“These are exceptional times”

On 10 May éirígí held its second Ard Fheis. In a mere two years it has grown greatly beyond the original six members based in Dublin.

For those interested in following developments, you can read and view the new rúnaí ginearálta Rab Jackson’s address to the Ard Fheis here.

Tommy McKearney’s and Brian Lesson’s orations at the Connolly commemoration are also available.

Photos

  • harry

    ah, the alternative to the partitionist and right of centre politics of Provisional Sinn Fein.

    Good!!

  • And not an Armani suit in sight.

    Long may it be so.

  • BfB

    As long as socialism remains an integral part of any Republican agenda the results will remain the same. Marginal. In order to get a majority of the modern working class behind the cause, socialism must be rejected. Imho.

  • PeaceandJustice

    To Mark McGregor – perhaps you and your friends would like to make a proper comment regarding this act of violence.

  • Briso

    “So I’ll finish with the words of James Connolly who said: “We believe in constitutional action in normal times; we believe in revolutionary action in exceptional times. These are exceptional times.”

    So you’re preaching revolutionary not constitutional action? Is that armed revolution?

  • The Fermanagh Beagle Fanciers Club held it’s AGM in Pettigo last night.

  • Greenflag

    If at first you you don’t succeed by all means try again but don’t become bloody stupid about it . The world moves on and the ‘objective’ of an Irish Socialist Republic while of interest to the small numbers of those in ‘Eirigi’ is of little or no interest to the 99% plus of the people actually living in Ireland in the here and now .

    Time for Eirigi to ‘Imigi led do thoil’ by the left quick march down the path towards the political and economic grave that history has dug for them.

    That said there is political room in Ireland for a radical left but not a whole lot .There is no political room for a new generation of ‘bombers’. Connolly was a brave man but also a man of his time and even though some his words resonate across the decades the fact is that most Irish people distinguish between past justifiable struggle and present economic and political realities .

    Revolutions are not made by fat people who drink lots of beer in pubs and spend their time lying on a sofa with a remote control while pondering Dustin the Turkey’s chances in eurovision !

  • dublinsinnfeinsupporter

    This group will have no impact.

  • Bole

    This group has about as much relevance to modern Ireland as those who believe the Giant’s Causeway was formed c.4000 years ago. Both groups deserve to be put out of their misery.

  • Mark McGregor

    dublinsfsupporter,

    I refer you to Cathy Jackson’s reply to Liam Duggan in the Irish News on this topic.

    There is now new hope for republican idealists

    Liam Duggan (April 25) used the famous James Connolly quotation, “We believe in constitutional action in normal times; we believe in revolutionary action in exceptional times”, to bolster his own analysis of the contemporary political landscape.

    His usage goes to the heart of the challenge facing republicanism in Ireland today. For those who believe we live in ‘normal’ times the only avenue open to them is that of ‘constitutional’ action – or perhaps, more accurately, ‘institutional’ action (or inaction) – within Stormont. For those of use who believe there is nothing normal about partition; nothing normal about a ‘permanent’ garrison of 5,000 British soldiers; nothing normal about a heavily armed colonial police force; nothing normal about MI5 spy rings and nothing normal about discrimination, exploitation and poverty the only action open to us is revolutionary action.

    Republicanism is now in a state of flux as republicans all across Ireland come to terms with the new political landscape. For many there has been bitter disappointment with how little has been achieved over the last 40 years.

    For some that disappointment has turned to disillusionment with the entire concept of organised political struggle. For others, however, that disappointment has been replaced by hope and by a renewed commitment to the long-fought-for objectives of Irish republicanism.

    For myself, and others in south Derry, Dublin, Belfast, Armagh and elsewhere, éirígí now represents the best vehicle for the achievement of an Irish Socialist Republic.

    Is éirígí the ‘credible alternative’ that Liam refers to in his letter? Perhaps not yet, but to quote another father of Irish Republicanism, Fintan Lalor, “Somewhere and somehow, and by somebody, a beginning must be made.”

    In my opinion that beginning was made two years ago when a group of republican activists in Dublin launched éirígí as an alternative not only to Sinn Féin but also to Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, the SDLP and all the other establishment political parties on this island.

    CATHY JACKSON
    Leas Chathaoirleach
    Éirígí, Doire Theas

  • Greenflag

    mark mcgregor ,

    ‘Republicanism is now in a state of flux as republicans all across Ireland come to terms with the new political landscape. ‘

    Not entirely true. Some few Republicans have yet to come to terms with the new political landscape but the vast majority have already done so.

    ‘For many there has been bitter disappointment with how little has been achieved over the last 40 years.’

    Do you mean as a reward for the 4,000 dead and the billions of pounds worth of property damage or just in general terms re the NI economy -it’s political party make up or the continuing sectarian nature of this ‘artificial ‘ State? or the fact that there is no UI or prospect of one on the horizon?

    To quote an earlier thread

    ‘There are no clean wars nor intelligent deaths’

    Update

    ‘There are no guarantees in politics’ People are and can be fickle and never forget the great power of inertia nor that every ‘revolution’ is soon enough followed by the scum of a new bureaucracy .

    Put it down to human nature .

  • Wilde Rover

    Rab Jackson,

    “I believe we have the ability to win and if we apply our minds and our energies we can reduce the time it will take to drive the Brits from Ireland.”

    This statement in itself reflects the lack of thought and the tragic lack of vision for any form of republic that could hope to survive without the Brits who post here.

    Boredom is the worst death of all.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Mark McGregor [ref Cathy Jackson’s reply to Liam Duggan in the Irish News]

    “Liam Duggan (April 25) used the famous James Connolly quotation, ‘We believe in constitutional action in normal times; we believe in revolutionary action in exceptional times’, to bolster his own analysis of the contemporary political landscape.

    For those of use who believe there is nothing normal about partition … the only action open to us is revolutionary action.”

    Instead of hiding behind the words of someone else, do you or do you not support the use of violence? Your post above implies that you do.

    Any comments for the policeman seriously injured in Spamount village?

  • GavBelfast

    It would be interesting to know if, going beyond the rhetoric and flimsy posters and flags in places like the Toome rounabouts, Mark and Co are ready and willing to kill or be killed for “the Republic”?

  • Rory

    And what programme does this self-defined socialist, revolutionary group offer to the masses aside from self serving and hollow rhetoric? None that I can discern.

    Merely saying that James Connolly was. like, really cool and that socialism is, like, dead cool as well so let’s go and annoy the Queen at Armagh Cathedral and get up the begrudgers’ noses by flying flags and pissing people off seems to me hardly to equate with serious mindedness. I envision that the best of those attracted to it will soon realise its futility and drift away and the more weak minded will gravitate towards whatever remains of the Truly, Madly, Deeply Republican nasty little bombers.

  • truth

    It seems to me that eirigi are putting an alternative to Republicans across ireland who do not agree with the direction of Sinn Fein, i support this and think alot of the posts left are a bit pathetic, seems like the same few people complaining about everything that happens in politics these days, dont dare disrupt the political farce at stormont.
    Sounds like most of the posts are saying know one has the right to disagree or put forward an alternative? thats Fascism.

  • earnan

    What a waste of time and effort. Revolution’t NEVER happen when people are fat and happy.

  • cut the bull

    Is Éirígí going to contest elections and will it be operating advice centres where it can engage the public?

  • wild turkey

    ‘What a waste of time and effort. Revolution NEVER happen when people are fat and happy. ‘

    In the 20th century the major revolutions ONLY appeared to happen as a deliberate manufactured programme of ensuring the starvation and misery of the people.

    Do words like peasants, centralisation, Mao and Stalin ring a bell?

    So I take it you advocate revolution (for whatever noble ends) by means of inflicting a noble and necessary misery ?

    It has already been tried and tested.

    Here.

  • If this new republican group is such a waste of time why do so many sluggerites who come from the unionist tradition bother to comment,

    Rory

    Instead of posting ill informed comment, why not live up to the reputation you have built at slugger, as a well informed commentator and check out éirígí web site. You may not end up agreeing with éirígí, but I think you will find them a serious organization.

    comradely regards.

  • PeaceandJustice

    Mick Hall – “I think you will find them a serious organization”

    The implication from Mark McGregor’s earlier post is that the organisation supports violence. Like Mark McGregor you don’t seem to have anything to say about the policeman seriously injured in Spamount village.

  • DK

    Eirigi – even their name is designed to alienate the prods – never mind the flag flying and parades (when the orange order does that it’s called – rightly – intimidation).

    This is not a socialist group, it is a lurch to the right and into xenophobia. Saying “Brits out” when some 5% of the population is English is akin to Londoners putting up signs saying “No irish” and then claiming they were only referring to the criminal element. Bunch of racists. Connolly would be embarrssed.

  • Mark McGregor

    In conclusion we say to our fellow delegates with all solemnity that we believe that there are no real Nationalists in Ireland outside of the Irish Labour movement. All others merely reject one part or another of the British Conquest, the Labour movement alone rejects it in its entirety, and sets itself the Re-conquest of Ireland as its aim. – James Connolly

  • Rory

    Yes, thank you, Mark for reporting the platform’s quotation of Connolly by which use they would attempt to infer that there are no true nationalists save those in éirígí, no true socialists save those in éirígí,, no true republicans save those in éirígí. And indeed it must be true for éirígí has assured us that indeed it is so and called James Connolly himself from beyond the grave to confirm it.

    Unfortunately their juvenile, divisive actions give the lie to their rhetoric and I am not alone in being unconvinced. Rather we can view it as merely another exercise in left wing infantalism and we all know to where such movements are inexorably driven – into the arms of the ultra-right.

  • Garibaldy

    Ture republicans are internationlists anyway 🙂

  • Mark McGregor

    Rory,

    I don’t see that elitism anywhere, or that division, in fact I saw the opposite in Rab Jackson’s comment that seems the opposite of everything you have contributed:

    And, regardless of the assaults, the abuse or the slander we must challenge the problem at its source. We must not, and this is really important, we must not be distracted into battles with other republicans. We know well who the enemy of the Irish nation is and we must focus all our energies there.

    But sure if you want to show an actual example of right wing activity or division over claiming it when you disagree feel free. Until then it is just you applying extreme labels with no substantiation to people you disagree with. The abuse and slander he dismisses.

  • Mark McGregor

    Gari,

    You haven’t given up on anti-imperialism now? Would have thunk it ;0)

    Here’s me thinking socialism and true republicanism were the same thing.

  • Mark McGregor

    Gari,

    You haven’t given up on anti-imperialism now? Who’d have thunk it ;0)

    Here’s me thinking socialism and true republicanism were the same thing.

  • Dave

    “Here’s me thinking socialism and true republicanism were the same thing.”

    The confusion probably arises because both corpses share the same grave.

    If you ever watch programs on UK TV such as Property Ladder, you’ll have noticed that they usually advise the aspiring developer to (a) avoid personalising the property so that you don’t limit its appeal to buyers who share your taste, and (b) identify the market for your property and target your development to that market. It’s basic common sense, of course, but many amateur developers fall foul of those simple rules. And so it is with Éirígí: they have a fantastic property that should appeal to all buyers, but they have blown its mass market appeal by personalising its decor with chic 1960s decor. No one buys the socialist guff these days, so your market for unity is now confined to those who lacked the ability to prosper from a record period of economic prosperity.

  • Garibaldy

    Certainly not Mark. True anti-imperialism is also internationalist!

  • Mark McGregor

    Dave,

    “If you ever watch programs on UK TV such as Property Ladder”

    You lost me at this point. I’m sure it was a good point and fully understood by any landlords reading but I can’t see any of the éirígí supporters or other socialists you seem to be advising getting, trying to get or caring about how exploitation of property relates to their socialist project. (especially now this has been shown to be a false feast)

  • John

    Go to sleep please. You are keeping my children awake. I am a socialist but we lost not only the battle but the war some time ago. If you want to form some new movement that will interest people then you need to be a bit more inventive. The 32 county republic will come but not on our terms. Globalisation will see to that.

  • Dave

    Well, Mark, I’m an architect, so programs about property are usually interesting to me. Property Ladder, presented by the perennially pregnant Sarah Beeny, focuses more on the human interest angle of the amateur first-time developer as he or she tries to get on the first rung of the property ladder by adding value to a mortgaged property and then selling it to release the added equity with the purpose of reinvesting it in the next step up the ladder, and so on. It’s actually a program that socialists should be interested in because it shows how you can make a lot of money with a small amount of capital, providing you are prepared to work hard. I can, however, excuse socialists from watching Grand Designs because that program is about innovative design that is quite expensive to build, and intended for use as a luxury residence.

    Anyway, my point was that adding a socialist agenda on equal terms with a united Ireland agenda will limit the appeal of éirígí to those who are both socialist and republican. Yes, there is a “Duh!” moment in that as you point out that is the specific purpose of éirígí, but the reality is that éirígí would make greater progress if it separated the two. There is a market in the Republic for a party that isn’t afraid to promote its nationalism, but that market is predominantly and progressively right of centre and most definitely not in awe of James Connolly. In Northern Ireland, éirígí also has the downside that its Irish nationalism will limit its appeal to (oddly enough) Irish nationalists, excluding those who are socialists and British nationalists. So, it’s a losing formula.

  • So let me get this right, Irish republicans, if that is there wish, should not set up a party with an Irish name, say éirígí, as it may offend northern Protestants, but it is OK for the same unionist protestants to have the word UNIONIST in all of their party names.

    Let me understand this correctly, republicans at all costs must hide their politics under a blanket, but Unionists have a god given right to flaunt their political belifes.

    What is next, a new law to ban the flying of the Irish flag, and you say you want a liberal democracy?

    John,

    Myself I have little confidence that globalization will last, once China and India move beyond being the West’s sweat shops, do you feel the dying empire that is the USA will not attempt to introduce sanctions or possibly worse, better go back and take a look at the origins of WW1.

  • Comrade Stalin

    but it is OK for the same unionist protestants to have the word UNIONIST in all of their party names.

    Mick,

    Can I get this straight. You’re using the unionists as a reference point ?

  • “You don’t seem to have anything to say about the policeman seriously injured in Spamount village”.

    Posted by PeaceandJustice

    peace and justice

    The reason I have not mentioned violence in regarding to éirígí is because that organization has made its position on this subject clear. [see there web site]

    As to the police officer who you write was seriously injured in some village, I know nothing about it as I have been in the eastern Mediterranean for the last three weeks and I find it is best to stick to that which you understand when posting.

    best regards

    Comrade stalin

    Sorry but you have lost me with your last comment.

    Greenflag

    Whilst not a supporter of Mao or Stalin, poverty and starvation was knocking at China’s door well before Mao came along, of course a revolution is the least best option; and all leftists should keep that in mind, sadly far to many lack the imagination to understand what an actual revolution entails. However there are times when sadly due to differing reasons revolution is the only option if people wish to get out from under the yoke of oppression. France in the 19th century, Russia in Feb 1917, October is more questionable, Cuba 1950s, Iran in 1979.

    Of course revolutions are tricky things to control, hence my reluctance to rush down that road if a viable alternative is available.

    best

  • sorry, I missed out the English revolution which Cromwell led on my list of essential revolutions.

  • Rory

    Two recent examples of crude divisive actions by éirígí in the recent past:

    1. The protests on the occasion of the visit to the Church of Ireland cathedral in Armagh by the head of that church to perform a traditional Anglican ceremony recalling the example of Christ’s charity.

    What section of the community was that intended to impress?

    2. The provocovative and unwarranted flying of flags in Magherafelt which demonstrated only that there were yet some who called themselves republican who could be just as pig-headedly coat trailing as any Orange yahoo.

    Stupid. Self indulgent. Offensive. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

  • BH

    I have only briefly looked at this thread as I really do have more important things to do with my life. Really. And no, that is not intended as an insult to those who do post here on a regular.

    What is interesting however is the fact that an organisation, recently established, that has been very careful not to be offensive towards others, finds itself accused here of being offensive and provocative.

    If asserting that the solution to the problems of Ireland, and indeed the world, are to be found through resisting capitalism, imperialism and the new GFA order, are seen as provocative then so be it. In that case I’m all for provocation. Anyone ever heard of conflict theory??

    As to the flying of flags and whether or not this is provocative – I don’t think any Irish Republican needs to apologise to anyone for erecting the national flag, and yes, the éírígí flag, to commemorate the dead of 1916. To dismiss this as mere self-promotion is peurile. To equate it with the flying of ‘orange’ flags is even worse, and an indication of how some (yes, a majority in fact) believe that to resist occupation and promote justice is the very same as its exact opposite. How intellectually confused is that? That, my friend(s), is your problem, unfortunately for you.

    If it is the case that some people genuinely believe that what éírígí is about is futile (in that the conditions don’t exist for builiding a revolutionary socialist republican movement), they are entitled to that belief. éirígí is entitled to believe otherwise.

    I think the real problem here is that there are those who fear an alternative to the status quo. There are those who believe we have reached the ‘end of history’ in Ireland and beyond. I personally concur with Mick Hall’s view as to the future demise of the neo-liberal order.

    I suppose time will tell who is correct.

  • BfB

    MH

    Cuba out from under the yoke of oppression? Take your designer (murdering, socialist bastard) che t-shirt off, and stop looking for US black helicopters. History has shown that by the misery it causes, socialism is a rabid dog, killing those who associate with it. Grow up and realize that Ireland will be united, but you socialist will be fighting the gypsies for camp sites.

  • Greenflag

    Mick,

    ‘poverty and starvation was knocking at China’s door well before Mao came along,’

    Of course but it took Mao’s regime to ‘supervise’ the mother of all Chinese famines in the late 1960’s in which 30 million were ‘allowed’ to die . The ‘party of international socialism’ decided that the offer of American food aid would be too ‘injurious’ to Chinese Communist Party’s pride . Shades of Myanmar in 2008 . Oddly enough it was ‘global capitalism’ via agricultural research scientists (German ) who developed new strains of ‘rice’ in the ‘green revolution’ which subsequently allowed China to break free from the Malthusian population constraint which it had reached in 1969.

    ‘However there are times when sadly due to differing reasons –France in the 19th century, Russia in Feb 1917, October is more questionable, Cuba 1950s, Iran in 1979.’

    Due to ‘differing reasons’ ? Now that covers a multitude . In essence those ‘differing reasons’ can be summarised generally as the ‘haves’ being afraid of the ‘have nots’ . Whether the commodity under dispute between the various factions within any society is political power , economic status , individual freedom , property rights , or freedom to practice one’s religion, it almost does’nt matter . A new order beckons and the ‘conservatives’ try to hold on to the past while the ‘revolutionaries’ reach for a more hopeful though unknown future . How any revolution actually works out in practice for the whole of any society (apart of course from those at the top of any new order) is dependent on how realistic and practicable any new order is in addressing the fundamental issues within any society at that particular time in history.
    This is the basic ‘problem’ which eirigi and others like them have to face . Their ‘remedy’ is not seen as ‘believable ‘ not by a large majority anyway.

    The ‘oppression’ which you refer to has to reach a point whereby a majority begin to believe that the present order not only cannot deliver a stable economic /political future but shows no sign of being able to adapt to do what is necessary. The situation in Northern Ireland today is that the vast majority while perhaps not overjoyed by the political settlement that has been arrived at -nevertheless believe that it is the only practicable option at this stage for some kind of normal future .

    England /Britain in the early decades of the 19th century came very close to ‘revolution’. The growing industrial proletariat had been ‘ignored’ as Britain charged forward towards world empire (globalisation Mark 2) (the Romans being the Mark 1 version). Who now recalls the Chartrists and the various social reformers who emerged out of industrial revolution England ?

    Britain unlike France or Russia avoided bloody revolution through political ‘reform ‘ . Also the new ‘ruling ‘ elite in Britain had seen what happened in France when the peasants (or more correctly) the emerging non aristocratic nouveau bourgeoisie had finally had enough of degenerate aristocratic rule .

    France of course had another ‘revolution’ of sorts in 1968 . A bloodless one but yet one in retrospect which probably saved France from a civil war based on class and a possible French Communist Party take over?

    BH,

    ‘I personally concur with Mick Hall’s view as to the future demise of the neo-liberal order.

    The neo liberal order has not run out of flexibility . It can still adapt to a fast changing world economy and the emerging changes in the world power pecking order . Assuming of course that the USA and other western powers can get past the present property bust /credit crunch fiasco and the current energy price hike . It appears to me that the USA is moving to what has been called a new ‘paradigm’. An Obama/Clinton or Clinton /Obama administration will have to address many of the social and economic issues now being faced by those Americans who have been left high and dry by both the excesses of the neo liberals and ‘globalisation’.

    ‘I think the real problem here is that there are those who fear an alternative to the status quo.’

    That’s just human nature . Unionists feared the ‘alternative’ to the status quo in 1918. The upcoming Lisbon treaty referendum will show that the Irish people are IMO also going to ‘vote’ for the ‘status quo’ even though many will not fully ‘understand’ the detail.

    Change for the sake of change sounds like a good option for people contemplating a summer holiday or redecorating a house . For people contemplating a whole restructuring of the social/economic/political order there had better be something tangible and credible to offer the voter . Voters today unlike those in 1918 or in 1969 are better educated and a majority are unlikely to be persuaded by those waving flags or offering political programs based on a world order which ‘died’ almost 100 years ago.

  • do the right thing

    so all the whingers on this site see no fault whatsoever with the status quo in ireland? – no need for change, no need for new ideas, even the republicans in your midst?

    Unionists in power have, no doubt, a lot to lose by the establishment of a socialist republic or even for that matter a general shift in a leftward direction, yet i dont and never will understand why working class protestants cling to a monarchical, and exploitative system as though it were the holy grail of their being – unless they benefit directly from it.

    Granted, a settler colonial mentality persists, Granted, i wouldnt want to be part of a right wing, brown envelope brigade free state – but thats not what republicanism proposes.

    There have been several aborted attempts at republican revolution in Ireland in two centuries and all have ultimately failed, but what persists and echoes through the ages is the idea of a free and democratic country controlled by its citizens. That idea has been extremely strong (1918 elections for example) and extremely weak (1930s, 1950,s 1960’s? today?) but the idea has remained and is alive today. Éirígí are closer to that idea than any other group i know of. they are new, they are fresh and they are picking the rights campaigns and the right tactics.

    fair play to yous. keep it up. there are plenty watching and learning

  • Voters today unlike those in 1918 or in 1969 are better educated and a majority are unlikely to be persuaded by those waving flags or offering political programs based on a world order which ‘died’ almost 100 years ago.

    Posted by Greenflag

    Anyone who had experience of the UK during the Falklands war or the US when GW Bush invaded Iraq will know just how attractive flag waving appears to be for many people. I do not believe education has much to do with how people decide to vote. Indeed the recent history of the world is basically that of well educated people shitting on those who have been less well educated. Only occasionally do the less well educated behave in such a barbaric manner.

    Bush and Blair took their countries to war on a lie that come the elections, the populations of both countries were conscious of, yet a majority reelected them to office. Mainly due to flag waving and saber rattling I might add.

    I agree that it is extremely unlikely that a revolution will break out in western Europe in the foreseeable future, but times change and when they do they change extremely quickly.

    You mentioned the reforms that averted revolution in the 19th and 20th century, what I find interesting is the rush by sections of Capital to row back these reforms, if I was a revolutionary I would step back and say be my guest, for without reasonable reforms, the masses have only revolution to attempt to attain a decent life.

    I believe the neo cons are about the most short sighted people since the Russian and French aristocracy walked the earth, it is this above all else that makes them very dangerous to the future of human kind. They believe wealth and might is always right and such a theory has been historically littered with disasters. For these fools act as if the nightmare 20th century did not exist and the post WW2 reforms never occurred. Even Bismarck understood the necessity of reform if you wish to avoid revolution and chaos.

    BfB,

    When you are in long trousers and have learnt some manners, get back to me and we might have an interesting debate.

  • Garibaldy

    Greenflag,

    You do realise that around 90% of voters in the north consistently vote for people who wave flags for an order that died out nearly 3 centuries ago?

    And workers continue to be exploited by their employers. That is the base of the capitalist system of production. So whatever changes have happened in the economy at a structual level, there are still conflicting class interests within societies. We are indeed currently in a reactionary age. But we cannot say that it will always be so.

  • kensei

    so all the whingers on this site see no fault whatsoever with the status quo in ireland? – no need for change, no need for new ideas, even the republicans in your midst?

    Hello. I am wondering if you could point me to the new ideas, because fuck me if all I see isn’t the same stuff trotted out faithfully for the past 100 years.

  • snkaebrain

    I noticed eirigi flags have replaced the tricolors flying in Fisherwick in Ballymena while driving past today.

    Amusingly enough, somebody in the pub explained them to me as “some Polish thing”, though there seems to be a growing affiliation between Poles and Republicans in some parts of the town which may explain the confusion.

    The Dunclug estate has C.I.R.A. graffiti flanked by “Welcome to Dunclug”, “Failte..” and “Witamy na Dunclug” which I found quite interesting. Obviously there’s a Catholic link, but I was surprised any outsider would choose to get involved in the dog-end of our little dispute.

  • Wilde Rover

    Mick Hall,

    “If this new republican group is such a waste of time why do so many sluggerites who come from the unionist tradition bother to comment,”

    There hasn’t been a really good row for a while and everyone is jonzing for something to kick off, preferably with juice?

    Even worse for the sluggerettes to explain to their worse halves.

  • Wilde Rover

    do the right thing,

    So what you are saying is Step One Collect Underpants Step Three Profit?

    Your ideas are intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

    I propose Dustin the Turkey as Supreme Overlord of the Jumbo Roll Island and Van Morrison as Minister for Keeping it Real.

    And why not? It’s as plausible as your conclusion.

  • Rory

    “What is interesting however is the fact that an organisation, recently established, that has been very careful not to be offensive towards others, finds itself accused here of being offensive and provocative.

    As I pointed out in my post which immediately preceded yours, BH, it is not a matter of éirígí being accused of being offensive it is a matter of them being observed to be blatantly offensive and then, by using the words of long dead iconological figures, to attempt to justify such offence as “true republican socialism”.

    “We are inspired by Connolly” they would argue much as other self-deluded nuisances claim they are inspired by God or Allah or Christ or (risking Godwin), Hitler.

    Whomsoever they may claim to be inspired by they most certainly do not inspire me – other than to utter the ejaculation “Jesus wept!” as, shaking my old grey head, I pour myself a large one.

  • picador

    The Fermanagh Beagle Fanciers Club held it’s AGM in Pettigo last night.

    They are legitimate targets to the last man.

  • BfB

    MH
    Toughen up, Nancy boy…you may get hurt when you fall from your high horse.

    GW Bush invaded Iraq…

    Ahhh….LIBERATED is more accurate. Not that truth and accuracy is high up on your anti-American list there Mick.

  • Greenflag

    Mick Hall,

    ‘Anyone who had experience of the UK during the Falklands war or the US when GW Bush invaded Iraq will know just how attractive flag waving appears to be for many people.’

    Not forgetting our tricolour and union jack waving neighbours n NI 🙁

    ‘I do not believe education has much to do with how people decide to vote.’

    You might think that but post election surveys across many western democracies seem to indicate that the least educated tend to vote the least – with the less well educated and the economic elite tending to vote ‘conservative’. The ‘intellectuals’ tend to vote left of centre . There are variances between countries of course but in general Conservative governments have tended to benefit from lower turnout of voters with the aged and the middle aged taking their ‘democracy’ a lot more seriously than the younger population and ethnic minorities (USA ). .

    ‘I believe the neo cons are about the most short sighted people since the Russian and French aristocracy walked the earth, it is this above all else that makes them very dangerous to the future of human kind.’

    I tend to agree particularly as regards the American branch of the species . Nevertheless they appear to be on their way out. The American Republicans have over the past 7 years destroyed the conservative ‘message’ if it ever had one . They have proven themselves to be quite pssibly the worst administration in modern American history .

    ‘I agree that it is extremely unlikely that a revolution will break out in western Europe in the foreseeable future, but times change and when they do they change extremely quickly.’

    Well yes however the difference between today and say 1918 or 1840 or 1917 (Russia) is that the majority of people are far better off than they were back in those times . The ‘masses’ today are fat even overweight , well off , and not oppressed enough- well not yet anyway . The bottom 10 to 20% of the population who have not benefited from ‘globalisation’ are of course a ‘problem’ in all countries . The rising tide has lifted all boats but the largest boats have benefitted the most in many countries even in those with left of centre governments . Interestingly reports from the USA indicate that the middling size boats have now taken an aversion to the widening ‘gap’ which has been opening up between them and the largest boats and the ever narrowing of the gap between them and the smaller boats.

    ‘what I find interesting is the rush by sections of Capital to row back these reforms,’

    Never underestimate the capacity of some of the wealthy /powerful/arrogant to consume all and everything around them in the grasp for more be it political power , immense wealth, or fame . It’s the human condition . Which is why democracies tend to have constitutional safeguards and protections built in to help reduce the possibility of abuse of power.

    The ‘market economy’ works but it’s by no means perfect. Despite thousands of economists and governments staffed by well educated ‘mandarins’ the present economic downturn / property burst apparently escaped almost everybody’s attention until it happened . It was the same with the collapse of the Soviet Union . Mr George Soros ( he who took the Bank of England for a billion in a devaluation fracas with Prime Minister Major 12 years ago ) was recently heard to have remarked that our western ‘civilisation’ could be on the way out . If it does go well won’t the neo cons be delighted ? after all isn’t that what they purported to defend ?

    I’m a little more optimistic but not by much . If the USA can get to November without Bush or Cheney or their proxies ‘bombing ‘Iran in one last attempt at ‘gotcha’ diplomacy a new American administration may steer the west back towards safer waters .

    Northern Ireland and eirigi and indeed the Republic in all of this is of course a mere pinprick . Unless we/they/somebody discovers oil around our coast.

  • Dave

    “So let me get this right, Irish republicans, if that is there wish, should not set up a party with an Irish name, say éirígí, as it may offend northern Protestants, but it is OK for the same unionist protestants to have the word UNIONIST in all of their party names.

    Let me understand this correctly, republicans at all costs must hide their politics under a blanket, but Unionists have a god given right to flaunt their political belifes.

    What is next, a new law to ban the flying of the Irish flag, and you say you want a liberal democracy?” – Mick Hall

    Mick, the point is related to identifying a gap in the political market for a new party. If you can’t do that or if there isn’t such a gap, then why bother with a new party? It’s a one-way ticket to redundancy. If you look at the PDs as an example, you’ll see that they found a gap for a party that was to the right of the existing centrist parties. What they didn’t notice is that nationalism is an important component of that right-wing market. Why? Because people who are successful are pro-business (supporting the system they have prospered under) and that support translates as patriotism on the political spectrum. Nationalism isn’t a simple synonym for flag-waving: it means seeking to further the best interests of one’s nation. The PDs censored nationalism from their party because they wanted favourable press from the pro-British Independent News & Media Group (controlled by [Sir] Tony O’Reilly) and from the Irish Times, and they knew that a primary function of those propaganda vehicles is to promote the censorship of Irish nationalism by systematically undermining any party or individual who promotes it. That deliberate act of omission by the PDs relegated them to the dustbin of political history. A left-wing party that is also nationalist is a party that doesn’t understand that the disenfranchised make very poor patriots in real terms and never form the majority in prosperous societies. It’s a bust. But I take your point in relation to Northern Ireland: the reality is that a party must be overtly of either nationalism if it is to be viable. While a left-wing party that could appeal to members of either denomination is good in theory, it is unworkable in reality (look at the Alliance Party for a prime example of redundancy). Anyway, if meaning of éirígí’s name is an indication of its agenda, then it isn’t intended to have any appeal beyond a diehard Trotskyite rabble.

    By the way, I don’t support the censoring of any national flag or of any element that is an important part of another person’s culture. The mutual censorship agenda is one that is proffered by Sinn Fein and, if it is ever accepted as being a legitimate enterprise, will have the effect of cancelling out Irish nationalism. Oddly enough, Sinn Fein and [Sir] Tony O’Reilly have a shared agenda there.

  • Greenflag

    Garibaldi,

    Yes I’m aware of the flag wavers of NI of both political traditions however the point I was making that flag wavers on both sides have had to settle for a lot less than each would have wanted . Neither can win -however both can and probably will lose out in the longer term both to competition from within this island and without.

    ‘So whatever changes have happened in the economy at a structual level, there are still conflicting class interests within societies.’

    And there will be as long as human beings are human. It’s been wired into the nature of the species ever since homo sapiens progressed from hunting and gathering in groups of 30 to settling down in neolithic times and forming small tribes of several hundred people in which some of the people became priests , artists , craftsmen , etc and did not have to work the land directly to earn a crust so to speak . As societies became more complex and tribes became chieftainships and small kingdoms and nation states and empires the ‘class’ system became ever more variegated . Along the road we have amassed some hard won democratic rights which to judge by some of the electoral turnouts in western societies are no longer valued highly by people who once upon a time found them absolutely necessary to human dignity .

    I prefer to think we are in an age when neither the left nor the right can look into their political compendium of tricks and say they have found the Holy Grail . There is’nt and there never was any holy grail anyway .The best we can hope for is to muddle through and not to throw the baby out with the bathwater when either the reactionary brat or his extreme leftist cousin brat need changing and a wash 🙂

    ‘And workers continue to be exploited by their employers. That is the base of the capitalist system of production.’

    I’m reminded of the old Soviet joke re exploitation in the communist era Moscow.

    Question:

    ‘Comrade Ivanov is there anything worse than being exploited by your fellow man under capitalism ‘?

    Answer :

    ‘Yes Comrade Petrov’

    Question :

    ‘What then Comrade Ivanov ‘?

    Answer :

    ‘ Not being exploited by western capitalism ‘

  • Greenflag

    Dave ,

    The PDs censored nationalism from their party because they wanted favourable press from the pro-British Independent News & Media Group (controlled by [Sir] Tony O’Reilly) and from the Irish Times, and they knew that a primary function of those propaganda vehicles is to promote the censorship of Irish nationalism by systematically undermining any party or individual who promotes it. That deliberate act of omission by the PDs relegated them to the dustbin of political history.’

    Good point and sounds plausible . Hard to imagine that Tony O’Reilly was once approached by FF to stand for the party back in Jack Lynch’s day I believe. I don’t know how the new PD leader what’s his name will fare but they may be heading for extinction next time out . FF will gladly absorb any survivors .

  • BfB

    Mr. Flag

    Good to see you’re still getting paid by the word.
    I like the boat analogy. The big boat guys are giving little boats to the illegal aliens and charging the medium boats guys (who are the only ones who built their own boats). When they have their figurehead installed the shite will hit the fan big time. Can’t wait for Putin to get a hold of ’em…..

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  • wealth for some

    Last year, a Bank of Ireland report “Wealth of the Nation” stated that, when the value of residential assets is excluded, 1% of the population owns 34% of the wealth in the South. It didn’t say what that percentage of wealth would rise to if the figures were extended to encompass the top 10% of the population. Nevertheless, one can assume it would be fairly eye-opening. Far from being an equal society.

    I am not aware of any similar report for the North but perhaps some sluggerite could oblige.

  • Greenflag

    wealth for some ,

    ‘Far from being an equal society.’

    There is’nt any ‘equal’ society on the planet -never has been and never will be .

    Share 10 million out equally between 100 people Go back to the 100 ‘lucky’ ones and you’ll probably find that between 10 and 20 % will have increased their share significantly and the rest will have spent, drank , or lost their share or barely held onto it’s value through poor investments . It’s the human condition.

    Given that NI is substantially poorer as regards the size of it’s private sector there may be more wealth ‘equality . But then Most eastern european former communist countries were also very ‘equal’ -all equally poor.

  • Greenflag

    BfB ,

    Have you considered ‘mental telepathy’ in trying to communicate your thoughts ?. Next time try English and I’ll be able to reply .

    BTW – You can succeed by giving up .

  • Greenflag

    Post no 9 above should have read

    ‘Go back to the 100 ‘lucky’ ones AFTER 5 to 10 years.

  • Dave

    I’d be happy to share some of the wealth with the citizens of Northern Ireland if they promise to take the awful Mary McAleese back.

  • BfB

    Greenie….

    Giving up is an option only found in your arsenal..
    Besides I’m taking a speed reading course and your bloggy diarrhea is fantastic practice.
    Do keep up, will you. I hear keeping a diary helps.

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  • Greenflag

    Bfb,

    ‘Giving up is an option only found in your arsenal’

    Your friend Mr Bush never gives up as we can see form his latest ‘begging’ mission to his allies in Saudi Arabia . Even the Saudis appear to enjoy screwing the lame duck .

    “What they’re saying to us is … Saudi Arabia does not have customers that are making requests for oil that they are not able to satisfy,” Hadley told reporters.
    ( in other words piss off )

    The Saudi oil minister, Ali al-Naimi, said there was no need to increase production now. “Supply and demand are in balance today,” he told a news conference. “How much does Saudi Arabia need to do to satisfy people who are questioning our oil practices and policies?”

    ( in other words we have enough of your dollars and don’t need any more devaluation prone paper)

    He said the kingdom decided on May 10 to raise production by 300,000 barrels, at the request of customers, and that increase was sufficient.

    (best of luck in the upcoming election the American voters just love sending us Saudis more money than we can spend )

    When Bush met Abdullah in mid-January, the president also asked Saudi Arabia to raise production to ease high prices at the pump. But he got a chilly response to that plea. The kingdom said it would increase production only when the market justified it, and that production levels appeared normal.

    ( Listen here Dubya – no way means no in Arabic as well as in English – Did you enjoy your Israeli trip ? One billion Arabs were ecstatic about your demonstrated concern for the Palestinian people )

    Oil prices climbed to a new high Friday, above $127 a barrel. At the pump, gas prices rose to a national average of $3.78 per gallon,

    Meanwhile Republican Presidential candidate John McCain has now publicly reduced the Iraqi War from being a 100 year war to just another 5 years i.e until 2013 ? Mr McCain failed to mention how this war would be financed and whether or not the dollar would be worth anything in another 5 years 🙁

    How did America elect these arseholes 🙁

  • BfB

    Mr Flag

    Wah, wah, wah…..Bush is bad…..boo hoooo
    Bye bye America……
    We’ll see where your ass is in ten years…..
    We’ll see.
    I’m betting I’ll be better off than you….

    McCain sucks as bad as the lobotomy twins, so we adults are hunkering down for an interesting ride. The new regime will be out robbing banks to finance their pie in the sky shit….

    I haven’t your prescience, although I can claim to be right about most things in my adult life, and I think I’m good right where I stand. I hope you’re not conscription age……Eurostan might have things planned for your sorry arses….
    Very short battle I’m afraid. jihadist have real men on their side. You poofy bastards won’t make it out of the coffee shops, and if you do all you’ll have is witty comments and droneing opinions to throw at them….
    Take a look at the Daniel Pearl beheading a few times.. Those guys understand pacifists like you, eh?
    Bark a few times about the evil empire, they’ll embrace you and life will be good.
    Prat.
    America, protecting the whining shitbags of the world since 1776…

  • Greenflag

    ‘so we adults are hunkering down for an interesting ride.’

    Adults ?

    Cheney ? Rove ? Bush ? Bremner ? Rodriguez ? Lott ? Rumsfeld ?

    If that lot have been displaying adult powers of judgement then American educational standards are worse than we have been told 🙁

    So you already agree that the Republicans have made such a cock up of the economy , a mess of foreign policy, and a sewer heap of health care
    🙁

    Even a thicko like yourself can now see they have no chance of winning the November election.

    You may not have my prescience but you’ve got the message alright !

    And there’s the loyal faithful Saudis pissing on Uncle Sams shoes for all the world to see 🙁

    Gobshite 🙁

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  • CincinnatiDave

    Truly inspired outreach program to the Ulster-Scots here from éirígí.

    First we have the semi-retired Scottish piper leading things off & then the main man himself, a certain Rab Jackson (whose Scottish ancestors are no doubt just thrilled about…)

    Finally news just in, éirígí have welcomed the recent Scottish invasion of Manchester. In a statement their spokeman said “Not since the days of William Wallace has a force so grand, gone so far to inflict so great a price on the English foe. We salute the gallant Glaswegians.”

    Other reports of a Rab C. Nesbitt viewing party with free irn Bru at the Ard Fheis have proved to be spurious.

    Cheers
    David

  • BfB

    Flagster,

    I would turn Saudiland in a piece of glass.

    Cheney ? Rove ? Bush ? Rumsfeld ?

    Yes, real men. I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.

    The liberal, secular, democratic congress and their msm enablers have messed up the economy. Illegal, thieving, immigrants are destroying healthcare, will the gleeful support of the dems, Mcain, Bush, et al.
    The economy isn’t in as bad a shape as your minders have led you to believe.
    Yes, our public schools and colleges are brainwashing, indoctrination, ‘muticultural’ cesspools…

    As Daniel Pipes opined a few years ago…

    * Why do American academics so often despise their own country while finding excuses for repressive and dangerous regimes?
    * Why have university specialists proven so inept at understanding the great contemporary issues of war and peace, starting with Vietnam, then the Cold War, the Kuwait war and now the War on Terror?
    * Why do professors of linguistics, chemistry, American history, genetics and business present themselves in public as authorities on the Middle East?
    * What is the long-term effect of an extremist, intolerant and anti-American environment on university students?

    The time has come for adult supervision of the faculty and administrators at many American campuses. Especially as we are at war, the goal must be for universities to resume their civic responsibilities. ‘

    I’m still waaaayyyyyyyyyy better off, now, and in the future, than your sorry yurpean ass..
    imho, of course.
    🙂

  • BfB

    And there’s the loyal faithful Saudis pissing on Uncle Sams shoes for all the world to see 🙁

    Our man Mr. Bush said..

    “Our problem in America gets solved when we aggressively go for domestic exploration. Our problem in America gets solved if we expand our refining capacity, promote nuclear energy and continue our strategy for the advancing of alternative energies as well as conservation,” he said.

    “One interesting thing about American politics these days is those who are screaming the loudest for increased production from Saudi Arabia are the very same people who are fighting the fiercest against domestic exploration, against the development of nuclear power and against expanding refining capacity.”

    It’s not the Saudis, it’s the effin socialist, nanny state dems what’s the problem. We’ll see who get’s blamed when Mr. Bush is getting monster speaking tour money…and Obie wan house of cards is in charge…….I’m stocking the cellar for a long siege…

  • Greenflag

    BfB

    ‘I would turn Saudiland in a piece of glass.’

    Brilliant . So you can afford gas at 500 dollars a gallon . Wonderful . Keep your gate locked and make sure you are well armed and able to defend yourself against the 299 million Americans who will only be able to afford gas by stealing it from the tiny wealthy minority that can afford it !

    ‘Cheney ? Rove ? Bush ? Rumsfeld ?
    Yes, real men. I’m not surprised you can’t tell the difference.’

    Well they all have pricks but most people have something else inside their skulls .

    ‘The liberal, secular, democratic congress and their msm enablers have messed up the economy.’

    Let me see Pres Bush was elected in 2000 when gas was 28 dollars a barrel . The Republicans have been in control of Congress from 1994 to 2006 ? The reasons for the messing up of the American economy are quite simple . Unadulterated greed and irresponsible fiscal policies by the Bush adminstration including illegal war mongering.

  • Greenflag

    BfB,

    ‘It’s not the Saudis, it’s the effin socialist, nanny state dems what’s the problem.’

    Not according to former Marine & Republican Congressman Ji Webb .

    Before he became Virginia’s junior Senator, Jim Webb was a Marine, a Republican, Secretary of the Navy, and a best-selling author. He became a Democrat because of his disgust over the handling of Iraq. He ran on that issue, as well as the increasing economic disparity between the rich and the working class.

    Excerpt: ‘A Time to Fight: Reclaiming a Fair and Just America’
    by Jim Webb

    The take-it-all mentality of corporate America in these early years of the twenty-first century has come to resemble in many ways the uncaring rapacity of a corporate America that Teddy Roosevelt chose to confront a hundred years ago. But answers will be harder to find, because other conditions in the country today bear little resemblance to the America that Roosevelt was speaking to, and about, in 1903. The structure and especially the geographical diversity of today’s corporate America are decidedly different from a century ago.

    In the age of globalization, and because of other domestic factors now at play, the precepts that Roosevelt proposed can no longer be so easily applied. Why is this so? Because, quite simply, those sitting comfortably at the very top in today’s America know that we don’t all go up or down together anymore. Worker incomes in America have been disturbingly and demonstrably declining as a percentage of our national wealth.

    In August 2007, the Internal Revenue Service reported that average incomes in this country have been lower during every year of the Bush Administration than they were in the year before this presidency began, a phenomenon not seen in modern times till now. Once the Great Depression ended, and particularly in the years following World War II, America has always viewed itself as a land of rising incomes, rising hopes, and rising expectations.

    According to the New York Times, “Total income listed on tax returns grew every year after World Wa r II, with a single one-year exception, until 2001, making the five-year period of lower average incomes and four years of lower total incomes a new experience for the majority of Americans born since 1945.”

    The article went on to point out that “nearly half of Americans reported incomes of less than $30,000, and two-thirds make less than $50,000.”

    How does this affect us as a nation? Average incomes have been less for five years in a row. Nearly half of the country makes less than $30,000 a year, and two-thirds make less than $50,000 a year. But at the same time, the stock market has risen to historic highs, and when it comes to personal income at the very top rung of our society, there has indeed been a good bit of growth.

    According to that same New York Times article, growth in total incomes “was concentrated among those making more than $1 million … These individuals, who constitute less than a quarter of 1 percent of all taxpayers, reaped almost 47 percent of the total income gains in 2005.”

    Throughout our history, we have seen cycles where income inequalities have become severe. But over the past twenty-five years, our country has seen an enormous — and perhaps unprecedented — transfer of wealth to the very top of our society.

    The New York Times recently reported that “not since the Roaring Twenties have the rich been so much richer than everyone else. In 2005, the latest year for which figures are available, the top 1 percent of Americans—whose average income was $1.1 million a year — received 21.8 percent of the nation’s income, their largest share since 1929. Overall, the top 10 percent of Americans — those making more than about $100,000 a year — collected 48.5 percent, also a share last seen before the Great Depression.”

    more to follow 🙂

  • Greenflag

    The top 1 percent of our(USA) population also owns more than half of our stocks, making the stock market a poor indicator of the overall economic health of our society but a pretty good indicator of how the top 1 percent is doing. What has happened with these stocks? A lot of money is being made by those who are fortunate enough to own them. In 1957, the Dow Jones Industrial Average fluctuated between 450 and 500. By 1982, it was averaging around 900, and it finally broke 1,000 at the end of that year. But by 2007, it had skyrocketed to around 13,000.

    And to top it off, the “capital gains” tax rate for making money on stocks is only 15 percent—far lower than the tax rate for most wage earners, some of whom pay more than double that rate for income they have received through the sweat of their labor. This puts many of the wealthiest people in America in the enviable position of not even having to work to make money. In the America of today, it is entirely doable to find a good money manager, let him or her invest your money in exchange for a small percentage of the take, which itself is tax-deductible as a business fee, and then, as billionaire Warren Buffett is reputed to have said, end up paying a lower tax rate than your secretary.

    While the average compensation for American workers has actually declined, Reuters recently reported that in 2006 the number of U.S. households with a net worth of more than $5 million, excluding their primary residence, surged 23 percent to surpass one million for the first time. Only ten years ago, according to the Chicago-based Spectrem Group, there were just 250,000 U.S. households in this category. This means that while worker incomes have been declining, the number of “superrich” in America has quadrupled in ten years.

    As we can see from the above the USA’s economy has been ‘hijacked’ by the extreme right and through a bone headed war strategy the nutters on the right have stolen America from it’s people !
    They have handed over the USA to Asian and other countries Sovereign Wealth Funds and put the next generation of Americans into hock for their future !

    No wonder Americans will elect an African American or a woman President in November .

  • Greenflag

    BfB ‘

    I’d read Jim Webb’s book . You might learn a bit about your country and get to know the views of the man who might yet be your next Vice President 🙂