21st century colonisation?

The 2006 Irish census shows the largest nationality to settle in the Republic are the British, almost double the Polish population. Similar to the British emigration pattern in France it is to the countryside that they prefer to settle. The Central Statistics Office commented:

“The characteristics of UK nationals tend to be similar to those of the Irish population.”

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    looks as though we really are part of the british isles…
    Do you think the peace process will encourage more English, Scots and Welsh to move to NI as well?

  • RepublicanStones

    Great to see the majority of people in the Anglo-Celtic islands gettin on.

  • The Devil

    For christ sake that just shows how fucked this country is, I spend two years perfecting the pronounciations of Zachodniopomorskie, Warmińsko-Mazurskie, Kujawsko-Pomorskie and Gdansk only to find out I could have learned OOOH ARRRGH, TALLY HO and BURRMINGHYMN in two fucking minutes

  • Cardonagh is mentioend-a town I visit regularly.
    The “Britons” in Carndonagh tend to be people from the West of scotland with close relatives in the town.
    I’m not aware of any Home Counties arrivistes descending on Inishowen lol

    the Glaswegians therethat I know of tend to have names like Gallagher and consider themselves Irish

  • Dave

    It just goes to show that British people can live happily within an Irish nation state without requiring any changes to that status. 😉

  • Garibaldy

    UK nationals – does that include us northerners?

  • Shore Road Resident

    [edited by moderator – play the ball]

  • Mayoman

    Phil (ignoring the over-reaction to your light-hearted post), I was wondering about a similar thing myself. I wonder what proportion of the British influx are people like me, with strong family ties who see themselves as returning to the ‘homeland’ rather than immigrating. I know of so many of Irish descent who have returned to this part of the Isle, and they far outnumber those with english accents who have come for other reasons.

    Not sure if it matters though, just something of curioisty value. However, I do love seeing the evidence accrue that that the RoI is a truly tolerant place. Unlike…. 😉

  • Shore Road Resident tut tut.
    I expect better from you……

  • Mayoman.
    I relocated with my young family from Glasgow to Donegal in 1996.
    I have an Irish passpprt my wife has Uk passport.
    I wonder if the survey would consider both of us as “Britons” immigrating to ROI.
    My wife qualifies for an irish passport and was puissed when she found out that she didnt need to have a British one lol.
    he mother is from Kilrea and she is a cousin (2nd or 3rd) of Francis Hughes RIP.
    My Da was a Westport man.
    So if we’re two of the Britons in this inlfux then it aint tellin the whole story lol.
    However the Kinsale Home Counties thing I can personally testify to lots of English sailing folk moving over and fair play to them-now they really ARE british lol

  • Prob come over to help build the new Motorway’s and infra-structure’s expected in the BOOOMING!!! economy. Without being in the least bit prejudicial!!, Wonder if they’re sending a few Euro’s over the water to feed the family back home. Jus Sayin Like. 😉

  • Parnell they’re very welcome so they are;0)

  • Macca

    Our British residents are better than yours!

  • Ah Macca just when we were all starting to get along…..

    lol

  • joeCanuck

    “The characteristics of UK nationals tend to be similar to those of the Irish population.”

    Bet it’s the same for character.
    Like it our not, many of us are relatives and our histories are intertwined, not always for the worse.

  • Greenflag

    macca

    ‘Our British residents are better than yours!

    Question :

    How can you tell the difference between British residents in the Republic and British residents in Northern Ireland ?

    Answer :

    The former stop whining when they arrive here. The latter started whining when they got here and have never stopped since 🙂

    JC,

    ‘Bet it’s the same for character.’

    Indeed British and Irish thieves differ significantly from Polish, Lithuanian or Nigerian thieves 🙂

    ‘ Like it our not, many of us are relatives and our histories are intertwined, not always for the worse.’

    True. But also not always for the better as a quick perusal of the more contentious issues on slugger or any other blog would show 🙁

    Look on the bright side . It could be much worse 🙂

    .

  • Eireannach Saolta

    Fair Deal quit your trolling with a title like “21st century colonisation”… british people in the 21st moving to the republic can in no way be compared to colonisation. Theyre not marching through the country raping murdering opressing and intimidating the locals like in times past. Theyre also not driving the locals from their lands.
    Therefore they are welcome like any other EU citizens to move here freely

  • ulsterfan

    ES
    Are they entitled to vote in Dail elections without taking Irish citizenship?
    I think they are. Does anyone know for certain.

  • smcgiff

    ‘Are they entitled to vote in Dail elections without taking Irish citizenship?
    I think they are. Does anyone know for certain.’

    Yip – They can’t vote in Referenda though.

  • EWI

    21st century colonisation?

    See, I have to disagree with whoever titled this post. They don’t seem to know just what ‘colonisation’ is.

    Are there British troops in Mayo or wherever? Are the British government (once again!) claiming that any part of the twenrty-six counties is “theirs”?

    No? Then this post should surely be titled as “21st Century Migration“, right?

    The Central Statistics Office commented:
    “The characteristics of UK nationals tend to be similar to those of the Irish population.”

    You mean white and Christian?

  • Phil Mac Giolla Bhain, Give them, Limey foreigners an inch, sort of thing!!!. Hope them’uns don’t think they can take over Cork, Kerry nad Donegal the way they tried to in West-Belfast, South-Armagh an the Bogside!!!!. Maybe they can keep, Cavan, Iv’e been down there lately…Shockin. Wonder what Slugger’s Editor-In-Chief, (Mick Fealty) thinks about these new foreigners?.

  • Casual Observer

    I find it interesting to hear from the posters that have taken full advantage of, and benefited from, the privileges of British imperialism, moving from Ireland to, variously, England, Scotland, Wales, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

    Seeing as this amounts to tacit approval of a system that usurped native sovereignty, I just know that none of you are Irish nationalists.

  • Well said Mr.Parnell!
    England for the English (as we used to say in India in the officers mess!)
    LOL

  • Mr. Casual
    I have also effortlessly moved from Vienna to Zagreb does that also make me a Hapsburg imperialist your Hunness?

  • Paddy Matthews

    A lot of these UK citizens may well be the children of Irish families born in England who returned home in previous economic times in the mid 70s, or the partners of Irish citizens who emigrated to Britain during the 80s and returned during the economic boom of the last few years.

    Looking at the household details (page 3 of this part of the report), a clear majority of households (both couples without children and those with) are mixed UK/Irish rather than UK only couples, indicating that we’re not by and large dealing with the French/Italian pattern of UK migration.

    Couple: UK only 9,159, UK/Irish 14,252, UK/other 945
    Couple with children: UK only 10,965, UK/Irish 36,220, UK/other 1,068
    Lone parents with children: UK only 4,418, UK/Irish 7,842, UK/other 246.

    US citizens in Ireland had an even more skewed distribution of mixed vs. US-only couples; Germans and French slightly less skewed.

  • Greenflag

    “The characteristics of UK nationals tend to be similar to those of the Irish population.”

    ‘You mean white and Christian?’

    Not at all . They stay in bed on Sunday morning and wash the car or go to pub for jazz sessions .

    Three priests were ordained in Dubin this year one was a 37 year old the other in his 50’s and the other a Vietnamese immigrant .

    The Irish like the English prefer their religion on the lighter than light side . Northern Unionists and Northern nationalists are less advanced being more prone to believing in mumbo jumbo and creationism than in science or evolution for example .

    A recent survey showed that of 31 OECD countries the USA was just above Turkey in the percentage of people who believe that ‘evolution’ is a scientific fact i.e in 30th place . While the UK as a whole is at the top of the list I would guess that Northern Ireland could well be in 29th position right beside the USA . The Republic is along with the UK and Germany just behind the Scandinavians in their non belief in ‘creationism’.

  • Good man Paddy-i wouldnt have patience to wade through that.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “looks as though we really are part of the british isles…
    Do you think the peace process will encourage more English, Scots and Welsh to move to NI as well?”

    Yep, indeed. Woo hoo! Break open the champers too! But this is still Ireland, with one of the oldest languages of the ‘British Isles’ still in existance.
    BTW…..and where is the ‘moany hole’ Peace and Justice who thinks that us Irish are all Anglophobes? Huzzah for the English living in Ireland!

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “Three priests were ordained in Dubin this year one was a 37 year old the other in his 50’s and the other a Vietnamese immigrant .”

    And thanks be to jasus Greenflag, for the less of those cu*ts the better. Let’s keep the ROI, priest free and religion free, unlike the north of the island! Ah sure the poor sods!

  • Dave

    Greenflag, if a significant percentage of Americans don’t believe that the Theory of Evolution is a “scientific fact” then that is probably because they correctly understand the difference between a theory and a fact. Of the 777 individuals who have been awarded a Nobel Prize since its inception, our American friends account for 304 of them, so it is far from the scientifically backward nation that you seek to depict it as.

  • Dave

    Incidently, Ireland and the UK have one other thing in common: both countries are the top winners of Nobel Prizes on a per capita basis (with Ireland topping the league on a per capita basis – thanks to a few peace prizes thrown at self-important Northerners). 😉

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    Indeed Dave, very true! Bless the greatest Republic on planet earth!
    Jefferson, Franklin, etc….and bless the Freethinkers!

  • TAFKABO

    Indeed Dave, very true! Bless the greatest Republic on planet earth!

    Ahem…

    As a resident of the greatest republic on planet earth, I regret to inform you that here in France we like to keep church and State separate, so you can keep your blessings mo chara.

  • Casual Observer

    Mr. MacIlvain (is that a close English approximation?),

    I don’t know why that you assume that I am Hungarian.

    But a better analogy might be a Bosnian Serb complaining about Kosovo’s independance, because after all, Kosovo is and always will be part of Serbia.

  • Harry Flashman

    @Parnell

    “Prob come over to help build the new Motorway’s and infra-structure’s expected in the BOOOMING!!! economy.”

    Would that be the booming economy that is based on a monumentally unsustainable residential mortgage debt that accounts for 192% of the nation’s GNP? And which within the next few months will have gone so spectacularly tits up that it will make the collapse of the Spanish economy look like a stroll in the park?

  • George

    Harry,
    Would that be the booming economy that is based on a monumentally unsustainable residential mortgage debt that accounts for 192% of the nation’s GNP?

    Where do you get the 192% figure. The latest one I can find from the IMF has the figure at around 70%. While ridiculously large, that 75% is still a good bit smaller than a lot of countries such as the Netherlands, Denmark, UK and USA.

    http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2008/04/05/business/05charts.graphix.ready.html

  • BonarLaw

    Dave

    “with Ireland topping the league on a per capita basis – thanks to a few peace prizes thrown at self-important Northerners”

    er… the self important Northerners are in the UK column

  • POL

    The second plantation by stealth lol.

  • George

    er… the self important Northerners are in the UK column

    Better get on to the Nobel Foundation ASAP there Bonar, they’ve been putting the self important Northerners in the Ireland column…..

  • kensei

    George

    Your figures are for GDP. Harry referenced GNP, which is about 10-15% lower I think but still not enough for the difference.

    He might also be including foreign owned property to come up with that figure. In which case, it might be worth remembering that debts are only one half of the equation. The assets they are secured on have probably been though a big boom and even the current dive would have a way to go before they dip below the value of the debt. Assuming of course, they don’t want to hold on to them for the long term.

    Things are bad, but they are almost universally bad. And still not as bad as they could be or have been. Yet, anyway.

  • Mayoman

    What George??? Shock,horror!!! People being born in the Island of Ireland being branded as…….IRISH!!!! Where will it all end??? 🙂

  • manichaeism

    So was the millions of Irish people who went to live in Britain also a “plantation”?

  • Better get on to the Nobel Foundation ASAP there Bonar, they’ve been putting the self important Northerners in the Ireland column…..

    Took your advice there George; we’re such an example to world peace that we have our own classification, both Trimble and Hume are recorded as being from Northern Ireland:

    http://nobelpeaceprize.org/eng_lau_list.html#90

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    “So was the millions of Irish people who went to live in Britain also a “plantation”? ”

    Nope, coz we didn’t claim the Britain as a possession of our own and put it and it’s people under Irish governance!

    However, we’ll have an Irish arse on that UK thrown one day. It may possibly be even a papist arse too! All noble, clean and holy! And by then no one will give a flying fuck!

    🙂

  • Democratic

    “However, we’ll have an Irish arse on that UK thrown one day. It may possibly be even a papist arse too! All noble, clean and holy! And by then no one will give a flying fuck!

    Apart from you obviously……

  • Ah now Mr.Casual why would I be “approximating” my name in a foreign language?

    My name is my name and plenty of them in the home parish.

    BTW are you related to “Tiny” Wharton the famous bigotted Scottish soccer referee?
    He knew how to keep us Taigs in our place in tghe old days! lol
    Changes days I’m afraid for you Whartons ;0)

  • George

    O’Neill,
    oddly enough when I thought about Nobel Prizes, I didn’t think of Trimble and Hume.

    But you’re welcome to them, we’ll have Heaney.

    http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1995/

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    ….and perish the thought, says an apprehensive Democratic!

  • Steve

    As a citizen of the greatest democracy on the planet and having read the tables formortgage debt I can only say

    UP THE CANUCKS

    The 21st century will belong to Canada as we have all the resources. Woo hoo

    Table Isnt probably accurate anymore as the housing market is on fire as the economy in the west of Canada is absolutely booming.

    Unless you live in trawna, which I know from my travels that you all have a cousin there

  • Democratic

    Not really a case of perish the thought Greagoir –
    just can’t really see how it would happen exactly – unless some ambitious Irish suitors start plying their trade within the House of Windsor – how’s your patter these days?
    Considering the historic Irish attitude of “neither King nor Kaiser” I don’t know how well an Anglo-Irish royal would be received “back home” anyway…still if the thought excites you as a way of terrifying the oul orange bogeyman back here – feel free of course!

  • Greenflag

    dave ,

    ‘Greenflag, if a significant percentage of Americans don’t believe that the Theory of Evolution is a “scientific fact” then that is probably because they correctly understand the difference between a theory and a fact.’

    Not at all -it’s because ‘evolution’ is considered incredible as per their religious denomination . When Darwin published his theory in 1859 it was understandable given the times that most people would have initially regarded the theory as false and would have continued to believe that homo sapiens had been created ‘separately’ by God . The fact that a quarter of American college gradutes still adhere to the pre 1859 standard in 2008 is testimony to the both the power of fundamentalist ignorance in parts of the USA .

    ‘ Of the 777 individuals who have been awarded a Nobel Prize since its inception, our American friends account for 304 of them, so it is far from the scientifically backward nation that you seek to depict it as.’

    I did’nt say it was scientifically backward. I was referring specifically to a comparative study (New Scientist) between countries as to belief that evolution best described the wide variety of of life forms on the planet and the close DNA relationships between all of the primates etc etc .

    Of the 304 ‘Americans’ who won Nobel prizes how many were from an ashkenazi jewish /central european/german /hungarian etc background as compared with those from say Kentucky or Tennessee ? I think you’ll find a lot more from the former than the latter particularly in the science areas of physics, chemistry and biology.

  • Greenflag

    casual observer ,

    ‘But a better analogy might be a Bosnian Serb complaining about Kosovo’s independance, because after all, Kosovo is and always will be part of Serbia.’

    Actually that’s the worst possible analogy . Kosovo is 90% Albanian . If Northern Ireland were 90% Irish nationalist and 10% Unionist there would’nt be an NI state . Kosovo will eventually merge with Albania once the Serbs accept that it’s no longer the 14th century and there have been major demographic changes in that region since then !

  • [Back on topic, sorry]

    That article Fair Deal blogged was remarkable for its ignorance of the south. It read like a quickie that some journalist on holiday scribbled down, rather than any real attempt to look at the question.

    Anyone who knows the south (and I do) knows that there has been enormous return migration since the mid-1990s. There are British people with no strong Irish connects in the south, but the majority of the ‘British’ people are, in fact, the children and grandchildren of the Irish people who had to emigrate to Britain in the 1950s. These children and grandchildren have always kept a sense of Irishness (just look at the World Irish Dancing Championships!), and quite a few of them have always wanted to ‘come home’.

    Yes, they may have British passports, but they are not ‘ethnically’ British (as the article strangely puts it). They are often of 100% Irish descent, and are coming back, courtesy of the economic boom, to live close to where their families are from.

    The silly notion that these are ‘Brits’ coming to colonise is ignorant pot-stirring.

  • manichaeism

    “The 21st century will belong to Canada as we have all the resources. Woo hoo”

    Eh maybe! Wouldn’t put it past the Americans to go in there to take your “weapons of mass destruction” from you though!!

  • Ah Greenflag-you should left his analogy alone:0(
    He was delighted with himself……..

  • George

    Horseman,
    the article is not only slightly ignorant of the situation, it also didn’t bother researching the facts.

    It states that there are 112,000 British living in Ireland now. What it doesn’t state is that there are 220,000 who were born in Great Britain but are now living in Ireland. They just don’t consider themselves British.

    So around half of those British “colonisers” in Ireland are already more Irish than the Irish themselves, as the saying goes.

  • Steve

    Manichaeism

    of course there is little we could do to stop them. for them to invade and take over would be easy, but its like grabbing a cactus the easy part is picking it up the hard bit is holding on to it.

    Plus of course we are one of the few countries that is alost invasion proof as every one loves us and has a cousin here

  • manichaeism

    Steve,

    You’re probably right about the invasion. They will just take everything by stealth instead!

  • POL

    #

    So was the millions of Irish people who went to live in Britain also a “plantation”?
    Posted by manichaeism on Jul 07, 2008 @ 11:51 AM

    No that was revenge lol.

  • manichaeism

    LOL!

    And so is Irish businessmen buying up half of London!

  • Spot on George!

    I’m delighted,as an Irish passport holder, to be back in my father’s country doing a bit of colonising lol

    Like Ballymena (Baile meanach) I’m as British as Finchley……..

  • Casual Observer

    Phil, I meant no offense. I was more asking for pronounciation confirmation, hoping that I’d found an equivalent. Is “Phil” a Gaelic name?

    Maybe you could help translate the following Middle Irish for me: Caer ar geimiun.

    And, yes Greenflag, I will agree that if the whole island had had only 10% Unionists scattered more or less equally around, Irish independance possibly would have had a different history.

  • CO
    Neither my Junior cert son in a Gaeilscoil nor my gaeilgoir self can help you with looks like Welsh:0)
    Ta bron orm faoi sin

    “phil” (also my father’s name) isnt irish-I was named after himand he was named after a cousin/uncle a Mosignor no less
    ach mar a deitear sin e sceal eile………….

  • Peat Blog

    I know many in central and southern Europe who wish the British AND Irish colonization of their property markets would end. And of course we don’t even bother to go and live there.

  • Greenflag

    manichean ,

    ‘And so is Irish businessmen buying up half of London!’

    Not forgetting a little ‘bit’ of the Athens of the North 🙂

    from the irish times last week.

    THE O’FLYNN Construction Group is planning a €250 million redevelopment of a key area in Edinburgh, Scotland.The Cork company recently saw off local competition in a tendering process run by the local authority to take possession of a four-acre site in Morrison Street, Haymarket, close to the Scottish capital’s financial district on its west side.

    O’Flynn plans to transform the site, which has lain derelict for the last 40 years, into a mixed development that will include a five-star and three-star hotel and office space.

    Edinburgh’s city council has given the Irish company’s plans the green light and the issue will go the Scottish parliament for final approval. The parliament’s approval is needed because the council has a financial interest in the scheme. An environmental impact assessment is also required.

    It is understood the company is optimistic that the Scottish parliament will give it the go-ahead. The project involves an overall investment of £200 million (€252 million).

    The plans feature a 192-bedroom five-star InterContinental hotel, a neighbouring 245-bedroom Travelodge and 31,122 sq m of office space.

    O’Flynn also intends including a new pedestrian boulevard through the site linking Haymarket and the Exchange financial district.

    The Irish group has drafted in award-winning local architects Richard Murphy CDA and Sutherland Hussey to design the development.

    The project will create in the region of 400 jobs during construction and another 1,600 when it is completed. The group estimates it will bring an extra £8.75 million of visitor spending into Edinburgh’s economy.

    It intends beginning work on the site later this year and expects it to be complete in 2012.

  • Good post Greenflag.
    Ihope those paddies do not change the culture of the folk of Auld Reekie.
    I dont think I could handle it to see them smile ;0)

    Its a Glasgow Edinburgh thing lads-stay out of it lol

  • Casual Observer

    Mr. Mac Giolla Bhain,

    Is your patronymic name pronounced in English like “mack-ill-vane”? Meaning “Son of the Retainer/Follower/Worshipper of Bann”?

    As to the Middle Irish “Caer ar geimiun”, it was left out of a translation by the learned John O’Donovan in the early 1800s. He added, “It has been thought better to leave this phrase untranslated.”

    I don’t know if I’d recognise Middle English. But it is definitely not Cymraeg. Thanks anyway.

  • Greagoir O Frainclin

    And sure ain’t it an Irish consortium of developers and business folk (Harcourt Properties) that are rejuvenating Belfast, the Titanic Quarter etc….

    Check it out! The former (RTE) Irish TV presenter and celeb Mike Murphy is on the board.

    http://www.harcourtdevelopments.com/

  • CO In Connaght (the da’s home place)
    it is “Ma gilla vaughn” (sorry I dont do the IPA)

    In Donegal the bh “V” becomes a “W”-it drives me nuts!

    Both my lad and I had a go at that phrase-we were both stumped and him the gaeiscoil scholar
    ta bron orm aris

  • CO

    PMacGB,

    Thanks!