as McNarry himself has stated in the News Letter today.

  • bisto

    Chekov

    Hmmm…let’s see now, when the UUP was the largest party did they actually do anthing at all for the Loyal Orders. They (the UUP leadership) tried to price the Orange Order off the UUC and left them in the position where they had to jump before they were pushed.

    Furthermore, I personally know people who were called Orange Bastards at UUC meetings because they wouldn’t back Trimble.

    As for your no splits claim. Time will tell.

    True enough there was no direct UUP attack on the Orange Order. They’re too busy attacking the singing of the National Anthem. Some Unionism there, eh?

  • The Orange Order had no place being in the UUC. It was highly necessary that their presence be removed. I personally am highly dubious about your other claim.

    And the national anthem thing is utterly laughable! Suggesting that a debate might be instigated to provide Northern Ireland (not the UK notice, because there isn’t a UK football team) be furnished with its own football anthem, is not ‘attacking the singing of the National Anthem’.

    Anyway, jug eared Poots’ response is what is really getting NI fans angry. How dare he try and speak for the GAWA?

  • ZoonPol
  • bisto

    Chekov

    “Anyway, jug eared Poots’ response is what is really getting NI fans angry.”

    Excellent. Resort to name-calling. How very funny. Do you have big shoes and a red nose also?

    “The Orange Order had no place being in the UUC”

    Why don’t you just be honest and say – “The Orange Order HAS no place in the UUP” – that is clearly what you think. Pity your leader hasn’t the guts to say it.

    “How dare he try and speak for the GAWA?”

    And yet you just have……

  • bisto

    “I personally am highly dubious about your other claim.”

    No my claim the claim of two very senior Orangemen who were told “see you two Orange bastards from **************, f*ck off and stay there”. Needless to say neither are any longer members of the great, inclusive, tolerant, one-nation UUP.

  • “Why don’t you just be honest and say – “The Orange Order HAS no place in the UUP” – that is clearly what you think. Pity your leader hasn’t the guts to say it.”

    It would be an odd thing to say – what with him being an Orangeman and all.

    “And yet you just have…..”

    Perhaps because I actually bother to gauge what football supporters are saying. it certainly isn’t ‘good for Pootsie, well said’. The actuality is that Northern Ireland supporters have done a lot of work to make games inclusive affairs and they certainly don’t appreciate this idiot (who has already campaigned for a stadium they bitterly oppose) trying to harness ‘unionism’ to their sport’s team.

    Poots wouldn’t know unionism if it bit him in the nads. Unionism isn’t just the OO or singing GSTQ at Windsor Park you know, it’s got to do with a Union between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. It’s got to do with the United Kingdom. Of course in Poots’ view the UUP’s unionism is suspect because it is trying to involve itself more fully in UK politics. I think you’ll find that he’s the clown.

  • The Raven

    Indeed, Chekov.

    I never quite understand the fuss over the so-called tenets of unionism that some try to purport that a mere song and flag are. It’s deeper than that.

    And if these and the Orange Order are all that some elements hold dear in terms of the union with the mainland, then they have even less of a leg to stand on than they thought originally.

    Bisto, are you the sort of chap that demonstrates at Council offices when the decision is taken not to fly the Union Flag 365 days-a-year? Just asking…just asking…

  • bisto

    Chekov

    Wriggle, wriggle! The truth of the matter is that this suggestion will go down like a lead balloon with the wider Unionist population.

    So what you are saying is that singing God Save The Queen should be dropped because it is offensive, in the name of inclusivity and all that?

    How exactly did you gauge what fans are saying? This isn’t only about football, its about other sports as well. However your attempt to spin it (and indulging in commentry about Edwin Poots physical appearance merely proves my point) demonstrates that Basil McCrea, who can’t walk past a microphone without giving a comment has dropped one enormous clanger!

    At least that’s what I thought until you came on here and proved it was actually how people inside the UUP think. Thanks for that.

    Have you got the face-paint to go with you shoes and nose?

  • bisto

    The Raven

    No actually I’m not. I’m a Unionist who actually believes in my community’s identity, culture and traditions and doesn’t sneer at them in a high-handed and condascending manner as some UUP posters on here clearly do.

  • bisto

    I would just like to quote this comment posted on Chekov’s website. Sums the situation up nicely I think:

    “You obviously weren’t at the NI match the last time this anthem nonsense was mooted.

    The ringing chorus of “you can stick your Danny boy up your ar*e warmed my heart”.

    Still, after you’ve pissed off all the Orangemen and people who like GSTQ from the UUP then you’ll be left with the purists like Basil and yourself…. and precious few others.”

    Hmmmm…gauged the fans? Have you got the multi-coloured wig ready?

  • bisto

    Maybe Chekov’s away gauging more opinions, ore perhaps making baloon animals at a childrens birthday party……

    before anyone cries about playing the man. It is good natured joshing, no malice intended!

  • The Raven

    “The Raven – No actually I’m not. I’m a Unionist who actually believes in my community’s identity, culture and traditions and doesn’t sneer at them in a high-handed and condascending manner as some UUP posters on here clearly do.”

    Naturally, you aren’t including me as a UUP poster there, are you? I think my previous posts elsewhere put that to bed some time ago.

    Regardless, I’ll put it to you again – what is this feckless grip of a flag, a song, a disbanded police force, a marching order got to do with “identity”? Is this the best the Protestants and Unionists have to offer? Is that the sum total of “culture and tradition”? And if not, why can’t politicos lead the way and start focusing on things OTHER than these, I’m sure, fine examples?

    And some of us aren’t sneering. We’re embarrassed.

  • observer

    And some of us aren’t sneering. We’re embarrassed.

    Posted by The Raven on Aug 22, 2008 @ 06:45 PM

    I know, some of us dont have fiddly dee music to hold on to or terrorists to eulogise.

    BIG SHAME

  • The Raven

    Yeah but next to those big macho terrorists, these OO types just seem so….so….*passé*…..

  • RepublicanStones

    ‘I know, some of us dont have fiddly dee music to hold on to or terrorists to eulogise’

    no you have marching bands and terrorists in uniform to eulogise.

  • observer

    seems the UUP dont want the national anthem as well as the OO about the place

  • Macho Man

    ‘green grassy slopes of the boyne’ or ‘croppies lie down’ as suitable ‘regional’ suppliments to gstq at windsor park? for inclusivity’s sake i would vote for ‘croppies lie down’ – with it’s ‘all-ireland’ dimension n’all

  • The Raven

    RS wrote: “no you have marching bands and terrorists in uniform to eulogise.”

    And back we come to where we all started…

  • Bisto,

    Er … no …. going to matches, talking to other people who go to them and keeping an eye on fansites. All those things that go along with being a passionate supporter of the team.

    Firstly – yes there are NI fans who very much want to keep the current anthem. The issue isn’t the anthem per se, it is Poots attempting to harness the ‘good unionist’ notion to wishing to keep the anthem. Even pro-anthem people don’t like that.

    Secondly – suggesting another anthem might be appropriate for a Northern Ireland (as opposed to a GB & NI or UK team) isn’t the same as finding the anthem offensive as you well know.